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Lines and Pairings for 2018/19 Season

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1 hour ago, robrob74 said:

It can’t be a one off. If they start to slump they’ll need to change. Last night was a great game.

 

The 3M line was great! But we need everyone to buy into that effort like last night. I love when the whole team plays engaged hockey. They tend to be inconsistent though, so let’s hope this becomes the norm.

What I like about our play in the offensive zone is that it now frequently involves more players. Last year seemed to be a pass to Monahan, a pass to Johnny, and a pass to empty space, or just passes between Monahan and Johnny. Now, it seems like you have the initial pass followed by two others. There is more tic tac toe, or even tic tac toe tum. That is far more exciting and has lead to more goals.

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23 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

The top line was iffy at best last night.  The one goal doesn't make up for scrambly play.  They played about 10 minutes at 5v5.

Since there's little chance of splitting up the 3M line against good team, we have to think about Neal and Lindholm alternating.

Lindholm looks great some nights on the top line, but other times he's not really helping.  Those are the times that Neal should be there.

 

We will have to see though.  Neal could be a great fit there.  Or it could be a game time thing.  Monahan is struggling on faceoffs, put Lindy up there.  Neal is getting a lot of chances, put him up there.  

 

Peters also said that personnel on the PP has to be looked at, since it's not working consistently.  Maybe Neal should replace Tkachuk on the top unit.  Or maybe replace Lindholm.  Not sure.  The 2nd unit is not working very well at all.  Ryan is there for the draws.  Fine.  Perhaps we should have someone other than Backlund?  Not sure.  

 

i get what you're saying. I dont know if it was just  Lindholm last night. He had spurts of good play, and so did the others. but you can't just blame him. I felt the other two were just as bad and thats going to happen. I think you can sub guys to change things up. In a game where the whole line was off, throwing someone else up there can spark them. I thought for the 2 shifts, Bennett looked good with Monahands and Lindholm.

 

I'd like to see what Bennett can do on the PP. He has good stick handling skill and is showing to be a good passer now that he's using his line mates. I'd like to see him in front of the net and crash on the rebounds. 

 

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26 minutes ago, Cowtownguy said:

What I like about our play in the offensive zone is that it now frequently involves more players. Last year seemed to be a pass to Monahan, a pass to Johnny, and a pass to empty space, or just passes between Monahan and Johnny. Now, it seems like you have the initial pass followed by two others. There is more tic tac toe, or even tic tac toe tum. That is far more exciting and has lead to more goals.

 

Being a consistent threat keeps momentum going and helps with other line's zone starts. 

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3 hours ago, robrob74 said:

 

i get what you're saying. I dont know if it was just  Lindholm last night. He had spurts of good play, and so did the others. but you can't just blame him. I felt the other two were just as bad and thats going to happen. I think you can sub guys to change things up. In a game where the whole line was off, throwing someone else up there can spark them. I thought for the 2 shifts, Bennett looked good with Monahands and Lindholm.

 

I'd like to see what Bennett can do on the PP. He has good stick handling skill and is showing to be a good passer now that he's using his line mates. I'd like to see him in front of the net and crash on the rebounds. 

 

 

I'm not saying change it up as I am use that option some times.  The PP struggles at times.  It isn't always Gaudreau.  Could we use Neal down low and try Tkachuk on the 2nd unit.   

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47 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

I'm not saying change it up as I am use that option some times.  The PP struggles at times.  It isn't always Gaudreau.  Could we use Neal down low and try Tkachuk on the 2nd unit.   

 

I would like them to try most of the players on the PP, then they can reward anyone who is having a really good game, playing hard, etc. I think there’s enough skill to go around on it. 

 

Not saying you punish and not play the top line on it, but sometimes they’re just not feeling it.

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12 hours ago, robrob74 said:

 

I would like them to try most of the players on the PP, then they can reward anyone who is having a really good game, playing hard, etc. I think there’s enough skill to go around on it. 

 

Not saying you punish and not play the top line on it, but sometimes they’re just not feeling it.

Is this not why they have 2 specific units ? Also changes IMO should be tried in practise prior to game situations otherwise nobody is familiar with each other.

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On 2018-10-18 at 8:33 AM, MAC331 said:

Until they move Tkachuk away from Backlund and Frolik this team wont get these lines to maximum performance IMO. New talents have arrived and others emerging should be a sign for this group of coaches to get away from some lines that work OK. How much more dynamic could a line of Tkachuk, Bennett and Neal become given some real time to play together ? A prime shutdown line would be one of Frolik, Backlund, Ryan and I would take this into any playoff scenario, All reliable players that get the job done. Using the 4th line to build another dynamic which could grow into having any player off this line play up on other lines should be a goal. Dube, Jankowski and Czarnik's talents compliment each other very well and as the young guys they will be full of P&V. The top line they have it right with Gaudreau, Monahan and Lindholm.

The situation that has become suspect IMO is our RS defensemen. Brodie, Stone and Hamonic have not played good at all for2 seasons now and the only one I like right now is the play of Andersson. The play up the LS with Giordano, Hanifin and Valimaki has been stellar. I would like to see these pairings with Prout sent to the AHL or keep him up and just have Hathaway as the lone spare forward.

Giordano, Brodie

Hanifin, Andersson

Valimaki, Hamonic

Stone

(kehatch) I share your concerns about Smith (another shakey performance last night) but I just don't think BT will make another change this season.

Three (3) significant moves could have this team being much better, Bennett back to C, Frolik to LW, Ryan to RW and which allows Tkachuk to play in a more offensive capacity for the team.

Go FLAMES Go

Mac,

Wow what a crazy and negative bunch of views.  Gotta cringe at your potential comments if the team was actually playing badly.  No idea what’s bothering you but the Flames’ play shouldn’t be one of them.   There is so much positive happening right now it’s hard to understand the negativity.  To each their own, I guess.  

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5 hours ago, MAC331 said:

Is this not why they have 2 specific units ? Also changes IMO should be tried in practise prior to game situations otherwise nobody is familiar with each other.

 

I think “try everyone” was too generic and thought it was obvious that of course they’d practice them on it first. Although I don’t see a huge problem with throwing one player on if one isn’t feeling it. 

 

I’d like to see us be able to adapt more in game when some players  aren’t working.  Some times it’s just an off night. 

 

Some games it looks great and others horrible.

 

I don’t like how the first unit tends to eat up about 1:15 of the pp. it only leaves the 2nd unit about :30 to work with after the line change and trying to set up again. Some nights they’re on while others it’s like beating a dead horse.

 

or maybe they practice a 3rd forward unit. They don’t have to throw them out every game and they could play a line that is feeling it. 

 

It gets frustrating 

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Seeing the line-up for tonight and I'm disappointed to see Czarnik as a healthy scratch with Dube coming back.  All Czarnik has done is impress...albeit in a limited role.  He's been far more effective and dangerous than Hathaway.  I fail to see why year in and out Hathaway seems to get the inside track on coaches decisions like this.  I don't think Hathaway brings much of anything, other than a body to fill the 4th line, but we've got legit NHL players for that, so why keep him up and put Czarnik as a healthy scratch?  Seems like a pretty suspect decision.  Czarnik brings energy, skill, and consistency to the group.  Hathaway brings energy...but inconsistently, and he doesn't have the same skill set by a country mile.

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3 minutes ago, YounGuns said:

Seeing the line-up for tonight and I'm disappointed to see Czarnik as a healthy scratch with Dube coming back.  All Czarnik has done is impress...albeit in a limited role.  He's been far more effective and dangerous than Hathaway.  I fail to see why year in and out Hathaway seems to get the inside track on coaches decisions like this.  I don't think Hathaway brings much of anything, other than a body to fill the 4th line, but we've got legit NHL players for that, so why keep him up and put Czarnik as a healthy scratch?  Seems like a pretty suspect decision.  Czarnik brings energy, skill, and consistency to the group.  Hathaway brings energy...but inconsistently, and he doesn't have the same skill set by a country mile.

 

He hits.  

 

Someone said we ranked 28th in total team hits this season.  We might drop to 31th without Hathaway.

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I am really starting to likethe way Rasmus Anderson plays.  I think he is going to make it a tough decision for management when Hamonic returns.  

 

Anderson may be a casualty due to contract situations, but he is definitely a better player than Prout and maybe a better player than Valimaki and/or Stone.  

 

I hope he sticks around. 

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19 hours ago, cccsberg said:

Mac,

Wow what a crazy and negative bunch of views.  Gotta cringe at your potential comments if the team was actually playing badly.  No idea what’s bothering you but the Flames’ play shouldn’t be one of them.   There is so much positive happening right now it’s hard to understand the negativity.  To each their own, I guess.  

Why do you view this as negativity ? I'm just giving my view of some moves that would hopefully improve them as a team moving into the season more. I want to see this Coach max out the talent he has now. I understand the experimenting through October but there needs to be some fine tuning yet.

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We need to make a hard decison with Dube.  He's generating chances but does 6 minutes in a game make a lot of sense?

I'm going to chalk it up to chasing in too many games, resulting in a short bench, but can we really continue this way?

If you are generally sitting one player from the top 12 per game, why not consider Rychel.  At least he's scoring at the AHL level.

4g 2a in 4 games.  Foo 2g 2a in 4 games.  We need hungry players that could sit one night and play hot when they get their chance.

 

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Agreed with TD, Dube hasn't done anything to get himself sent down, but if he's only playing a handful of minutes a night, there's no point in keeping him up. If we only play him a handful of minutes a night we will have ourselves a Lazar situation like in OTT.

 

It's obvious they like Hathaway, which is fine he's a decent enough player. I'd recall Rychel to battle with Hathaway for games. Both guys can play hard and be a thorn in the side for teams in limited minutes

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2 hours ago, travel_dude said:

We need to make a hard decison with Dube.  He's generating chances but does 6 minutes in a game make a lot of sense?

I'm going to chalk it up to chasing in too many games, resulting in a short bench, but can we really continue this way?

If you are generally sitting one player from the top 12 per game, why not consider Rychel.  At least he's scoring at the AHL level.

4g 2a in 4 games.  Foo 2g 2a in 4 games.  We need hungry players that could sit one night and play hot when they get their chance.

 

Not sure. Dube isn't the worst fwd on this team so I'd say keep him up.

Considering the developmental aspect, I'm not sure playing big minutes in the A really matters. It's kind of the goon league so does Dube get randomly targeted as a kid with a bright future?

He clearly won the spot in camp so the optics are dicey in your suggestion.

I know what your saying, but I'd keep him with the big club personally, and bare in mind developing a young player doesn't have a right way or a wrong way.

 

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2 hours ago, conundrumed said:

Not sure. Dube isn't the worst fwd on this team so I'd say keep him up.

Considering the developmental aspect, I'm not sure playing big minutes in the A really matters. It's kind of the goon league so does Dube get randomly targeted as a kid with a bright future?

He clearly won the spot in camp so the optics are dicey in your suggestion.

I know what your saying, but I'd keep him with the big club personally, and bare in mind developing a young player doesn't have a right way or a wrong way.

 

I agree with keeping Dube up here but get him placed right, that IMO is 4th line LW with Jankowski and Czarnik. Forget Hathaway he isn't important. Dube getting 6 to 8 min of NHL minutes and instruction is far better for him than being in the AHL. These young guys come in a set the world on fire in camp against lesser competition and they become top 9 in everyone's mind, not sustainable. BP just has to use this 4th line properly as a secondary checking line but I have no doubt they will score some goals while learning on the job.

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3 hours ago, conundrumed said:

Not sure. Dube isn't the worst fwd on this team so I'd say keep him up.

Considering the developmental aspect, I'm not sure playing big minutes in the A really matters. It's kind of the goon league so does Dube get randomly targeted as a kid with a bright future?

He clearly won the spot in camp so the optics are dicey in your suggestion.

I know what your saying, but I'd keep him with the big club personally, and bare in mind developing a young player doesn't have a right way or a wrong way.

 

 

It doesn't necessarily mean sending him down.  If you are playing the 4th line 6 minutes, I don;t think it makes a lot of sense having him in the lineup.

Scratch him or play him 10+ minutes.  If you want to play a line of players 6 minutes, dress guys like Rychel, Hathaway, etc. where you don't worry about the development.

 

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1 hour ago, travel_dude said:

 

It doesn't necessarily mean sending him down.  If you are playing the 4th line 6 minutes, I don;t think it makes a lot of sense having him in the lineup.

Scratch him or play him 10+ minutes.  If you want to play a line of players 6 minutes, dress guys like Rychel, Hathaway, etc. where you don't worry about the development.

 

 

I think right now in his career he benefits more from playing big minutes and situations where he can score and contribute.

 

i listened to the Yelle interviews last game on the fan during the intermission. He said with Colorado, he was behind Sakic and Forsberg. In his life he put up huge numbers in jr. and he had  adapt his game because of that. He lost his offence because he didn’t use it.

Do we want to do that to that to Dube? He can handle the aNhl? Yes. Do we want to stifle his potential to keep him up? I dunno.

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30 minutes ago, robrob74 said:

 

I think right now in his career he benefits more from playing big minutes and situations where he can score and contribute.

 

i listened to the Yelle interviews last game on the fan during the intermission. He said with Colorado, he was behind Sakic and Forsberg. In his life he put up huge numbers in jr. and he had  adapt his game because of that. He lost his offence because he didn’t use it.

Do we want to do that to that to Dube? He can handle the aNhl? Yes. Do we want to stifle his potential to keep him up? I dunno.

First question I'd ask is what are the expectations?

He's a 3-4, swiss army knife kinda player.

How many of those do we have?

Might just as well get him going.

Does he make our bottom 6 better?

I'd say yes.

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19 minutes ago, conundrumed said:

First question I'd ask is what are the expectations?

He's a 3-4, swiss army knife kinda player.

How many of those do we have?

Might just as well get him going.

Does he make our bottom 6 better?

I'd say yes.

 

While I agree with you, I wonder when we have to turn over talent, who will we have for Top6? Do we want to mould some into that player?

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50 minutes ago, robrob74 said:

 

While I agree with you, I wonder when we have to turn over talent, who will we have for Top6? Do we want to mould some into that player?

Sometimes, you do it by keeping a guy too.

Dube belongs here imho. There's no moulding. A guy can figure out how to be successful or not.

He'll figure out how to get his minutes. Give it time. He'll need to watch occasionally. That's why coaching is important.

Young guy. NHL coaching and team mates.

Keep him up.

The A is slow motion, keep him fast and fast-thinking.

Progressing, not regressing.

Can't wait 'til he plays his 10th.

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Based on what we've seen, what do we think is Dube's ceiling?  

 

To me, not even close to Gaudreau's potential but he could peak as a complementary first line winger or a full time second liner.  But that's if all goes well.  Most probably a second/third line player. 

 

So that said, I have no problems if Dube continues to develop on the 4th line and watching games from the press box to study the X's and O's.  If we think he's an elite star, then let's not waste him on the 4th line.  Get him to AHL playing top line minutes and in all the prime scoring situations.

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36 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

Based on what we've seen, what do we think is Dube's ceiling?  

 

To me, not even close to Gaudreau's potential but he could peak as a complementary first line winger or a full time second liner.  But that's if all goes well.  Most probably a second/third line player. 

 

So that said, I have no problems if Dube continues to develop on the 4th line and watching games from the press box to study the X's and O's.  If we think he's an elite star, then let's not waste him on the 4th line.  Get him to AHL playing top line minutes and in all the prime scoring situations.

 

I know some think it’s great he is in the nhl now. I would like to see him play that in the AHL for a bit. Get him top 6 minutes and keep the scoring feeling. He is close .

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8 hours ago, conundrumed said:

Sometimes, you do it by keeping a guy too.

Dube belongs here imho. There's no moulding. A guy can figure out how to be successful or not.

He'll figure out how to get his minutes. Give it time. He'll need to watch occasionally. That's why coaching is important.

Young guy. NHL coaching and team mates.

Keep him up.

The A is slow motion, keep him fast and fast-thinking.

Progressing, not regressing.

Can't wait 'til he plays his 10th.

 

10th game does not matter.  IT doesn;t play into any decision, except the cost of him for the year.

Valimaki is the one where the 10th game matters.

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On ‎2018‎-‎10‎-‎20 at 5:47 PM, travel_dude said:

 

It doesn't necessarily mean sending him down.  If you are playing the 4th line 6 minutes, I don;t think it makes a lot of sense having him in the lineup.

Scratch him or play him 10+ minutes.  If you want to play a line of players 6 minutes, dress guys like Rychel, Hathaway, etc. where you don't worry about the development.

 

I think this is flawed logic, 6 minutes of playing time in the NHL is development and likely at a pace which allows them to learn while limiting mistakes.

Our 4th line of Dube, Jankowski and Hathaway were awesome last night

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