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Realistic Trade suggestions for improvement

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43 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

Where there's no smoke there's no fire.

 

Agreed. Seems to me like we've moved to the stage where the player likely wants out just hasn't formally requested it and the team, who doesn't want to trade him any under circumstances, is now under the gun to make one last plea to make it happen. Maybe they have an ace in their sleeve but I'm not seeing how the Sabres turn this around next year. 

 

They'll deny it publicly but I think most know where this is going. 

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1 hour ago, cross16 said:

 

Agreed. Seems to me like we've moved to the stage where the player likely wants out just hasn't formally requested it and the team, who doesn't want to trade him any under circumstances, is now under the gun to make one last plea to make it happen. Maybe they have an ace in their sleeve but I'm not seeing how the Sabres turn this around next year. 

 

They'll deny it publicly but I think most know where this is going. 

 

What would a Flames deal for Eichel look like?

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25 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

What would a Flames deal for Eichel look like?

 

I honestly don't even know where to start. There are rumors the new Sabres GM likes Monahan but 6 years of control versus 3 is a huge gap to bridge. If Gaudreau would resign there than I think that would carry some big weight but that's a variable I'm not sure of. There is also the issue that Eichel was just paid his bonus so he is staying for this year likely and it probably wont' be until next summer this happens if it ever does. Gaudreau with 1 year on his deal i can't imagine is very attractive to the Sabres. 

 

I think the Flames could have conversations but ultimately unless there is a player here that GM has a crush on, like Monahan, I think there are other teams that can put together much better packages. 

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5 hours ago, cross16 said:

Honestly the more I've thought about that deal the more I think it's a good deal for the Flames provided 2 things are true.

 

1 - The prospect is Morgan Frost. Frost is very good and normally is not a level of prospect you see teams willing to trade so acquiring him covers off many of the other questions/dislikes I would have with the trade. While I don't think he necessarily has the top 50-75 player upside that Gaudreau does, when you fact in that he could get close and do it at the center ice position he fits in the category of getting a piece that can be as good or better than Gaudreau down the road. 

2- Ward is not going to continue the conservative, dump and chase system and place a more aggressive transition based system. Ghost is a borderline elite puck moving dman who I think has struggled, based on what I read, with the coaching change in Philly to a more conservative system. However I also think his a bit underrated defensively, this also shows up in his analytics, so if you put him in the right system I think he can bounce back and if he does his contract is suddenly pretty good value. He is a LS but plays the right side and I could see him fitting in the Brodie role for the Flames which could put him in a real position to succeed. He also really helps on the PP where the Flames don't really have that PP QB, but again it all depends on how Ward wants to play. If the plan is to continue what we say in the playoffs than the Flames should avoid Ghost and i would agree that Gustafsson would be a more logical target. 

 

But if both of those things are true than I would actually argue this is a very good trade for the Flames as it strikes a really good balance between being good now but also getting a future core piece. They take on some money to do it yes, but the contract lengths also still align well with the what they have on he books so that risk is somewhat mitigated and if Ghost bounces back your actually likely laughing as your D is going to be super affordable for the next several years. 

Both Ghost and Voracek have had lots of their salary paid up front, the cap hit is still tough but the cash owing is not so bad. Voracek works out to about 5 mill/year and ghost is 1 mill. If you get a top prospect out of it and can make the cap work than its not so bad. Im not a fan of the trade but it the prospect we get is high value than it could work.

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10 minutes ago, cross16 said:

 

I honestly don't even know where to start. There are rumors the new Sabres GM likes Monahan but 6 years of control versus 3 is a huge gap to bridge. If Gaudreau would resign there than I think that would carry some big weight but that's a variable I'm not sure of. There is also the issue that Eichel was just paid his bonus so he is staying for this year likely and it probably wont' be until next summer this happens if it ever does. Gaudreau with 1 year on his deal i can't imagine is very attractive to the Sabres. 

 

I think the Flames could have conversations but ultimately unless there is a player here that GM has a crush on, like Monahan, I think there are other teams that can put together much better packages. 

Has there been a date when trade clauses kick in, is it the usual beginning of UFA period or have clauses been set back to July 1? 

 

Monahan's new clause could make it difficult to create a package around him.

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13 minutes ago, sak22 said:

Has there been a date when trade clauses kick in, is it the usual beginning of UFA period or have clauses been set back to July 1? 

 

Monahan's new clause could make it difficult to create a package around him.

 

My understanding is those are already in place as we are already in a new league year from an offseason perspective. 

 

I do know for sure that both Monahan and Gaudreau have been paid their bonuses. Both got 3.5 million this year so they cash owed to them for the rest of the year is reduced (albeit neither get a bonus for the balance of their contract), so wonder how that would fit into negotiations. 

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The big thing I took from the long tweet is that Eichel wants to win and the team is looking to make Eichel happy by helping him and the team win in Buffalo sooner rather than later.

 

Buffalo has only 4 F, 5 D and 1 G signed for next season with around 33 mil in cap space. Expect them to make a play for UFA goalie and high end talent. I could see them trying for Pietrangelo to fill out the D plus they could trade for an LHD.

 

 I think their 1st this year #8 overall for the right package. If it’s true that the Buffalo GM really likes Monahan, maybe build a multiplayer swap around him.

 

Something like

 

To BUF 

Monahan

Rights to Kylington 

Rights to Jankowski 

Pick/prospect

 

To CGY

2020 1st

Rights to Montour

Jokiharju

Rights to Reinhart 

 

May need to adjust slightly but there is a difference between signed players and rights. Monahan is the best / most established player with 3 more years on contract. Kylington provides a puck moving, good skating LD. Jankowski gives them a Good D centre with ability to improve with change of scenery. Pick helps offset the Total cost.

 

Reinhart and Montour cost less due to RFA but help Flames at RW and RD. Jokiharju is also RD. Flames get 1st for Monahan to keep Eichel happy.

 

Flames then have 

 

Gaudreau Lindholm Reinhart 

Tkachuk Backlund Mangiapane 

 

Giordano Montour 

Hanifin Andersson 

Valimaki Jokiharju 

 

Moving Gaudreau and signing Hall separately then becomes more open as could look for C or RW to push Lindholm or Reinhart to 2nd line.

 

Just spitballing ideas, but if Buffalo really wants Monahan and to keep Eichel happy, take advantage.

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50 minutes ago, cross16 said:

 

I honestly don't even know where to start. There are rumors the new Sabres GM likes Monahan but 6 years of control versus 3 is a huge gap to bridge. If Gaudreau would resign there than I think that would carry some big weight but that's a variable I'm not sure of. There is also the issue that Eichel was just paid his bonus so he is staying for this year likely and it probably wont' be until next summer this happens if it ever does. Gaudreau with 1 year on his deal i can't imagine is very attractive to the Sabres. 

 

I think the Flames could have conversations but ultimately unless there is a player here that GM has a crush on, like Monahan, I think there are other teams that can put together much better packages. 

 

I guess it depends if the Sabres have a mandate to win now or trade Eichel to rebuild again.  Monahan+... Going to be Valimaki+1st round pick at the very least.  And ya, not getting much contract length on Monahan so someone like Andersson is attractive due to 5-years signed.

 

I guess at the end of the day, there isn't a single player I wouldn't trade for Eichel, even Tkachuk or whoever.  

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22 minutes ago, bosn111 said:

.

 

Flames then have 

 

Gaudreau Lindholm Reinhart 

Tkachuk Backlund Mangiapane 

 

 

 

 

I get it's so easy to throw Lindholm to Center on paper but in reality, we won't win with him as #1 Center.  As a #2 Center behind a legit #1... Then maybe.  But to be the #1 Center when he's just average and way better on RW, it just doesn't make sense.  He hasn't played enough Center and from the times we've seen, he's not great defensively in that position.  Backlund is a better Center than Lindholm and I would argue Backlund would not be able to handle the role of #1 Center.  I would even say a team with Backlund as #1 Center is not a playoff team.  Certainly not a Cup contender.  

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34 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

I guess it depends if the Sabres have a mandate to win now or trade Eichel to rebuild again.  Monahan+... Going to be Valimaki+1st round pick at the very least.  And ya, not getting much contract length on Monahan so someone like Andersson is attractive due to 5-years signed.

 

I guess at the end of the day, there isn't a single player I wouldn't trade for Eichel, even Tkachuk or whoever.  

 

I don't disagree with this either, although gutting the team for 1 player wouldn't make sense but it also shouldn't have to, I'm just not sure the Flames have that player/piece that could trump all other offers. That's my hesitation, not so much what they would have to give out. 

 

Eichel is a rare player and IMO a top 10-15 player in the league at the most important position on the ice. If you have a chance to acquire that you have to look at all options. 

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I don’t want any part of that philly deal. Quality for quality, not quantity. That’s where we got in trouble with the Phaneuf trade. 
 

As for Eichel, the smoke and fire has been burning for a while. They’re just trying to control it. Adding someone like Phil Kessel for the 2 remaining years on his contract doesn’t sound like a “direction” or “plan” that Eichel would be satisfied with, yet, here’s Buffalo with 5 forwards signed for next season including Curtis Lazar... not exactly sure how they’re going to pry talent from other teams without any pieces to trade. It’ll be another Frankenstein patch job to ice a competitive squad next year for Buffalo unless they take on contracts other teams are trying to get out of. Like I said, send them 2 top line players for 1 and they’d be foolish not to consider it. Petro just won a cup, so if it’s money he’s after, Buffalo has it and they can easily pay him whatever he wants. But overpaying on players also reduces the cap they have left for the rest of the team. 

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2 hours ago, cross16 said:

 

I don't disagree with this either, although gutting the team for 1 player wouldn't make sense but it also shouldn't have to, I'm just not sure the Flames have that player/piece that could trump all other offers. That's my hesitation, not so much what they would have to give out. 

 

Eichel is a rare player and IMO a top 10-15 player in the league at the most important position on the ice. If you have a chance to acquire that you have to look at all options. 

 

If Eichel really asked for a trade, then it shouldn't have to gut our team.  We just have to be the highest bidder.  We've thrown around trade suggestions a month ago for fun but maybe it's time to look at it again.

 

IMO, we should try as hard as we can to NOT include Monahan in the deal.  An Eichel/Monahan 1/2 punch down the middle gives us the best chance for a Cup.  I would even offer Tkachuk before Monahan because we have LW replacements.  We don't have anything down the middle.  Backlund would be a superb 3rd line Center in that scenario (assuming we can keep him too).

 

I don't want to gut our team but every player is on the table though.  It's going to take 3 or 4 pieces in my opinion... And these pieces may include Dube or Valimaki or both.

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If Eichel does get traded it's not happening till next offseason, Buffalo has already paid his $7.5m bonus this season, so I doubt they are moving him now.

 

A trade from us probably is something like Tkachuk, Valimaki, Wolf and a 1st. If a team like the Rangers wants to beat that they can in a heartbeat.

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I still say Buffalo isn’t looking for futures or players to grow. If they’re trading Eichel they want to compete and have a chance for playoffs next season. It’s going to be more like Subban for Weber than NHL player + young player + prospect + pick 

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Voracek and Ghost make no sense to me. You're taking on 12.75 and you aren't getting total bang for your buck.

 

Even if you send off a Derek Ryan it doesn't make much sense. I assume Mangiapane signs for 3-3.5, that leaves you 8.5 to find a top 4 D and a goalie. Doesn't make much sense and I'm not a believer in Ghost to play top 4 minutes

 

 

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Mmm well if we are gonna keep Gio then I say double down on Brodie, he’s probably sign for 5.5-6m 

sign Cicei probably around 5-5.5 would do it 

 

and then for far less than AP you have a solid Core for at least 2-3 years depending on how long you sign Brodie for...Gio has 2 years remaing so Regardless of how long you sign Brodie for it’s a smart play...actually the ore I think about it 5+ years would be great for him then in 2 years we look to replace Gio 

 

So, all contingent on 1. Brodie signing and 2. Cicei signing, but the D core would be:
 

Gio/Brodie

Hanifin/Anderson

Valimaki/Cicei 

Killington

 

the other thing I’d look at is offer sheet Murray in Pits for 4.2 for 2 years, pits only has 6.somthing free so I really doubt they match and would therefore have to take the 2nd rounder as compensation...all be it this is contingent on 1. Murray accepting and 2. No other team trading a1st for him before or another team thinking of doing the same as this...but it’s doable and our G would be:

 

Murray 

Rittich 

 

As for our Forward lines, I’d try and move Ryan + Gaudreau to Buf for rights to Reingeart + maybe 8th RS/RD type or something like that if they have it? And then sign him for around 6 over 5 years or there about...And also sign Hall, this is the key and they need to sign Hall first then trade JG...Buf May go for this trade as it gives them a great LW to compliment Echile and a solid 3rd/4th C in Ryan.  Reup Jankowski for around 2m and Dube around 2.5...Again, all contingent on Hall signing but the lines would look Like:

 

Hall/Mony/lindholm or Reinheart

Tachuck/Backlund/Lindholm or Reinheart

Luch/Bennet/ Manji 

????/Janko/Dube

 

spare 1 ????

spare 2 ????

 

that leaves only a few small holes on the 4th line LW and a a few spares to sign and or move up?
 

in an ideal world it Seems like less is more in terms of moves a few FA signings, a trade as sign, and an OS and a few resigns of our own plus maybe one or two role player signings...

 

i haven’t done the exact math on this but I think it fits under the cap and may even leave a few million to spare? 

 
Again, all contingent on certain things falling into place, but this is just one way of looking at it with some samples of what and the type of guys I’d look at, but basically I think BT should be looking to Tinker not a full scale revamp 

 

 

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14 minutes ago, MP5029 said:

Mmm well if we are gonna keep Gio then I say double down on Brodie, he’s probably sign for 5.5-6m 

Since Brodie has come this far, he will explore the UFA market. I'd like him back, but I doubt that he is. He was very publicly almost traded last year and I wonder how he feels about that. He will likely get more than the Flames are willing to offer. Strong case to be made he's the 3rd best  UFA D, behind Pietro and Krug.

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2 hours ago, Thebrewcrew said:

Voracek and Ghost make no sense to me. You're taking on 12.75 and you aren't getting total bang for your buck.

 

Even if you send off a Derek Ryan it doesn't make much sense. I assume Mangiapane signs for 3-3.5, that leaves you 8.5 to find a top 4 D and a goalie. Doesn't make much sense and I'm not a believer in Ghost to play top 4 minutes

 

 

Yeah its a Satoshi Nakamoto trade. Vorcheck is a downgrade and you could sign hall for equal value far better player. Trevling with his Blockchaining reclamation projects Ghost is no better than Gustafson Resign him than at half the value. Johnny wants to go to Philly great let someome else take it up the arse. Ship his Hash Rate to the highest bidder, and be done with it. Unless Philly eats salary plus adds picks and a prospect, forget it. God makes me gag ever time our gm trys to play mother Thersa and recreate players carrers. If this trade goes down, he should be shown the door immediately 

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3 hours ago, lou44291 said:

I still say Buffalo isn’t looking for futures or players to grow. If they’re trading Eichel they want to compete and have a chance for playoffs next season. It’s going to be more like Subban for Weber than NHL player + young player + prospect + pick 

 

Eichel is near top 10 and trending into potentially top 5 soon.  Is there an equivalent out there also looking for a trade?  Maybe Barkov but Barkov has a NMC and Miami is a nicer place to live than Buffalo?  Winnipeg shopping Laine for a Center and talent wise might be the closest comparable.

 

Hearing maybe Columbus would move a D for a Center... maybe Werenski or Jones for Eichel?

 

We could start with Monahan and see where things go knowing he's not at the same level as the names mentioned above.  Tkachuk is also a good place to start too.  And, if the idea is to move Gaudreau to sign Hall then maybe combo Monahan + Gaudreau for Eichel (which is a bit of an overpayment).  That ultimately gives us Eichel + Hall which from an optics perspective is a fantastic move.

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1 hour ago, The_People1 said:

 

Eichel is near top 10 and trending into potentially top 5 soon.  Is there an equivalent out there also looking for a trade?  Maybe Barkov but Barkov has a NMC and Miami is a nicer place to live than Buffalo?  Winnipeg shopping Laine for a Center and talent wise might be the closest comparable.

 

Hearing maybe Columbus would move a D for a Center... maybe Werenski or Jones for Eichel?

 

We could start with Monahan and see where things go knowing he's not at the same level as the names mentioned above.  Tkachuk is also a good place to start too.  And, if the idea is to move Gaudreau to sign Hall then maybe combo Monahan + Gaudreau for Eichel (which is a bit of an overpayment).  That ultimately gives us Eichel + Hall which from an optics perspective is a fantastic move.

 

If you are going after Eichel, you would be better off trading Monahan + Hanifin for him.

The salary is similar.

Gaudreau with Eichel would be other-worldly.

No need to make too many other moves.

Maybe Ryan for a depth player or 3rd pairing RD.

 

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14 hours ago, cross16 said:

 

I honestly don't even know where to start. There are rumors the new Sabres GM likes Monahan but 6 years of control versus 3 is a huge gap to bridge. If Gaudreau would resign there than I think that would carry some big weight but that's a variable I'm not sure of. There is also the issue that Eichel was just paid his bonus so he is staying for this year likely and it probably wont' be until next summer this happens if it ever does. Gaudreau with 1 year on his deal i can't imagine is very attractive to the Sabres. 

 

I think the Flames could have conversations but ultimately unless there is a player here that GM has a crush on, like Monahan, I think there are other teams that can put together much better packages. 

i'd do monahan and last years first round and this year;s first round fir Eichel.. then sign hall and trade JH for a right winger

 

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12 hours ago, lou44291 said:

I still say Buffalo isn’t looking for futures or players to grow. If they’re trading Eichel they want to compete and have a chance for playoffs next season. It’s going to be more like Subban for Weber than NHL player + young player + prospect + pick 

Since we're all back on the Eichel topic........

 

Johnny and Mony

for

Eichel and Risto

 

Salaries line up but Buffalo gets rid of the off ice distractions and an underachieving d-man.

You can then replace Brodie with a 3rd pair RD, and a 1 or 2  line RW and #2LW. (Chucky goes to #1), Ryan for picks.

 

Chucky/Eichel/ Lindy or ??

Mangi or ??/Backs/Lindy or ??

Looch/Benny/Dube

Reider+ a couple from the farm.

 

Gio/Andersson

Hanifin/Risto

Valimaki/ ?? (Yelesin)

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If I am Trevling I am looking to take advantage of Buffalo.  There are two options to do this IMO.

 

1) Buffalo is willing to trade Eichel

    - If Buffalo wants to stay competitive 

      - Then we offer Monahan, Hanifin, Dube

      - I don't think many teams can offer a package of players that can keep Buffalo competitive and have value.

    -  If Buffalo wants futures

     - Then we offer Monahan, Valimaki, and our first(19 overall)

     - Again I think this is fair value, and I wouldn't mind parting with this for a player like Eichel in return.

 

Gaudreau Eichel Lindholm

Tkachuk Backlund Mangiapane

Lucic Bennett Dube/Philips

Gawdin Ryan Reider

 

Gio Brodie

Hanifin/Valimaki Andersson

Makay Yelesin

   

2) Buffalo wants to win now

  - We offer them Gaudreau for Cozens and 8th 

    - We then sign Hall

 

Hall Monahan Lindholm

Tkachuk Backlund Mangiapane

Bennett Cozens Dube

Gawdin Ryan Lucic

 

Gio Brodie

Hanifin Andersson

Valimaki Yelesin

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If Eichel is traded it will be for Prospects and Picks.

Eichel wants to win and Sabres are trying to accommodate him by upgrading the team to keep Eichel in Buffalo. 

So it makes no sense Buffalo trading him to upgrade their team. No they will take the 3 firsts and prospects.

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The Flames and Sabres timelines just don't quite align for an Eichel trade.

 

The Flames would want to do it today. Once October 9 hits and the league calendar rolls over, Monahan gets his M-NTC, Buffalo is surely on that list. 

 

The Sabres don't want to trade Eichel this year. They paid him the big bonus and to be honest, the league is so volatile that you never know who will make the playoffs. NJ and COL made it in 2018 a year after they really struggled. 

 

Next offseason, when it's more likely Eichel could request a trade, it's hard to see the Flames being able to make it work. I'm assuming in this case they are wanting to build around Lindholm and Tkachuk, at that point, Gaudreau has 1yr left and Monahan has 2. That's not getting you Eichel. 

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