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Eagle_Eye1

Who Coaches the Defence?

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On both the Flames and the Stockton Heat, none of the coaches has the experience as a defenceman.

 

What's with that?  The Flames defensive coach is ex-goalie Jacques Cloutier.

 

The Heat have assistant coaches Todd Gill and Domenic Pittis.  Head Coach, Ryan Huska was a forward as well.

 

How can a prospect or a seasoned vet continue to develop when they don't have the expertise of a coach behind the bench that played pro hockey as a defenceman?

 

Its a shame that the Flames players/prospects can't get the help they need from coaching after they leave junior/NCAA.

 

Its a good thing that many players learn the tricks of the trade from watching other players and learning from their own errors and experiences. At least you better learn fast or your back on the farm, or banished to parts unknown.

 

When you turn pro you learn systems, how to defend against other teams systems and more systems.  Systems are good but they don't teach individual skills.  Systems are about positioning, timing and repetition.  To a point, that you lose the ability to think for yourself and your creativity because you must follow the system.  Unless.... your one of the few exceptions to the rule.

 

Just my thoughts, what do you think?

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On both the Flames and the Stockton Heat, none of the coaches has the experience as a defenceman.

 

What's with that?  The Flames defensive coach is ex-goalie Jacques Cloutier.

 

The Heat have assistant coaches Todd Gill and Domenic Pittis.  Head Coach, Ryan Huska was a forward as well.

 

How can a prospect or a seasoned vet continue to develop when they don't have the expertise of a coach behind the bench that played pro hockey as a defenceman?

 

They do it with mentors like Gio.

 

Its a shame that the Flames players/prospects can't get the help they need from coaching after they leave junior/NCAA.

 

Its a good thing that many players learn the tricks of the trade from watching other players and learning from their own errors and experiences. At least you better learn fast or your back on the farm, or banished to parts unknown.

 

When you turn pro you learn systems, how to defend against other teams systems and more systems.  Systems are good but they don't teach individual skills.  Systems are about positioning, timing and repetition.  To a point, that you lose the ability to think for yourself and your creativity because you must follow the system.  Unless.... your one of the few exceptions to the rule.

 

Just my thoughts, what do you think?

Well just because the coaching staff played the position does not mean he will teach it or properly teach it. This was the big knock on the Oilers for the longest time that they had these former D Men/Asst coaches(from the good old boys) who were not teaching the Dmen properly yet always survived coaching changes.

 

So yes you have a point but the quality of assistant coaching has to be there first.

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I don't think the position is as critical personally. Nashville over the last decade or so has been a bit of a Dman factory and while Barry Trotz was a dman he never played past the WHL and wasn't a very good WHL dman either. all of his assistants were forwards including Lane Lambert who was the AHL coach for most of Trotz's tenure there. not to mention, Huska turned the Rockets into a bit of a D factory as well, so his reputation working with and developing dman is very solid IMO.

 

I think it can actually be helpful to have a different perspective. Dmen think like dmen, forwrads think and react as forwards and I see value in trying to learn certain tendencies you can react to during a game.

 

not that i would mind a change on the coaching staff either however, I just don't think the position they played is as critical. Coaching to me is about 80% preparation, motivation and between the ears and about 20% X and Os and skills. 

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I don't think the position is as critical personally. Nashville over the last decade or so has been a bit of a Dman factory and while Barry Trotz was a dman he never played past the WHL and wasn't a very good WHL dman either. all of his assistants were forwards including Lane Lambert who was the AHL coach for most of Trotz's tenure there. not to mention, Huska turned the Rockets into a bit of a D factory as well, so his reputation working with and developing dman is very solid IMO.

I think it can actually be helpful to have a different perspective. Dmen think like dmen, forwrads think and react as forwards and I see value in trying to learn certain tendencies you can react to during a game.

not that i would mind a change on the coaching staff either however, I just don't think the position they played is as critical. Coaching to me is about 80% preparation, motivation and between the ears and about 20% X and Os and skills.

I think it's about philosophy and like you said, Trotz didn't go further. But that's where a lot of good coaches come from. They can think the game but don't have the natural skill to get them further.

An opposite situation is Gretzky. How was he as a coach, yet he was "the greatest" player to play the game.

Also, not getting past certain levels is why we have refs as well.

But it's a matter of philosophy and teaching. I doubt it's necessary to have played the position, it's a matter of focussing on that aspect and teaching it.

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On both the Flames and the Stockton Heat, none of the coaches has the experience as a defenceman.

What's with that? The Flames defensive coach is ex-goalie Jacques Cloutier.

The Heat have assistant coaches Todd Gill and Domenic Pittis. Head Coach, Ryan Huska was a forward as well.

How can a prospect or a seasoned vet continue to develop when they don't have the expertise of a coach behind the bench that played pro hockey as a defenceman?

Its a shame that the Flames players/prospects can't get the help they need from coaching after they leave junior/NCAA.

Its a good thing that many players learn the tricks of the trade from watching other players and learning from their own errors and experiences. At least you better learn fast or your back on the farm, or banished to parts unknown.

When you turn pro you learn systems, how to defend against other teams systems and more systems. Systems are good but they don't teach individual skills. Systems are about positioning, timing and repetition. To a point, that you lose the ability to think for yourself and your creativity because you must follow the system. Unless.... your one of the few exceptions to the rule.

Just my thoughts, what do you think?

Todd Gill is a vet of over a 1000 NHL games at defense.

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Are you kidding me.  He played forward.  Check Hockey DB

 

I think you better have another look. I'm old enough to remember him playing. LOL

 

Todd Gill

Defense -- shoots L

Born Nov 9 1965 -- Brockville, ONT 

[50 yrs. ago] 

Height 6.01 -- Weight 180 [185 cm/82 kg]

 
Drafted in the 2nd round (#25) of the 1984 NHL Entry Draft
 
 
Taken from Hockey DB

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As a team should we have better puck possession time we give the opposition less opportunities in our end, I would start here. This means a much better offensive game plan. Once in our end, we seem to chase and over persue as defensemen while our forwards do not cover the back door or opposing players in the slots at times, not always but we could be stronger here. Some players are more attentive than others with this part of their game as forwards, the coaches have to sort out the strengths and weaknesses of the team. Lately our PK has done well because the right players are handling the job.

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As a team should we have better puck possession time we give the opposition less opportunities in our end, I would start here. This means a much better offensive game plan. Once in our end, we seem to chase and over persue as defensemen while our forwards do not cover the back door or opposing players in the slots at times, not always but we could be stronger here. Some players are more attentive than others with this part of their game as forwards, the coaches have to sort out the strengths and weaknesses of the team. Lately our PK has done well because the right players are handling the job.

Same could be said about our PP.

 

When the Flames first put Colborne on PP a lot of posters here were asking why bother, he shouldn't be getting PP time.... But suddenly when you get someone willing to stand in front of the net (Colborne) our PP starts to produce.

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As a team should we have better puck possession time we give the opposition less opportunities in our end, I would start here. This means a much better offensive game plan. Once in our end, we seem to chase and over persue as defensemen while our forwards do not cover the back door or opposing players in the slots at times, not always but we could be stronger here. Some players are more attentive than others with this part of their game as forwards, the coaches have to sort out the strengths and weaknesses of the team. Lately our PK has done well because the right players are handling the job.

 

Yes, I agree. Look at the Sedins, they're not the greatest in defense, but once they skate it up ice and are possession monsters. 

 

The defensive end is a mess on this team. It has been for a very long time. I am going back to before Hartley and well into the Iginla days. Even with B.Sutter's defensive systems there were a lot of defensive lapses. I don't know what it is, but we're drafting players that aren't very defensively aware. 

Same could be said about our PP.

 

When the Flames first put Colborne on PP a lot of posters here were asking why bother, he shouldn't be getting PP time.... But suddenly when you get someone willing to stand in front of the net (Colborne) our PP starts to produce.

 

I was thinking the same about putting Colborne on the PP. That's only because all he seemed to do was skate around in circles with the puck, protecting it and then lose it after about 20 seconds. 

 

When they put Ferland in front of the net I was thinking, now they're getting it. And he didn't stick, but they traded him for Ferland to do net duty. So that's good. 

 

I felt like the goalies were seeing it too much. Why get a one timer if the goalie sees it coming?

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Yes, I agree. Look at the Sedins, they're not the greatest in defense, but once they skate it up ice and are possession monsters. 

 

The defensive end is a mess on this team. It has been for a very long time. I am going back to before Hartley and well into the Iginla days. Even with B.Sutter's defensive systems there were a lot of defensive lapses. I don't know what it is, but we're drafting players that aren't very defensively aware. 

 

I was thinking the same about putting Colborne on the PP. That's only because all he seemed to do was skate around in circles with the puck, protecting it and then lose it after about 20 seconds. 

 

When they put Ferland in front of the net I was thinking, now they're getting it. And he didn't stick, but they traded him for Ferland to do net duty. So that's good. 

 

I felt like the goalies were seeing it too much. Why get a one timer if the goalie sees it coming?

It was very frustrating watching their PP early in the season with no net presence. I don't think you can be compotent NHL pp without a presence in front of the net. Any half decent goalie is going to make a save 95% of the time if they can see the puck.

So flames were about 2 months late making the change. Sorry I'm not going to give a coaching staff credit for fixing a problem that should have never been there in the first place and one they took 2 months to fix.

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Yes, the horrible PP has frustrated me for a long time. That goes back to last season as well. If penalties were like in football, where you can decline them, we probably should have declined them for the first 3 quarters of the season, is how bad the PP has been. 

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Same could be said about our PP.

 

When the Flames first put Colborne on PP a lot of posters here were asking why bother, he shouldn't be getting PP time.... But suddenly when you get someone willing to stand in front of the net (Colborne) our PP starts to produce.

At the outset of the season it was way to obvious they were going to let our D do all the shooting, we got defensed. Then we tried letting Gaudreau do all the work and if he didn't cough it up all he did was skate around the outside. Yeah it wasn't good but it came around mid-season as all of Giordano, Brodie and Hamilton found their game on the PP, you always need the extra havoc in front of the goalie.

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As a team should we have better puck possession time we give the opposition less opportunities in our end, I would start here. This means a much better offensive game plan. Once in our end, we seem to chase and over persue as defensemen while our forwards do not cover the back door or opposing players in the slots at times, not always but we could be stronger here. Some players are more attentive than others with this part of their game as forwards, the coaches have to sort out the strengths and weaknesses of the team. Lately our PK has done well because the right players are handling the job.

I would agree that the D usually cover their man till mid-way up the boards but that seems to be their "assignment" rather than a lack on their part individually.  Personally I like it because it covers a guy till he is out of the most dangerous areas, but I agree the F have to do their parts as well, and perhaps that is our actual problem?

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