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Sirwilliam89

What Is Best For Matthew Tkachuk

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What was your impression of Burke?  

Burke's shooting % all drills and game had to be hovering around 50%, very impressive.  He also had some slick moves and handled the puck well.  Being small he got muscled off the puck at times, but was in there battling.  To me he's a no-brainer to sign as a free agent asap.  

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From my understand tkachuk cant go to ahl he is to young to go there atleast that is what i was told

Not until he's 20. But he has 2 more years of CHL eligibility. Unlike Monahan he's on a good team with a good coach so a couple of years of growth won't hurt him.

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He is training under Gary Roberts..  lol  barring injury he will be in shape to make the team

 

LOL!  There goes his summer vacation….and his signing bonus!!

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If I answer that question right now in early July the best thing for him is to return to junior. He is on a great development team and he will have the opportunity to lead the teams offence next season.

But you don't answer that question in July. Ask again mid to late September and you might get a different answer.

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The decision is while you shelter Tkachuk do you hold back Bennett with less ice time ? I don't think there is any doubt Tkachuk could survive in the NHL however it is a fine line of whether he would be physically ready. Mentally these kids are all hyped that they are NHL material but it is the evaluators and coaches that have to decide if he can stand up to the challenge or is there another player more advanced.

Maybe Tkachuk can play both sides, not sure what would be best for him to concentrate on. So let me ask you this, why do you see Pollock in the AHL and not Tkachuk for further development ? Both are similar size, play a very similar game with very similar results and Pollock is likely the better skater.

JT you got me thinking about Tkachuk playing RW which may be a good plan but I would still send him back to Junior. We have enough good talent to feed our LW with the likes of Ferland, Shinkaruk, Pollock, Mangiapane and Klimchuk not to mention another draft or two.

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From all I have read, the big finn and Oliver Kyllington stole the spot light at the scrimmage. Tkachuk going to work on his skating with Gary Roberts this summer is great, he will definitely be working his butt off until September. Guess now we just wait and see- September could be a whole different story.

 

 

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Welcome, and nice layout of your thoughts on quick post.

 

I personally think he's better suited to not be rushed.  I think Monahan was an outlier and made the team moreso out of necessity than showing the club he belonged at 18 years old.

 

I say send Tkachuk back and let him own the league.

Thanks for the welcome!

Welcome! Always nice to see new members and well thought out post

 

I agree it's too hard to tell right now, training camp will determine what is best for him.

 

My personal prefence is he goes back to junior but I would say that about basically every prospect. I think 90% of the time its better for prospects to go back to junior because they all have developing to do and i'm of the no rush mentality. I think his skill is NHL levle, I think he thinks an NHL level but I don't think right now he skates at an NHL level so I'd rather so him go back to junior and really work on that. Not to mention, I think him going back to London without Dvorak and maybe even Marner would be a huge beneift for him, not to mention he likely would be the top player for the World junior team for the US. 

 

But if he proves me wrong, he makes the team but at this point hard to say. 

Thanks for the welcome!!

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Personally I would like to see him make the team (he's needed) but it will all come down to performance so its up to him.  As far as the roster goes, my ideal spot for him is with Bennett, long term and playing the RW side with Mangiapanne on the LW would be an ideal mix (on paper), with them fitting the 3rd line, somewhat protected role to start the season.  It'll be interesting to see how everything shakes out once the bullets start flying for real.  

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An interesting thing about Tkachuk:

 

  • For 2016-17, it's either the NHL or the OHL for him. His contract runs if he plays 10+ games in the NHL.
  • For 2017-18, he'd be eligible to play in the NHL, the AHL or the OHL, and if his contract hadn't already started to run from the season prior, his deal would slide if he was in the AHL or OHL.

The advantage is the ability for his contract to slide.  Nothing like having that flexibility when it comes to signing his next deal.

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Personally I would like to see him make the team (he's needed) but it will all come down to performance so its up to him.  As far as the roster goes, my ideal spot for him is with Bennett, long term and playing the RW side with Mangiapanne on the LW would be an ideal mix (on paper), with them fitting the 3rd line, somewhat protected role to start the season.  It'll be interesting to see how everything shakes out once the bullets start flying for real.  

I think Bennett is ready to make the move up to line 2 with it's bigger minutes.

Saddling him with 2 rookies (1 playing his off-side) on the 3rd line merely stunts that growth.

 

Unless Tkachuk is head & shoulders above everyone on LW except for Gaudeau let him grow on a pretty good London organization.

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I'd prefer that Tkachuk play a 3rd season in London.

 

He'd be without Dvorak (and maybe Marner), so he could have the chance to be "the man" on that team.

 

 

I too want Bennett to take on an expanded role, but I want a veteran winger on his line.

 

IMO, Brouwer or Frolik would be best for his development.

 

Gaudreau - Monahan - Chiasson to start?

Shinkaruk - Bennett - Brouwer

Stajan - Backlund - Frolik (faces the opposition's top line when at home)

Ferland - Hamilton - Bouma (they all are able to play RW, Bouma can play at all 3 positions)

Spares: Bollig (LW), Vey (C/RW)

 

Of the above, only Bennett & Shinkaruk are waiver exempt.

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I'd prefer that Tkachuk play a 3rd season in London.

 

He'd be without Dvorak (and maybe Marner), so he could have the chance to be "the man" on that team.

 

 

I too want Bennett to take on an expanded role, but I want a veteran winger on his line.

 

IMO, Brouwer or Frolik would be best for his development.

 

Gaudreau - Monahan - Chiasson to start?

Shinkaruk - Bennett - Brouwer

Stajan - Backlund - Frolik (faces the opposition's top line when at home)

Ferland - Hamilton - Bouma (they all are able to play RW, Bouma can play at all 3 positions)

Spares: Bollig (LW), Vey (C/RW)

 

Of the above, only Bennett & Shinkaruk are waiver exempt.

What about Stajan on Bennett's LW giving him 2 veterans to play with him ? Give Backlund Ferland and if Ferland doesn't cut it bring up Shinkaruk. Use Fey as the 4th line C and Hathaway on RW.

 

I would like to see what a line of Shinkaruk, Jankowski and Poirier could do in the AHL.

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Just about everyone on this forums thought that SEAN MONAHAN should go back to Junior too. Same posters thought that World Juniors was his best place and coming off injury that turned out to be a "player recovery issue".

 

He earned his cup of coffee and more and we all know how his story turned out.

 

I know some will say that Mony's (Ottawa) team was not that good and that Tka's team is a better and better winning environment but....

Often easily dominating a level of play, a player is not progressing in their development.

 

Rather than pigeonhole him, I will say the same thing as I did with Mony.. Let him give it his best shot here and earn his spot. If he earns it, then his best teaching is here with the Flames staff nearby. If he is not ready(ability) then send him back.

 

There is no need to take this discussion to the "he is young and might get hurt" issue. A player can get hurt just as easily in Junior as he can in AHL or NHL or any other league.

 

His training with Gary Roberts should put his conditioning close to or adequate to NHL training requirements.

 

Edit: I fully expect to see someone pull out the Detroit model and say "Let him ripen in the farm system like Red Wings" do with their prospects.

 

My response would be This model is for regular draft picks. Detroit rarely has high draft picks so it is a good model for their later picks, however one only has to look at the more recent drafts to see the NHL is changing with more and more High Draft Picks being able to play and contribute 1st season after being drafted.

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Just about everyone on this forums thought that SEAN MONAHAN should go back to Junior too. Same posters thought that World Juniors was his best place and coming off injury that turned out to be a "player recovery issue".

 

He earned his cup of coffee and more and we all know how his story turned out.

 

I know some will say that Mony's (Ottawa) team was not that good and that Tka's team is a better and better winning environment but....

Often easily dominating a level of play, a player is not progressing in their development.

 

Rather than pigeonhole him, I will say the same thing as I did with Mony.. Let him give it his best shot here and earn his spot. If he earns it, then his best teaching is here with the Flames staff nearby. If he is not ready(ability) then send him back.

 

There is no need to take this discussion to the "he is young and might get hurt" issue. A player can get hurt just as easily in Junior as he can in AHL or NHL or any other league.

 

His training with Gary Roberts should put his conditioning close to or adequate to NHL training requirements.

I think he will get his chance here, at only 18 and only 1 year of Junior I would believe another year of Junior would be better for his development. They will have a good look at him in camp and sort out their decision. Let's not forget with Monahan and Bennett we had a real need at C to fill during the rebuild, now expectations have advanced. It would be a lot to expect Tkachuk to just step in and play on one of the top lines plus does he hold anyone back. We will see but comments made by BT and BB I expect he goes back to London.

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Edit: I fully expect to see someone pull out the Detroit model and say "Let him ripen in the farm system like Red Wings" do with their prospects.

 

My response would be This model is for regular draft picks. Detroit rarely has high draft picks so it is a good model for their later picks, however one only has to look at the more recent drafts to see the NHL is changing with more and more High Draft Picks being able to play and contribute 1st season after being drafted.

I'd also point to the Red Wing's Dylan Larkin. Drafted in 2014, played the 14-15 season with them. He was good enough to make them play him and not ripen on the farm. So even the Detroit model isn't absolute.

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I think he will get his chance here, at only 18 and only 1 year of Junior I would believe another year of Junior would be better for his development. They will have a good look at him in camp and sort out their decision. Let's not forget with Monahan and Bennett we had a real need at C to fill during the rebuild, now expectations have advanced. It would be a lot to expect Tkachuk to just step in and play on one of the top lines plus does he hold anyone back. We will see but comments made by BT and BB I expect he goes back to London.

I would say they made the say comments about bennett and mony, also we have a need on the wings. Its not as great of a need as it was for center, but I wouldnt say our top 9 wingers are that great by any stretch.

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I'd also point to the Red Wing's Dylan Larkin. Drafted in 2014, played the 14-15 season with them. He was good enough to make them play him and not ripen on the farm. So even the Detroit model isn't absolute.

That isn't correct. Larkin announced he was going to the U of Michigan, was drafted and played his first yr. At the end of the season he signed his ELC and joined Grand Rapids on their playoff run.

He was a rookie NHLer last year, a yr after his draft, and was the first 19yo to make Detroit's roster in 25-or so years.

He was around 1.5ppg as a rookie in the NCAA and racked up over 200 shots as a rookie with the Wings.

Special C to get at 15, St Loo pulled Fabbri at 21.

Should be interesting that we took Smith at 54 and ARI took Dvorak at 58 in 2014.

Listening to ARI's  GM on NHL radio, he's opening roster spots for camp, expects Dvorak as "likely" to make the big club.

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I would say they made the say comments about bennett and mony, also we have a need on the wings. Its not as great of a need as it was for center, but I wouldnt say our top 9 wingers are that great by any stretch.

I don't recall those comments with respect to Monahan, he was and is one of the most fundamentally sound players I have seen in a while. Bennett I would have had no problem send him back to Junior but someone felt he could be used in Calgary. I think they wasted him for a year here. Tkachuk has played 1 year of Junior coming from an American program and I dare say he could use both more maturity and development before he steps onto one of our top lines.

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What gets lost when people talk about the Detroit model is Detroit has traditionally drafted very late so the prospects they get are often futher away from the NHL. I think if people are holding up the Detroit model and using it as proof that ALL prospects should wait, your are missing the point. To me the Detroit model represents that the vast majority of prospects need to wait and should wait until they are ready but that they are always exceptions and the player is going to tell you when you have an exception or not. 

 

Bottom line, Tkachuk is going to tell the Flames were he is going to play this year based on his offseason work and how he performs in Camp. I don't your "needs" as a club should, or will, matter in the decision its up Tkachuk just like it was with Mony. That is following the Detroit (and imo the proper) development model anyway. 

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I don't recall those comments with respect to Monahan, he was and is one of the most fundamentally sound players I have seen in a while. Bennett I would have had no problem send him back to Junior but someone felt he could be used in Calgary. I think they wasted him for a year here. Tkachuk has played 1 year of Junior coming from an American program and I dare say he could use both more maturity and development before he steps onto one of our top lines.

 

Many here wanted Monahan to go back for the WJC and others wanted him to go back to junior, but he managed to score so much in his first 9 games.  Bennett, on the other hand, was needed for his offense in the playoffs.  Those games are what burned his 1st year.

In hindsight, it was a waste, but at the time, they were looking to move on past Anaheim.  No worse than playing Johnny 1 game in his first season in a lost season.

 

I may be offbase, but I don't think Tkachuk will have as dynamic a start to his NHL career as Monahan.  If he plays with Monahan, he will get points, but maybe not score much.  Is that really an impressive feat?  If he plays with Bennett and gets that line going, then that will be much more impressive.  For one thing, it shows a fit with a player coming off just an OK year.  For another, it shows the potential future pairing.

 

I hope that Tkachuk comes in and shows he is mostly NHL ready, but is beat out by Shinkaruk and/or Poirier.  That means those two guys have great camps and good starts.  And it means we are graduating players according to schedule.  We have to know what we have in Poirier, Shinkaruk and Ferland this year, so we know who to protect.  I want the choice to be difficult.  I want them to make the decision on Tkachuk to be best in the interests of the team and the player's development.

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Funny every yr we seem to have same conversation on the top draft should he stay or should he go. I for one think the kid has done it all right up to the memorial cup and he was a pivotal part of that win. The management will do the same for him as they did with mono JH and Bennett prove it. I think Chucky is head and shoulder more mature and Hockey smart than alot of players already playing in the NHL if Domi can do it then I know Chucky can. On another note Haynes from 80 Desibiles did another pod cast fun to listen to. just go to Haynes from 80 ft it will give you a link.

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Many here wanted Monahan to go back for the WJC and others wanted him to go back to junior, but he managed to score so much in his first 9 games.  Bennett, on the other hand, was needed for his offense in the playoffs.  Those games are what burned his 1st year.

In hindsight, it was a waste, but at the time, they were looking to move on past Anaheim.  No worse than playing Johnny 1 game in his first season in a lost season.

 

I may be offbase, but I don't think Tkachuk will have as dynamic a start to his NHL career as Monahan.  If he plays with Monahan, he will get points, but maybe not score much.  Is that really an impressive feat?  If he plays with Bennett and gets that line going, then that will be much more impressive.  For one thing, it shows a fit with a player coming off just an OK year.  For another, it shows the potential future pairing.

 

I hope that Tkachuk comes in and shows he is mostly NHL ready, but is beat out by Shinkaruk and/or Poirier.  That means those two guys have great camps and good starts.  And it means we are graduating players according to schedule.  We have to know what we have in Poirier, Shinkaruk and Ferland this year, so we know who to protect.  I want the choice to be difficult.  I want them to make the decision on Tkachuk to be best in the interests of the team and the player's development.

Timing is everything and a lot weighs into any decision. We all have our own feelings regarding readiness. Sure Tkachuk would score points here but what are his weaknesses and how will the effect team play overall. Would a year of further working out and having his body mature serve him better to play at the NHL level. All of these things have to be weighed into his assessment.

Ferland is definitely in a show me year and hopefully he will be allowed to settle in on a line and do well all year. Shinkaruk and Poirier could play from the outset but they could also come in later for part of the season with an extended show me period. The fact remains we have certain players that BT has to unload.

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Timing is everything and a lot weighs into any decision. We all have our own feelings regarding readiness. Sure Tkachuk would score points here but what are his weaknesses and how will the effect team play overall. Would a year of further working out and having his body mature serve him better to play at the NHL level. All of these things have to be weighed into his assessment.

Ferland is definitely in a show me year and hopefully he will be allowed to settle in on a line and do well all year. Shinkaruk and Poirier could play from the outset but they could also come in later for part of the season with an extended show me period. The fact remains we have certain players that BT has to unload.

 

The problem is that the players we mainly want to unload are vets.  I don't see any sense in unloading prospects, unless they are D-men that don't really have a future beyond bottom pair (Kulak, Culkin, Morrison).  The vets that we could move out have little value, so I don't know that will happen.  A one-time 20 goal scorer got us a 6th, and that was by taking back a significant contract.  In an expansion year, I don't know that we will get much or anything for guys like Bollig or Engelland.  Stajan would have to have a pretty significant year to have any offers.  Bouma, with a much improved year, could fetch something due to the lower cap hit.

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The problem is that the players we mainly want to unload are vets.  I don't see any sense in unloading prospects, unless they are D-men that don't really have a future beyond bottom pair (Kulak, Culkin, Morrison).  The vets that we could move out have little value, so I don't know that will happen.  A one-time 20 goal scorer got us a 6th, and that was by taking back a significant contract.  In an expansion year, I don't know that we will get much or anything for guys like Bollig or Engelland.  Stajan would have to have a pretty significant year to have any offers.  Bouma, with a much improved year, could fetch something due to the lower cap hit.

Vets were who I was obviously talking about. I don't know that BT is particularily worried about moving those with expiring contracts but if they perform some team may want them. I think he has positioned this team to max out the benefits of development for the immediate at the NHL level and prime playing time for key prospects at the AHL level.

Engelland likely stays this season.

Bollig likely gets dumped at some point.

Wideman is one that could stay if playing well or could be traded if BT is made a good offer.

Stajan same as Wideman if he is playing well and someone wants him.

Bouma needs to stay healthy enough for someone to want him otherwise he could just play out the year.

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