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Cowtownguy

Legalizing marijuana

29 posts in this topic

Ottawa announced today plans to legalize marijuana. I don't really care about the issue too much myself, but I am happy that people will not be given criminal records for personal consumption anymore. It seems like the right thing to do. I see a lot of concern about driving high. That seems like a bogus issue to me as I assume that the law will not encourage more people to use the stuff. It will just make it legal to do so. Living in Calgary, it seems to me everyone already drives high.

 

I wonder what other people's ideas are on legalizing pot.

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Legalization it's really just another word for legislation and regulation.  It's not going to mean what pot smokers think it means.

 

Like, am I going to be able to walk into 7-Eleven and buy Purple Indigo?  White Widow?  Don't think so.  Even in Amsterdam where weed is legal, you can only openly buy the weak stuff and who the hell wants that crap other than tourists.

 

BC bud is great but once it gets commercialized, growers will need to be licensed and the THC levels will be capped at something ridiculously small.  Yet, since it will be mass produced, is going to be cheap and that's going to put the private growers out of business. 

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7 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

Legalization it's really just another word for legislation and regulation.  It's not going to mean what pot smokers think it means.

 

Like, am I going to be able to walk into 7-Eleven and buy Purple Indigo?  White Widow?  Don't think so.  Even in Amsterdam where weed is legal, you can only openly buy the weak stuff and who the hell wants that crap other than tourists.

 

BC bud is great but once it gets commercialized, growers will need to be licensed and the THC levels will be capped at something ridiculously small.  Yet, since it will be mass produced, is going to be cheap and that's going to put the private growers out of business. 

Never thought of the federal government regulating THC levels. You might well be correct. When Loblaws bought out Shoppers, my assumption was that they wanted control over the sale of the stuff. Someone is going to make bank on this.

 

I find the media interesting when it comes to this matter. Talk about your biased reporting. They seem to have just discovered marijuana and are talking about driving while high, how children are going to be at risk, etc. etc. I find the media rather sickening at times.

 

I find it interesting how marijuana and alcohol are treated so differently by people generally. If I say I am going to the liquor store to snag a 15 pack of beer, not much of a reaction. If I say I am going to the head shop to buy a big bag of dope, people are going to giggle big time. Why is that? 

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Would be interesting how it makes things different with the quality of the product. Will it suck or be good? Who knows. I always found arrests with possession of weed or weed related crimes kinda silly anyway.

 

As for driving, since it's illegal to drink and drive over a certain limit. I'm sure laws will pass in the same kind of way. Being under of any influence while driving is pretty irresponsible. 

 

It'd open business and bring in money but where the money goes will be more interesting to me. Bringing in money to help the taxpayers... pfhhhbbbbttt.

 

 

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1 hour ago, Cowtownguy said:

Never thought of the federal government regulating THC levels. You might well be correct. When Loblaws bought out Shoppers, my assumption was that they wanted control over the sale of the stuff. Someone is going to make bank on this.

 

I find the media interesting when it comes to this matter. Talk about your biased reporting. They seem to have just discovered marijuana and are talking about driving while high, how children are going to be at risk, etc. etc. I find the media rather sickening at times.

 

I find it interesting how marijuana and alcohol are treated so differently by people generally. If I say I am going to the liquor store to snag a 15 pack of beer, not much of a reaction. If I say I am going to the head shop to buy a big bag of dope, people are going to giggle big time. Why is that? 

Social stigma.

Should wipeout welfare. "Dude, $15/hr for your horticultural skills, LEGALLY".

Of course I'm being facetious. BC will eventually complain about transfer payments, the usual stuff lol.

I'm going to corner the market on vending machines and partner up with the Doritos people.

Think of the economic opportunities!

Peeps, you seem to be taking it personally, lol.

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10 hours ago, Cowtownguy said:

Never thought of the federal government regulating THC levels. You might well be correct. When Loblaws bought out Shoppers, my assumption was that they wanted control over the sale of the stuff. Someone is going to make bank on this.

 

I find the media interesting when it comes to this matter. Talk about your biased reporting. They seem to have just discovered marijuana and are talking about driving while high, how children are going to be at risk, etc. etc. I find the media rather sickening at times.

 

I find it interesting how marijuana and alcohol are treated so differently by people generally. If I say I am going to the liquor store to snag a 15 pack of beer, not much of a reaction. If I say I am going to the head shop to buy a big bag of dope, people are going to giggle big time. Why is that? 

 

Ya, talking marijuana carries stigma.  If I was to tell the story about that one time i downed a 6-pack in 35-minutes... who cares.  I lived in Vancouver for 3 years so i'm pretty much desensitized to pot.  I've joined the locals for some fun as well on several occasions.  I'm pretty sure 7 of 10 people i met there had smoked pot at least one time during their life and i met many who were regulars.

 

About THC, how will they categorize hash which can have THC up to 40%?  Is that going to be legalized as well?  Hash is crazy.  There's no way anyone can drive when they're on hash.  In fact, there's no way anyone can even hold their head up for 10 seconds at a time on hash.  But that's one extreme.  THC at 10% is hardly going to cause any problems for drivers especially after an hour or so.  It's like having one beer and then driving an hour later.

 

But sure, let's have zero tolerance.  I'm all for it.  Which means for those who want to legalize pot, they are going to have more police looking out for people who are driving high when the police likely wouldn't have been looking that closely before in the past.

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9 hours ago, conundrumed said:

Peeps, you seem to be taking it personally, lol.

 

Because i think supporters of marijuana legalization isn't getting the full picture.  It's actually fine the way things are right now.  Once it's legal, then comes taxes, product testing/approvals, limited licences issued by the government, and all that nuisance.  Recreational users may think it's a symbol of social acceptance, like as if they can now blaze up in a restaurant like smoking a regular cigarette, except that's banned virtually everywhere now too.  

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2 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

Because i think supporters of marijuana legalization isn't getting the full picture.  It's actually fine the way things are right now.  Once it's legal, then comes taxes, product testing/approvals, limited licences issued by the government, and all that nuisance.  Recreational users may think it's a symbol of social acceptance, like as if they can now blaze up in a restaurant like smoking a regular cigarette, except that's banned virtually everywhere now too.  

But alternatively, legalizing it removes a big chunk of change from the black market, and we all know who they are.

I agree thc levels may be controlled, but the growing methods are too, which is very desirable.

It's like the US' prohibition of alcohol atm.

Empires are built.

The empires being built in the marijuana industry are not desirable ones.

Legalize it, stigma will disappear with education and openness.

Pot is the least of the problem, so keep it away from the kitchen chemists by regulating it at all levels, or we'll have a full on epidemic.

I don't get the whole fentanyl thing, but it's obviously getting worse.

Back in my day we laced our pot with angel dust, kids these days..j/k

In the middle east, they smoke a lot of hash...could we have found the key to the cultural divide?

It's open and accepted, unless, of course, you're the only white guy, then it gets a little complicated. lol

 

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Repealing the prohibition of cannabis will not hurt the black market unless the retail price is under $5.00 per gram.

 

As all of the legal LPs (licensed producers) and illegal dispensaries continue to sell for up to $14.00 per gram..............

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12 hours ago, conundrumed said:

But alternatively, legalizing it removes a big chunk of change from the black market, and we all know who they are.

I agree thc levels may be controlled, but the growing methods are too, which is very desirable.

It's like the US' prohibition of alcohol atm.

Empires are built.

The empires being built in the marijuana industry are not desirable ones.

Legalize it, stigma will disappear with education and openness.

Pot is the least of the problem, so keep it away from the kitchen chemists by regulating it at all levels, or we'll have a full on epidemic.

I don't get the whole fentanyl thing, but it's obviously getting worse.

Back in my day we laced our pot with angel dust, kids these days..j/k

In the middle east, they smoke a lot of hash...could we have found the key to the cultural divide?

It's open and accepted, unless, of course, you're the only white guy, then it gets a little complicated. lol

 

 

Maybe i'm just not a fan of more government.  We will get taxed to fund these federal and local branches of supervisors.  When the taxes come in for the marijuana, they will be spent on other things, not to self fund the program itself per se.  It's just how government does business to jack more tax dollars from the average Joe.

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But would it stimulate economic growth and create jobs?

I agree with you, but think if the tax dollars could be ear-marked for something like schools/university tuitions then maybe that would be a fair compromise?

A lot of our schools pretty much look like old prisons, I don't understand why we continue to build schools with a 1940 mentality.

 

On another note, I'm sure the lawyers are licking their chops over issues like industry drug-testing for THC. The impaired driving thing is too funny, really pushing that down our throats. Anyone know what thc level would constitute impaired driving? Have they even legislated that? And where's the research?

DUI is pretty serious, I'd hope it's not a judgement call by a cop. But it does appear to be.

 

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9 minutes ago, conundrumed said:

But would it stimulate economic growth and create jobs?

I agree with you, but think if the tax dollars could be ear-marked for something like schools/university tuitions then maybe that would be a fair compromise?

A lot of our schools pretty much look like old prisons, I don't understand why we continue to build schools with a 1940 mentality.

 

On another note, I'm sure the lawyers are licking their chops over issues like industry drug-testing for THC. The impaired driving thing is too funny, really pushing that down our throats. Anyone know what thc level would constitute impaired driving? Have they even legislated that? And where's the research?

DUI is pretty serious, I'd hope it's not a judgement call by a cop. But it does appear to be.

 

They submitted how the testing would be done. (I believe I remember them saying it was an oral test.) I forget what the level was but I don't know the scale and the figure sounded low. Stiff fines for driving with impaired via stoned too. Increasing fines each time charged and found guilty with jail time after a few times  caught.

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36 minutes ago, conundrumed said:

But would it stimulate economic growth and create jobs?

I agree with you, but think if the tax dollars could be ear-marked for something like schools/university tuitions then maybe that would be a fair compromise?

A lot of our schools pretty much look like old prisons, I don't understand why we continue to build schools with a 1940 mentality.

 

On another note, I'm sure the lawyers are licking their chops over issues like industry drug-testing for THC. The impaired driving thing is too funny, really pushing that down our throats. Anyone know what thc level would constitute impaired driving? Have they even legislated that? And where's the research?

DUI is pretty serious, I'd hope it's not a judgement call by a cop. But it does appear to be.

 

 

Economic growth and job creation?  Depends who gets the license to grow... will it be all Ontario mega companies?  Will imports from South America be allowed since marijuana is now legal in Canada?  Where are the jobs locally if they just put this stuff on the shelves of 7-Eleven?  

 

On the contrary, i know a lot of "friends" in Vancouver who will be put "out of a job".  A big part of Vancouver's sad economy is black market export of BC Bud.  An entire industry could get wiped out.  We may eventually see a handful of corporations gobble up all the small guys.

 

But depends on the THC levels allowed under license.  Those growing the really good stuff on the black market may actually retain their clientele if the government comes in very low like 10%.  

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S. America isn't a requirement. No reason to import unless you're going to do a Bulldog Cafe in Amsterdam type thing.

You're friends from Lumby to Yahk, lol, can get back on the grid and stop living in fear. It's a trade off.

At the end of the day, if you want to tell me these are innocent one-off growers, yadayadayada, spare me.

They start with, "well it supplements my income with an extra $60,000/yr". Then by $120,000, then $180,000. "Hey I can set up a grow-op at your place".

Then the mob shows up. Now you are pretty mucho fucto.

If any of your "friends" have done it for 5 years, I'd be having a chat with them, "get your money and get out". Or they're already connected, which is lethal, no matter how long you live.

Yes. Yes. I used to have "friends" in Vancouver too.

Most got away, and it is exactly that.

2 run with a certain group of motorcycle enthusiasts. Great protection for me should I ever need it...fricking fricktards. Waiting for a judge to say: Your sentence is 15 minutes in a room with 4 of your old friends. For both of them.

I'm not this pretty by standing on the sidelines.

When they aren't in jail, they're in court....

 

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17 hours ago, The_People1 said:

 

Because i think supporters of marijuana legalization isn't getting the full picture.  It's actually fine the way things are right now.  Once it's legal, then comes taxes, product testing/approvals, limited licences issued by the government, and all that nuisance.  Recreational users may think it's a symbol of social acceptance, like as if they can now blaze up in a restaurant like smoking a regular cigarette, except that's banned virtually everywhere now too.  

It's not about being "loud" with marijuana and smoking it openly in public.. the whole idea is decriminalization. A drunk driver might get their license suspended while a weed smoker could very well go to jail. It's more a matter of people not having to lose their freedom over a natural substance or be forced to carry criminal records over some weed while alcohol continues to kill and destroy more lives than any other drug legal or not. 

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On 4/15/2017 at 6:45 PM, rickross said:

It's not about being "loud" with marijuana and smoking it openly in public.. the whole idea is decriminalization. A drunk driver might get their license suspended while a weed smoker could very well go to jail. It's more a matter of people not having to lose their freedom over a natural substance or be forced to carry criminal records over some weed while alcohol continues to kill and destroy more lives than any other drug legal or not. 

 

You do realize that DUI is a criminal offense, right.  Get one and you can kiss going to the USA good bye.  

So, it will be the same impact for DUI, whether it is weed or booze.  I would prefer to have neither behind the wheel.

Smoking weed is not gong to land you in prison, today or in July.  Possession is the only thing that gets you that now.  You would have to have quite a bit to end up in jail.

But, I digress.  I don't have an issue with the law or plans to make it legal.  I have issues without the social impact not being tackled first.  How do you enforce DUI other than by a blood test?  Will the first conviction of a DUI survive a constitutional (or other) legal challenge?  How does the use and inevitable accidents caused by its use affect insurance?

 

At least with booze, there was a long period of time that has allowed the courts to catch up with the politicians intent.  Not so much with weed. 

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1 hour ago, travel_dude said:

 

You do realize that DUI is a criminal offense, right.  Get one and you can kiss going to the USA good bye.  

So, it will be the same impact for DUI, whether it is weed or booze.  I would prefer to have neither behind the wheel.

Smoking weed is not gong to land you in prison, today or in July.  Possession is the only thing that gets you that now.  You would have to have quite a bit to end up in jail.

But, I digress.  I don't have an issue with the law or plans to make it legal.  I have issues without the social impact not being tackled first.  How do you enforce DUI other than by a blood test?  Will the first conviction of a DUI survive a constitutional (or other) legal challenge?  How does the use and inevitable accidents caused by its use affect insurance?

 

At least with booze, there was a long period of time that has allowed the courts to catch up with the politicians intent.  Not so much with weed. 

Of course I'm aware driving under the influence applies to weed as well.  U can have a car full of booze and be completely sober and have no issues, same scenario and those booze happen to be weed..it's a criminal offence. Obviously no one should operate a vehicle while intoxicated but DUI's haven't stopped drunk drivers from doing so. They'll have to get around the testing especially as weed remains in the system for months so there's going to be some challenges there. End of the day I'd still say cigarettes and alcohol have killed more ppl and destroyed more lives than any other drug. 

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23 minutes ago, rickross said:

Of course I'm aware driving under the influence applies to weed as well.  U can have a car full of booze and be completely sober and have no issues, same scenario and those booze happen to be weed..it's a criminal offence. Obviously no one should operate a vehicle while intoxicated but DUI's haven't stopped drunk drivers from doing so. They'll have to get around the testing especially as weed remains in the system for months so there's going to be some challenges there. End of the day I'd still say cigarettes and alcohol have killed more ppl and destroyed more lives than any other drug. 

Depends on the individual. I drink beer & smoke tobacco but am more clear headed than in the days I did recreational weed (which was much cleaner then).

Some people can't handle either but are the most likely to abuse both. I never drank before work but have seen people toke during breaks. Just because they don't smell it on your breath doesn't mean you aren't impared.

 

Whatever relaxation enhancer you choose do it when you have time off but be aware of how long the impairment lasts. Putting yourself or others in danger is never a good thing.

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1 minute ago, Flyerfan52 said:

Depends on the individual. I drink beer & smoke tobacco but am more clear headed than in the days I did recreational weed (which was much cleaner then).

Some people can't handle either but are the most likely to abuse both. I never drank before work but have seen people toke during breaks. Just because they don't smell it on your breath doesn't mean you aren't impared.

 

Whatever relaxation enhancer you choose do it when you have time off but be aware of how long the impairment lasts. Putting yourself or others in danger is never a good thing.

Yeah, i'm not referring to how the level of impairment it has on the individual but the ridiculous number of drunk drivers that murder people every year, sadly i'm sure almost everyone knows someone who's been killed or injured in a drunk driving incident. Also the impact of the cancers from both vices can't be ignored. I'm not saying smoking weed is better than cigarettes but atleast weed has some medicinal value. I wish people would apply the "everything in moderation" rule but excessive drinking and smoking are just too accessible and accepted for them not to be abused.

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3 minutes ago, rickross said:

Yeah, i'm not referring to how the level of impairment it has on the individual but the ridiculous number of drunk drivers that murder people every year, sadly i'm sure almost everyone knows someone who's been killed or injured in a drunk driving incident. Also the impact of the cancers from both vices can't be ignored. I'm not saying smoking weed is better than cigarettes but atleast weed has some medicinal value. I wish people would apply the "everything in moderation" rule but excessive drinking and smoking are just too accessible and accepted for them not to be abused.

Wrong! Even having residual smoke smell on your clothing sets off the anti-smoking crowd while we are forced to go far outside any establishment to partake of what is seen as a vice. Alcohol is only acceptable in limited settings (a drink with a meal or after paying a cover charge in an entertainment setting). There are even apartment management groups that forbid smoking in any of their buildings.

These days those of us that grew up in the days when smoking was acceptable are pariahs anywhere but our homes or those of friends that indulge as many of us still enjoy it.

As far as the alcohol there are many versions of impaired. I'd venture to say that those texting while walking are as much of a danger as someone driving after 1 drink as they step into traffic totally unaware of everything but what's on that little screen.

We can try to keep people from hurting themselves or others but we'd have to outlaw dang near everything.

 

BTW, in case you think I'm just anti weed I did my share in the day. I even sold it to keep my own costs down. I'll allow others their vice but hope it's taxed to the same degree as my vices (the ever popular "sin tax"). I don't see it as a gateway to stronger drugs any more than I see social drinking as a gateway to alcohol abuse. Heck, gambling has probably ruined more lives.

 

So, I leave responsibility with the individual. If you do anything (including over-eating) but only hurt yourself it's slow suicide but don't count on my sympathy. If quiting my smoking & drinking adds a few years to my life but makes me miserable (& those around me) it's not worth it IMO. I'd rather live 5 happy years than 10 miserable 1s.

 

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1 hour ago, Flyerfan52 said:

Wrong! Even having residual smoke smell on your clothing sets off the anti-smoking crowd while we are forced to go far outside any establishment to partake of what is seen as a vice. Alcohol is only acceptable in limited settings (a drink with a meal or after paying a cover charge in an entertainment setting). There are even apartment management groups that forbid smoking in any of their buildings.

These days those of us that grew up in the days when smoking was acceptable are pariahs anywhere but our homes or those of friends that indulge as many of us still enjoy it.

As far as the alcohol there are many versions of impaired. I'd venture to say that those texting while walking are as much of a danger as someone driving after 1 drink as they step into traffic totally unaware of everything but what's on that little screen.

We can try to keep people from hurting themselves or others but we'd have to outlaw dang near everything.

 

BTW, in case you think I'm just anti weed I did my share in the day. I even sold it to keep my own costs down. I'll allow others their vice but hope it's taxed to the same degree as my vices (the ever popular "sin tax"). I don't see it as a gateway to stronger drugs any more than I see social drinking as a gateway to alcohol abuse. Heck, gambling has probably ruined more lives.

 

So, I leave responsibility with the individual. If you do anything (including over-eating) but only hurt yourself it's slow suicide but don't count on my sympathy. If quiting my smoking & drinking adds a few years to my life but makes me miserable (& those around me) it's not worth it IMO. I'd rather live 5 happy years than 10 miserable 1s.

 

WRONG!!!  You can't deny that cigarettes and alcohol are the most accessible of any legal vice, you can buy them any and everywhere. They are engrained in culture whether it be movies, advertising or any social setting. Don't give me that nonsense that smokers are alienated or looked down upon in society the same way a weed smoker is. Boo hoo for not being able to pollute the lungs of those who choose to live healthier lifestyles, I don't' want to be unwillingly be forced to inhale 2nd hand smoke but don't pretend like smokers have less rights all of a sudden. Smokers did it to themselves, thats how powerful the addiction is. Lol..your talking like smokers are treated like a bunch of lepers! Smoking in public places is a purely selfish act, if you want to kill yourself no one is stopping you..but don't force your addiction upon others just because its convenient for you. I don't judge my friends because they smoke or drink but I do appreciate when they have to the decency to not blow their smoke in my face while i'm eating or enjoying a social setting.

 

Being distracted and being impaired are too different things, I get where you're trying to go with that but you can't really compare the too. Even if you did, you'd still find more people are killed from drunk drivers. 

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13 hours ago, rickross said:

Don't give me that nonsense that smokers are alienated or looked down upon in society the same way a weed smoker is.

 

Currently, recreational smoking of grass is illegal.  Has to do with the laws about possession.  There are no such laws about smoking cigs, as the only laws are for smoking in a non-smoking area, or selling cigs to kids.  Ok, I did miss the one about having cigs that didn't have the tax sticker on it.

 

2nd hand smoke is bad, if you happen to actually inhale it.  Walking by a guy smoking a cigarette outside isn't the same as someone blowing smoke in your face and you have to hold your breath or breathe some of it in.  And it's not the same as being in a car with your kids or your friends and they are forced to breathe it.  When I smoke outside, I do not blow it in the face of others, yet quite a few cough even if you are nowhere close.  Or you get the occasional snide comment and dirty looks.

 

Eventually, it will be a freedom to be able to smoke according to the same rules as smokers and vapers.  Except when you cross borders.  Or when you get in an accident and your insurance doesn't cover it. Or when you are given a DUI.  I don't bother with it anymore, and have no present desire to use it for medicinal purposes.

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1 hour ago, travel_dude said:

 

Currently, recreational smoking of grass is illegal.  Has to do with the laws about possession.  There are no such laws about smoking cigs, as the only laws are for smoking in a non-smoking area, or selling cigs to kids.  Ok, I did miss the one about having cigs that didn't have the tax sticker on it.

 

2nd hand smoke is bad, if you happen to actually inhale it.  Walking by a guy smoking a cigarette outside isn't the same as someone blowing smoke in your face and you have to hold your breath or breathe some of it in.  And it's not the same as being in a car with your kids or your friends and they are forced to breathe it.  When I smoke outside, I do not blow it in the face of others, yet quite a few cough even if you are nowhere close.  Or you get the occasional snide comment and dirty looks.

 

Eventually, it will be a freedom to be able to smoke according to the same rules as smokers and vapers.  Except when you cross borders.  Or when you get in an accident and your insurance doesn't cover it. Or when you are given a DUI.  I don't bother with it anymore, and have no present desire to use it for medicinal purposes.

Some people are hyper sensitive to smoke, and like FlyerFan52 was stating thats an individual based thing. Of course weed is illegal but it's not new, its been around as long as smoking has and weed has gone through a much harsher public perception than tobacco. Even the gov't has tried to demonize weed over the years until now they see the $$$ potential of the industry. Smoking has been banned in many public areas but its not a condemned practice, its still a socially accepted habit. Those same people who would snide you just over smelling cigarettes would go even further if that happened to be weed smoke. They are 2 different substances but the act is the same..although weed for many has an even more pungent and offensive smell that cigs.

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33 minutes ago, rickross said:

Some people are hyper sensitive to smoke, and like FlyerFan52 was stating thats an individual based thing. Of course weed is illegal but it's not new, its been around as long as smoking has and weed has gone through a much harsher public perception than tobacco. Even the gov't has tried to demonize weed over the years until now they see the $$$ potential of the industry. Smoking has been banned in many public areas but its not a condemned practice, its still a socially accepted habit. Those same people who would snide you just over smelling cigarettes would go even further if that happened to be weed smoke. They are 2 different substances but the act is the same..although weed for many has an even more pungent and offensive smell that cigs.

 

The only reason that smoking is tolerated is that it is legal.  Right this moment, the stigma is still because weed is illegal.  It's classified as a hallucinogen, whereas nicoltine is a stimulant.  Social norms change over time, so smoking a joint will eventually be looked upon with similar disdain as a cigarette.  

 

As for the smell or affect on people breathing 2nd hand smoke, two different plants and two different arguments.

Weed is less about the leaves and more about the flower.  It's more pungent because it is less treated and has more resin in the flower.  The reason why 2nd hand smoke is an issue is the carsongenic (sp) aspects of it.  Can't say that weed has the same properties.  That remains to be seen I guess.

 

Anyway, fill your boots.  I have no issue myself with people smoking it, as long as they don't endanger my life.

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