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Wideman Suspended

668 posts in this topic

You can disagree. But you have no idea what Wideman intended anymore then I do. What you are describing is a scenario that could have happened. Another scenario is that he skated with his head up and shoved someone in frustration.

Who knows what's true. But what we do know is Wideman shoved an official and sent him to the hospital. The league has to react to that.

I do respectfully disagree. As someone with first hand experience at what it's like to take a powerful blow to the head, I know what I'm looking at. I have no idea what he intentions were, true, but I can watch his body language. I based my interpretation on these facts.

 

While that specific rule does not apply to if he had hit a Pred, I would still say he is worthy of getting a suspension. Official or not he did something very dangerous and while it may not have been intentional it was a dangerous play that warrants a suspension. Maybe not 10 games (and according to Friedman that rule 40 doesn't apply anyway) but he will get a multiple game suspension and should iMO.

This I can agree with. I think it was a reactionary, someone's about to take me out again, defensive reflex. That said, with the high sticking penalties, the commentators are always saying the player is responsible for where he puts his stick. Accidental high stick, even while falling from the hit is a penalty, so I could see punishment for that. I'm also ok with that. I expected him to get some sort of suspension. No skin off my nose.

 

To funny how Bios can you guys be if it was a player from another team like say Kassin you would surly agree it was purposely to say it was unintentional is Ludacris his stick was up and he cross checked him right in the head area. Weather he thought it was a Nash doesn't matter it was totally intentional he lie all he wants it will not fly.  

The spelling is bias and the correct grammar here is biased.

Also, that is a pretty offensive assumption. If all the facts of this case stay the same except for the player or team involved, I would not change my opinion at all. I'm not a Wideman fan. What I see is how I judge. Saddledown fans boo an obvious penalty. At home, I'm not upset. Even if it's my team or a favorite player, a penalty is a penalty. That's how I am. That holds true here.

 

With that I've said my piece and I'm not coming back to this thread. This has turned into a toxic thread and I'm staying away.

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The unfortunate thing for the Flames is that is a black mark against the team.  Whether Wideman is suspended, fined or excused, the other hockey fans in the world will have their own opinion.  Social media, MSM, bloggers, and the like have turned this into a ratings booster.  ESPN went off about it calling the player garbage.  ESPN knows about as much about hockey as a caveman.  

 

Everyone is an expert on what Wideman was doing, what he thought, and what his intent was.  I actually just want to move on from this and get back to Flames hockey, Johnny Hockey, TDL, Making the playoffs, seeing a 19 year old Bennett score 20 goals, seeing some of the kids get a chance to play, and normality.  I'm so fed up with reading articles where the posters are Oiler trolls with nothing better to do than try to start arguments, or trash Flames hockey.

 

This is Bettman's NHL, so I don't think the decision will be doing the right thing, it will be doing the PC thing.  

 

The smartest thing would be for them to rule it incidental contact, and fine Wideman for being reckless leaving the ice surface.  They can spin it such that it was a missed injury and should have been treated by the trainers as such.  That way everyone can get back to playing hockey.  It doesn't become a precedent and their is no ensuing grievance by the NHLPA.  Everybody moves on.   

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Im not sure why everyone keeps calling it a crosscheck. It might be semantics but its not a crosscheck in any way, raising your arms in the air is not a crosscheck..I think wideman will get punishment because of the face that it looks like he was annoyed after the hit and someone was in his way when he was going to bench didnt matter who it was. But at the same time I dont think it was any different then the weber hit linked earlier in this thread, did he get punished for that? 

 

Also this whole he didnt look remorseful on the bench is ridiculous, should he be crying on the bench? or sitting there looking worried when the official continued officiating in the game? I dont like wideman as a player, but this whole thing is getting ridiculous. Its wonderful this can be made a big deal but the hits to the head, crosschecks etc that lead to injuries no one cares about.

It did lead to an injury.  The linesman spent the night in hospital.

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True or false? The official went to the hospital following the incident.

Agreed. I hate it when fans make excuses for their own players. This thread reads like a Burrows thread on a Vancouver message board. He cross checked an official. The rest is semantics. He should be held accountable.

You aren't even worth answering.

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You aren't even worth answering.

Then why did you?

 

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Like someone said earlier, this is a very polarizing topic.  Given the only camera angle of the actual incident, nobody knows what was going on (where his eyes were looking, how glazed his eyes/expression were, etc) except Wideman himself (I doubt the NHL calls in "witnesses" to incidents like this).  Unless anyone is an expert in this field, everything said here (and elsewhere) is pure speculation.

 

  • Should the hit Wideman took in the corner have been a penalty before "the incident"? Sure
  • Could calling that penalty have prevented "the incident"? Probably
  • Do obvious penalties get missed during the course of a game?  Absolutely
  • Should previous "incidents" with other players have been punishable?  Maybe, but see the question above

 

I agree with Kehatch that we (Flames fans) need to take our "homer glasses" off on this one.  Like it or not, intentionally or not, Wideman screwed up.  Beyond this, nobody here knows for certain what happened (No.  You don't.).  The NHL review board is not a court of law, so they will make mistakes (in some peoples' eyes).  And yes they have a decent track record of "making examples" out of people, and will probably do so in this case.  As Flames fans, we will just have to bite the bullet on whatever the outcome is.  As hockey fans, I'm sure everyone can agree that this is something that needs to be addressed, REGARDLESS of who the player at fault is.

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The hospital was for precautionary purpose, quit making it sound like a major incident. Wideman was clearly dazed skating to the bench, he was even startled the official was in his line, tried to avoid him and couldn't. These are there actions of a person dazed just trying to get off the ice.

 

He was taken to the hopsital becuase he collapsed in the officials room after the game. Don't make it seem like he was fine and they just took him there to monitor him, he is quite injuried so let's not act like this was a little bump and he's going to be fine either. 

 

I have friends who know that linesman and I can tell you from talking to them there is alot of concern over his health. 

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No homer glasses on here. Whether there was a penalty for boarding missed or not. Regardless of whether the hit on the official was intentional or not. Whether Wideman was glazed over and groggy or not. IT DOES NOT MATTER...the bottom line is no player is allowed to hit an official. He will and should be suspended as per the rules.

The problem I have is what happens following the incident. The lack of concussion protocol taken for the player AND the official was atrocious! Flames staff and NHL refereeing staff should be held accountable for not acting in the best interest of both parties. Both had trouble collecting themselves. Both should have been removed from the game and placed in the black room. End of story.

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Then why did you?

 

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Like someone said earlier, this is a very polarizing topic.  Given the only camera angle of the actual incident, nobody knows what was going on (where his eyes were looking, how glazed his eyes/expression were, etc) except Wideman himself (I doubt the NHL calls in "witnesses" to incidents like this).  Unless anyone is an expert in this field, everything said here (and elsewhere) is pure speculation.

 

  • Should the hit Wideman took in the corner have been a penalty before "the incident"? Sure
  • Could calling that penalty have prevented "the incident"? Probably
  • Do obvious penalties get missed during the course of a game?  Absolutely
  • Should previous "incidents" with other players have been punishable?  Maybe, but see the question above

 

I agree with Kehatch that we (Flames fans) need to take our "homer glasses" off on this one.  Like it or not, intentionally or not, Wideman screwed up.  Beyond this, nobody here knows for certain what happened (No.  You don't.).  The NHL review board is not a court of law, so they will make mistakes (in some peoples' eyes).  And yes they have a decent track record of "making examples" out of people, and will probably do so in this case.  As Flames fans, we will just have to bite the bullet on whatever the outcome is.  As hockey fans, I'm sure everyone can agree that this is something that needs to be addressed, REGARDLESS of who the player at fault is.

You are correct and I think Wideman has stated his case as it happened, where it goes from here who knows. As far as "homer glasses" I go by what I see and having been involved with a number of contact sports throughout my life I have seen players in dazed states and believe me odd things happen. Such is the case here. This is quite rare for Wideman as it would be the hardest hit he has thrown all year. LOL

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I really could care less if Wideman is suspended, I have been calling for him to sit in the press box anyways.

The optics on this whole thing, looks terrible. Wideman will get 10 or more games just based on how the play looks.

If he was dazed or concussed then he shouldn't have played the rest of the game, so that argument goes out the window. Someone kn the Flames staff should have pulled Wideman off the bench and into the quiet room, then he would have that argument to go with. That it was handled took away that argument.

The worst part of all this is that he takes up a roster spot. I am guessing once the dust settles on this that we will see Granlund (if he is still waiver exempt) sent down and a defenseman recalled. Running with just 6 defenseman on your roster is a bad idea.

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I really could care less if Wideman is suspended, I have been calling for him to sit in the press box anyways.

The optics on this whole thing, looks terrible. Wideman will get 10 or more games just based on how the play looks.

If he was dazed or concussed then he shouldn't have played the rest of the game, so that argument goes out the window. Someone kn the Flames staff should have pulled Wideman off the bench and into the quiet room, then he would have that argument to go with. That it was handled took away that argument.

The worst part of all this is that he takes up a roster spot. I am guessing once the dust settles on this that we will see Granlund (if he is still waiver exempt) sent down and a defenseman recalled. Running with just 6 defenseman on your roster is a bad idea.

 

The roster impact is a huge issue for a team trying to make the playoffs.  Wideman has played like crap at times, but is still better than Smid.  Imagine a 3rd pair of Smid/Engelland, and you will see Russell playing 25+ minutes every game.  

 

Assuming there is a suspension for the moment, starting on February 3rd.  Ferland is back, so someone has to be sent down.  If you want a defenseman brought up, you need to send another player down.  The only positive in my books is that Raymond and Bollig are waived and sent down for the duration of any suspension.  That way you at least have a spare defenseman and a utility player (Granlund) available to play.  Jooris seems to be the odd man out most nights anyway.  You can get Nakladal some reps on the big club, although BH doesn't seem to trust him yet.

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Don Henderson should just fight Wideman next game. 

 

Settle it the old fashion way.

 

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At center ice on the All-Star weekend...

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My take...
It was an accident.

 

Watching the video, to me its clear that at the last second he sees the Nashville player coming up the ice and he has enough wits about him that he knows he can't engage him and needs to get out of the way.
Only one place to go and he rolls over the official.
He's hurting, needs to get to the bench and collisions with the ref happen all the time... so he simply didn't give a F*** it happened in that moment.

 

The only problem i can strum up for it was he showed no concern for the ref... but even that is tough to pin on him since he was ailing and trying brush off his own pain.

 

I think optics and all things considered, he should get the minimum for the fact it was such a severe collision. 

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Don Henderson should just fight Wideman next game. 

 

Settle it the old fashion way.

 

be20a3ea4e1bba9f0e1d6533a21d2937.gif

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IMO, Wideman got hit, was dazed, lost his cool on the way back to the bench and hit the first thing he saw.  10 games easy for such a stupid move.

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We all know what Wideman did was stupid...   There is no doubt he was rattled after the hit he took, but you just do not crosscheck a ref...   Dazed or not, maybe the striped shirt should have been a clue it was not one of the Preds...

 

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Somethin I JUST noticed, look at Widemans FEET just before the collision, to me it explains a lot.

 

Just before impact his feet do a stopping/trying to get out of the way motion, while at the same time putting his hands up to brace for impact, this to me explains that this is NOT an intentional hit, if it was intentional he would not have made a motion with his feet to stop/get out of the way.

 

Also, after rewatching, the optics are made much worse by the fact that Henderson is skating backwards and Wideman is skating forwards, this exacerbates the impact of the hit.

 

I have gone back and forth on this, and I after noticing these things I attribute the hit down to Wideman being woozy, have tunnel vision getting back to the bench and not noticing Henderson until the last second.

 

Wideman has a clean record and no prior incidents with officials, I vote NO SUSPENSION!!

 

I do hope Henderson is ok :(

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Pretty hard to hard to say he deliberately hit an official.  He hit an official, but you can't say 100% he knew he was hitting an official.  The rules says "deliberately applies physical force in any manner to an official".  The deliberate part is the hard part to argue.

 

This one caught my eye.  Accidental or not?

 

Same Linesman....

 

Think about that a second and wonder why he had to place himself right in front of the players line in the vid above?

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Same Linesman....

 

Think about that a second and wonder why he had to place himself right in front of the players line in the vid above?

I thought about that too when I saw the video...

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Here are some other opinions on the wedes incident  check it out might see it from more than a flames fan point of view http://www.flamesfrom80feet.ca/ seems most here has an excuse for his play after the hit I see a very peed of person because there was no call on his hit now that's what I think so IMO it was a poor play on wedes part. Watch the video makes some sense. 

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One can only infer intent so far by looking at the video. Only Wideman really knows what was going through his head when this happened. Regardless, the NHL has to suspend him so that there is not an outbreak of players hitting referees accidentally on purpose. In the end, the referee really needs to take the most responsibility here. Had the official just stayed in the Flames defensive zone, there is absolutely no way that Wideman would have hit him.  

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My opinion: 

 

Wideman did not INTEND to hit the linesman. 

Evidence:

 

Right before the collision you see him attempt to stop with his skates

He bring his stick up almost vertically, not crosswise; a crosscheck with intent will usually be horizontal, braces are usually vertical

He was making towards the bench door the entire time and didn't change his path, to have moved at all to avoid it would have put him back into the play

He apologized to him at the soonest possible opportunity

 

However, Wideman DID hit a linesman. Accident or not, that requires a suspension. I'd say the 10-15 game range. (were it intentional I'd say 20+) That needs to be discouraged, and as much as I like Wideman as a person and highly doubt it was intentional, it still must be dealt with, as much as it stinks. 

 

 

The good news is we may see a D prospect called up to get some reps. The bad news is this will make Wideman untradeable this year which many of us hoped for. 

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Come on Kipper 14 you can't really believe that? This is a pro not a kid he could have just skated around him he stopped but he did a pushing motion not a blocking motion. Hey I'm a flames fan through and through but I'm not going to defend a goon move I don't care who he plays for nor should any one else on here.

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My opinion: 

 

Wideman did not INTEND to hit the linesman. 

Evidence:

 

Right before the collision you see him attempt to stop with his skates

He bring his stick up almost vertically, not crosswise; a crosscheck with intent will usually be horizontal, braces are usually vertical

He was making towards the bench door the entire time and didn't change his path, to have moved at all to avoid it would have put him back into the play

 

This is the point I was trying to point out with the crosscheck that all the media is pointing out. A crosscheck is a forceful hit with the stick where your arms extend with the stick horizontally, its not considered a crosscheck to raise your hands. Although according to wikipedia raising your arms with your stick in both hands is considered a crosscheck as one poster pointed out, so who knows maybe im wrong. 

 

I think wideman will be punished, he had a hot head moment but the media making it out like he went after the official and crosschecked him as well is just ludicrous. 

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Exactly.

 

It is by technical definition a crosscheck as soon as he raised his hands, so technically it is the right word. But the key is technically.

 

However, in reality players will always crosscheck horzontally because its more effective at off-balancing the opponent without off-balancing yourself, and concentrates the impact force in a smaller area. If there was time for intent that's what would happen. Raising both arms like that is more of a defensive reaction much like when players go into the boards. 

 

Was it a mistake? Yes. Should he be punished? Unquestionably. But its a heat of the moment reaction to "oh elbowing someone's in my way", not "let me hit this guy". And that should be a slightly mitigating factor. But only slightly. I expect a suspension at least until TDL, and that's how it should be. 

 

It sucks that its Wideman, rather than someone like Avery or an equivalent pain-in-the-checking from behind, but it is. But its unfair to ascribe motivations that aren't supported by evidence. 

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People can call me a homer all they want to. I don't really care. I think Wideman was gaga after being hit. When he skated to the bench, it looks to me like he had not decided which direction to take. That is, it looks like he was going to go left around the referee and then ended up going right. This indecisiveness caused by being dizzy resulted in him raising his arms and hitting the ref in the head. As I said above, I don't know this, I am just speculating. I recall how Boogaard was knocked hard during a fight and skated to the wrong penalty box because he was not thinking straight. The ref had to convince him to move to the other box. 

 

As I said above, he has to be suspended because failure to do so would likely set a bad precedent. Given his clean record, his outright refusal to hit opposition players during the game, and the fact that he was just hit hard from behind, I am not convinced that he formed intent and that malice was involved here. Maybe I am reading this wrong and he should be Sparta kicked by the NHL. I have defended players on other teams for poor behaviour when I believed incidents were improperly interpreted.

 

ETA: Do I think he should be suspended? I think he must be suspended. I am just not convinced he had a guilty mind when this happened.

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