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Lines and Pairings for 2018/19 Season

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14 hours ago, JTech780 said:

 

Secondly who are we going to take off the top PP unit to fit Neal? 

 

If it were me, Id take Tkachuk off. Flames have a huge imbalance on their. Can stack a unit when you need to, but over the course of the season they are going to need 2 functional units. 

 

 

9 hours ago, kehatch said:

 

I think the Flames need to reevaluate Backlund's role. If he is a defensive specialist then make him that. Move Lindholm to C to anchor a solid second line, move Backlund to your third line (ensuring you have a solid third line) and fill in the pieces from there. 

 

Gaudreau-Monahan-Neal 

Tkachuk-Lindholm-Czarnik

Bennett-Backlund-Frolik

 

Agreed.

 

A bit of me beating a dead horse but I still strongly believe the Flames need to put LIndholm at center. They are really lacking play making ability out of their center position. 

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1 hour ago, cross16 said:

 

If it were me, Id take Tkachuk off. Flames have a huge imbalance on their. Can stack a unit when you need to, but over the course of the season they are going to need 2 functional units. 

 

 

 

Agreed.

 

A bit of me beating a dead horse but I still strongly believe the Flames need to put LIndholm at center. They are really lacking play making ability out of their center position. 

 

When the PP is clicking, Gio is a big part of it.  I think you may need to evaluate that at times too.  Against a team that pressures, Gio can be a liability.  The team is forced to move the puck around a lot, and it can be easy to see where Gio is going.  Not saying they should use Hanifin or Brodie, but you need some other options.  Hamonic?  Andersson, with someone helping covering the blueline. 

 

To me, the use of Backlund on the 2nd unit is killing their effectiveness.  You may need him to win faceoffs, but perhaps that's the only positive things he brings to it.  

 

 

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Interesting observation from a Habs blogger:

 

Matthew Tkachuk is quickly becoming one of the NHL’s most underrated stars, even on his own team. Tkachuk is tied for the Flames team lead in Points (19) with Monohan and Gaudreau despite playing almost two and a half minutes less than Mono and Johnny. Tkachuk is also crushing both of those stars in CF% and FF%. I suppose we should feel lucky the Flames don’t realize they are stifling their best player by playing him less than they should, but I have watched enough of M Tkachuk to know that as long as he’s playing he is dangerous. Tkachuk has serious potential to become another Jamie Benn type player and as soon as the Flames start playing him like that the sooner they will reap the benefits. 

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6 hours ago, travel_dude said:

Interesting observation from a Habs blogger:

 

Matthew Tkachuk is quickly becoming one of the NHL’s most underrated stars, even on his own team. Tkachuk is tied for the Flames team lead in Points (19) with Monohan and Gaudreau despite playing almost two and a half minutes less than Mono and Johnny. Tkachuk is also crushing both of those stars in CF% and FF%. I suppose we should feel lucky the Flames don’t realize they are stifling their best player by playing him less than they should, but I have watched enough of M Tkachuk to know that as long as he’s playing he is dangerous. Tkachuk has serious potential to become another Jamie Benn type player and as soon as the Flames start playing him like that the sooner they will reap the benefits. 

 

I think most fans appreciate what they have in Tkachuk.  I have said it before, he is our best chance of having a superstar on the roster.   I don't disagree with the blogger's assessment of the Flames utilization of him.  He does get plenty of ice time, but he is generally with lower offense forwards focused on defensive responsibilities. It would be nice to see him play with someone like Lindholm who has a bit more offensive upside then Backlund/Frolik.

 

8 hours ago, cross16 said:

 

If it were me, Id take Tkachuk off. Flames have a huge imbalance on their. Can stack a unit when you need to, but over the course of the season they are going to need 2 functional units. 

 

 

 

Agreed.

 

A bit of me beating a dead horse but I still strongly believe the Flames need to put LIndholm at center. They are really lacking play making ability out of their center position. 

 

If the Flames were to pair 'Gaudreau-Monahan' / 'Tkachuk-Lindholm' / 'Backlund-Frolik' then they are virtually guaranteed three strong lines regardless of how they deploy Bennett, Neal, Czarnik, Ryan, etc.  Especially if the Monahan continues to focus on the defensive side of his game and Lindholm keeps taking steps forward like he has.  

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13 minutes ago, kehatch said:

 

I think most fans appreciate what they have in Tkachuk.  I have said it before, he is our best chance of having a superstar on the roster.   I don't disagree with the blogger's assessment of the Flames utilization of him.  He does get plenty of ice time, but he is generally with lower offense forwards focused on defensive responsibilities. It would be nice to see him play with someone like Lindholm who has a bit more offensive upside then Backlund/Frolik.

 

 

If the Flames were to pair 'Gaudreau-Monahan' / 'Tkachuk-Lindholm' / 'Backlund-Frolik' then they are virtually guaranteed three strong lines regardless of how they deploy Bennett, Neal, Czarnik, Ryan, etc.  Especially if the Monahan continues to focus on the defensive side of his game and Lindholm keeps taking steps forward like he has.  

 

Perhaps that was the hope and belief of BT.  Bring in Neal to play on the top line.  Bring in Lindy to be a 2nd offensive forward that is also good on the defensive side.

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13 hours ago, kehatch said:

 

I think most fans appreciate what they have in Tkachuk.  I have said it before, he is our best chance of having a superstar on the roster.   I don't disagree with the blogger's assessment of the Flames utilization of him.  He does get plenty of ice time, but he is generally with lower offense forwards focused on defensive responsibilities. It would be nice to see him play with someone like Lindholm who has a bit more offensive upside then Backlund/Frolik.

 

 

If the Flames were to pair 'Gaudreau-Monahan' / 'Tkachuk-Lindholm' / 'Backlund-Frolik' then they are virtually guaranteed three strong lines regardless of how they deploy Bennett, Neal, Czarnik, Ryan, etc.  Especially if the Monahan continues to focus on the defensive side of his game and Lindholm keeps taking steps forward like he has.  

I have been reluctant to move Lindholm off RW but maybe you are right with an eye for the now and future. I just don't think Czarnik or Ryan are anything more than 4th line players so if you put Neal top line (revolutionary idea I know) we have a huge need on RW for Tkachuk and Lindholm. I know some will say use Bennett there but I think Bennett belongs with Backlund and Frolik on LW which should be an awesome line. Maybe try Spensor Foo with Tkachuk and Lindholm ??

Gaudreau, Monahan, Neal

Tkachuk, Lindholm, Foo

Bennett, Backlund, Frolik

Dube, Jankowski, Czarnik

Maybe keep Ryan and look to trade Jankowski for a top 6 RW, just a thought

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1 hour ago, MAC331 said:

I have been reluctant to move Lindholm off RW but maybe you are right with an eye for the now and future. I just don't think Czarnik or Ryan are anything more than 4th line players so if you put Neal top line (revolutionary idea I know) we have a huge need on RW for Tkachuk and Lindholm. I know some will say use Bennett there but I think Bennett belongs with Backlund and Frolik on LW which should be an awesome line. Maybe try Spensor Foo with Tkachuk and Lindholm ??

Gaudreau, Monahan, Neal

Tkachuk, Lindholm, Foo

Bennett, Backlund, Frolik

Dube, Jankowski, Czarnik

Maybe keep Ryan and look to trade Jankowski for a top 6 RW, just a thought

 

You know, I don't actually have a problem with Ryan.  He is an honest player.  You get the same effort from him every game.  He may not be top 9 here, but that is because we have better players.  Last night, we saw what Bennett can do with a good player.  I didn't see him playing well with Backlund, just playing well with Tkachuk.  Two guys difficult to stop.  Give it a few more games.  Try Lindy between them.  Backlund and Frolik with Dube, since he's healthy again.  Dube has always be a defensively sdmart player and I see no reason why he can't take that role now.  

 

So I don't forget about a player this time, here is my suggestion:

JH-Monahan-Neal

Tkachuk-Lindholm-Bennett

Dube-Backlund-Frolik

Ryan-Janko-Hathaway

 

That 4th line has Ryan there to win faceoffs, but Janko is the center.  They can shift to give Janko coming up the middle or on the wing.  The rest of the lines use players where they have shown comfort levels or better results.  Neal can be dangerous with a good passer.  Bennett can alternate with Lindy for faceoffs, but you have a very talented pair of Lindholm-Tkachuk regardless.  Backlund and Frolik do what they are good at and Dube gives them some added hockey IQ.

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37 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

You know, I don't actually have a problem with Ryan.  He is an honest player.  You get the same effort from him every game.  He may not be top 9 here, but that is because we have better players.  Last night, we saw what Bennett can do with a good player.  I didn't see him playing well with Backlund, just playing well with Tkachuk.  Two guys difficult to stop.  Give it a few more games.  Try Lindy between them.  Backlund and Frolik with Dube, since he's healthy again.  Dube has always be a defensively sdmart player and I see no reason why he can't take that role now.  

 

So I don't forget about a player this time, here is my suggestion:

JH-Monahan-Neal

Tkachuk-Lindholm-Bennett

Dube-Backlund-Frolik

Ryan-Janko-Hathaway

 

That 4th line has Ryan there to win faceoffs, but Janko is the center.  They can shift to give Janko coming up the middle or on the wing.  The rest of the lines use players where they have shown comfort levels or better results.  Neal can be dangerous with a good passer.  Bennett can alternate with Lindy for faceoffs, but you have a very talented pair of Lindholm-Tkachuk regardless.  Backlund and Frolik do what they are good at and Dube gives them some added hockey IQ.

To be honest if those 3 were put together (which I think is a fantastic idea) I would move Bennett back into C. Watching Bennett with good players I just think he gets it but leaning another position again I don't like it for him.

I have all kinds of faith in Dube to play with Backlund and Frolik so I would be all for it. Just get Neal on the top line where he belongs.

I really like how Jankowski is playing so yeah maybe Ryan becomes the jack knife.

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I think it's time for the Flames to completely shake up their lines and try something new. Scoring is going to have highs and lows but 3 of their last 4 games it's been frustrating to see them not be able to produce on their chances.  I think it's also time to move Lindholm to center because the Flames have too many of the same centers on the roster. Their centers are goal scores who want to find open areas, and arn't as good at holding the puck and finding open guys. 

 

Gadureau - Lindholm - Neal

Tkachuk - Monahan - Bennett

Frolik - Backlund - Ryan

Hathaway - Janko - Czarnik

 

Balance out the guys who are better play makers and I think you can make more strides to balance out the scoring. I also thought Gaudreau- Lindholm-Neal was a real good line when Peters put them together in the Colorado comeback. This also allows you to use the Backlund line strictly in a shutdown role

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5 minutes ago, cross16 said:

I think it's time for the Flames to completely shake up their lines and try something new. Scoring is going to have highs and lows but 3 of their last 4 games it's been frustrating to see them not be able to produce on their chances.  I think it's also time to move Lindholm to center because the Flames have too many of the same centers on the roster. Their centers are goal scores who want to find open areas, and arn't as good at holding the puck and finding open guys. 

 

Gadureau - Lindholm - Neal

Tkachuk - Monahan - Bennett

Frolik - Backlund - Ryan

Hathaway - Janko - Czarnik

 

Balance out the guys who are better play makers and I think you can make more strides to balance out the scoring. I also thought Gaudreau- Lindholm-Neal was a real good line when Peters put them together in the Colorado comeback. This also allows you to use the Backlund line strictly in a shutdown role

 

This is something I can get behind. Part of the problem I see with Neal and Monahan playing on the same line is that both players are slower, but they also like to go to the same areas of the ice to score.

 

If Bennett doesn't work on the 2nd line I would try Czarnik there, I think he still has more to give 

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27 minutes ago, JTech780 said:

 

This is something I can get behind. Part of the problem I see with Neal and Monahan playing on the same line is that both players are slower, but they also like to go to the same areas of the ice to score.

 

If Bennett doesn't work on the 2nd line I would try Czarnik there, I think he still has more to give 

 

Czarnik is definitely a player i'd like to get some more opportunities to as well. I think Bennett deserve it first, but I almost thought about putting Czarnik instead of Neal. 

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51 minutes ago, JTech780 said:

Gadureau - Lindholm - Neal

Tkachuk - Monahan - Bennett

Frolik - Backlund - Ryan

Hathaway - Janko - Czarnik

 

22 minutes ago, cross16 said:

 

Czarnik is definitely a player i'd like to get some more opportunities to as well. I think Bennett deserve it first, but I almost thought about putting Czarnik instead of Neal. 

Jtech I like the lines but I see Czarnik as a play maker and think he is starting to push for a regular spot so I would try

Gadureau - Lindholm - Neal

Tkachuk - Monahan - Bennett

Frolik - Backlund - Czarnik  The 2 ik's would work well together

Hathaway - Janko - Ryan   I really think Ryan is trade material. I would prefer Dube instead of Ryan on this line.

Lindholm/ Monahan interchangeable.

 

Cross I too have thought of Czarnik on the top line but I think we could start with a PP using

JG - Mony- Czarnik

Geo- Lindholm

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To be honest, I think it's between Czarnik, Dube and Hathaway for that final spot.  Dube fits better on LW if you use Czarnik on the 4th line.  He could also play LW to Backlund and Frolik.  Strange that we have too many RHS's in the lineup.

 

I think it's a little premature to say you can't or shouldn't play Monahan and Neal on the same line.  Have they played more than a few shifts together?  When they are out there together (limited viewing) they seem to create stuff.  I'm all for Linholm between Tkachuk and Bennett.  Two guys that can pass and two guys that can shoot.  And Bennett to clog up the crease and give the other guys space to shoot.  

 

So that gives you:

JH-Monahan-Neal

Tkachuk-Lindholm-Bennett

Dube-Backlund-Frolik

Czarnik-Janko-Ryan

 

Not bad.  Every line except the top one has umlitple centers.  Dube was known for his defensive prowess, so use him there.  Backlund-Frolik keeps an effective pair together.  The 4th line has some speed, just need Ryan to start hitting the net.

 

Another option is:

JH-Monahan-Neal

Tkachuk-Lindholm-Bennett

Frolik-Backlund-Ryan

Dube-Janko-Czarnik

 

Every player (except Neal) is on the side he shoots.  Each line except the top one has multiple centers.  Czarnik can take strong side darws if he is able to win those.  

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2 hours ago, cross16 said:

I think it's time for the Flames to completely shake up their lines and try something new. Scoring is going to have highs and lows but 3 of their last 4 games it's been frustrating to see them not be able to produce on their chances.  I think it's also time to move Lindholm to center because the Flames have too many of the same centers on the roster. Their centers are goal scores who want to find open areas, and arn't as good at holding the puck and finding open guys. 

 

Gadureau - Lindholm - Neal

Tkachuk - Monahan - Bennett

Frolik - Backlund - Ryan

Hathaway - Janko - Czarnik

 

Balance out the guys who are better play makers and I think you can make more strides to balance out the scoring. I also thought Gaudreau- Lindholm-Neal was a real good line when Peters put them together in the Colorado comeback. This also allows you to use the Backlund line strictly in a shutdown role

There is no way they do anything this drastic. It isn't like our forward group has been terrible even in our losses. We had MON and Price beat last night if not for Smith.

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1 minute ago, MAC331 said:

There is no way they do anything this drastic. It isn't like our forward group has been terrible even in our losses. We had MON and Price beat last night if not for Smith.

 

I disagree. They haven't been good enough nor consistent enough.

 

Teams has 3 EV goals in the last 4 games and outside of the Chicago/Colorado comebacks (where the lines were put int he blender) It's 6 in 8 games. They need more consistent scoring and IMO it's not going to come by sticking with the same groups. It's out of balance right now. 

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1 minute ago, cross16 said:

 

I disagree. They haven't been good enough nor consistent enough.

 

Teams has 3 EV goals in the last 4 games and outside of the Chicago/Colorado comebacks (where the lines were put int he blender) It's 6 in 8 games. They need more consistent scoring and IMO it's not going to come by sticking with the same groups. It's out of balance right now. 

Why do you really think that is ? I think it is because BP doesn't have a clue who is best to play with who IMO. Just take this thread as an example and look at the number of line combinations posters have come up with. You get consistency by having players play with consistent line mates. It's hard enough coming in with so many new players and having them all over the place. Four (4) moves could have this whole season set up to move ahead better.

Neal with Gaudreau and Monahan

Tkachuk, Bennett, Lindholm RW

Dube with Backlund and Frolik

This has the players in the top 9 that should be there. You could swap Lindholm and Bennett but why have Bennett out of position again, give him something familiar to handle.

The 4th line could also remain well stocked with the likes of Jankowski, Ryan, Czarnik and Hathaway game to game.

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14 minutes ago, MAC331 said:

Why do you really think that is ? I think it is because BP doesn't have a clue who is best to play with who IMO.

 

Line combos are just like opinions. Everyone's got one and everyone thinks theirs is the best. Saying Peters has no clue is iMO unfair. You don't know that Neal with Gaudreau- Monahan is going to work any better than he does and it could fail just as easily, and IMO it would, as it would succeed. I'll never understand why people get so impassioned by line combos, they are science experiments. 

 

I think Peters, like a lot of coaches, is playing it a bit safe trying to get some consistency while also trying some tweaks here and there. He's also got his hands tied a bit because I don't really anyone in his bottom 6 making a case for more opportunity. 

 

to be fair to Peters, the lines are only what I would try and that doesn't make me right either. Scoring issues may be solved by lines but it's probably more related to the skill set of the roster. Last night was a great example, how many shots missed the net by 3 feet? That's not a line issue. 

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12 minutes ago, cross16 said:

 

I disagree. They haven't been good enough nor consistent enough.

 

Teams has 3 EV goals in the last 4 games and outside of the Chicago/Colorado comebacks (where the lines were put int he blender) It's 6 in 8 games. They need more consistent scoring and IMO it's not going to come by sticking with the same groups. It's out of balance right now. 

 

Need a few fixes.  The 2nd PP unit looks dreadful at times.  They were good for the 45 seconds against MTL, but mostly it's a crap show.

I start by saying that Backlund is the wrong guy to build the PP unit on.  ANyway, we are talking about lines.

 

What had started as a strength for the Flames (5v5) has turned into their problem. 

 

The top line needs a change.  The line is not scoring right now.  The other lines, with the exception of Tkachuk and Frolik (hatty and some other odd goals), have not been scoring.  We have a lot of talent that somehow is not scoring.  Maybe they need a few drills where they have to pass or shoot within 2 seconds of receiving the puck.  Brodie, Gio and JH could use it.  Nothing wrong with them, just they need to stop telegraphing plays so much.    

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32 minutes ago, cross16 said:

 

Line combos are just like opinions. Everyone's got one and everyone thinks theirs is the best. Saying Peters has no clue is iMO unfair. You don't know that Neal with Gaudreau- Monahan is going to work any better than he does and it could fail just as easily, and IMO it would, as it would succeed. I'll never understand why people get so impassioned by line combos, they are science experiments. 

 

I think Peters, like a lot of coaches, is playing it a bit safe trying to get some consistency while also trying some tweaks here and there. He's also got his hands tied a bit because I don't really anyone in his bottom 6 making a case for more opportunity. 

 

to be fair to Peters, the lines are only what I would try and that doesn't make me right either. Scoring issues may be solved by lines but it's probably more related to the skill set of the roster. Last night was a great example, how many shots missed the net by 3 feet? That's not a line issue. 

Have you ever coached ? or if you have been able to go with your best instincts on some of your players ? Great coaches or even good coaches just know. I would say I haven't seen any of this out of BP. I thought he was using October to have some kind of idea but that has not materialized at all to date. I disagree line combos are science experiments or like opinions, a NHL Head Coach should be able to identify what his best options are for maximizing the talent available to him. You are correct that missing the net is not a line issue nor is it a reason to move people all over the place again. Like I said, 4 moves and I don't think there is a lot wrong because there as been lots to like as well.

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34 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

Need a few fixes.  The 2nd PP unit looks dreadful at times.  They were good for the 45 seconds against MTL, but mostly it's a crap show.

I start by saying that Backlund is the wrong guy to build the PP unit on.  ANyway, we are talking about lines.

 

What had started as a strength for the Flames (5v5) has turned into their problem. 

 

The top line needs a change.  The line is not scoring right now.  The other lines, with the exception of Tkachuk and Frolik (hatty and some other odd goals), have not been scoring.  We have a lot of talent that somehow is not scoring.  Maybe they need a few drills where they have to pass or shoot within 2 seconds of receiving the puck.  Brodie, Gio and JH could use it.  Nothing wrong with them, just they need to stop telegraphing plays so much.    

Backlund IMO as been almost useless this season with the exception of his defensive play.

How many times did you yell "shoot the puck" last night when either Brodie, Giordano or Gaudreau had the puck ? for me it was lots, to much indecision.

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7 minutes ago, MAC331 said:

Have you ever coached ? or if you have been able to go with your best instincts on some of your players ? Great coaches or even good coaches just know. 

 

A pretty good NHL head coach would disagree with you....

 

 

Quote

 

Columbus Blue Jackets head coach John Tortorella was asked about how he picks who plays where on his forward lines and he dropped some hard truth.

It’s all bulls—.

Aaron Portzline from The Athletic has the full quote.

“It’s a bunch of bulls—. I get a kick out of us, as coaches… we talk about this, that and the other thing,” he said. “‘This is what I’m looking for.’ It’s a bunch of bulls—. We try things, and if it works, it works.”

https://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/john-tortorella-forward-lines-bunch-bs/

 

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1 hour ago, MAC331 said:

Your opinion, like you say what is it worth. Gawd don't quote me Torts I have no respect for his way of thinking.

You're missing out. Heard him interviewed on NHL Radio a few weeks ago and his insights are exceptional.

We only see his meltdowns, but he is a very good hockey mind and actually comes across as pretty laid back.

Love his post game pressers after a bad game.

Yes.

No.

No.

Idunno, you'll have to ask them.

Priceless and absolutely correct. The press is digging for dirt, he doesn't satisfy, lol.

He's also excellent with players.

Everything I thought I knew about Torts being an asshat the last couple years has disintegrated.

He's very articulate and downplays himself in favour of the players. He gets it.

 

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Tomorrow is gonna be a really big test for the Backlund line. His line has done very well against the high end lines on COL and BOS so far, but Mcdavid is a threat unlike no-other, as we all know. If that line can play him to a draw at worst, we have a real good chance.

 

Another thing about tomorrow night's game is it will tell us a lot about the depth of our team. I think the Flames are just a bit deeper up front. If the Oilers don't get anything out of the McD line, they typically don't have much success. I'm looking specifically at the third line, as the top 6 will be Backlund vs 97/29 line and Monahan against RNH. EDM also just traded their third line C today, who's filling that role, Khaira? Doubt Spooner will be playing tomorrow.  Should be an opportunity for our third line to come through, maybe Neal can wake up. On top of all that Johnny is pointless in 4 straight, he is due for a couple tomorrow.

 

Would have been easy to go back to Smith as he played two solid games against the Oilers down the stretch last year. But Rittich deserves a chance to play a few and he was also very good up in EDM last season.

 

All in all, really excited for tomorrow's game, always fun to play them but even better when we get the 2 points!

 

 

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13 hours ago, conundrumed said:

You're missing out. Heard him interviewed on NHL Radio a few weeks ago and his insights are exceptional.

We only see his meltdowns, but he is a very good hockey mind and actually comes across as pretty laid back.

Love his post game pressers after a bad game.

Yes.

No.

No.

Idunno, you'll have to ask them.

Priceless and absolutely correct. The press is digging for dirt, he doesn't satisfy, lol.

He's also excellent with players.

Everything I thought I knew about Torts being an asshat the last couple years has disintegrated.

He's very articulate and downplays himself in favour of the players. He gets it.

 

Pass. I don't need to take in Torts to be able to see what's astray with our team. I'm sure he is a smart hockey mind, most coaches don't get here by accident

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