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4 hours ago, tmac70 said:

So Benny has 10 points in 7 games in Florida. He had 12 points in each of the last 2 seaons here. What is obvious is that he did have the talent but was never provided the opportunity to enhance it, plus it shows how poor a quailty the coaching and players he played with are. This club is like a talent vortex it judt sucks the talent and skill right out of players

 

5 hours ago, robrob74 said:


I have always thought he had it in him.

 

Yup.   I mean it's early.   But...those consecutive multi-point games, and he's still so young.

 

Again, I like this trade.   Is it a good trade?    Nah we can see now it's gonna turn out right aweful lol.

 

But.... management/ownership Cannot hide from this and it's about time because I'm soooo sick of their excuses and the excuses people make for their complete idiocy.

 

And ...since we likely gonna be forced to sell off more players....everyone will up their bids now lol

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7GP - 4G - 6A - 10P (+7)

19 PIM which was mostly a fight when he stuck up for his teammate

Averaging just over 18 Minutes a night, and is on the 1st PP unit

 

I am overjoyed for Benny, and exhaustingly frustrated that we weren’t able to realize his potential. I hope this is an eye opener for people calling for chuckys head. 
Players need to be put in a position to succeed, just look at Benny.

 

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1 hour ago, pikey7883 said:

7GP - 4G - 6A - 10P (+7)

19 PIM which was mostly a fight when he stuck up for his teammate

Averaging just over 18 Minutes a night, and is on the 1st PP unit

 

I am overjoyed for Benny, and exhaustingly frustrated that we weren’t able to realize his potential. I hope this is an eye opener for people calling for chuckys head. 
Players need to be put in a position to succeed, just look at Benny.

 

 

Lwt's not lose sight of a few things.

 

We don't have the players that ever complemented Bennett.  While Gaudreau may be as skilled, he is not a complete player like Huberdeau.  Tkachuk is a similar style to Bennett, so it's not complementary.  As an individual player, he struggled to raise his game.  We saw glimses of it, just not prolonged growth.

 

Thachuk is playing with a different C.  He has struggled this year in the last two months.  That is on him and nobody else.  The reasons may be the fault of leadership or the coach, but he has struggled.  He was given an escalating contract because he was improving each year.  He's stagnated.  Calls to trade him are focused on the struggle.  If he's injured, then that's a decent enough reason not to.    

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The difference between Bennett and Tkachuk is that Bennett was always on a revolving line mates basis with revolving roles and mostly being tasked with energy/defensive play in the bottom 6 with limited PP time. Tkachuk has consistently been in the top 6, regularly on top PP and until a few weeks ago had consistently played with Backlund. Recently moved to play with Lindholm which hasn’t seemed to work.

 

So the situations for the 2 players are very different. Tkachuk has been given every opportunity to play with high skilled players in an offensive role. Something Bennett never got here. The reason people are now suggesting the need to move Tkachuk has nothing to do with his skill or lack thereof, but because there appears to be a disconnect between him and the rest of the team. He used to try and drag the team into games emotionally, and it just isn’t there recently.

 

Moving Tkachuk and others would indicate a need for a full culture change, and hopefully the current culture has not been engrained yet in players like Hanifin, Valimaki, Dube, Mangiapane etc. It would also allow Tkachuk a change of scenery where he can get his game back while providing the Flames with a big return.

 

 

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5 minutes ago, bosn111 said:

The difference between Bennett and Tkachuk is that Bennett was always on a revolving line mates basis with revolving roles and mostly being tasked with energy/defensive play in the bottom 6 with limited PP time. Tkachuk has consistently been in the top 6, regularly on top PP and until a few weeks ago had consistently played with Backlund. Recently moved to play with Lindholm which hasn’t seemed to work.

 

So the situations for the 2 players are very different. Tkachuk has been given every opportunity to play with high skilled players in an offensive role. Something Bennett never got here. The reason people are now suggesting the need to move Tkachuk has nothing to do with his skill or lack thereof, but because there appears to be a disconnect between him and the rest of the team. He used to try and drag the team into games emotionally, and it just isn’t there recently.

 

Moving Tkachuk and others would indicate a need for a full culture change, and hopefully the current culture has not been engrained yet in players like Hanifin, Valimaki, Dube, Mangiapane etc. It would also allow Tkachuk a change of scenery where he can get his game back while providing the Flames with a big return.

 

 

 

I just don't see the equivalent players that Bennett could have played with.  Last year, when Backlund was bumped to LW, who was used on #2C?  I can't even tell you, but it still would have been Tkachuk or Mangiapane.  Good players, but not at the same level as Huberdeau.  That was my point.  No players that really complemented him if he played C.  No speedy RW to also be there.  

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10 hours ago, robrob74 said:


I have always thought he had it in him. You lose skill if you don’t get to practice it. That and playing with the right players helps. It’ll be another year and he’ll be back on track. 
 

I think everyone is right though, that he looked bad and no IQ. But he had all odds against him in Calgary, the moment Tkachuk arrived. Well, they could have played them together to create another generation of line. 
 

I always said, if he played with Johnny or something good compared to what he got and got the minutes, he’d have succeeded. We saw him depleted because of the inconsistency from the coaches which bred inconsistency in him. 
 

he has a role in Florida and he can play it. 
 

maybe it’s the #9!

 

I've always said, the only way we could've developed Bennett offensively was to not focus on winning games.  This means moving Backlund to 3rd line Center even though Backlund was the better Center at the time.  But nope.  We had to win games.

 

Also, we married Gaudreau with Monahan when Bennett and Jankowski showed chemistry with Gaudreau.  We could've had a Gaudreau-Bennett pair instead.  But nope, Backlund.

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38 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

I've always said, the only way we could've developed Bennett offensively was to not focus on winning games.  This means moving Backlund to 3rd line Center even though Backlund was the better Center at the time.  But nope.  We had to win games.

 

Also, we married Gaudreau with Monahan when Bennett and Jankowski showed chemistry with Gaudreau.  We could've had a Gaudreau-Bennett pair instead.  But nope, Backlund.

 

Always tough to go back and identify where a player would have done better.  20 games should have given some indication, but it's difficult to be willing to lose games to get there.  Very few teams are willing to do that.  If anything the failing years of Hartley and Gully should have been the years.  But then you have coaches fighting for their jobs.  

 

The only year I can think of where we had a decent chance to use Bennett with Gaudreau and a decent RW was the year we won the west.  How do you make the change when things are coming up roses?  The end of the year struggle was not just the team coasting or playing out the season, it was also goaltending starting to fail.

 

This year was a perfect opportunity to try Bennett at #1C or #2C.  Lindholm was not lights out better than any other option.  We were losing from day 1.  Could have made that choice and broken up the lines to start with.  Whether we would have been better is questionable.  I don't think we had that mix of players to get Bennett to 4th overall levels.

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1 hour ago, The_People1 said:

 

I've always said, the only way we could've developed Bennett offensively was to not focus on winning games.  This means moving Backlund to 3rd line Center even though Backlund was the better Center at the time.  But nope.  We had to win games.

 

Also, we married Gaudreau with Monahan when Bennett and Jankowski showed chemistry with Gaudreau.  We could've had a Gaudreau-Bennett pair instead.  But nope, Backlund.

When was this?  

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I still say it’s early. He’s currently playing in playoff mode, and may rack it up the rest of the season, but the real test is next season. Will he continue being a ppl player, or drop back to career norms? Playing with Huberdeau definitely helps. Duclaire has put up 9 points in the last 7 games too, is he also an elite talent or just on a hot streak?

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2 hours ago, travel_dude said:

 

Always tough to go back and identify where a player would have done better.  20 games should have given some indication, but it's difficult to be willing to lose games to get there.  Very few teams are willing to do that.  If anything the failing years of Hartley and Gully should have been the years.  But then you have coaches fighting for their jobs.  

 

The only year I can think of where we had a decent chance to use Bennett with Gaudreau and a decent RW was the year we won the west.  How do you make the change when things are coming up roses?  The end of the year struggle was not just the team coasting or playing out the season, it was also goaltending starting to fail.

 

This year was a perfect opportunity to try Bennett at #1C or #2C.  Lindholm was not lights out better than any other option.  We were losing from day 1.  Could have made that choice and broken up the lines to start with.  Whether we would have been better is questionable.  I don't think we had that mix of players to get Bennett to 4th overall levels.

 

Well Bennett also had little PP time his entire time here.  Mostly second unit and for small stretches at a time.  You need to put him in scoring situations if he's not getting it 5 on 5.

 

Same situation with Kylington last year.  Had to bump him off for Gustafson.  Right now, they'd rather play two RHS D on the PP Stone-Andersson.  Give Valimaki the minutes.  Let him gain some experience.

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1 hour ago, sak22 said:

When was this?  

 

Two or three games in his rookie season.  It worked.  They can't have that though.  Must go back to Gaudreau-Monahan.

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21 minutes ago, ABC923 said:

I still say it’s early. He’s currently playing in playoff mode, and may rack it up the rest of the season, but the real test is next season. Will he continue being a ppl player, or drop back to career norms? Playing with Huberdeau definitely helps. Duclaire has put up 9 points in the last 7 games too, is he also an elite talent or just on a hot streak?

Very early. As you said its a small sample size so far plus it will be a couple years at least until we see how the return pieces pan out.  If either of those turn out to be at least as good as Benny was here then you're still ahead in the deal.

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43 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

Two or three games in his rookie season.  It worked.  They can't have that though.  Must go back to Gaudreau-Monahan.

Did it I really don't remember.  A lot gets made of the 4 goal game, but looking at it again they were on the ice for 1 goal.  It was the only point Jankowski recorded on a line with Gaudreau that season.  Also those are some ugly goals against a team that didn't really care.  So I don't know what backs up Jankowski and Gaudreau working other than 1 goal.  

 

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50 minutes ago, sak22 said:

Did it I really don't remember.  A lot gets made of the 4 goal game, but looking at it again they were on the ice for 1 goal.  It was the only point Jankowski recorded on a line with Gaudreau that season.  Also those are some ugly goals against a team that didn't really care.  So I don't know what backs up Jankowski and Gaudreau working other than 1 goal.  

 

 

Point is, there are plenty of ugly games with Gaudreau-Monahan but they always go back to it the next game.  We never really explored other combinations with any level of seriousness.

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26 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

Point is, there are plenty of ugly games with Gaudreau-Monahan but they always go back to it the next game.  We never really explored other combinations with any level of seriousness.

I've agreed with the need for a split for a long time, Jankowski was just never an option for a different role IMO.

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7 hours ago, travel_dude said:

 

Lwt's not lose sight of a few things.

 

We don't have the players that ever complemented Bennett.  While Gaudreau may be as skilled, he is not a complete player like Huberdeau.  Tkachuk is a similar style to Bennett, so it's not complementary.  As an individual player, he struggled to raise his game.  We saw glimses of it, just not prolonged growth.

 

Thachuk is playing with a different C.  He has struggled this year in the last two months.  That is on him and nobody else.  The reasons may be the fault of leadership or the coach, but he has struggled.  He was given an escalating contract because he was improving each year.  He's stagnated.  Calls to trade him are focused on the struggle.  If he's injured, then that's a decent enough reason not to.    

 

Most appropriate spelling mistake EVER lol  😅

 

I would argue the first two letters said it all.   We need more left wingers.  Clearly.

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Y'all I hope we all know we're saying we shoulda tried more line combos and that we just fired the coach who was doing that to everyone's applaud (who also had a better record than the current one this year).

 

Not that any of this means much, just saying we shouldn't lose sight of the basics.

 

Aweful development

Bizarre LW stockpiling

Literally putting our best potential on 4th and 3rd lines for Years and years and years and years until finally other teams figure that out for us.

Old School "Win Now think later" mentality that has zero asset management past the next game ahead of us.

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19 minutes ago, jjgallow said:

 

Y'all I hope we all know we're saying we shoulda tried more line combos and that we just fired the coach who was doing that to everyone's applaud (who also had a better record than the current one this year).

 

Not that any of this means much, just saying we shouldn't lose sigh of the basics.

 

Aweful development

Bizarre LW stockpiling

Literally putting our best potential on 4th and 3rd lines for Years and years and years and years until finally other teams figure that out for us.

Old School "Win Now think later" mentality that has zero asset management past the next game ahead of us.

 

How many coaches have decided that Bennett shall play a certain role and even though they experimented, went back to the tried and (not) true.

BT deserves a lot of the blame, but let's not forget that BH, Gully, BP, and Wardo put him where they wanted him.

While I don't think that any of them were the greatest coaches, they saw a lot of things that may have made them go a certain way.

We don't see practices, camp, locker room.

 

Aweful, is that full of awe?

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2 hours ago, The_People1 said:

 

Point is, there are plenty of ugly games with Gaudreau-Monahan but they always go back to it the next game.  We never really explored other combinations with any level of seriousness.

 

I agree with this, but it's worth pointing out that this really only became an issue last year. Up until the end of 2019 Gaudreau-Monahan were one of, and at points THEE, most productive pair in the entire league year after year. It was not illogically to keep them together during that stretch. 

 

But I do agree that last year it was clear there were issues and nothing was done and after last year playoffs, where Bennett showed you he could still be a good center, I thought it made a ton of sense to try him with Gaudreau in training camp and was never done. Not sure that changes anything though. 

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Its very simple;  they cant shift the paradigm - same thing every year and expect a different result.

 

Chucky is not the issue

 

Look at the size of the team, look at the toughness of the team - are they hard to play against.....  we have all been calling this crap out for years.   This isn't the Swedish elite league.  

 

BT has been GM for 7 years.  The coaching line up above of Gully, BP and Wardo is laughable and likely is the biggest issue but unfortunately now we have to deal with a negative culture.  I think we had many good pieces, BT has been good on the deal but man did the Wardo world kill the mojo of this team.  They need more Sutter .... they need more size, many components are young.   Its time to mix it up and get some of the old blood upstairs and downstairs gone.  
 

 

 

 

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On 4/28/2021 at 1:46 PM, ABC923 said:

I still say it’s early. He’s currently playing in playoff mode, and may rack it up the rest of the season, but the real test is next season. Will he continue being a ppl player, or drop back to career norms? Playing with Huberdeau definitely helps. Duclaire has put up 9 points in the last 7 games too, is he also an elite talent or just on a hot streak?

I'm surprised that you keep reiterating this. This has gotta be the 5th time.

We get it. Stop being bitter, he's a young player given a great new opportunity.

Your posts smell like you blame him for the team.

Speak your mind and stop alluding to him being junk in the end.

It's not fair, be a good sport.

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23 minutes ago, conundrumed said:

I'm surprised that you keep reiterating this. This has gotta be the 5th time.

We get it. Stop being bitter, he's a young player given a great new opportunity.

Your posts smell like you blame him for the team.

Speak your mind and stop alluding to him being junk in the end.

It's not fair, be a good sport.

Fair enough. Since you don’t like reading the same points getting regurgitated, I’ll summarize the other points for you as well.

-Sam Bennett was hosed

-Coaches we’re bad

-Organization was focused on win now to the team’s detriment

-Sam is awesome now and we will rue the day we traded him

Thread done. 😏
 

FWIW, I am bitter about a lot this season, so I’ll step out since I don’t mean to bring everyone down. I was high on Sam even earlier this season, so I’m frustrated by the way things went down. 

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On 4/28/2021 at 7:01 AM, jjgallow said:

 

 

Yup.   I mean it's early.   But...those consecutive multi-point games, and he's still so young.

 

Again, I like this trade.   Is it a good trade?    Nah we can see now it's gonna turn out right aweful lol.

 

But.... management/ownership Cannot hide from this and it's about time because I'm soooo sick of their excuses and the excuses people make for their complete idiocy.

 

And ...since we likely gonna be forced to sell off more players....everyone will up their bids now lol

It’s funny that about 2 months ago I was saying put Bennett on line 2 Crt and watch him excel...now look at him in Fla!

 

It’s time for fans and more So mgt to take a hard shot of reality...

 

the reality is:

 

1. Monahan is a great Ctr 

2. Gaudreau is too small and we simply don’t have enough size to keep him successful 

3. again on the size issue, Manji, Dube and Gaudreau are great but 3 super small players is far too many pick one trade the rest..love them all but..

3. Gio is too long in the tooth, move him to line 3 or better still trade him and get something for him

4. We should have kept Bennet and traded Backlund...but that’s a mistake, however, trade Backlund now before he’s worth nothing

5.Tachuck is still the future, let’s not ruin him like Bennett, rather let’s get him on the top line with Monahan and Lindholm...then build a solid second line which, to be honest should have been Around Bennett.

6. the D is not so bad just need to be paired better with:

Hanifin/Tanev 

Valimaki/Anderson

gio (or 2021 first)/Kylington

Stone (solid #7 filler)

 

lots of work to do, but if done right, could only take a year or two to turn it around...enter BT to ruin this by keeping Gio and Backlund, Gaudreau...maybe trading Hanifin and Kylington...bring in some more small players etc...it’s pretty predictable cause that’s al he’s done!

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9 minutes ago, ABC923 said:

Fair enough. Since you don’t like reading the same points getting regurgitated, I’ll summarize the other points for you as well.

-Sam Bennett was hosed

-Coaches we’re bad

-Organization was focused on win now to the team’s detriment

-Sam is awesome now and we will rue the day we traded him

Thread done. 😏
 

FWIW, I am bitter about a lot this season, so I’ll step out since I don’t mean to bring everyone down. I was high on Sam even earlier this season, so I’m frustrated by the way things went down. 

It's just oh well. You could well be right about him. No reason to cheer against him is all. I hope he has a good career.

No hard feelings.

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