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51 minutes ago, zima said:

So how many here actually believe Fox will sign with this team? I would love it if he did but with his rights only belonging to him in the future will we trade his rights or do we lose him in hopes of signing him? The way his credibility is climbing how many teams are already calling his management team offering them the world to sign with them? I know by rights teams are not allowed to but since when has that stopped teams from whispering in the little birdies ear. After losing Hickey im a little worried about our chances with Fox. 

 

He will probably sign with the team next summer.  No reason to believe otherwise.  

We didn't "lose" Hickey.  BT chose to trade an asset that was dropping in the depth chart.  

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Bottom line, I don't see an issue here yet.   His play is accelerating, and he doesn't have Gaudreau's size issues, so yes...there is a concern that he could be NHL ready well before his senior year.    But I could be wrong on that.   And even in that case, it would give the Flames the upper hand.  Because if he wants the big money sooner, he has to go through the Flames to do it.

 

 

47 minutes ago, zima said:

So how many here actually believe Fox will sign with this team? I would love it if he did but with his rights only belonging to him in the future will we trade his rights or do we lose him in hopes of signing him?

 

It was only a few months back that I was kind of scoffed at for creating a thread on him.   I really think he could become the real thing.  But there's no panic yet imho.

 

47 minutes ago, zima said:

The way his credibility is climbing how many teams are already calling his management team offering them the world to sign with them?

 

Unlikely.  Not unprecedented (I believe we lost a first rounder in the past who also may have engaged in these activities).    However it is against a litany of rules with steep consequences for all parties.

 

47 minutes ago, zima said:

I know by rights teams are not allowed to but since when has that stopped teams from whispering in the little birdies ear.

 

Again, after Erixon, we can't say it doesn't happen.  But it's unusual.   And not likely this early.  More of a 3rd year, 4th year kinda thing.

 

47 minutes ago, zima said:

After losing Hickey i'm a little worried about our chances with Fox. 

 

Please explain.  My understanding is that we traded Hickey for Mike Smith.  Do you believe they were forced?   IMHO I hated the trade, but Hickey is really not a major piece.  So it didn't seem like a forced move.  Unless you have more info I don't think there's an issue here.    

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3 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

We didn't "lose" Hickey.

 

Agreed.

 

3 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 BT chose to trade an asset that was dropping in the depth chart.  

 

Not so sure. Questionable trade.  Either way I agree that Hickey and Fox are not comparable.

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35 minutes ago, jjgallow said:

 

Agreed.

 

 

Not so sure. Questionable trade.  Either way I agree that Hickey and Fox are not comparable.

 

The questionable part was using it on a 35 year old goalie.  

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5 hours ago, zima said:

So how many here actually believe Fox will sign with this team? I would love it if he did but with his rights only belonging to him in the future will we trade his rights or do we lose him in hopes of signing him? The way his credibility is climbing how many teams are already calling his management team offering them the world to sign with them? I know by rights teams are not allowed to but since when has that stopped teams from whispering in the little birdies ear. After losing Hickey im a little worried about our chances with Fox. 

I am getting a little annoyed at the suggestion that every college prospect we have is going to jump ship before signing with us. It is a rare occurrence. 

 

The college guys are there for education not the ability to wait it out and choose an NHL team.

 

Zima few NHL teams would chance a tampering penalty. None are calling his agent/management team while his rights are held by another team.

 

We traded Hickey.. How do you figure we lost him? It was not anything like this. Hickey played in Alberta and showed no signs of dissatisfaction here.

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3 minutes ago, DirtyDeeds said:

I am getting a little annoyed at the suggestion that every college prospect we have is going to jump ship before signing with us. It is a rare occurrence. 

 

The college guys are there for education not the ability to wait it out and choose an NHL team.

 

Zima few NHL teams would chance a tampering penalty. None are calling his agent/management team while his rights are held by another team.

 

We traded Hickey.. How do you figure we lost him? It was not anything like this. Hickey played in Alberta and showed no signs of dissatisfaction here.

Agreed. There is risk, but there is with every player. Good players who are unhappy with their situation can request to be traded and many teams will comply knowing that it is better to get 100% from another player than 80% from an unhappy one.

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2 hours ago, DirtyDeeds said:

I am getting a little annoyed at the suggestion that every college prospect we have is going to jump ship before signing with us. It is a rare occurrence. 

 

Annoyed funny I thought this forum was for discussion of possibilities it's not like this hasn't happened in the pass.  

 

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18 minutes ago, zima said:

Annoyed funny I thought this forum was for discussion of possibilities it's not like this hasn't happened in the pass.  

 

 

ok...you're right, it's a place for discussion of possibilities but I think you also have to respect why some would be annoyed.

 

It happened with Erixon, under different management.   And it WAS bad.

 

But Erixon wasn't ready for the NHL.   

 

This is a different situation where, if Adam Fox becomes what some feel he will be, he may very well be ready for the NHL Before his senior year.  In which case, the Flames hold all the cards.   He can only start his NHL career early either through the Flames, or through a very lucrative trade for the Flames.

 

Also, the Flames are an attractive place for prospects now.   They weren't in Erixon's time.  (Erixon was still stupid not to forsee the pending opportunity there).

 

Also, Erixon.   That ended in disaster.  Nobody wants that.  No player wants that, no team wants that.  Ditto with Schultz's ordeal.

 

No, I don't see a significant risk here.   Could the rues be improved?  Maybe.  But in this situation I think we are ok.

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1 hour ago, jjgallow said:

 

ok...you're right, it's a place for discussion of possibilities but I think you also have to respect why some would be annoyed.

 

It happened with Erixon, under different management.   And it WAS bad.

 

But Erixon wasn't ready for the NHL.   

 

This is a different situation where, if Adam Fox becomes what some feel he will be, he may very well be ready for the NHL Before his senior year.  In which case, the Flames hold all the cards.   He can only start his NHL career early either through the Flames, or through a very lucrative trade for the Flames.

 

Also, the Flames are an attractive place for prospects now.   They weren't in Erixon's time.  (Erixon was still stupid not to forsee the pending opportunity there).

 

Also, Erixon.   That ended in disaster.  Nobody wants that.  No player wants that, no team wants that.  Ditto with Schultz's ordeal.

 

No, I don't see a significant risk here.   Could the rues be improved?  Maybe.  But in this situation I think we are ok.

I think we traded him to New York didn't we? And then he sucked, so they traded him. Last I heard, he was waived I believe. Not a bright lad. Has a lot of self-confidence though.

 

Correction. I see that he is a free agent. 

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I agree that the "he could bolt" dialogue for every college draft pick does get old. But in this case I think there is merit. If your Fox you are facing a team with Giordano, Hamilton, Brodie, and Hamonic signed with a large number of high profile players at the position. 

 

That said, it's too early for the discussion. The Flames are the only team that can sign him next year and they are the only team that can offer to burn a year of the ELC. Plus, if we don't see him signing we can trade him. 

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Im not just talking about Erixon were not the only team that has had player move to another team because they can or didn't want to be with the team that drafted them. Mike rielly, Jimmy Vesy ,shuilts, Hays.  I point at Fox mainly because he is a high quality D and I think will become very good as the next 2 season. I also know he can't get paid any more any where else except for bonuses. But what does concern me is the fact he is American and has the right to move if he desires.  

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51 minutes ago, zima said:

Im not just talking about Erixon were not the only team that has had player move to another team because they can or didn't want to be with the team that drafted them. Mike rielly, Jimmy Vesy ,shuilts, Hays.  I point at Fox mainly because he is a high quality D and I think will become very good as the next 2 season. I also know he can't get paid any more any where else except for bonuses. But what does concern me is the fact he is American and has the right to move if he desires.  

So why didn't JH bolt too? if the risk is so high then why not him too? He is american and was in the college ranks.

 

Every year a whole bunch of college players jump to the NHL mostly to the team that drafted them. Why is it you(those that proclaim they will bolt) can barely come up with a handful of those that held out and bolted to another team???

 

I mean we are talking hundreds of college players over a long period of time and you can only name a few.... The odds are minuscule. Don't bet your mortgage on him bolting..  

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12 hours ago, zima said:

Im not just talking about Erixon were not the only team that has had player move to another team because they can or didn't want to be with the team that drafted them. Mike rielly, Jimmy Vesy ,shuilts, Hays.  I point at Fox mainly because he is a high quality D and I think will become very good as the next 2 season. I also know he can't get paid any more any where else except for bonuses. But what does concern me is the fact he is American and has the right to move if he desires.  

 

Strangely enough, we have never lost a college player to free agency.  We have signed a more than a few that were undrafted.  JH could have picked any team that wanted him.  Janko could have had a NHL roster spot and playing time offered.  Perhaps drafted players are treated well enough by the Flames that they know where they stand.  I have never heard anything negative from any college draftee about the Flames.  We can justify the Hickey trade by saying he might have bolted, since he wanted to finish his education.  But that is just an opinion.  No proof to that at all.

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I hope your all right Im usually wrong I'm ok with that I just have a strange feeling this guy is going to be hard to keep. We have so many top D and no guaranty for a spot for him although it looks like he can push his way on but there are teams out that will guaranty him a spot. If we sign him before his last yr then were golden if not then he will be looking for greener pastures. Im not trying to annoy by the way just making some conversation on this player and his options good or bad.

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Adam Fox was a Freshman. He has two more College years to make his case. When he is ready, we hope we have a succession plan for Giordano. That isn't saying he is it, but there will be spots to fight for. 

 

I expect Gio to be a 2nd pair by then. Maybe a 3rd pair, but hopefully not.

 

What if he surpasses Brodie? Brodie took a step backwards this year, I hope he can get back to his play the years before. 

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1 hour ago, travel_dude said:

 

Strangely enough, we have never lost a college player to free agency.  We have signed a more than a few that were undrafted.  JH could have picked any team that wanted him.  Janko could have had a NHL roster spot and playing time offered.  Perhaps drafted players are treated well enough by the Flames that they know where they stand.  I have never heard anything negative from any college draftee about the Flames.  We can justify the Hickey trade by saying he might have bolted, since he wanted to finish his education.  But that is just an opinion.  No proof to that at all.

I look at the ARZ deal and see the Flames dealing from a position of strength LHSD prospects. Fox and Andersson are we really have for RHSD in the pipeline, I don't think it unreasonable that BT could trade even a few of our current defensemen in a few years.

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36 minutes ago, zima said:

I hope your all right Im usually wrong I'm ok with that I just have a strange feeling this guy is going to be hard to keep. We have so many top D and no guaranty for a spot for him although it looks like he can push his way on but there are teams out that will guaranty him a spot. If we sign him before his last yr then were golden if not then he will be looking for greener pastures. Im not trying to annoy by the way just making some conversation on this player and his options good or bad.

You are right about one thing and that is he has the option. Whether he uses it will remain to be seen. I think he sits in a very good competitive spot to earn a position here in Calgary.

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On 2017-08-06 at 10:27 AM, zima said:

So how many here actually believe Fox will sign with this team? I would love it if he did but with his rights only belonging to him in the future will we trade his rights or do we lose him in hopes of signing him? The way his credibility is climbing how many teams are already calling his management team offering them the world to sign with them? I know by rights teams are not allowed to but since when has that stopped teams from whispering in the little birdies ear. After losing Hickey im a little worried about our chances with Fox. 

 

None. Not unless they want to risk fine or loss of draft picks as thst would be a crystal clear case of tampering. Not to mention there is nothing financial more those teams can offer thst the flames can't as all ELC have the same bonus options. 

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3 minutes ago, cross16 said:

 

None. Not unless they want to risk fine or loss of draft picks as thst would be a crystal clear case of tampering. Not to mention there is nothing financial more those teams can offer thst the flames can't as all ELC have the same bonus options. 

Agreed. Every team has their picks, tampering with any is a huge penalty no team would risk.

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52 minutes ago, MAC331 said:

You are right about one thing and that is he has the option. Whether he uses it will remain to be seen. I think he sits in a very good competitive spot to earn a position here in Calgary.

 

A pretty poor option at that.  Potentially, he could sign in a year and start playing pro hockey, whether he makes the NHL right out of the gate.  That's still 2 years sooner.

If he's that good, he will make the NHL on the Flames.  

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15 hours ago, zima said:

Im not just talking about Erixon were not the only team that has had player move to another team because they can or didn't want to be with the team that drafted them. Mike rielly, Jimmy Vesy ,shuilts, Hays.  I point at Fox mainly because he is a high quality D and I think will become very good as the next 2 season. I also know he can't get paid any more any where else except for bonuses. But what does concern me is the fact he is American and has the right to move if he desires.  

 

Over 200 players get drafted every year and I'd say at least a third of those probably wind up college. So going back 10 years that probably be over 700 potential players who could have walked as a UFA and you can come up with 4 who exercised their option. 2 of which don't technically quality as Schultz and Reilly used a different loophole to get out after their 3rd year and fox can't do that. 

 

See why it shouldn't be condiered a big deal?

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Hey I'm glad you all believe he will stay true to his Draft team like I said before I do as well but just have a feeling he will not.

 

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40 minutes ago, zima said:

Hey I'm glad you all believe he will stay true to his Draft team like I said before I do as well but just have a feeling he will not.

 

 

A bit early to worry about such a thing, don't you think?  3 years away if he was to consider it.  He wants to play pro hockey any earlier and his only choice has to be with the Flames  

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It's a fair worry given the depth and age of our D in both our system and on the NHL team. Especially considering what just happened with Hickey. But it's at least a year early to worry too much about it.

 

The Flames are the only team that can get him in early. They are also the only team that can burn a year of his ELC. Plus they can trade him if needed. 

 

Prospects take the 4 year free agency out all of the time. But top prospects rarely do. 

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