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Going4TheCup

Dillon Dube

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Anybody watch the final game of round 1 dor the Rockets?  Dube was a force out there.  I think he ended the series 4g and 2a with 2 game winning goals.  Looking forward to seeing him as a Flame some day.

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33 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

Anybody watch the final game of round 1 dor the Rockets?  Dube was a force out there.  I think he ended the series 4g and 2a with 2 game winning goals.  Looking forward to seeing him as a Flame some day.

 

If he can stay healthy I think he will wind up being a steal. Health is really the only reason he was available in the 2nd round IMO.

 

Has a real chance to turn into a dominant offensive force next year in the WHL too and should be a key part of Team Canada at the WJC. Hopefully he stays healthy.  

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Dube looked great last night in the WHL vs Russia game. He had a goal and an assist and captained the WHL team. He was flying, all over the ice putting lots of pressure on the puck. He showed good speed, good skill and plenty of two way ability. I am expecting him to have a very big role for Team Canada at the WJC.

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1 hour ago, JTech780 said:

Dube looked great last night in the WHL vs Russia game. He had a goal and an assist and captained the WHL team. He was flying, all over the ice putting lots of pressure on the puck. He showed good speed, good skill and plenty of two way ability. I am expecting him to have a very big role for Team Canada at the WJC.

 

I think we previously suffered from the "Me" crowd.  Dube is all about "Us".  He should really help balance out the guys that want to score only.

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I really think Dube could be ready to make the jump to the NHL next year. He is probably my favorite prospect right now. He can skate, he can play the game anyway you want it and he can play up and down the line up and line up at any forward position. If I was Sam Bennett I would be looking at this guy and worrying about my spot on the team.

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1 hour ago, JTech780 said:

 

I really think Dube could be ready to make the jump to the NHL next year. He is probably my favorite prospect right now. He can skate, he can play the game anyway you want it and he can play up and down the line up and line up at any forward position. If I was Sam Bennett I would be looking at this guy and worrying about my spot on the team.

 

At the very least, Dube is the kind of guy that you can play on the 4th line and he makes that line able to do their job.  Stajan, Freddie, Lazar, Brouwer are not the answer for this team (obviously).

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On 11/7/2017 at 0:35 PM, travel_dude said:

 

I think we previously suffered from the "Me" crowd.  Dube is all about "Us".  He should really help balance out the guys that want to score only.

 

Agree, he has impossible not to like and a great drafting decision.  He is a decade ahead of his age at making unselfish team first decisions on the ice.

 

22 hours ago, travel_dude said:

 

At the very least, Dube is the kind of guy that you can play on the 4th line and he makes that line able to do their job.  Stajan, Freddie, Lazar, Brouwer are not the answer for this team (obviously).

 

   I know you're not suggesting he's a 4th line projection, but just to be clear I think unselfish play is needed on the first line just as much as the 4th, and it should not be held against his development.  He should be developed, when he gets to the AHL, to be an impact player on the Flames.   It could take him a while but I think he has the talent to be a big scorer when he figures some things out.

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29 minutes ago, jjgallow said:

 

Agree, he has impossible not to like and a great drafting decision.  He is a decade ahead of his age at making unselfish team first decisions on the ice.

 

 

   I know you're not suggesting he's a 4th line projection, but just to be clear I think unselfish play is needed on the first line just as much as the 4th, and it should not be held against his development.  He should be developed, when he gets to the AHL, to be an impact player on the Flames.   It could take him a while but I think he has the talent to be a big scorer when he figures some things out.

 

No, I am suggesting he is exactly the type of player you need next year on the 4th line.  I don't think it stunts his growth unless he plays with Brouwer.  Having the ability to roll out a 4th line that can both score and prevent goals is not something we have right now.  Doesn't mean he has to stay there, but I would have no issue with him playing 12 minutes a night to begin with.

 

Think of a line of Klimchuk-Dube-Poirier for the 4th line.  Would that be any worse than Lazar-Stajan-Brouwer?  I know the WJC isn't exactly a great measuring stick, but he played on a checking line and it turned out to be one of the best two-way lines in the tournament.  He was a huge part of that.

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5 hours ago, travel_dude said:

 

No, I am suggesting he is exactly the type of player you need next year on the 4th line.  I don't think it stunts his growth unless he plays with Brouwer.  Having the ability to roll out a 4th line that can both score and prevent goals is not something we have right now.  Doesn't mean he has to stay there, but I would have no issue with him playing 12 minutes a night to begin with.

 

Think of a line of Klimchuk-Dube-Poirier for the 4th line.  Would that be any worse than Lazar-Stajan-Brouwer?  I know the WJC isn't exactly a great measuring stick, but he played on a checking line and it turned out to be one of the best two-way lines in the tournament.  He was a huge part of that.

 

Ok, then we are in fact at an impasse.

 

IMHO, bringing players into the NHL too soon, because they have enough raw skills to survive in the least skilled NHL roles, is how many, many bright talents have been ruined.

 

I would like to see how he does in the WJC this year on one of the top lines.   And maybe you're right that he's just more suited to the 3rd, 4th line, but IMHO he's too talented to make that call now.   Those are Learnable skills.   Even then, if we were going to develop him that way,  I'd rather see him take on a leadership role in the AHL first.  Have him captain or at least assistant captain the team down there for a year.   Experience an AHL playoff battle.   Then go from there. 

 

JMHO.

 

 

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4 hours ago, jjgallow said:

 

Ok, then we are in fact at an impasse.

 

IMHO, bringing players into the NHL too soon, because they have enough raw skills to survive in the least skilled NHL roles, is how many, many bright talents have been ruined.

 

I would like to see how he does in the WJC this year on one of the top lines.   And maybe you're right that he's just more suited to the 3rd, 4th line, but IMHO he's too talented to make that call now.   Those are Learnable skills.   Even then, if we were going to develop him that way,  I'd rather see him take on a leadership role in the AHL first.  Have him captain or at least assistant captain the team down there for a year.   Experience an AHL playoff battle.   Then go from there. 

 

JMHO.

 

 

 

Look, we probably agree on his ceiling.  I just see him as a guy that's skilled enough to play in the NHL next season.  The only available place for him is 3rd line RW or 4th line center.  I am a big supporter of having 4 usable lines.  We don't right now.  Stick him in the AHL and he will be there years.  And in a lot of cases those that play in the AHL struggle to adjust.  

 

Hey, if he's not ready for the NHL next season, then by all means he plays in the AHL.  The last thing I want to see is him going to the AHL because we have useless vets that are just gritty, even though he has proved himself ready.

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15 hours ago, travel_dude said:

 

Look, we probably agree on his ceiling.  I just see him as a guy that's skilled enough to play in the NHL next season.  The only available place for him is 3rd line RW or 4th line center.  I am a big supporter of having 4 usable lines.  We don't right now.  Stick him in the AHL and he will be there years.  And in a lot of cases those that play in the AHL struggle to adjust.  

 

Hey, if he's not ready for the NHL next season, then by all means he plays in the AHL.  The last thing I want to see is him going to the AHL because we have useless vets that are just gritty, even though he has proved himself ready.

 

I just don't think the numbers back up your claim, if you compare how many fall apart in the NHL.   Yes, many players never make it past the AHL and that is because the NHL is hockey's elite league.   I don't see how you're making the leap of logic that skipping straight to the NHL gives them better chances of success.    Surely not from the results we've seen.

 

You mentioned him being a better fit than Lazaar, as an example.   There is no comparison if you look at their junior records...Lazar is far and away the more talented junior.    Why would  we literally copy Lazar's development and do the same to Dube?      Look at how Bennett is struggling, and how quickly Monahan plateaued.   Look at how Tkachuck's goal scoring has gone down from last year.  

 

What's wrong with a little development, like we did with our one true 100% success, Gaudreau?   Or may others.  Brodie, Giordano, I'm not happy with what we did with Backlund, but it's clear that his AHL development was key.   

 

I'm not sure if you're refering to Poirier and Klimchuk, who were never good draft choices to begin with?  Poirier's struggles have been publicized and aren't because he went to the AHL.  In fact he started out making a great transition there.    Klimchuck was held in the WHL for two years after his draft, missing key development time.  No idea what the thought process was there.    I believe we had a clog and for whatever reason didn't put the time in to work out a loan.

 

After all the struggles we've had with skipping player development, and after watching constant Oilers implosions, I'm just not able to understand this angle.

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6 hours ago, jjgallow said:

I just don't think the numbers back up your claim, if you compare how many fall apart in the NHL.   Yes, many players never make it past the AHL and that is because the NHL is hockey's elite league.   I don't see how you're making the leap of logic that skipping straight to the NHL gives them better chances of success.    Surely not from the results we've seen.

 

 

There's no point in generalizing players development.  What works for one doesn't for another.  I felt he was almost NHL ready this past summer, but realistically there was no spot for him, nor did it make sense this year to play him in the NHL.  

 

You are talking about Lazar like he's a similar player.  Maybe it is what they tried to turn him into, but Dube was not a goal scorer like Lazar was.  You can see that in his style of play and the balance of goals versus assists.  BTW, you do remember that Dube missed part of last season leading up to the WJC (only played 40 games) and are aware that Dube has more junior points that Lazar did in fewer games.  I think you see a bigger struggle where they try to turn a goal scorer into a two way player.     

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3 hours ago, travel_dude said:

 

There's no point in generalizing players development.  What works for one doesn't for another.  I felt he was almost NHL ready this past summer, but realistically there was no spot for him, nor did it make sense this year to play him in the NHL.  

 

You are talking about Lazar like he's a similar player.  Maybe it is what they tried to turn him into, but Dube was not a goal scorer like Lazar was.  You can see that in his style of play and the balance of goals versus assists.  BTW, you do remember that Dube missed part of last season leading up to the WJC (only played 40 games) and are aware that Dube has more junior points that Lazar did in fewer games.  I think you see a bigger struggle where they try to turn a goal scorer into a two way player.     

 

So, you make a lot of good points, especially in the comparisons of the two, but I think there is definitely a point in generalizing and I've rarely seen a case where rushing a player the NHL proved beneficial.  By that, I mean when we look at players who have shown the greatest improvement from 18 years of age to 25 years of age, it is usually  associated with appropriately staged progressions in competition (leagues), and a Consistent position/role that they've been allowed to focus on improving in, with optimal minutes. 

 

Huge, abrupt and inappropriate transitions in competition (leagues), or in position/role, typically result in reduced improvement, plateaued improvement, injury, and in many cases regression.   It's just not worth it.  The only time it worth it, is when the NHL just isn't a big jump for that player, and their roles won't even change at all.  Crosby.   McDavid.  etc.

 

With regards to Dube, we both agree there's talent.  We both agree some components of his game are NHL ready now.    We disagree on things like his offensive potential.  And I'm not even sure about that.  You're saying that Lazar was a natural goal scorer, so it's different.   But then you're saying Dube has more points. 

 

Soooo...sure...maybe one's more of a playmaker, and one's more of a goal scorer.  Maybe one was more of a complete player than the other.    But, all things aside, both had great offensive potential.   I would give the nod to Lazar on the higher ceiling there (at one time), but no point arguing about it as they both had/have huge offensive ceilings.  I think we both see that....goals, assists...whatever.

 

So Lazar was perceived as more NHL ready becuase of his goal scoring, and his position (RW).   

 

You're perceiving Dube as more NHL ready because of he has a more complete 2-way game.

 

I'm saying both are right, and yet wrong.   In both cases....yeah.   It fits..  It could work.   But is it the best way to see the player reach their full potential of a first line star/superstar?  Or even a 2nd liner?   Or as a leader on the team?    No it is not.  

 

Dube is in a key role right now.   He's an impact player, the best player on his team, and a leader.

 

Don't change that.   It's not worth changing that to fill some hole we have.   He has the skillsets to transition that same exact role to the AHL.  Let him do that.    We need that future role more than we need a fix to our 4th line now.    Let him continue to develop as a leader, and a core player, and...yes, as a key offensive player.   He can do that in the AHL.  Give him 1-2 years there, and he may be able to do that on the Flames.

 

 

p.s...and If not...then yeah, he'd be a killer 4th line player.  But let's no start there

 

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Gotta say that I am impressed with our drafting the last couple of years. Dube, Valimaki, Fox, and Tuulola are great picks. 

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24 minutes ago, Cowtownguy said:

Gotta say that I am impressed with our drafting the last couple of years. Dube, Valimaki, Fox, and Tuulola are great picks. 

With Dube as captain of TC, Valimaki doing the same for Finland & Fox wearing an "A" for the USA  that's pretty good.

 

We also have Ruzicka playing for Slovakia. He fell to the 4th round but from what I've read he might still blossom.

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12 hours ago, The_People1 said:

So, what do we think of Dube after the WJC?

 

I'm really looking forward to see him in a Flames jersey...   He-s only going to get even better...

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I predict that he will play a full season in Stockton next year.

I hope that he will turn into a middle 6 forward for the Flames the following season.

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On January 7, 2018 at 1:48 AM, The_People1 said:

So, what do we think of Dube after the WJC?

I see a guy who shows leadership. In the gold medal game, I thought that he was one of the few who seemed to take the Swedish game in stride and know how to counter it. It appeared that he had the ability to adjust his play rather quickly. While many other TC players looked rattled by the disruptions caused by Sweden, Dube looked calm and motivated. I also like his speed. 

 

I don't think that Dube will ever be a playmaker like Johnny. I do think that he has important (possibly boring) qualities that are needed to make a team good-great. At this point, he kind of reminds me of Monahan, but with emotions.

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