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Calgary Flames Drafting and Development: Your Analysis

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1989, CGY picks Manderville #24, DET picks Lidstrom at #53.

1994, CGY picks Dingman #19, DET picks Holmstrom at #257.

1998, CGY picks Fata #6, DET picks Datsyuk at #171.

1999, CGY picks Saprykin #11, DET picks Zetterberg at #210.

I stopped looking after this. :(

Lol! Good Lord that is some sorry a$$ drafting by the Flames. What were our scouts looking for back then? Crazy to see Detroit draft so many Hall of Famers outside the 2nd rounds. It's just much cheaper to draft effectively, Flames wasted some great draft years on terrible picks back then. It hurts the eyes looking at that!

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1989, CGY picks Manderville #24, DET picks Lidstrom at #53.

1994, CGY picks Dingman #19, DET picks Holmstrom at #257.

1998, CGY picks Fata #6, DET picks Datsyuk at #171.

1999, CGY picks Saprykin #11, DET picks Zetterberg at #210.

 

I stopped looking after this.  :(

The biggest reason is that Detroit has had a superb set of European scouts for a long time, well before many other teams clued in to or accepted that Europeans could actually play the North American (Canadian) game.  As you will notice from your list, two are Swedes and two are Russian.  Even now Calgary seems to be reluctant to emphasis Europeans, and still are loathe to draft Russians, even though their skill level is often way above Canadians, on average.

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1989, CGY picks Manderville #24, DET picks Lidstrom at #53.

1994, CGY picks Dingman #19, DET picks Holmstrom at #257.

1998, CGY picks Fata #6, DET picks Datsyuk at #171.

1999, CGY picks Saprykin #11, DET picks Zetterberg at #210.

 

I stopped looking after this.  :(

No kidding, I was going ouch, ouch, ouch and ouch all the way through. LOL

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The biggest reason is that Detroit has had a superb set of European scouts for a long time, well before many other teams clued in to or accepted that Europeans could actually play the North American (Canadian) game.  As you will notice from your list, two are Swedes and two are Russian.  Even now Calgary seems to be reluctant to emphasis Europeans, and still are loathe to draft Russians, even though their skill level is often way above Canadians, on average.

I wouldnt agree with your statement of this. If you watch the world juniors and if you look at the NHL the number of "skilled" players is not that different. Comparison one stamkos to ovechkin, yes ovechkin has scored more then stamkos but I could go down the list and find similar canadians for every russian. That way of thinking might have been the way of thinking 30 years ago, but the gap between the two is non existent now. I would say the problem was always that everyone viewed europeans as lazy players who couldnt play a tough game. Although on that note you can find canadian players who are lazy and dont play a tough game.

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Detroit won't even be Detroit in a few years. As the drafting gets better finding gems in the late rounds is getting much tougher. It happens. But it's tough to build an entire team that way.

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Detroit won't even be Detroit in a few years. As the drafting gets better finding gems in the late rounds is getting much tougher. It happens. But it's tough to build an entire team that way.

 

Logic would suggest, yeah.  You would think.

 

And, their 2011 and 2012 draft years were very average.

 

But in 2013....they killed it.  Again.   McNulty, Bertuzzi, both look like prospective NHLers now.   Mattias Janmark IS an NHLer, and having a great rookie season. (not sure I woulda made that trade, though)

 

 

I think it remains to be seen if the law of averages has finally caught up with them, or if 2011/2012 were just off-years for them.

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........

 

 

I think it remains to be seen if the law of averages has finally caught up with them, or if 2011/2012 were just off-years for them.

I don't think this is right way to say this. If your scouting is superior to most in the league then you should have consistently better results.

 

It is not like odds(laws of averages) on dice rolls. Detroit would be more like they have weighted dice.

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Detroit won't even be Detroit in a few years. As the drafting gets better finding gems in the late rounds is getting much tougher. It happens. But it's tough to build an entire team that way.

Their aging core has served them well, in all the areas required. skill, production, talent and leadership by example. They have created a stable environment and expectation for winning, something our rebuild should be trying to establish.

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I wouldnt agree with your statement of this. If you watch the world juniors and if you look at the NHL the number of "skilled" players is not that different. Comparison one stamkos to ovechkin, yes ovechkin has scored more then stamkos but I could go down the list and find similar canadians for every russian. That way of thinking might have been the way of thinking 30 years ago, but the gap between the two is non existent now. I would say the problem was always that everyone viewed europeans as lazy players who couldnt play a tough game. Although on that note you can find canadian players who are lazy and dont play a tough game.

I don't disagree that there are many skilled Canadians.  I would say, though, that perhaps certain skillsets that many think of as "skill" e.g. puck handling, passing are more emphasized in Europe vs things like checking in the Canadian system.  Even if we accepted the two countries are even in skill, I think there is a huge disparity in NHL-Canadians versus NHL-Russians, which means the ability to find great Russians in a group not as picked-over as Canadians would be way higher, and teams doing so are going to be much further ahead (i.e. Detroit).

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I wouldnt agree with your statement of this. If you watch the world juniors and if you look at the NHL the number of "skilled" players is not that different. Comparison one stamkos to ovechkin, yes ovechkin has scored more then stamkos but I could go down the list and find similar canadians for every russian. That way of thinking might have been the way of thinking 30 years ago, but the gap between the two is non existent now. I would say the problem was always that everyone viewed europeans as lazy players who couldnt play a tough game. Although on that note you can find canadian players who are lazy and dont play a tough game.

 

It's all perception.

 

Europeans play on a larger ice surface so body contact is less frequent.  There's more emphasis on speed and skill over size and toughness.  Yet, after they are drafted and come over to North America, their game doesn't always translate well over here.  It's a slight gamble drafting Euro's for this reason.

 

I'll also add that in countries like Russia, Sweden, Czech, and even Finland, soccer is the #1 sport.  This means the best athletes from their country play soccer.  Only those who don't make it in soccer play hockey instead so you're not always going to get that country's best athletes if that makes any sense.  Same can be said about US players.  Baseball, Football, Basketball, and Olympic teams soak up their country's most talented athletes.  If only every 6'-3" 230 lb linebacker from US College decided to play hockey instead, man...

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Now that we have Shinkaruk in the fold it will be really interesting to see if this puts more pressure on Poirier? I'm sure internally there will be some healthy competition between the two. I haven't been the biggest fan of the development down in Stockton this year, really hope we don't see Shinkaruk take a step back under the Flames watch

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Now that we have Shinkaruk in the fold it will be really interesting to see if this puts more pressure on Poirier? I'm sure internally there will be some healthy competition between the two. I haven't been the biggest fan of the development down in Stockton this year, really hope we don't see Shinkaruk take a step back under the Flames watch

Surely it will be interesting between the two, as well as a few others.  If BT does indeed pull off multiple moves in the coming days that will open up spots, most likely, and provide a clear shot to the big team in the immediate future.

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Now that we have Shinkaruk in the fold it will be really interesting to see if this puts more pressure on Poirier? I'm sure internally there will be some healthy competition between the two. I haven't been the biggest fan of the development down in Stockton this year, really hope we don't see Shinkaruk take a step back under the Flames watch

Shrink-wrap is a LW and Poirier is RW.  I think Shink and Poirier are on the same line, though.  Last night Agostino, Hamilton and Hathaway were the scoring line, with Shink being a -2 with no points.  Agostino had 2 assists and the only shootout goal.

 

I think that Agostino is a first callup option for BT right now.  Shrink-wrap will have to show what he has next season in camp and on the farm.

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Now that we have Shinkaruk in the fold it will be really interesting to see if this puts more pressure on Poirier? I'm sure internally there will be some healthy competition between the two. I haven't been the biggest fan of the development down in Stockton this year, really hope we don't see Shinkaruk take a step back under the Flames watch

Time will tell and he is now where he wants to play so it is all up to him. You have to really want it and your play has to show it.

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Now that we have Shinkaruk in the fold it will be really interesting to see if this puts more pressure on Poirier? I'm sure internally there will be some healthy competition between the two. I haven't been the biggest fan of the development down in Stockton this year, really hope we don't see Shinkaruk take a step back under the Flames watch

Well Poirier has normally played RW(his off wing) and Shirk is a LW. So the competing with each other is not a true fighting for 1 spot style competition but there was the big discussion on who we should have drafted in that spot so yes that alone would be a form of competition.

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Well Poirier has normally played RW(his off wing) and Shirk is a LW. So the competing with each other is not a true fighting for 1 spot style competition but there was the big discussion on who we should have drafted in that spot so yes that alone would be a form of competition.

Yeah I was referring to their draft position more so then where they're slotted positionaly on lines. Shinkaruk will surely be trying to make the Flames regret not drafting him at Poiriers spot and Poirier will have a chip on his shoulder to prove the Flames made the right choice in taking him over Shink. It's healthy competition, just hoping it helps drive both these prospects to produce. It would be great if they both played on the same line and found some chemistry

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The Pens just signed Olli Maata to a 6 yr - $25 mil extension. Not a bad AAV at just over $4mill. Janko vs Olli Maata...We still haven't seen what Janko can do but I'd rather have drafted Maata. He's already grown into a to #1-2 D man, whereas we can only hope Janko will be NHL ready someday. One of Feaster and co. biggest fails IMO

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The Pens just signed Olli Maata to a 6 yr - $25 mil extension. Not a bad AAV at just over $4mill. Janko vs Olli Maata...We still haven't seen what Janko can do but I'd rather have drafted Maata. He's already grown into a to #1-2 D man, whereas we can only hope Janko will be NHL ready someday. One of Feaster and co. biggest fails IMO

I would have rather stayed in our original spot (instead of trading down)and taken Andrei Vasilevskiy. Janko is NHL ready in many ways IMO he may need a season or 2 in the A to get used to the speed difference from college but I think he will be a very good NHL player, maybe not as good as Maata but you never know until you see him in the pro game.

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The Pens just signed Olli Maata to a 6 yr - $25 mil extension. Not a bad AAV at just over $4mill. Janko vs Olli Maata...We still haven't seen what Janko can do but I'd rather have drafted Maata. He's already grown into a to #1-2 D man, whereas we can only hope Janko will be NHL ready someday. One of Feaster and co. biggest fails IMO

Let's hope he is not a fail, we have waited a long time for Jankowski. You never know how good a prospect is coming in, I thought Gaudreau may have done a year in AAA but was dead wrong. There was no waiting on Bennett at 19 so I would say let's see what Jankowski is made of before we conclude he goes straight to the AHL.

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I would have rather stayed in our original spot (instead of trading down)and taken Andrei Vasilevskiy. Janko is NHL ready in many ways IMO he may need a season or 2 in the A to get used to the speed difference from college but I think he will be a very good NHL player, maybe not as good as Maata but you never know until you see him in the pro game.

I agree, I think Janko has it in him but Maata has really developed quickly as a young D man. That year was an excellent class for D men, Dumba, Trouba, Rielly, Lindholm, Maata even G.Reinhardt. Most of those D have already graduated as top d men on their teams. It's not fair to compare Janko right now but it just looks like a missed opportunity at this point of our rebuild. Gio- Brodie, Maata-Hamilton would have our back end set for years to come

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The Pens just signed Olli Maata to a 6 yr - $25 mil extension. Not a bad AAV at just over $4mill. Janko vs Olli Maata...We still haven't seen what Janko can do but I'd rather have drafted Maata. He's already grown into a to #1-2 D man, whereas we can only hope Janko will be NHL ready someday. One of Feaster and co. biggest fails IMO

 

It's okay, we may still be able to trade Janko to Weisbrod in Vancouver for a 1st round pick.

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It's okay, we may still be able to trade Janko to Weisbrod in Vancouver for a 1st round pick.

Lol this is true! Maybe that's the annual Flames-Canucks trade for next year.

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The Pens just signed Olli Maata to a 6 yr - $25 mil extension. Not a bad AAV at just over $4mill. Janko vs Olli Maata...We still haven't seen what Janko can do but I'd rather have drafted Maata. He's already grown into a to #1-2 D man, whereas we can only hope Janko will be NHL ready someday. One of Feaster and co. biggest fails IMO

You shouldn't dump on a player because he chose to go the college route instead of Jr Hockey leagues. It is unfair to Jankowski to label him a failure because he is in college when he has not played a single NHL game.

 

Add to this your reasoning is there are others who were drafted around him who are better. Every draft has "hindsight players" who are better than the spot you drafted so hindsight dissing of Jankowski is not warranted either.

 

If you prefer to do this, then don't bother with scouts in college hockey, and never draft from those leagues, as you will just be disappointed.

 

Prepare to always have inferior scouting because every single team will be scouting players that you choose not to.

 

Edit: As well if we had signed Jankowski same year and would have to be doing a contract for him then we couldn't afford him this year. We are mostly letting our UFA's go or trying to get something for them and are still tight to or above the cap. where would we find 6 yrs for $25mil for Janks if he had performed?

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You shouldn't dump on a player because he chose to go the college route instead of Jr Hockey leagues. It is unfair to Jankowski to label him a failure because he is in college when he has not played a single NHL game.

Add to this your reasoning is there are others who were drafted around him who are better. Every draft has "hindsight players" who are better than the spot you drafted so hindsight dissing of Jankowski is not warranted either.

If you prefer to do this, then don't bother with scouts in college hockey, and never draft from those leagues, as you will just be disappointed.

Prepare to always have inferior scouting because every single team will be scouting players that you choose not to.

Edit: As well if we had signed Jankowski same year and would have to be doing a contract for him then we couldn't afford him this year. We are mostly letting our UFA's go or trying to get something for them and are still tight to or above the cap. where would we find 6 yrs for $25mil for Janks if he had performed?

Wow..WTF are you talking about? I said nothing of what you just wrote a novel about. Read my quote over again after you've taken your meds. Flames brass took an off the board pick with Janko that's a known fact, Maata was a consensus top 10 prospect. Flames had an opportunity to draft him and chose to gamble instead on a "project" (Weisbrods term, not mine!) that is Janko. I never called Janko a failure, just said Feaster failed to draft a more sure shot prospect at the time, I even mentioned we haven't seen Jankos potential, didn't even mention him taking the college route, let alone knock him for it.

I guess your the Head scout tho and you've already confirmed Janko will be a guaranteed and productive NHLer

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