Jump to content
The Official Site of the Calgary Flames

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

Recommended Posts

So it's time, and perhaps overdue:

 

Oliver Kylington really needs his own thread.    If there already is one and I've missed it, my apologies but I can't find one.

 

He was always going to be a win big, lose big kind of pick.   Last year was understandably hard to read, with his transition to North American ice, and his Extremely young age to be in the AHL as a defenceman.

 

This Year:   It is becoming Extremely apparent that the we may have Win Big with this kid.  He is looking more and more like the Top 5 overall draft pick which he was originally rated as, who we scooped up late in the 2nd round.

 

As a recap:

http://www.matchsticksandgasoline.com/2015/6/29/8864973/hakan-loob-on-oliver-kylington-sign-him-right-away-and-bring-him-over

 

In  a 2015 redraft, I would currently put him in as the 2nd-best defenceman drafted, behind Zach Werenski, and in a near deadlocked tie with Noah Hanifin.

 

I also think he has a distinct development advantage over his similarly-talented first-round peers, in that he is being developed Properly rather than being rushed to the NHL.  The only one of the lot who currently looks like they Belong in the NHL, imho, is Werensky.  The rest are having mild offensive success but mostly struggling.  If the Flames continue with their approach and Don't Rush him to their lineup, I think we're looking at a star/superstar in the making.

 

He is the Best skater in Stockton by far, his passes are incredible, and I could go on but the Number One thing I have to say is that he has made Massive Defensive strides over the summer.  He went from being Stockton's biggest liability last year, to their Most Reliable player, imho, this year.

 

And he's putting up points.  He's putting up points like No Other 19 year old defenceman in the AHL (of which only 2 exist):

http://www.eliteprospects.com/league.php?season=2016&leagueid=AHL&nation=&sort=u20

 

He's Well ahead of Jacob Larsson (first rounder in same draft) by Every imaginable measure.

 

Anyway, that's what I think we might have right now.  A guy who, in a re-draft, would go top-10, right behind Werensky, as the 2nd best defenceman taken in 2015.

 

Let's hope that's the case, and let's hope he doesn't get rushed.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm not holding my breath, if only because I don't want to get my expectations up. He has a lot of talent, I'll wait to see how he does with NHL D first. I like the pick and the player though.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

He is putting up points, as is the entire team. But scouting reports are mixed. I hope he makes it. He is exactly in the mold of an NHL defender today. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

As usual JJ I think you need to pump the breaks. I get there is reason to be excited but there is no way a draft changes that much in his short if time. Keep in mind too Larsson made the Ducks out of camp, he is a very good dman. 

 

He is progressing so that's encouraging and obviously the skating talent alone should get him in the NHL. However his defensive game still needs a lot of work and he remains very raw from what I've seen and heard down in Stockton. Flames are developing him the right way but I think this is going to take another 2 seasons before we know what we have. I still think his upside is gojng to be limited by his size, frame and lack of a big shot so I'm not sure we are sitting on a gold mine but if all goes perfect, you probably have TJ Brodie 2.0. That is asking a lot thought. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, cross16 said:

As usual JJ I think you need to pump the breaks.

 

Just like old times, hey cross?

 

Well, sometimes you're right, and sometimes you're not, when you tell me to pump the breaks.   I've shot very high this time, putting him above some very talented D-men.   I am actually surprised you specifically pointed out Larsson out of all the D I put him above.

 

Whether I've got the ranking right or wrong, what I can tell you is that your assessment of him  taking another 2 AHL seasons, is Equally extreme, in the other direction.

 

He will most  likely make the Flames lineup next season, unless his play drops off and the flames do something drastic to shore up their defensive situation.   That, to me, is a best case scenario for his development.   There is a very real possibility that they call him up sooner. 

 

Even now, he is probably the most ready in Stockton to transition to the NHL and we're just a dozen games in with his play improving at a much faster pace than all his peers down there.   I would HOPE that the Flames are sensible enough to LET him develop down there this season, rather than pull a desperation move and call him up in a last ditch effort to make the playoffs or something along those lines.

 

So my question for you cross....is:  

 

Despite our differences, are we At Least aligned that he should Stay in the AHL for the remainder of this season?

 

And if the Flames call him up early, are you going to be with me on how ridiculous that would be, or will you do a 180 and support the move when/if it happens?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, jjgallow said:

 

Just like old times, hey cross?

 

Well, sometimes you're right, and sometimes you're not, when you tell me to pump the breaks.   I've shot very high this time, putting him above some very talented D-men.   I am actually surprised you specifically pointed out Larsson out of all the D I put him above.

 

Whether I've got the ranking right or wrong, what I can tell you is that your assessment of him  taking another 2 AHL seasons, is Equally extreme, in the other direction.

 

He will most  likely make the Flames lineup next season, unless his play drops off and the flames do something drastic to shore up their defensive situation.   That, to me, is a best case scenario for his development.   There is a very real possibility that they call him up sooner. 

 

Even now, he is probably the most ready in Stockton to transition to the NHL and we're just a dozen games in with his play improving at a much faster pace than all his peers down there.   I would HOPE that the Flames are sensible enough to LET him develop down there this season, rather than pull a desperation move and call him up in a last ditch effort to make the playoffs or something along those lines.

 

So my question for you cross....is:  

 

Despite our differences, are we At Least aligned that he should Stay in the AHL for the remainder of this season?

 

And if the Flames call him up early, are you going to be with me on how ridiculous that would be, or will you do a 180 and support the move when/if it happens?

 

I only pointed out Larsson because you mentioned him. Could go through others but it was a quick response and I don't think its necessary. The principle point is the value of players doens't change that drastically in this short of time, that is all. 

 

I thikn you are underrating how much work his defensive game needs. If you read anything about Kylington, even stuff about his positive start this year, its always noted that his defensive game is still quite raw. I don't think you can play in the NHL as a dman with a raw defensive game and I also don't think that develops in 2 years. Maybe he makes it next year but I dont' believe he will and i'm not looking for that, that is rushing him IMO.I don't thikn he is as close as you do and I don't think the Flames do either. Honeslty, i don't even think he is on their radar for a call up save for a few games at the end of the year if they were out of the playoffs. If injury hit and they needed someone they would call up Morrison, Culkin or wotherspoon first. those guys are more NHL ready IMO. 

 

but yes I do thikn he should stay in the A and  yes I will agree with you if the called up him up for an extended period of time. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
30 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

Cross, I think that BT has specifically mentioned Kylington as being close.  Take that for what it's worth.  

BT also gave Grossman a contract... for what it's worth.

 

(Also, for what it's worth, it sucks mods can't get likes. I've wanted to give some out for other things.)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, xstrike said:

BT also gave Grossman a contract... for what it's worth.

 

(Also, for what it's worth, it sucks mods can't get likes. I've wanted to give some out for other things.)

There is a cap reason for giving grossman a contract. Which is it gives us full value on smid if he's put on LTIR. On another note grossman has a couple games where he has not looked great but I didn't mind him against St. Louis.

 

I think debrusk brought it up last night on the broadcast sometimes you need to get guys out of the press box to play once in a while. It helps the team feel like everyone is contributing. I can see that if I went to work, and someone was always sitting on the side eating popcorn it wouldn't make me feel good.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I get the cap argument for sure on Grossman but it was 500K. I don't think you sign Grossman if you thought you had a few dmen in the AHL that were close.

 

That's not a negative in the slighest either. Kylington is 19 and Anderson is 20. They shouldn't be that close. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, travel_dude said:

Cross, I think that BT has specifically mentioned Kylington as being close.  Take that for what it's worth.  

 

Not saying I agree/disagree, but I didn't hear this and it runs coutner to all the buzz i've heard on Kylington. Whenever i've heard them speak about him they've talked about taking their time but they are encouraged. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
21 minutes ago, cross16 said:

 

Not saying I agree/disagree, but I didn't hear this and it runs coutner to all the buzz i've heard on Kylington. Whenever i've heard them speak about him they've talked about taking their time but they are encouraged. 

 

To be fair, BT and Burke talked about this the end of the season for a player they felt was close to making the club.  Close could be one or two years.  In pre-season, I would actually say that Morrison played more NHL ready than the rest of the Heat D-men.  That's just what I saw.

 

The Heat are bleeding goals left and right, but Kylington is a team plus/minus leader at plus 10.  The closest player is Klimchuk at plus 9.  You always want a offensive D-man to play defense at a high level before bringing him into the NHL.  Nurse is a prime example.  There is no reason to rush him.  If he is ready by next camp, that means he is the best 5 or 6 guys on the ice.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
17 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

To be fair, BT and Burke talked about this the end of the season for a player they felt was close to making the club.  Close could be one or two years.  In pre-season, I would actually say that Morrison played more NHL ready than the rest of the Heat D-men.  That's just what I saw.

 

The Heat are bleeding goals left and right, but Kylington is a team plus/minus leader at plus 10.  The closest player is Klimchuk at plus 9.  You always want a offensive D-man to play defense at a high level before bringing him into the NHL.  Nurse is a prime example.  There is no reason to rush him.  If he is ready by next camp, that means he is the best 5 or 6 guys on the ice.  

 

7th lowest in the leage in Goals against and 12th in Goals against per game. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
41 minutes ago, cross16 said:

 

7th lowest in the leage in Goals against and 12th in Goals against per game. 

Have you seen the score of recent games?

W 7-5

L 6-5

L 4-3

W 6-1

W 7-3

 

Considering all the GA, it's nice that Kylington is plus 10.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
44 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

Have you seen the score of recent games?

W 7-5

L 6-5

L 4-3

W 6-1

W 7-3

 

Considering all the GA, it's nice that Kylington is plus 10.  

 

Similar story to the Flames, Stocktons PK isn't very good  6 of those goals were on the PK. 

end of the day if you are top half in the league in goals against you arn't "Bleeding goals"

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, AlbertaBoy12 said:

There is a cap reason for giving grossman a contract. Which is it gives us full value on smid if he's put on LTIR. On another note grossman has a couple games where he has not looked great but I didn't mind him against St. Louis.

 

I think debrusk brought it up last night on the broadcast sometimes you need to get guys out of the press box to play once in a while. It helps the team feel like everyone is contributing. I can see that if I went to work, and someone was always sitting on the side eating popcorn it wouldn't make me feel good.

You couldn't bring in a 14th forward making little money like Hathaway or Vey instead?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 minutes ago, xstrike said:

You couldn't bring in a 14th forward making little money like Hathaway or Vey instead?

 

Suprisingly, No. With Grossman signed the Flames had 8K in cap room. Yes $8,000 dollars. Grossman counts 575K and no one else in the organization is less than 600K. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, cross16 said:

 

Suprisingly, No. With Grossman signed the Flames had 8K in cap room. Yes $8,000 dollars. Grossman counts 575K and no one else in the organization is less than 600K. 

 

smart agent?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, jjgallow said:

 

smart agent?

Or just common sense GM, who said hmm we need approx this much to get full use of smid on LTIR we should probably sign someone who can play a little bit and a good locker room presence.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, AlbertaBoy12 said:

Or just common sense GM, who said hmm we need approx this much to get full use of smid on LTIR we should probably sign someone who can play a little bit and a good locker room presence.

I still think a 14th forward would've been better than an 8th defenseman. didn't a pk specialist from the Canucks tryout with us? might be nice to have him instead given how many penalties we take and how bad we are on the pk.

 

Getting back to the topic, when do we know Kylington is ready? Pre-season success doesn't always translate into regular season success as the flames have shown. how do we know his defence is nhl ready other than playing him in the NHL?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 11/6/2016 at 11:03 PM, cross16 said:

 

but yes I do thikn he should stay in the A and  yes I will agree with you if the called up him up for an extended period of time

 

Thank you cross.   Interested in the "extended period of time" part, because:

 

Sure, if they call him up now for a couple games, he'll go right back down.

 

But 20-25 games from now, it may be a different story if he keeps this up.   What if the Flames decide to "evaluate the situation", decide he's NHL ready, and keep him up?   Would you be ok with  that?

 

I wouldn't be, and the reason why is simple (xstrike, this also addresses your question imho):

 

          Role players graduate to the NHL, when they're "NHL Ready".

          Projected stars, or core players, should graduate to the NHL when the AHL no longer seems appropriate.

 

In other words, it is a waste of development time to have a potential star player battling out in the NHL on the fourth line because they're "NHL Ready".   They need development time in a core role.

 

Players should develop in roles that makes sense for them.

 

 

  • An example of where we went wrong with this:  Backlund.  For all the great things about Backlund, he had the skill to be a 50 goal scorer in this league but we developed him like a plug.   And he became just that:  And Extremely, extremely, amazing plug.  After re-inventing his entire game, and starting from scratch, wasting years of development, because that's the only spot we had open in the NHL at that time.

 

  • An example of where we went right with this:  Not many.  Usually, it's by accident, forced on us.   Like Gaudreau.  
  •          You could argue Gio/Brodie, but they were more just slow developers, which is why we didn't promote them too soon.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, jjgallow said:

 

But 20-25 games from now, it may be a different story if he keeps this up.   What if the Flames decide to "evaluate the situation", decide he's NHL ready, and keep him up?   Would you be ok with  that?

 

 

I wouldn't be happy with it but at the same time i'm not watching him day to day in the A so i'm not qualified to make a call on that. I wouldn't like the optics of it and I would question it but if they decide he is ready then I would turst in their judgement yes, but obviusly would be very upset if they were wrong and he floudners. 

 

At the end of the day I have faith in Treliving and co's ability to assess a prospects ability to be ready, especially consdiering I don't get to watch these guys play I just look at numers and game reports and that is not sufficent to give a qualified answer. I don't disagree with any of your theory JJ, and actually agree with all of it, but i'm going to assume I probably have more fait in Treliving and co then you do ;)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, cross16 said:

 

I wouldn't be happy with it but at the same time i'm not watching him day to day in the A so i'm not qualified to make a call on that. I wouldn't like the optics of it and I would question it but if they decide he is ready then I would turst in their judgement yes, but obviusly would be very upset if they were wrong and he floudners. 

 

At the end of the day I have faith in Treliving and co's ability to assess a prospects ability to be ready, especially consdiering I don't get to watch these guys play I just look at numers and game reports and that is not sufficent to give a qualified answer. I don't disagree with any of your theory JJ, and actually agree with all of it, but i'm going to assume I probably have more fait in Treliving and co then you do ;)

 

I can be the bad cop then :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

In what is a bit of a suprise, it's being reported that Kylington has been invited to the Swedish Selection Camp for the World Juniors. I say surprise because he was not invited to the last 2 and Sweden tends to favor its "guys". Either way, very good news for him.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...