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Lines and Pairings for 2018/19 Season

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Just now, MAC331 said:

Seriously why do you not see Backlund as a #2 C ? with two solid wingers like Tkachuk and Lindholm this line is vastly improved IMO. Plus it allows for Frolik to strengthen another line more geared for a checking role Bennett, Ryan, Frolik. I see it like this so far.

Gaudreau, Monahan, Neal

Tkachuk, Backlund, Lindholm

Bennett, Ryan, Frolik

Klimchuk, Jankowski, Czarnik

Lazar, Hathaway

Giordano, Brodie

Hanifin, Hamonic

Kulak, Stone

Andersson

Smith, Rittich

 

I never said I didn't see Backlund as a number 2C.  I said I don't like Ryan as a third line defensive C. Last season (under Peter's) Ryan played the easiest competition and started a majority of his draws outside of the defensive zone.  He didn't kill penalties.  In general he was used as an offensive centre and was relatively sheltered.  On the other hand Lindholm was out in the second toughest situations (behind Staal) and centred the second PK unit.  He is a strong defensive option.  

 

Last season the Flames didn't have a good second option for playing the tough minutes.  Backlund saw his minutes jump by almost two minutes a night and he went from a +9 to a -21.  Frolik also struggled.  Lindholm represents an opportunity to add a second strong line to share the burden with Backlund and to balance the line up. Ryan does not.  Lindholm has also said he prefers centre, and with Neal now taking on the top line RW spot Lindholm can play centre. 

 

Monahan/Backlund/Lindholm is MUCH more balanced then Monahan/Backlund/Ryan.  You can call Backlund the 2-line C or Lindholm the 2-line C.  Doesn't matter to me.  In practice I would like to see Monahan around 18-minutes per night, Backlund and Lindholm each taking around 16.  That leaves Jankowski around 10, with him taking a few reps at wing to bring his minutes up to 11 or 12.

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23 minutes ago, MAC331 said:

Seriously why do you not see Backlund as a #2 C ? with two solid wingers like Tkachuk and Lindholm this line is vastly improved IMO. Plus it allows for Frolik to strengthen another line more geared for a checking role Bennett, Ryan, Frolik. I see it like this so far.

Gaudreau, Monahan, Neal

Tkachuk, Backlund, Lindholm

Bennett, Ryan, Frolik

Klimchuk, Jankowski, Czarnik

Lazar, Hathaway

Giordano, Brodie

Hanifin, Hamonic

Kulak, Stone

Andersson

Smith, Rittich

The problem I see is if Peters wants to go with a true shutdown line, which obviously would be centered by Backlund, with Frolik.  If not then they can all go into the blender to get the best balance and roll 4 lines.  I also believe Gaudreau-Monahan leave something to be desired defensively and Lindholm is likely the best option to fill that need, while also being a great passer feeding Monahan from the other side AND being fast which better aligns with Gaudreau.  The coaching staff will have many late nights trying to figure this one out over the summer.

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7 minutes ago, kehatch said:

 

I never said I didn't see Backlund as a number 2C.  I said I don't like Ryan as a third line defensive C. Last season (under Peter's) Ryan played the easiest competition and started a majority of his draws outside of the defensive zone.  He didn't kill penalties.  In general he was used as an offensive centre and was relatively sheltered.  On the other hand Lindholm was out in the second toughest situations (behind Staal) and centred the second PK unit.  He is a strong defensive option.  

 

Last season the Flames didn't have a good second option for playing the tough minutes.  Backlund saw his minutes jump by almost two minutes a night and he went from a +9 to a -21.  Frolik also struggled.  Lindholm represents an opportunity to add a second strong line to share the burden with Backlund and to balance the line up. Ryan does not.  Lindholm has also said he prefers centre, and with Neal now taking on the top line RW spot Lindholm can play centre. 

 

Monahan/Backlund/Lindholm is MUCH more balanced then Monahan/Backlund/Ryan.  You can call Backlund the 2-line C or Lindholm the 2-line C.  Doesn't matter to me.  In practice I would like to see Monahan around 18-minutes per night, Backlund and Lindholm each taking around 16.  That leaves Jankowski around 10, with him taking a few reps at wing to bring his minutes up to 11 or 12.

 

I think Lindholm mostly played wing under Peters, but can take strong side draws.

 

Monahan is our undisputed number 1 center and will center Gaudreau.

 

Backlund is the 2nd best center, but also the best defensive center, he should be getting the 2nd most minutes of the centers, but also face the toughest competition.

 

That opens opens up Ryan to face easier competition with Bennett. 

 

I see the break down minutes wise as 18 for the 1st line, 16 minutes for the 2nd line, 14 for the 3rd and 12 for the 4th. Of course that all depends on how much special teams play there is. But this allows you to really take advantage of the forward depth and roll 4 lines and play a high pace all game.

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1 hour ago, kehatch said:

Seems a bit top heavy though with a questionable bottom 6.  Ryan has never been a defensive C, and there is a big lack of experience on the Jankowski line. 

 

Maybe so, but it works cap-wise.  If you bury Brouwe and Lazar, trade Stone and insert Czarnik you have a healthy cap.

I assumed $4m for Hanifin, $5m for Lindholm, $950k for Hathaway, $1.2m for Rittich and $1.5m for Janko.  Leaves about $3m in cap space.

You could swap Ryan with Lindholm, or leave the 3m line as is and play Bennett-Lindholm-Ryan on one line.  

 

TBH, the 4th line has to be cheap.  Lazar can be completely buried and replace by Mangiapane's $700k.  Quine saves about $300k of Brouwer buried cap savings.  It's not ideal, but the 4th line has speed and Janko.  Not exactly a bunch of grinders.  Quine actually had a decent playoff a few years back.  Decent for a nobody. 

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J.Hockey/$Mony/Neal

Chucky/Backs/Lindholm 

Benny/Janks/Frolik

Mangi/Ryan/Brouwer or who ever

 

And just like that the top 9 has been transformed

 

 

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46 minutes ago, JTech780 said:

 

I think Lindholm mostly played wing under Peters, but can take strong side draws.

 

Monahan is our undisputed number 1 center and will center Gaudreau.

 

Backlund is the 2nd best center, but also the best defensive center, he should be getting the 2nd most minutes of the centers, but also face the toughest competition.

 

That opens opens up Ryan to face easier competition with Bennett. 

 

I see the break down minutes wise as 18 for the 1st line, 16 minutes for the 2nd line, 14 for the 3rd and 12 for the 4th. Of course that all depends on how much special teams play there is. But this allows you to really take advantage of the forward depth and roll 4 lines and play a high pace all game.

 

He played a bit of wing and centre in Carolina, but he finished the last bunch of the season at C.  I don't claim to be a Carolina expert, but it seems like they were moving him in that direction.  He also says he prefers C.  

 

I don't think you can play a single defensive line.  Especially since we don't deploy our top line defensively. That was a big issue last season.  We need a second unit that can handle the tough minutes and I don't see a line centred by Ryan doing that.  

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16 minutes ago, kehatch said:

 

He played a bit of wing and centre in Carolina, but he finished the last bunch of the season at C.  I don't claim to be a Carolina expert, but it seems like they were moving him in that direction.  He also says he prefers C.  

 

I don't think you can play a single defensive line.  Especially since we don't deploy our top line defensively. That was a big issue last season.  We need a second unit that can handle the tough minutes and I don't see a line centred by Ryan doing that.  

 

I think both Monahan and Ryan can handle more defensive situations when required. I also think Bennett's defensive ability gets way under rated, while the offense hasn't been where we all want it, he has turned into a very good defensive player.

 

Jankowski should also be able to handle a few defensive matchups. 

 

I am starting to wonder if a line up like this gives you more balance:

 

Gaudreau-Monahan-Lindholm

Tkachuk-Backlund-Neal

Bennett-Ryan-Frolik

Mangiapane-Jankowski-Czarnik

 

You have a defensively responsible player or two on each line in the top 9, and you can shelter the 4th line and let them concentrate on offense.

 

I am starting to adjust my thinking on how you use the 4th line. As recently as last year, I would have said don't put your youngsters on the 4th line because they need more minutes, but that was when 4th lines were playing 8-10 minutes a night. Now 4th lines are playing 10-12 minutes a night. If you can start to get some young guys like Mangiapane and Czarnik's feet wet on the 4th line and put them in situations to succeed, it will help develop their confidence and hopefully they can start pushing the players above them for playing time. 

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Gaudreau - Mony -Neal

Bennett - Lindholm- Tkachuk

Mangiapane - Backs - Frolik

Janko - Ryan - Cznernik

 

Is the lineup I'd start with. 

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14 minutes ago, cross16 said:

Gaudreau - Mony -Neal

Bennett - Lindholm- Tkachuk

Mangiapane - Backs - Frolik

Janko - Ryan - Cznernik

 

Is the lineup I'd start with. 

I would like to see the second line a try.

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1 hour ago, travel_dude said:

 

Maybe so, but it works cap-wise.  If you bury Brouwe and Lazar, trade Stone and insert Czarnik you have a healthy cap.

I assumed $4m for Hanifin, $5m for Lindholm, $950k for Hathaway, $1.2m for Rittich and $1.5m for Janko.  Leaves about $3m in cap space.

You could swap Ryan with Lindholm, or leave the 3m line as is and play Bennett-Lindholm-Ryan on one line.  

 

TBH, the 4th line has to be cheap.  Lazar can be completely buried and replace by Mangiapane's $700k.  Quine saves about $300k of Brouwer buried cap savings.  It's not ideal, but the 4th line has speed and Janko.  Not exactly a bunch of grinders.  Quine actually had a decent playoff a few years back.  Decent for a nobody. 

Define "bury". :ph34r:

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1 hour ago, Cowtownguy said:

Define "bury". :ph34r:

Well, I didn't actually spell the name of a player on the Flames, so there's no way you can pin it on me if he mysteriously disappears.

 

2 hours ago, cross16 said:

Gaudreau - Mony -Neal

Bennett - Lindholm- Tkachuk

Mangiapane - Backs - Frolik

Janko - Ryan - Cznernik

 

Is the lineup I'd start with. 

 

Not a bad compromise.  2 RHS C's.

I don;t think you use Ryan on the 4th line though.

Top line 100%.

The rest of the lines could be moved around to find the best combos.

Tkachuk-Backlund-Lindholm  (keeps together 2M)

Mangiapane-Bennett-Ryan  (alllows Ryan to take draws and Mangiapane stays on his correct wing)

Frolik-Janko-Czarnik  (Frolik helps two younger guys maintain possession)

 

 

 

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Treliving said they may try Tkachuk and Neal on the same line. He didn't sound committed to it, but something he said Peter's and he had talked about. 

 

Gaudreau-Monahan-Bennett

Tkachuk-Lindholm-Neal

Frolik-Backlund-Ryan

Mangiapane-Jankowski-Czarnik

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57 minutes ago, kehatch said:

Treliving said they may try Tkachuk and Ryan on the same line. He didn't sound committed to it, but something he said Peter's and he had talked about. 

 

He also said that Tkachuk and Neal on the same line would be interesting.  I don;t know if Lindholm was in the middle though.

Options.

Lots of them.

Without Brouwer and Lazar and Hathaway, the options are even better because you aren't only locked into RHS for the 4th line.

It would be nice to have a LHS as a 13/14th guy instead of two more RHS's.

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1 hour ago, travel_dude said:

 

He also said that Tkachuk and Neal on the same line would be interesting.  I don;t know if Lindholm was in the middle though.

Options.

Lots of them.

Without Brouwer and Lazar and Hathaway, the options are even better because you aren't only locked into RHS for the 4th line.

It would be nice to have a LHS as a 13/14th guy instead of two more RHS's.

 

Sorry, that is what I meant.  I put my lines that way, just typed the intro wrong!

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6 minutes ago, kehatch said:

 

Sorry, that is what I meant.  I put my lines that way, just typed the intro wrong!

 

I see that now.  

 

It's nice to have centers and proper wingers, not just guys that can play a wing or spot.

Before Monahan, we had Cammy or Tanguay C'ing Iggy.  Poor guy.

We've played 2nd and 3rd line guys on the top RW for years; Hudler, Ferland, Chaisson, Brouwer....

 

This is probably the deepest lineup we've had in many many years.

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Gaudreau - Monahan -Neal

Tkachuk - Backlund - Frolik

Bennett - Ryan - Lindholm

Brouwer/Lazar - Jankowski - Czarnik/Hathaway

 

Gio - Brodie

Hanifin - Hamonic

Kulak/Andersson - Stone

 

Smith - Rittich

 

Exciting times!  

Grit, play making and goal scoring on every line.

Nice looking defensive pairs. 

I like what Tree has done so far.

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10 hours ago, MAC331 said:

Seriously why do you not see Backlund as a #2 C ?

 

To me, the Flames have TWO second lines next season.  We all know who's the first line.  But Backlund and Lindholm should Center their own lines (now that we added Neal and he's defacto first line RW).  Both second lines should play equal minutes each game and get equal zone start chances.  The reason is, we should deploy a full time RHS C.  So that's Lindholm.

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I'm also thinking, would Lindholm and Ryan have good chemistry together from Carolina?  

 

Would a line of Bennett - Lindholm - Ryan be something we start with?

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28 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

I'm also thinking, would Lindholm and Ryan have good chemistry together from Carolina?  

 

Would a line of Bennett - Lindholm - Ryan be something we start with?

 

Someone pointed out that Ryan was sheltered, so I don;t know he should be playing with a shutdown guy like Lindholm.

Long term, it makes sense to move Lindholm up and Frolik down.  

Bennett-Ryan-Frolik would be fine.  They could concentrate on secondary scoring.  Could sub Janko in there I guess and bump Frolik to the 4th.

Uggg.  Would need to buyout Brouwer if that was the cse.  $9m 4th line.

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29 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

Someone pointed out that Ryan was sheltered, so I don;t know he should be playing with a shutdown guy like Lindholm.

Long term, it makes sense to move Lindholm up and Frolik down.  

Bennett-Ryan-Frolik would be fine.  They could concentrate on secondary scoring.  Could sub Janko in there I guess and bump Frolik to the 4th.

Uggg.  Would need to buyout Brouwer if that was the cse.  $9m 4th line.

You are more cap knowledgeable than I am, but if we do the Vegas model, should we not expect the 4th line to be relatively costly?

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1 hour ago, The_People1 said:

I'm also thinking, would Lindholm and Ryan have good chemistry together from Carolina?  

 

Would a line of Bennett - Lindholm - Ryan be something we start with?

 

I Cant say either way but they hardly played together the last 2 years. 

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First Line: LW-Gaudreau, C-Monahan, RW-Neal

Second Line: LW-Tkachuk, C-Backlund, RW-Lindholm

Third Line: LW-Frolik, C-Ryan, RW-Brouwer

Fourth Line: LW-Bennett, C-Jankowski, RW-Czarnik

Extras: Lazar, Hathaway

First Pair: Giordano, Brodie

Second Pair: Hanifin, Hamonic

Third Pair: Kulak, Andersson
Extra: Stone

Goalies: Starter-Smith, Backup-Rittich

I feel like this could work. I know we see Brouwer on the third line and instantly freak out, but it's something that might actually work. Frolik and Ryan are both pretty good with posession, makes up for Brouwer's weakness. Frolik is strong defensively, and Brouwer isn't *that* bad if he isn't on a hard shutdown line (such as subbing on the Backlund line), which covers Ryan's defensive game (which isn't bad, but not someone you want to give heavy defensive shifts to). And while Brouwer would be the slowest of the three, none of them are super fast which means you don't have someone speeding ahead waiting for others to catch up. As long as Brouwer gets to the net, Frolik and Ryan should be able to create some offence. 


I did it with Stone and Brouwer in the lineup because unless someone outplays them at camp (I don't mean slightly outplays, but decently outplays. If we're looking at camps where they are equal with a youngster, send the youngster down), or a team for some reason wants one of them, I feel like they will be on the team.

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19 hours ago, kehatch said:

 

I never said I didn't see Backlund as a number 2C.  I said I don't like Ryan as a third line defensive C. Last season (under Peter's) Ryan played the easiest competition and started a majority of his draws outside of the defensive zone.  He didn't kill penalties.  In general he was used as an offensive centre and was relatively sheltered.  On the other hand Lindholm was out in the second toughest situations (behind Staal) and centred the second PK unit.  He is a strong defensive option.  

 

Last season the Flames didn't have a good second option for playing the tough minutes.  Backlund saw his minutes jump by almost two minutes a night and he went from a +9 to a -21.  Frolik also struggled.  Lindholm represents an opportunity to add a second strong line to share the burden with Backlund and to balance the line up. Ryan does not.  Lindholm has also said he prefers centre, and with Neal now taking on the top line RW spot Lindholm can play centre. 

 

Monahan/Backlund/Lindholm is MUCH more balanced then Monahan/Backlund/Ryan.  You can call Backlund the 2-line C or Lindholm the 2-line C.  Doesn't matter to me.  In practice I would like to see Monahan around 18-minutes per night, Backlund and Lindholm each taking around 16.  That leaves Jankowski around 10, with him taking a few reps at wing to bring his minutes up to 11 or 12.

I guess we will differ on what makes a player useful vs successful. Lindholm as used in CAR is a waste IMO so I look at him with Backlund and Tkachuk as an opportunity to up his potential offense output. Ryan is very capable as a C much like a Bozak IMO and could easily take some of the hard minutes off Backlund. Anyways I like that BP has a number of what should be good line options.

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7 minutes ago, Khrox said:

First Line: LW-Gaudreau, C-Monahan, RW-Neal

Second Line: LW-Tkachuk, C-Backlund, RW-Lindholm

Third Line: LW-Frolik, C-Ryan, RW-Brouwer

Fourth Line: LW-Bennett, C-Jankowski, RW-Czarnik

Extras: Lazar, Hathaway

First Pair: Giordano, Brodie

Second Pair: Hanifin, Hamonic

Third Pair: Kulak, Andersson
Extra: Stone

Goalies: Starter-Smith, Backup-Rittich

I feel like this could work. I know we see Brouwer on the third line and instantly freak out, but it's something that might actually work. Frolik and Ryan are both pretty good with posession, makes up for Brouwer's weakness. Frolik is strong defensively, and Brouwer isn't *that* bad if he isn't on a hard shutdown line (such as subbing on the Backlund line), which covers Ryan's defensive game (which isn't bad, but not someone you want to give heavy defensive shifts to). And while Brouwer would be the slowest of the three, none of them are super fast which means you don't have someone speeding ahead waiting for others to catch up. As long as Brouwer gets to the net, Frolik and Ryan should be able to create some offence. 


I did it with Stone and Brouwer in the lineup because unless someone outplays them at camp (I don't mean slightly outplays, but decently outplays. If we're looking at camps where they are equal with a youngster, send the youngster down), or a team for some reason wants one of them, I feel like they will be on the team.

If Brouwer is here I agree you might as well start him where you have him. He tends to play better with veterans of the same role. Bennett on the 4th line should be a message to him that he has to work his way up. I like that there seems to be some consideration given to the immediate and future needs of the team.

Another thought they could think about is putting Neal on LW (played in PIT) with Backlund and Lindholm. Tkachuk would relish the opportunity to play with Gaudreau and Monahan I'm sure.

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