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Lines and Pairings for 2018/19 Season

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15 minutes ago, cross16 said:

 

He's 2 year younger. Big difference there too. 

 

I really wonder what the story would be if Jankowski didn't score those 4 goals in such a meaningless game. All in all Jankow had a very meh rookie season, was not better than Bennett and honestly If you look at last year's Sam Bennett (his rookie year at center) I think he out played what Jankowkski did this year. Yet the story seems to be trending towards Bennett is a bust but yet Jankowski is a keeper with big potential. Doesn't make sense and likely  a lot of recency bias. 

 

Not really debating what you are saying because it makes sense.

What I am trying to reconcile is that in his rookie year (15/16) he played wing to Granlund for 30 some games and also played wing with Backlund and Frolik.  Could be faulty memory on my part.  He only took 347 faceoffs, while averaging 15 minutes of icetime.  

 

All in all, both players played with a crap RW last year.  

Both could stand to play with players they excel with and at positions they are comfortable with.   

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1 hour ago, travel_dude said:

 

Not really debating what you are saying because it makes sense.

What I am trying to reconcile is that in his rookie year (15/16) he played wing to Granlund for 30 some games and also played wing with Backlund and Frolik.  Could be faulty memory on my part.  He only took 347 faceoffs, while averaging 15 minutes of icetime.  

 

All in all, both players played with a crap RW last year.  

Both could stand to play with players they excel with and at positions they are comfortable with.   

Parsing their pasts may be fun but realistically does it matter?  It seems that both have survived the shake-up and, unless BT still has a couple more moves to make both will get opportunities this coming season and it'll be up to them to prove what they are.  Personally I'm tired of the excuses, arguable or not and just want the best going forward.  

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1 hour ago, cccsberg said:

Parsing their pasts may be fun but realistically does it matter?  It seems that both have survived the shake-up and, unless BT still has a couple more moves to make both will get opportunities this coming season and it'll be up to them to prove what they are.  Personally I'm tired of the excuses, arguable or not and just want the best going forward.  

 

I would say we have not seen the end of the trades.  I doubt Dougie and Ferland were the biggest issues in the locker room or the culture.  I'm not saying who I think remains (for now), just that I would not be surprised by any player being traded with a couple of exceptions:

Gio being traded signals a major shift in the organization

Gaudreau being traded would be akin to trading McInnis or Newy or Gilmour.

Monahan being traded would be giving up our most successful center in 20+ years.

Tkachuk being traded would PO so many people.  He's one of the greatest competitors we have.

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3 hours ago, cross16 said:

 

He's 2 year younger. Big difference there too. 

 

I really wonder what the story would be if Jankowski didn't score those 4 goals in such a meaningless game. All in all Jankow had a very meh rookie season, was not better than Bennett and honestly If you look at last year's Sam Bennett (his rookie year at center) I think he out played what Jankowkski did this year. Yet the story seems to be trending towards Bennett is a bust but yet Jankowski is a keeper with big potential. Doesn't make sense and likely  a lot of recency bias. 

I agree with you. It is difficult to tell if the four goals were indicative of Jankowski's talents, or whether they indicate that Vegas was thinking about the playoffs. With that said, why didn't another player on the Flames score 4 goals?

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9 minutes ago, Cowtownguy said:

I agree with you. It is difficult to tell if the four goals were indicative of Jankowski's talents, or whether they indicate that Vegas was thinking about the playoffs. With that said, why didn't another player on the Flames score 4 goals?

 

Mostly luck IMO. IIRC 2 of the goals were super soft on Fleury. Sometimes you get lucky as a player. 

 

but obviously its takes a degree of skill to play in the NHL and it takes a degree of skill to score 4 goals so this is not me trying to lower the bar on Jankowski. I just think it's interested because I think the buzz and the talk prior to that game was Jankowski was starting to "disappoint" to a certain degree and then you have a 4 goal performance in a meaningless game and we are back to thinking he's got potential again. What if it was 2 goals what would the story be then, but it's 4 goals and it's rare so suddenly the narrative changes.

 

I just find it interesting. 

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12 minutes ago, Cowtownguy said:

I agree with you. It is difficult to tell if the four goals were indicative of Jankowski's talents, or whether they indicate that Vegas was thinking about the playoffs. With that said, why didn't another player on the Flames score 4 goals?

Not sure why the comparison especially now. Jankowski is going to be a very good C and likely takes over for Backlund one day. The flashes of brilliance this past season is what you get from talented individuals in their rookie season. Bennett I believe has a real chance to become a premier LW similar to a Gary Roberts as he gains the experience and confidence.

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1 minute ago, cross16 said:

 

Mostly luck IMO. IIRC 2 of the goals were super soft on Fleury. Sometimes you get lucky as a player. 

 

but obviously its takes a degree of skill to play in the NHL and it takes a degree of skill to score 4 goals so this is not me trying to lower the bar on Jankowski. I just think it's interested because I think the buzz and the talk prior to that game was Jankowski was starting to "disappoint" to a certain degree and then you have a 4 goal performance in a meaningless game and we are back to thinking he's got potential again. What if it was 2 goals what would the story be then, but it's 4 goals and it's rare so suddenly the narrative changes.

 

I just find it interesting. 

:D Yeah, we fans are a fickle bunch. I suspect that people were a little frustrated about his lack of production and hoped that the four goals were indicative of a break out. I like Janko, but I realize he will need time to fully develop. I am pretty optimistic about him.

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3 minutes ago, cross16 said:

 

Mostly luck IMO. IIRC 2 of the goals were super soft on Fleury. Sometimes you get lucky as a player. 

 

but obviously its takes a degree of skill to play in the NHL and it takes a degree of skill to score 4 goals so this is not me trying to lower the bar on Jankowski. I just think it's interested because I think the buzz and the talk prior to that game was Jankowski was starting to "disappoint" to a certain degree and then you have a 4 goal performance in a meaningless game and we are back to thinking he's got potential again. What if it was 2 goals what would the story be then, but it's 4 goals and it's rare so suddenly the narrative changes.

 

I just find it interesting. 

 

I take no credence from a guy scoring 4 in game 83 any more than I did seeing Seiloff score in game 82.  

But I do have a couple of questions.

Janko played all but a few games with Bennett.  Both struggled.  Which was better away from the other?

Which is more successful, a player playing on wing or one playing at center for their rookie season, considering they are similar in results? 

 

Overall, I wasn't that impressed with either player's rookie season.  

What is more important is how both do this year.

 

 

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Mixing it up, no line#s in mind.

JG-Baks-Neal: JG still has a snipe to feed, a more D wary C

Bennett-Mony-Tkachuk: good cycle, Both can find Mony. Bennett gets linemates

Frolik-Lindholm<>Ryan: RHC to smart Fro on the left. Good forecheck/PK

Mangia-Janks-Brouwer: We don’t have size, but smarts and good pace

 

We can think Backs is only good for 45 pts but those wingers change everything and they can crisscross at will.

We’ve seen Tkachuk’s phantom passing skills, we’ve seen Mony’s slot work, we’ve seen Benny up the ice by his lonesome. A snipe and 2 hard to play villains.

Adds toughness and grit in a scoring line.

The 3rd mention is the new shutdown line. Lindholm-Ryan have familiarity,Frolik is one of the smartest players on the team. Possession monsters.

Just making Janks and Mangiapane a thing. Brouwer a chance at redemption.

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13 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

I take no credence from a guy scoring 4 in game 83 any more than I did seeing Seiloff score in game 82.  

But I do have a couple of questions.

Janko played all but a few games with Bennett.  Both struggled.  Which was better away from the other?

Which is more successful, a player playing on wing or one playing at center for their rookie season, considering they are similar in results? 

 

Overall, I wasn't that impressed with either player's rookie season.  

What is more important is how both do this year.

 

 

 

Well I was also comparing both of them at center. Bennett 2 years ago and Janko last year and IMO I thought Bennett had the stronger season at center 2 years ago then Janko did last year and did so with lesser talent.

 

end of the day though, I agree the Flames need both to be better. I'm not satisfied with either right now but all i'm getting at is IMO Bennett has always been the better prospect and IMO has more of a ceiling which would have been the consensus among most fans, but yet it seems to have switched mostly based on 1 game. Again, i'ts just a narrative I find interesting. 

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Kehatch was right, line combos are a bit pointless in summer but given it's slow and i'm bored i've re thought how I would start the year.

 

The more I've thought about it the more I don't like Neal on the top line. He's not great in his own zone so you are really loading up a line of guys are are all more 1 way than 2 way and i'm not sure I like that... I don't label lines, I thikn of them more of what type of opporutnity would I use this line in. 

 

JG - Mony - Bennett - Offensive zone starts. Primary offensive line. Scoring situations.

Tkachuk - Lindholm - Neal Bit of a blend. Probably slanted slightly towards D zone starts. becuase after Backs this would be the 2nd most comfortable line in terms of d zone matchups. Could see this being a line that could really drive play the other way but not get caught either. 

Mangiapane/Janko - Backs - Froik - Primary match up line. heavy D zone starts and likely taking the tougher match ups

Brouwer - Ryan - Czernik - bit of a "mix up" line. I'd use them mostly in the o zone as a way to mix things up and free up the Mony-Lindholm line for scoring opportunities. My preference is that Brouwer is not on this line but if he's on the team they need to try and use him. 

 

PP1

Tkachuk

Lindholm/Cznerik - Mony - Gaudreau

Gio

 

PP2

Janko

Lindholm/Cznernik - Bennett - Neal

Hanifin 

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16 minutes ago, cross16 said:

 

Well I was also comparing both of them at center. Bennett 2 years ago and Janko last year and IMO I thought Bennett had the stronger season at center 2 years ago then Janko did last year and did so with lesser talent.

 

end of the day though, I agree the Flames need both to be better. I'm not satisfied with either right now but all i'm getting at is IMO Bennett has always been the better prospect and IMO has more of a ceiling which would have been the consensus among most fans, but yet it seems to have switched mostly based on 1 game. Again, i'ts just a narrative I find interesting. 

I notice you give Bennett a ton of leeway cross, but Jankowski hardly any.

I agree Jankowski faded, but he was a rookie, should be good takeaways for him.

He’s a smart player, just needs to stay focused, imo.

He knows the rigours now.

Is that his brother that is a rookie camp invite?

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3 minutes ago, conundrumed said:

I notice you give Bennett a ton of leeway cross, but Jankowski hardly any.

I agree Jankowski faded, but he was a rookie, should be good takeaways for him.

He’s a smart player, just needs to stay focused, imo.

He knows the rigours now.

Is that his brother that is a rookie camp invite?

 

I don't really feel that's what I'm doing. I'm not disappointed in Jankowski's season or implying as such. I'm only dissapointd in the narrative of being sour on a young player like Bennett but trying to move the ceiling higher on Jankowski based on, IMO, 1 game and I think I put more into the fact that Jankowski has 2 more years on Bennett than some as well. I think both are young players that the Flames need to find a way to get more out of, but yes I still think the ceiling is higher for Bennett than it is for Jankowksi. I've felt that way for years and have yet to see a reason to change my mind. 

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3 minutes ago, cross16 said:

 

I don't really feel that's what I'm doing. I'm not disappointed in Jankowski's season or implying as such. I'm only dissapointd in the narrative of being sour on a young player like Bennett but trying to move the ceiling higher on Jankowski based on, IMO, 1 game and I think I put more into the fact that Jankowski has 2 more years on Bennett than some as well. I think both are young players that the Flames need to find a way to get more out of, but yes I still think the ceiling is higher for Bennett than it is for Jankowksi. I've felt that way for years and have yet to see a reason to change my mind. 

 

I really haven;t felt that people were projecting Janko to be a higher ceiling than Backlund.

He never was more than a defensive C in college.  His faceoff number were good then.

Bennett had been projected to be a top offensive C.
 

Now the NHL results are where people look at to see meeting those ceilings.

Bennett starts with a bang and every year has dropped a bit - goals and/or total points.

Janko has had one year.  Nothing to say he will rise or drop this year, no context.

Perhaps the projecting is due to Janko's rookie year being close to the expected results.

Both can and should do better.

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7 hours ago, cross16 said:

 

He's 2 year younger. Big difference there too. 

 

I really wonder what the story would be if Jankowski didn't score those 4 goals in such a meaningless game. All in all Jankow had a very meh rookie season, was not better than Bennett and honestly If you look at last year's Sam Bennett (his rookie year at center) I think he out played what Jankowkski did this year. Yet the story seems to be trending towards Bennett is a bust but yet Jankowski is a keeper with big potential. Doesn't make sense and likely  a lot of recency bias. 

 

Something Jankowski has had that Bennett had too, that was Bennett, for most of the year. While when Bennett played C, for talent, all he had was Bennett.

 

one thing to keep in mind is the excitement of playing with Gaudreau. Bennett had some good games with him too. But he didn’t sustain it, nor was he kept with him all the time.

 

Either way, you are right, it is a big year for Bennett. Hopefully he does get better and help the team. I’d like to see him get a summer coach who can analyze his game and help him into a team philosophy. He’s had to do it all himself for too long. He has the skill to use other players, but needs to get out of his current mindset.

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1 hour ago, robrob74 said:

 

Something Jankowski has had that Bennett had too, that was Bennett, for most of the year. While when Bennett played C, for talent, all he had was Bennett.

 

one thing to keep in mind is the excitement of playing with Gaudreau. Bennett had some good games with him too. But he didn’t sustain it, nor was he kept with him all the time.

 

Either way, you are right, it is a big year for Bennett. Hopefully he does get better and help the team. I’d like to see him get a summer coach who can analyze his game and help him into a team philosophy. He’s had to do it all himself for too long. He has the skill to use other players, but needs to get out of his current mindset.

A summer coach would be a great idea. If someone like Gilmour could review video of his play and spot a few things to work on, that would be great. Obviously, conditioning during the summer is a necessity. He has speed, strength, and talent. With a good start to the year and dependable line mates, I think he will increase his contributions greatly. I have high expectations for him and Bill Peters. Peters has a lot of work to do.

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22 hours ago, robrob74 said:

 

I agree. 

 

Give Valimaki a few games at the NHL level to start. Tell him that it was like when he was in JR where they have penciled him into a few games if he earned. But tell him the plan is to send him down with an idea of what he has to work on.

 

we kinda ruined Bennett by not playing him in the AHL for awhile by thinking he was too good for Jr and thinking he won’t learn there. Learning on the job can be hazardous. 

 

One thing Tkachuk has is he was born in an NHL RINK, he grew up with NHL players. He already had an idea of what it took. We also kept him in a position to succeed and he ran with it. We threw the other guy into the water to learn how to swim on his own.

He was ineligible for the AHL. You need to be 20 years old.(there are exceptions but he was not one). Bennett was back to his Jr team of stay here.

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49 minutes ago, DirtyDeeds said:

He was ineligible for the AHL. You need to be 20 years old.(there are exceptions but he was not one). Bennett was back to his Jr team of stay here.

 

I am talking about the year after he was injured. We buried a year by playing him more than the 9 games in the playoffs. Then, the next year we had to choose for him to play in the nhl or Jr. we chose NHL, he got close to 40 points with Backs and everything seemed fine. 

 

I think if we wanted to develop him as a C we should’ve sent him down, but I honk it was too late after playing the year with Backs. I am not sure if he would’ve been waiver eligible that year though as he had played a full year in the nhl. 

 

I think He shouldve went back to Jr and then even maybe to the AHL the year after that, or even went to the AHL to learn and play big minutes as a C.

 

But how do you go about doing that without souring him on the team?

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Barring trade or injury, we may not be surprised to see something like this to START the season.

 

Gaudreau-Monahan-Neal

Tkachuk-Backlund-Lindholm

Jankowski-Ryan-Bennett

Frolik-Lazar-Brouwer

 

Giordano-Brodie

Hanifin-Hamonic

Kulak-Stone

 

Some of the positions could be up or down a line or 2 and also switched LW//C/RW. (please don’t diagnose the line combinations). We may not like this or be excited about this as there are no rookies and possibly some players who may not have “earned their spots” or are paid too much, however, this may be BT’s final year if it doesn’t work. I have a feeling he will go with vets first and if the rookies play well in preseason and in the AHL, they will get their shot if an injury or poor play results. Jankowski had a great camp last year yet he didn’t make the starting lineup. Young players need to play a lot to get better and will accomplish that by getting good minutes in the AHL. Just a hunch.

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20 hours ago, travel_dude said:

 

I would say we have not seen the end of the trades.  I doubt Dougie and Ferland were the biggest issues in the locker room or the culture.  I'm not saying who I think remains (for now), just that I would not be surprised by any player being traded with a couple of exceptions:

Gio being traded signals a major shift in the organization

Gaudreau being traded would be akin to trading McInnis or Newy or Gilmour.

Monahan being traded would be giving up our most successful center in 20+ years.

Tkachuk being traded would PO so many people.  He's one of the greatest competitors we have.

I agree there are likely a couple more trades in the pipeline.  We shall see how the RFA signings go across the league and here.

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19 hours ago, conundrumed said:

Mixing it up, no line#s in mind.

JG-Baks-Neal: JG still has a snipe to feed, a more D wary C

Bennett-Mony-Tkachuk: good cycle, Both can find Mony. Bennett gets linemates

Frolik-Lindholm<>Ryan: RHC to smart Fro on the left. Good forecheck/PK

Mangia-Janks-Brouwer: We don’t have size, but smarts and good pace

 

We can think Backs is only good for 45 pts but those wingers change everything and they can crisscross at will.

We’ve seen Tkachuk’s phantom passing skills, we’ve seen Mony’s slot work, we’ve seen Benny up the ice by his lonesome. A snipe and 2 hard to play villains.

Adds toughness and grit in a scoring line.

The 3rd mention is the new shutdown line. Lindholm-Ryan have familiarity,Frolik is one of the smartest players on the team. Possession monsters.

Just making Janks and Mangiapane a thing. Brouwer a chance at redemption.

Certainly with our new players giving us options, and a new coach with a propensity to blend lines, this could happen.  I believe we could probably come up with dozens of combos if we wanted.... What would happen if Bennett hits the reset button and finds his 1C game and explodes all over the scoresheet?  Or Jankowski gets to another level and becomes that huge, skilled, fast 200ft C every team would love to have?  Both possible.  Would we be laughing all the way to the bank if Backlund and Monahan and Lindholm all got moved to the bottom 6 because we had better (well, Mony and Lindy would probably go to wing first....)?  It's going to be interesting, to say the least.

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18 hours ago, travel_dude said:

He never was more than a defensive C in college. 

Can't agree with that, he always played their top or second line and was a key contributor offensively.  The thing is, the coach was heavily d-slanted so he instilled that throughout the team, including Jankowski.  When they won the National Championship and Jankowski was voted to the All-Tournament All Star team it wasn't just as a defensive C.  Heck, he played better than Eichel....

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5 hours ago, 7wit said:

Barring trade or injury, we may not be surprised to see something like this to START the season.

 

Gaudreau-Monahan-Neal

Tkachuk-Backlund-Lindholm

Jankowski-Ryan-Bennett

Frolik-Lazar-Brouwer

 

Giordano-Brodie

Hanifin-Hamonic

Kulak-Stone

 

Some of the positions could be up or down a line or 2 and also switched LW//C/RW. (please don’t diagnose the line combinations). We may not like this or be excited about this as there are no rookies and possibly some players who may not have “earned their spots” or are paid too much, however, this may be BT’s final year if it doesn’t work. I have a feeling he will go with vets first and if the rookies play well in preseason and in the AHL, they will get their shot if an injury or poor play results. Jankowski had a great camp last year yet he didn’t make the starting lineup. Young players need to play a lot to get better and will accomplish that by getting good minutes in the AHL. Just a hunch.

Can't "Like This" because I don't, but I do agree that barring additional trades this is likely very close to the season-starting line-up.  Still got a couple of months of summer left and I would not be surprised if further trades are in the wind.

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7 minutes ago, cccsberg said:

Can't agree with that, he always played their top or second line and was a key contributor offensively.  The thing is, the coach was heavily d-slanted so he instilled that throughout the team, including Jankowski.  When they won the National Championship and Jankowski was voted to the All-Tournament All Star team it wasn't just as a defensive C.  Heck, he played better than Eichel....

 

Well, they won that because the opposing goalie had a meltdown.  Dropped the puck in his own net after saving it.

Janko was always below Acciari on the depth chart, until the final season.

Every writeup I read about him was saying he was more defensive than offensive.  Not the same impact of a Gaudreau.  That's not a slight.

Backlund came in as a sniper and was turned into a defensive C.

 

My point is that he's leaning more towards a 2-way C than say Monahan or Bennett.  You need that.  

My hope is that he can supplant Backlund in the future.  That would be a good thing. 

Maybe Bennett could get to that level, but it seems the coach and GM had more belief in Janko at C.

Maybe that changes this year. 

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26 minutes ago, cccsberg said:

Can't agree with that, he always played their top or second line and was a key contributor offensively.  The thing is, the coach was heavily d-slanted so he instilled that throughout the team, including Jankowski.  When they won the National Championship and Jankowski was voted to the All-Tournament All Star team it wasn't just as a defensive C.  Heck, he played better than Eichel....

The fact that Jankowski learned the value of defensive play is what will make him a good overall player. You can see this in his play now.

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