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mike_jones

Kenny Agostino

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Well, doesn't seem to be a topic dedicated to Agostino, so figured I'd start one.  With Ben Hanowski overseas, Kenny and Morgan Klimchuk are the only pieces of the Iginla trade.

 

After a slow start, putting up just 15 points in the first 25 games.  Agostino has been red hot since putting up 10 G, 9A, and 19 points in his last 16 games, including 6 G, 6A, 12 PTS in his last 8 GP.  Now just 4 points back of the team lead in scoring and the Heat are on a roll climbing in the standings.

 

Most recently came off a 4 point night on Valentine's Day and I'm guessing he will be the Flames prospect of the week.

 

Good to see!

 

If Agostino and Klimchuk both become regular NHLers one day, the Iginla trade won't look so bad after all.

Here's to hoping!

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From the coach's comments and his previous NCAA profile, Agostino is the type of guy that would excel playing LW for Bennett.  Gritty.

Drives the net.  Good shot.

 

I can't really tell you how he would do in the NHL, since his play has been limited to a few games.  He's not the biggest guy, so he may be similar to Granlund.  Actually, Granlund playing on the wing would be a better measure of this type of player.

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Hopefully Kenny can become a bottom 6 regular, that would be a nice bonus. Regardless, the Iggy trade was necessary. We took what we could get, which unfortunately we haven't been able to parlay into anything meaningful.

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I don't think he is a top 6 forward at the NHL level as I don't belive the skill level is there to be that. I do however think he can be an NHL regular and potentially could play a Lance Bouma type role at the NHL level as a good 3rd liner who can chip in a bit of offence. Got the wheels and the grit to be factor in that type of role. From what i've seen he is a good North- South player, but he doesn't have the puck skills to add an east-west dimension to make himself a threat in a top 6 role. 

 

He's the next call up in my opinion and I will be quite suprised if he doens't get a good look after the TDL.

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I don't think he is a top 6 forward at the NHL level as I don't belive the skill level is there to be that. I do however think he can be an NHL regular and potentially could play a Lance Bouma type role at the NHL level as a good 3rd liner who can chip in a bit of offence. Got the wheels and the grit to be factor in that type of role. From what i've seen he is a good North- South player, but he doesn't have the puck skills to add an east-west dimension to make himself a threat in a top 6 role. 

 

He's the next call up in my opinion and I will be quite suprised if he doens't get a good look after the TDL.

 

I guess I should have started with "if he had the skill".  He is the right type of player to be a N/S player, as much as Bouma does.

There's no way to know if he has that skill to play a top 6 spot, as he hasn't been used in that role here.  He excels in the top 6 in Stockton.

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I guess I should have started with "if he had the skill".  He is the right type of player to be a N/S player, as much as Bouma does.

There's no way to know if he has that skill to play a top 6 spot, as he hasn't been used in that role here.  He excels in the top 6 in Stockton.

 

Excelling is a bit of a stretch. He's playing solid in a top 6 role, but keep in mind he's about to turn 24 so his output IMO is necessary just to be considered a legit NHL prospect. If someone is to be an NHL top 6 forward at 24 years old I would expect more output at the AHL level.

 

That's no slight on Agostino at all as I am a fan, its just reality. I think people forget he isn't a 21 or 22 year old AHL rookie here. 

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Excelling is a bit of a stretch. He's playing solid in a top 6 role, but keep in mind he's about to turn 24 so his output IMO is necessary just to be considered a legit NHL prospect. If someone is to be an NHL top 6 forward at 24 years old I would expect more output at the AHL level.

 

That's no slight on Agostino at all as I am a fan, its just reality. I think people forget he isn't a 21 or 22 year old AHL rookie here. 

 

I look at the last two years in the AHL.  He had a good finish to the year on a low scoring team.  This year, of late, he is a p/gp player.

He's not an AHL rookie, but he came out of a college system and has two years in the AHL.

 

You would like him to be putting up higher number on the Heat, but the AHL isn't exactly rife with players scoring above a p/gp. There just aren't that many.  

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Personally, based on my viewings of him I think he will have a great career. In the AHL. There are plenty of good examples of great AHL players that lack the speed and skill to play at the highest level.

That say, always earned. I could definitely be wrong in that assessment. Agostino has earned a few games in the NHL to prove what he has.

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I'm not sure Bouma would be a good comparable.  Agostino has more offensive flair then Bouma.  Bouma is a 4th liner with 3rd liner upside, while I think Agostino will be a 3rd liner with 2nd line upside.  He was a consistent PPG player in college, and there really isn't a whole lot to work with on the Heat.

 

Who I would WANT him to project to is a player like Mike Hoffman.  Both were 5th round picks.  Both LW 6 feet tall, although Agostino actually has 20 pounds on Hoffman.  I wouldn't exactly call Kenny small at 203 LBS.  That's bigger then most Flames really.

 

But Hoffman played 4 seasons in the AHL after coming out of junior as an overager.  His 1st year of junior, he was even demoted to the ECHL his numbers were so bad.  He didn't actually excel in the AHL until he was 25 and last season was his first full NHL season and put up 27 goals.  This season he already has 24 and projects into the 30's.  Almost a more rounded Curtis Glencross.

 

How Eliteprospects sums up Hoffman, I would hope for Agostino to work up to...

 

 

 

Hoffman is a hard working forward who plays a gritty game. Offensively, he has a great shot and good playmaking ability, too. A speedy skater, he could improve his defensive game. - See more at: http://www.eliteprospects.com/player.php?player=18800#sthash.cSOCFXkp.dpuf

 

At the very least, I would hope he would become a Bouma, but I do think he will become better

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Let's be completely honest:   The reason he's 23 and mostly an AHL player...

 

Is because he's a left winger.

 

We Just Don't Know what would have happened if he were given opportunties at 21, 22.

 

If he were a right-winger, we would have known.

 

IMHO, we should trade him to a team that's heavier on RW, D, G, or draft picks.

 

 

He has value.   But he needs playing time in the NHL and he's not going to get it with this team.   Barring One, or Two, serious injuries (knock on wood).   He's worth taking a chance on, that's not the issue.  We just don't have the room.

 

Let another team take a chance on him.   Let us take a chance on a young D, a young RW, some unkown G, or a 3rd rounder.

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Let's be completely honest:   The reason he's 23 and mostly an AHL player...

 

Is because he's a left winger.

 

We Just Don't Know what would have happened if he were given opportunties at 21, 22.

 

If he were a right-winger, we would have known.

 

IMHO, we should trade him to a team that's heavier on RW, D, G, or draft picks.

 

 

He has value.   But he needs playing time in the NHL and he's not going to get it with this team.   Barring One, or Two, serious injuries (knock on wood).   He's worth taking a chance on, that's not the issue.  We just don't have the room.

 

Let another team take a chance on him.   Let us take a chance on a young D, a young RW, some unkown G, or a 3rd rounder.

Actually it's because he choose to stay in school for the full 4 years and complete his Yale degree and only turned pro last season. Flames tired to get him to turn pro after they acquired him and he passed.

I don't think he has much value until he proves he can play at the NHL level. Every team in th NHL has multiple Agostinos, good AHL players that havnt proven they can play in th NHL, so he likely doesn't return you anything. He has more value to the flames trying him in the NHL then he does via trade.

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Let's be completely honest:   The reason he's 23 and mostly an AHL player...

 

Is because he's a left winger.

 

We Just Don't Know what would have happened if he were given opportunties at 21, 22.

 

If he were a right-winger, we would have known.

 

IMHO, we should trade him to a team that's heavier on RW, D, G, or draft picks.

 

 

He has value.   But he needs playing time in the NHL and he's not going to get it with this team.   Barring One, or Two, serious injuries (knock on wood).   He's worth taking a chance on, that's not the issue.  We just don't have the room.

 

Let another team take a chance on him.   Let us take a chance on a young D, a young RW, some unkown G, or a 3rd rounder.

Lol, who do you have as a better left wing prospect right now?  Mangiapane?  Maybe in a few years but definitely not yet.  Klimchuk?  Looks a few years away too.  Even if you think Bennett is gonna be a permanent lefty, there is still room for Agostino.

 

I'm guessing the reason the Flames didn't see him when he was 21,22 was possibly because he was part of the Penguins?  And/or in college hockey?

 

You make no sense.  You haven't even seen what he can bring to the table.  He's the hottest player on the Heat and about to become the Heat's leading scorer and you want to trade him for timbits?

 

How about let a young 23 year old left winger get a shot in the NHL before you give up on, maybe?

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He certainly has flown under the radar since his acquisition from PIT, but only because we didn't know much about him. He deserves a shot to see what he can do. As an older rookie, I believe you would be surprised what he could bring to the table in the NHL. Decent size and he's shown in the AHL that when he plays well, his team plays well. That tells me he's got some leadership and character in his game. 

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Lol, who do you have as a better left wing prospect right now?  Mangiapane?  Maybe in a few years but definitely not yet.  Klimchuk?  Looks a few years away too.  Even if you think Bennett is gonna be a permanent lefty, there is still room for Agostino.

 

There's this Gaudreau kid who's apparently pretty good.  Also Hudler, Ferland, Granlund, Poirier, Derek Grant, I would play all at LW before him.  Mangiapane/Klimchuk maybe in the future, maybe not, we're overloaded at LW either way.  And that's assuming Bennett is a Center (which he is).

 

I'm guessing the reason the Flames didn't see him when he was 21,22 was possibly because he was part of the Penguins?  And/or in college hockey?

 

You would be guessing wrong.  He was a Flame at 21 years of age.  

 

You make no sense.  You haven't even seen what he can bring to the table.  He's the hottest player on the Heat and about to become the Heat's leading scorer and you want to trade him for timbits?

 

What is your issue with timbits?  Timbits are succulent, and delicious.

 

How about let a young 23 year old left winger get a shot in the NHL before you give up on, maybe?

 

Where were you when I was trying to make a case for Sven Baertschi?   Agostino has about half the skills of Baertschi, is a year older than Baertschi when he was traded, and I'm saying he's still worth a 3rd (because Baertschi commanded a 2nd).   Hey....if we can get a 2nd, I'm all for it.  No arguments here.   Baertschi is proving us wrong.  But... barely.   

 

I agree that he deserves a chance.  But if you really want Agostino to succeed...and I think you do....his best chance is on a team with less LW prospects/players.

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Lol, who do you have as a better left wing prospect right now?  Mangiapane?  Maybe in a few years but definitely not yet.  Klimchuk?  Looks a few years away too.  Even if you think Bennett is gonna be a permanent lefty, there is still room for Agostino.

 

There's this Gaudreau kid who's apparently pretty good.  Also Hudler, Ferland, Granlund, Poirier, Derek Grant, I would play all at LW before him.  Mangiapane/Klimchuk maybe in the future, maybe not, we're overloaded at LW either way.  And that's assuming Bennett is a Center (which he is).

 

 

Gaudreau isn't a prospect.  Granlund is a centre, like it or not.  Hudler and Poirier both play RW in our system.  Grant plays C.

 

So, the only feasable prospects ahead of him for the left wing position are Klimchuk and Mangiapane, which both are a LONG ways aways from becoming full time NHLers, so in the meantime, give the 23 year old a shot.  Try to increase his trade value and what not.

 

If you need more information on which position a player plays, I have attached it below...

 

You're welcome   :)

 

452fd761d1a735a4a30f415bf509c78d.png

 

 

 

And as far as Baertschi goes, I was sad and happy to see him leave, and I would take Rasmus Andersson over Baertschi ANY day of the week as it sits now.  That deal was a STEAL the FLAMES won.  Still to be determined mind you, but wait and see.  Excellent return which we wouldn't be able to get for Agostino.  And Agostino has this thing called a work ethic.  Let him continue to earn it!

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He's the hottest player on the Heat and about to become the Heat's leading scorer and you want to trade him for timbits?

What is your issue with timbits?  Timbits are succulent, and delicious.

yummm Timbittttsss !!!

 

3f7e05af4a55f073258d778b4bc48a1a.jpg

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yummm Timbittttsss !!!

You Canadians don't know how spoiled you are. We don't get timbits down in Oklahoma!

We do have biscuits and gravy and while good, it's just not the same.

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Agostino had a few games up, and didn't look ready when he played. I don't remember if it was the year we drafted Bennett or what, but he wasn't ready nor did he look like an NHLer.

I wouldn't say he didn't have a chance as he never beat out any of our players. With the holes on this team he should be able beat someone out of a spot if he is ready.

He probably deserves a call after the TDL.

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I'm not sure Bouma would be a good comparable. Agostino has more offensive flair then Bouma. Bouma is a 4th liner with 3rd liner upside, while I think Agostino will be a 3rd liner with 2nd line upside. He was a consistent PPG player in college, and there really isn't a whole lot to work with on the Heat.

Who I would WANT him to project to is a player like Mike Hoffman. Both were 5th round picks. Both LW 6 feet tall, although Agostino actually has 20 pounds on Hoffman. I wouldn't exactly call Kenny small at 203 LBS. That's bigger then most Flames really.

But Hoffman played 4 seasons in the AHL after coming out of junior as an overager. His 1st year of junior, he was even demoted to the ECHL his numbers were so bad. He didn't actually excel in the AHL until he was 25 and last season was his first full NHL season and put up 27 goals. This season he already has 24 and projects into the 30's. Almost a more rounded Curtis Glencross.

How Eliteprospects sums up Hoffman, I would hope for Agostino to work up to...

At the very least, I would hope he would become a Bouma, but I do think he will become better

Agostino is no where near Hoffman's talent level. Hoffman is a great skater and has one the very best releases in the NHL right now. Hoffman isn't at all a gritty player.

Agostino has Eric Nystrom type upside. Works hard, can skate, willing to do the little things to help a team win, but just doesn't have the offensive ability to play above the 3rd line.

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Agostino looked surprisingly good at training camp back in September.  I remember watching the line of Agostino - Bennett - Poirier and my initial focus was on the possible chemistry between Bennett - Poirier.  But early into pre-season games, it become evident that Agostino was out playing Poirier.  He was generating more chances, played at a higher level of consistency and compete, and was more truculent overall.

 

My only knock on Agostino is his limited tools.  He never flashed any elite moments at any time during pre-season while Poirier flashed moments here and there.  With Poirier, you got the sense that if only he can consistently flash elite skills, then he's a for sure top 6 at the NHL level.  With Agostino, he never flashed it so you're left to ponder if there's a bottom 6 role for him someday.  My early review of him is that he's going to peak as something like a Josh Jooris, which is solid, but we're not really missing out on anything if he decides to walk and try out for another team next year.

 

We're talking about a player who is adequate but doesn't particularly excel in speed, skating, effort, compete level, passing, shooting, size, etc.  The lows are not that low but the highs are also not very high.

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Agostino is no where near Hoffman's talent level. Hoffman is a great skater and has one the very best releases in the NHL right now. Hoffman isn't at all a gritty player.

Agostino has Eric Nystrom type upside. Works hard, can skate, willing to do the little things to help a team win, but just doesn't have the offensive ability to play above the 3rd line.

 

Agreed. I've always liked, even in college, Agostino's ability to get in on the forecheck and dig pucks out becuase I do think he has above average speed. The problem is he doesn't really create much for his linemates or himself off of it as the skill isn't quite there. Thats a very different player from Hoffman.

 

Hoffman is a real tough comparison becuase his development was all over the place. At times he flashed high end skill and at times he looked liked he'd never make it. His development is a rarity IMO. 

 

Agostino looked surprisingly good at training camp back in September.  I remember watching the line of Agostino - Bennett - Poirier and my initial focus was on the possible chemistry between Bennett - Poirier.  But early into pre-season games, it become evident that Agostino was out playing Poirier.  He was generating more chances, played at a higher level of consistency and compete, and was more truculent overall.

 

My only knock on Agostino is his limited tools.  He never flashed any elite moments at any time during pre-season while Poirier flashed moments here and there.  With Poirier, you got the sense that if only he can consistently flash elite skills, then he's a for sure top 6 at the NHL level.  With Agostino, he never flashed it so you're left to ponder if there's a bottom 6 role for him someday.  My early review of him is that he's going to peak as something like a Josh Jooris, which is solid, but we're not really missing out on anything if he decides to walk and try out for another team next year.

 

We're talking about a player who is adequate but doesn't particularly excel in speed, skating, effort, compete level, passing, shooting, size, etc.  The lows are not that low but the highs are also not very high.

 

IMO, if you were actually using the earned, never given I thought Agostino made the team. I thought he was better in training camp than Bouma, Bolig, Raymond and Jooris but unfortuantely contract status dictated 3 of those make the team. 

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You Canadians don't know how spoiled you are. We don't get timbits down in Oklahoma!

We do have biscuits and gravy and while good, it's just not the same.

Have you tried to sprinkle a little icing sugar over your biscuits and gravy? maybe.....  iengbd.gif

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You Canadians don't know how spoiled you are. We don't get timbits down in Oklahoma!

We do have biscuits and gravy and while good, it's just not the same.

 

With your self-proclaimed over-weight issues, it's probably a good thing they don't have timbits in Oklahoma.

 

IMO, if you were actually using the earned, never given I thought Agostino made the team. I thought he was better in training camp than Bouma, Bolig, Raymond and Jooris but unfortuantely contract status dictated 3 of those make the team. 

 

Ya agreed.  I would say the same about Grant and Hathaway as I thought those two outplayed Stajan and Jooris. 

 

Fast forward 5 months and its sad how abysmal our bottom 6 has been at contributing to wins.  A 4th line of Agostino - Grant - Hathaway would have given this team so much energy out of the gate.  We likely wouldn't have fallen so far behind so early. 

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Fast forward 5 months and its sad how abysmal our bottom 6 has been at contributing to wins.  A 4th line of Agostino - Grant - Hathaway would have given this team so much energy out of the gate.  We likely wouldn't have fallen so far behind so early. 

 I agree its been a key issue, especially when you think back to last year and how good the Flames were rolling all 4 lines. Last year they got 87 goals out of players I think we would consider bottom 6 guys (I included guys like JOnes, Bouma in there). This year its 45. 

 

I'm not surprised becuase you figured guys like Bouma/Jooris weren't going to repeat but it just underscores that the Flames bottom 6 is not as good as people thought and that its not as easy to fill as people think too. 

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 I agree its been a key issue, especially when you think back to last year and how good the Flames were rolling all 4 lines. Last year they got 87 goals out of players I think we would consider bottom 6 guys (I included guys like JOnes, Bouma in there). This year its 45. 

 

I'm not surprised becuase you figured guys like Bouma/Jooris weren't going to repeat but it just underscores that the Flames bottom 6 is not as good as people thought and that its not as easy to fill as people think too. 

 

Last year, I would say that the bottom 6 were a bit more consistent.  They fit together.  This year there has been so many different versions of the bottom 2 lines that I couldn't even tell who the normal trios are.  Raymond in/out.  Bollig on/out.  Jooris in/out.  Bouma injured/in/out.  Granlund in/out.  Hudler top line/3rd line/2nd line.  Colborne every line.  

 

Obviously last year was a career year for a lot of guys, but the early season struggles this season created havoc for the lines.

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