Jump to content
The Official Site of the Calgary Flames
jjgallow

This requires an overhaul, not an adjustment

Recommended Posts

8 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

Who do you think we can get from the Flyers for Gaudreau?

 

;)

 

A couple thoughts:

 

I think you would get Provorov and Joel Farabee.

 

But I wouldn't limit it to the Flyers and I would also think they'd consider a package deal where we offer more than Gaudreau and get an even better player than him.

 

I also think 2020 first round picks are winners.  Potential Crosby coming out of that draft

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Chill out guys, even the Avs took a few years to get to where they are playing now, we are only 1 year into the same formula...

 

true there are areas for fixing, but the core is still young and learning...there are however some areas that need to be addressed, some can be from within like adopting an win/win mentality first and foremost

 

second, no days off, even if you are in the post season early, gotta keep the motor running...idle takes too long to get back up to speed.

 

and there are of course some player changes needed, love Gio but how much dose he have left?

 

Brodie and stone are other things to ponder for upgrading maybe?

 

replacing smith is pretty much a give, question is who? 

 

And then hen there are some questions about Backlund/frolick etc...they are great but maybe best suited down a line..could Tachuck/Bennet and a power RW be better suited for 2nd line? Probably...although our top line is far from a 1A it’s def a 1B line and if we could manage to upgrade that 2nd line to a 1B that’s even better I think then a 1a and 2a line built team 

 

backlund/frolik on the 3rd with another hard nose player with defensive play would be really good, maybe Janks or someone else or we could look at bovine both and doing a full makeover on the 3rd maybe start building that line around Janks? Maybe Mags and Janks and then another tough speedy Rw power forward type? 

 

as for the 4th line Ryan is fine, so to is Mags and all the others

 

Neil has to go, he’s just not a fit here...great player and all just not here sadly   

 

Anyway there is is a ton of good young core guys no need to blow everything up, just some modifications would do, that and they need to learn how to play hard starting on day 1 of the season and keep it going ALL year long, no days off even during the breaks 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think you just told us to chill out and trade the entire team except for Gaudreau?  Lol

 

I'm in!

 

(But trade Gaudreau too)

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, MP5029 said:

Chill out guys, even the Avs took a few years to get to where they are playing now, we are only 1 year into the same formula...

 

true there are areas for fixing, but the core is still young and learning...there are however some areas that need to be addressed, some can be from within like adopting an win/win mentality first and foremost

 

second, no days off, even if you are in the post season early, gotta keep the motor running...idle takes too long to get back up to speed.

 

and there are of course some player changes needed, love Gio but how much dose he have left?

 

Brodie and stone are other things to ponder for upgrading maybe?

 

replacing smith is pretty much a give, question is who? 

 

And then hen there are some questions about Backlund/frolick etc...they are great but maybe best suited down a line..could Tachuck/Bennet and a power RW be better suited for 2nd line? Probably...although our top line is far from a 1A it’s def a 1B line and if we could manage to upgrade that 2nd line to a 1B that’s even better I think then a 1a and 2a line built team 

 

backlund/frolik on the 3rd with another hard nose player with defensive play would be really good, maybe Janks or someone else or we could look at bovine both and doing a full makeover on the 3rd maybe start building that line around Janks? Maybe Mags and Janks and then another tough speedy Rw power forward type? 

 

as for the 4th line Ryan is fine, so to is Mags and all the others

 

Neil has to go, he’s just not a fit here...great player and all just not here sadly   

 

Anyway there is is a ton of good young core guys no need to blow everything up, just some modifications would do, that and they need to learn how to play hard starting on day 1 of the season and keep it going ALL year long, no days off even during the breaks 

-  These are pro players that should have that mentality ingrained into them already.

 

-  Unless his #'s plummet substantially he's still worth more to the team than what's on the scoresheet.

 

-  If you don't know the answer then it's not really a given is it?

 

-  Not 1A? This was the the most dominant line for the majority of the first half of the season.

 

-  There's a few (including me) that aren't convinced Janko deserving of a line being built around him.

 

-  Bad season and 5.5+ for another 4 years means any offer for him would probably end with the Flames getting hosed in the deal.

 

 

Everyone's got their opinion on what went wrong, who's to blame and how to fix it. Nothing will change if the coaching hasn't learned anything from this entire season. #1 PP went from near the top to near bottom because other teams adjusted and ours didn't. Towards the end getting behind early almost guaranteed a loss once a team clamped down the blue line. Somehow even GG had them believe they could get back from behind a couple seasons ago (alot of times they did). If Peters needs to start getting a bit more charged after a crap period/game then so be it. Obviously the talent is there.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So here's a question. Since the issue seemed to start around the ASG, last year this happened too, could conditioning be part of the issue?  Last fall Frolik (31 y.o.)was in top condition and I've heard Gio (35 y.o.) is usually up there too. Are these younger players coming into camp worse off than players 10, 15 years ago? Or are they sacrificing durability and conditioning for speed and agility?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
41 minutes ago, flames-fan-in-jets-land said:

So here's a question. Since the issue seemed to start around the ASG, last year this happened too, could conditioning be part of the issue?  Last fall Frolik (31 y.o.)was in top condition and I've heard Gio (35 y.o.) is usually up there too. Are these younger players coming into camp worse off than players 10, 15 years ago? Or are they sacrificing durability and conditioning for speed and agility?

 

Or you mean, are Millennials spoiled brats lacking self-discipline and inner drive?

 

 

 

...Umm, yes.  Duh!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
18 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

Or you mean, are Millennials spoiled brats lacking self-discipline and inner drive?

 

 

 

...Umm, yes.  Duh!

I'm not gonna lump all the young players together but why does a team go from hot to cold while teams like the Avs and Canes (who also have mellenials) gain momentum as the season progresses?

 

Also I don't think any player regardless (irregardless) of talent gets to the bigs without drive and commitment. Every team has a mix of vets and rooks, not every team peters out before the playoffs.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 hours ago, flames-fan-in-jets-land said:

I'm not gonna lump all the young players together but why does a team go from hot to cold while teams like the Avs and Canes (who also have mellenials) gain momentum as the season progresses?

 

Also I don't think any player regardless (irregardless) of talent gets to the bigs without drive and commitment. Every team has a mix of vets and rooks, not every team peters out before the playoffs.

 

I'm not sure, but sometimes when teams go from out of the playoffs to top of the division, there is a letdown near the end of the season.

It's only natural.  Your first goal is the playoffs.

 

I tend to think there was a lack of adjustment that went along with it.

We had one look going into the series.

No other options had been explored.

The big change was Gio-Brodie to Gio-Ras.

And Fantenberg to Valimaki.

 

The 3M line was tasked to shut down their top line.

They didn't do that.

That's only part of the reason.

The team sat back and did not play the game that won them the division.

They played like the team that finished the season.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

I'm not sure, but sometimes when teams go from out of the playoffs to top of the division, there is a letdown near the end of the season.

It's only natural.  Your first goal is the playoffs.

 

I tend to think there was a lack of adjustment that went along with it.

We had one look going into the series.

No other options had been explored.

The big change was Gio-Brodie to Gio-Ras.

And Fantenberg to Valimaki.

 

The 3M line was tasked to shut down their top line.

They didn't do that.

That's only part of the reason.

The team sat back and did not play the game that won them the division.

They played like the team that finished the season.

 

 

I guess, you are pointing the finger at the team and I'm pointing it at management.

 

I just can't understand why anyone would think Gaudreau would ever be effective in the playoffs.  I'm all for underdogs, but we've been through this before.

 

And I'm not blaming Gaudreau.   Nor would I blame myself if they asked me to lead the team into the playoffs  ;)

 

Yet clearly, management either thought so (incompetence) or didn't care (worse, and also possible).

 

 

Playing injured goalies and key centers  (Rittich and Monahan) just to get a division title.  Whoopty do.    Aweful.  Zero excuse for that.

          And I don't buy that "oh it was that type of injury you can totally play through" - meanwhile they were useless in the playoffs and are taking the summer off to heal.

 

Going into the playoffs without a cup-winning goalie:   Why show up?             Yes, Smith was miles ahead of the rest of the team but that is not saying much.    And our plan to have a cup-winning goalie?  or even an actual goalie coach?  none.

 

And defence......  championships are won with defence and I feel like the only reason we have defencemen on the Flames at all is because league rules won't allow 5 forwards.

 

 

So, I Don't blame the team.   It just was never designed to win in the playoffs.     I didn't think it could win in the regular season.  I was wrong.  But this, is actually worse.  No we're getting low draft picks and also zero chance in playoffs.

 

Management.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 hours ago, jjgallow said:

 

So, I Don't blame the team.   It just was never designed to win in the playoffs.     I didn't think it could win in the regular season.  I was wrong.  But this, is actually worse.  No we're getting low draft picks and also zero chance in playoffs.

 

 

You know what surprised me more than the Flames losing so easily in the first round is Tampa getting swept in historical fashion.  Everyone wants to attach a reason for this outcome and wants to establish a theory for it.  Was it that both teams were too small?  Too nice?  Didn't play meaningful hockey down the stretch?  Drank their own hype?  Became over-confident?... is it really bad team design?

 

It's baffling how a team can be so dominant over 82-games and then lose 4 straight after that... and not just lose 4 straight but lost in a way where they weren't even in the games.  Tampa got blown out.  Flames were lucky to even get games into OT.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

3/4's the way through the season TBL and CGY quit playing like a team and started padding player stats.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, redfire11 said:

3/4's the way through the season TBL and CGY quit playing like a team and started padding player stats.

 

either that or they couldn't handle the onset of real hockey.

 

management playing injured players probably didn't do wonders either.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, jjgallow said:

 

either that or they couldn't handle the onset of real hockey.

 

management playing injured players probably didn't do wonders either.

 

Yup, other teams sit their injuries. 

 

But I agree, I think it’s mostly a compete thing and can’t handle the hard hockey. And I guess that’s really what I mean by heavier. Guys lean on you more and get in lanes and make it tough. We don’t do that as a team. We’re an easy bunch to play. Nobody is scared of the Flames. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
23 hours ago, The_People1 said:

 

Dang it, I just missed being a member of the most privileged generation in civilization's history.

The boomers?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
28 minutes ago, ABC923 said:

The boomers?

 

The Boomers and the Warreners... 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I guess what I'm trying to say, guys,

 

Is we need a 5-player swap with Toronto.

 

 

 

 

 

 

.....because I'm still convinced Gary Leeman was the first Millenial.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, jjgallow said:

I guess what I'm trying to say, guys,

 

Is we need a 5-player swap with Toronto.

 

 

 

 

 

 

.....because I'm still convinced Gary Leeman was the first Millenial.

 

I think Al Iafrate was sleeping with his wife? As the reason they traded him. Quite the mind Blockchain if you ask me. Teammate is sleeping with your wife and the team chooses them over you. He probably needed an emotional/stress leave.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 2019-04-20 at 2:27 PM, jjgallow said:

 

Flames had a choice when they assembled this team, they could have developed Monahan into a dominant player in the AHL and then brought him up, or they could have developed him as a supporting player in the NHL.   They choose the latter, because they were in "win now" mode lol.

 

We need to take a step back and determine what the fans priorities are.     If that's the regular season, then, the Flames really nailed this rebuild.

It has nothing to do with the fans priorities.

 

The Owners have always supported a rebuild with one caveat.  Make the playoffs at all costs.

 

This is the reason we are where we are. Management is free to take the team through a rebuild with full budget as long as Flames make the playoffs.

 

BT made the choices he did because he saw progress. He did basically nothing at trade deadline because the team he has assembled performed beyond just about everyone's expectations during the regular season.

 

BT did not see the needed changes. He is a hands on guy that doesn't hear/see the problems until after the results. Hindsight is 50/50 after the fact.

 

I agree wih JJ on most of his points.

We don't developed goalies and cling to our goalie coach and his methods like he was a god(guru according to George Johnson). BT Sticks with the status quo. He could have had Fleury.. He passed at the asking price... BT is a budget GM. too frugal to buy a competant long term goalie so we wander in the desert looking for a rookie or bargain to step up.

We need a bigger stronger #1center that will bump all our centers down. Until we are ready to move on from the 3M line I don't see our top 6 improving much.

BT will tweak it however. Neal was supposed to be that for 1st line RW. 

 

I disagree with JJ on the D however. All our D prospects that were given a chance stepped up this season. They are young and need more time is all. I just don't see a need to break down the D. We gave up Hamilton and tried Brodie back in his old spot on right side top D. We can move him down the pairings but he has not responded well to that solution in the past.

 

I am of the opinion we need a top line center and a top 6 RW. We need to find and pay for a true #1 goalie. Has to be now and before next expansion draft. Then we need to tweak the D. Anyone who plays with Gio excels and looks better. Our youth is not ready for top 4 yet.

There is more but this is good place to start.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, DirtyDeeds said:

I am of the opinion we need a top line center and a top 6 RW. We need to find and pay for a true #1 goalie. Has to be now and before next expansion draft. Then we need to tweak the D. Anyone who plays with Gio excels and looks better. Our youth is not ready for top 4 yet.

There is more but this is good place to start.


Finding a goalie is not going to be easy.

Smth is not the answer.

Don;t want to rewind the season.

2 years.

Starts like gangbusters, then falls off a cliff after being overplayed and injured.

Starts like crap and manags to play the season out on a winning record.

Been there.

 

I tend to agree about the affect of the goalie coach.  Rittich was fine, then was coached into playing like he doesn;t.

 

We may not be able to land a #1C.  Not many are for sale.  Maybe the closest is Duchene as a FA.

We could use Brodie to land a #1C.  Might have to add Bennett to the deal.

Replacing him may not be as tough as it sounds.

Myers is available, amd probably won;t get $6m.

Not that Myers is that great, but he can move and might be able to contain players better than Brodie.

 

Could add some a couple of mid-range guys on RW.

Donskoi is headed to be a UFA.

As is Connolly.

 

I don;t think we have to go crazy and dump the lot.  Replace Brodie, Frolik and maybe Janko and Bennett.

Add in a couple RHS, including one on D.

 

Just some random thoughts.  I don;t think we need to blow it up.  Add some guys with some playoffs heart maybe.

As frustrating as it is watching Backlund in the playoffs, the alternative is to trade him for an offensive C.

Then you still need that guy to play the hard minutes.

I wasn;t impressed with his playoffs.

 

Oops.  More randoms thoughts.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I wonder if Lou takes a run at signing Panarin and Bobrovsky, that should make Lehner available as a UFA. I would try to sign him. I also like Mrazek. 

 

The biggest issue with signing another goalie is cost. How much cap space can we afford to dedicate to goaltending? With Rittich getting a raise to somewhere around the $2.5m-3.5m range, I think we have to keep the 2nd goalie around the same range or lower.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
25 minutes ago, JTech780 said:

I wonder if Lou takes a run at signing Panarin and Bobrovsky, that should make Lehner available as a UFA. I would try to sign him. I also like Mrazek. 

 

The biggest issue with signing another goalie is cost. How much cap space can we afford to dedicate to goaltending? With Rittich getting a raise to somewhere around the $2.5m-3.5m range, I think we have to keep the 2nd goalie around the same range or lower.

 

Lehner and Mrazek will be getting big raises.

Especially Lehner.

Don't get me wrong, he would be a good target.

 

I think we have to save money where we can.

Too much spend on defense with Gio/Brodie/Hanifin/Hamonic/Stone and the guys making less than a million.

Ryan is worth what we pay, but we can't pay for bottom 6 at that rate.

Neal has to be top 6 or he's killing the cap.

Bennett has to be top 6 or he's not providing enough value to deserve a raise.

Same for Janko.

Same for Frolik.  He's been a steady force since he got here, but the 3M line is probably being re-worked.

 

We have to make some sacrifices somewhere.

Probably a good time as any to integrate full time Kylington (or Valimaki), Mangiapane, Dube.

I can only hope that any high level UFA's we sign (if any) see us move out salary for picks/prospects.

Ot that any trades involve excess for quality players.

 

I would move out the like of Brodie, Frolik, Janko and Bennett and the 1st rounder if we brought back a top C, a decent RW and a RHS D-man.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Keeping the cap in mind we currently have $10,156,626 in available space next year. We have no goalies under contract, and still need to resign Chucky, Bennett, Mangiapane, and Hathaway. 

 

We may be able to move one or two dmen but in doing so we may not be free up space do to contracts coming back.

 

The most likely thing to happen will be a few pieces being added to Brodie, maybe Stone, or Jankowski. 

I truly do not want to lose Jankowski at all. Having the knowledge of our cap situation I fully expect other teams to fleece us in any move we try to make. Brodie won't bring a high return, he may bring a third line depth player or a player coming off a down year. I could see Hamonic being the one moved just because of the fact that Brodie will be cheaper on there next contracts, and Hamonic does have a higher value currently.

Stone will be hard to move. We will end up retaining salary or adding a good prospect to get something done if at all possible.

 

After signing Tkachuk we will have maybe 2-2.5 mil to sign Bennett, Hathaway, Mangiapane, and 2 goalies.

 

There will be some very angry fans in Calgary before the pre season starts and these fan pages will get lit up with every over opinionated fan like myself venting every angry or overly happy thought at what BT does. 

 

I CAN'T WAIT!!!!!!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
42 minutes ago, JTech780 said:

I wonder if Lou takes a run at signing Panarin and Bobrovsky, that should make Lehner available as a UFA. I would try to sign him. I also like Mrazek. 

 

It sounds like Panarin and Bob to Florida is the worst kept secret this summer.  I remember hearing either Panarin or Bob already has a summer vacation home in Miami so that's one of the leading factors.  Well, let's not kid ourselves, Miami is a beautiful place in general so who doesn't want to go there.

 

FLA doesn't need to trim cap.  They have $18-mil for both.  

 

Luongo is 40 so might retire (still 4 years remaining on his contract).  if he doesn't then maybe they part with Reimer if anyone wants a veteran backup.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...