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2019-20 ROSTER PLANNING

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9 hours ago, kehatch said:

 

See above.  Bennett wasn't left with the Backlund line because it was less effective with him on it.  The NHL is not a development league.  Players are not given top 6 times without merit. The alternate universe to evaluate is "what if Bennett played well enough to stay on the Backlund line for the entire season". But he didn't.  And that isn't on the coaches, his third line line mates, or anyone else except for Sam Bennett.  

You can have your opinions on Bennett which is fine. Here is what I know and see regarding Bennett. He isn't a playmaker himself yet he tries to make up for it by doing it all himself. He has C instincts and carries the puck well for offensive zone entries and is tenacious on the puck. This tells me he needs to play with a playmaker (Tkachuk) as a C and together they need a sniper type on RW. I understand the NHL is not a development league (smart mouth) however it is also not a league where one stops learning and growing when put in the proper alignment to bring out one's talents. I believe the Flames have failed miserably with a number of players by utilizing them incorrectly. I know where you stand and now you know where I stand.

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10 hours ago, kehatch said:

A disturbing trend with Bennett, and his has been for his career, is the goals against.  His goals against per 60-minutes played (GA/60) is near the top of the team.  When you have a depth player playing pretty sheltered minutes, putting up limited offense, and taking lots of PIMS you expect that GA to be DOWN.  Which sums up the player.  His PIMS and GA make him a liability, and he doesn't provide the upside to make up for it.  If he can't get his offense going or get the issues under control then he doesn't have an NHL career ahead of him.  

 

 

Nailed it.

 

I believe he was actually taken off the Backlund - Tkachuk line because he was picking up so many undisciplined PIMs.  He may have been benched for a game even, i can't remember exactly, but definitely demoted.  

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Monahan had Hudler for two years of mentoring, then was ready for full time with Gaudreau. 

Bennett had one year with Backlund, and then left to the wolves. Tkachuk had three years with Backs. 

 

 Baertschi should’ve gone straight to the minors, Granlund could’ve spent more time down. Bennett should’ve played C in the AHL and been developed. 

 

I don’t know if Dube was going to stick, but once play got real he wasn’t able to. I am glad he went down to Stockton. He got pushed around a lot but doesn’t play soft. I think he was close to ready, but smallish.

 

The difference though with others is that other prospects don’t have the high end pedigree, like Mangiapane did the right amount of time down and started up at the right amount of time. 

 

I think we see what its like when the roster isnt full, and it hasn’t been yet. The 3rd line is a big problem. 

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1 hour ago, robrob74 said:

Monahan had Hudler for two years of mentoring, then was ready for full time with Gaudreau. 

Bennett had one year with Backlund, and then left to the wolves. Tkachuk had three years with Backs. 

 

 Baertschi should’ve gone straight to the minors, Granlund could’ve spent more time down. Bennett should’ve played C in the AHL and been developed. 

 

I don’t know if Dube was going to stick, but once play got real he wasn’t able to. I am glad he went down to Stockton. He got pushed around a lot but doesn’t play soft. I think he was close to ready, but smallish.

 

The difference though with others is that other prospects don’t have the high end pedigree, like Mangiapane did the right amount of time down and started up at the right amount of time. 

 

I think we see what its like when the roster isnt full, and it hasn’t been yet. The 3rd line is a big problem. 

 

Bennett got about as sheltered as he could in the NHL.

If you have a good season one year then don't justify the top 6 minutes the next, you are going to fall down in the roster.

Bennett's bad habits for lazy penalties has added to that.

He used to take them when he lost a faceoff, by hooking the player.

Soft call, but real ones.

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47 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

Bennett got about as sheltered as he could in the NHL.

If you have a good season one year then don't justify the top 6 minutes the next, you are going to fall down in the roster.

Bennett's bad habits for lazy penalties has added to that.

He used to take them when he lost a faceoff, by hooking the player.

Soft call, but real ones.

 

Sheltering still isn’t developing. Players can develop at the NHL level, but some need to play AHL. Bennett needed the AHL.

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4 hours ago, robrob74 said:

 

Sheltering still isn’t developing. Players can develop at the NHL level, but some need to play AHL. Bennett needed the AHL.

That's all water under the bridge.  He'll have an opportunity this season and we'll see if he can make the jump up the line-up.

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The problem with the Calgary Flames last season (outside of regular season net) was its third line. It needs to be fixed, and swapping Neal for Lucic probably isn't the fix.  

 

Option 1 is to address the position via a trade, but that is unlikely given the time of season and the Flames cap/asset constraints.  

 

Option 2 is to pull from the top 6.  For example, working around pairs of Gaudreau/Monahan, Backlund/Frolik, and Lindholm/Tkachuk, But the Flames have been very reluctant to Take Lindholm off the top line.  In fact, of the almost 1000 minutes Lindholm played 5 on 5, only 141 of those was without both of those guys.  So this is unlikely.  

 

The more realistic option is to find a decent third line with the players that the Flames have.  The simplest option may be to put Ryan on the third line as a C.  Ryan quietly put up 38 points and a plus 24 rating while bouncing all over the line-up.  The question is then who plays with him.  Bennett, Dube, Mangiapane, Lucic, and Czarnik are all realistic options.  The easy answer is Bennett-Ryan-Lucic based on contract / pedigree, but I think some of the other guys on that list may prove to be a better fit in camp.  

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8 minutes ago, kehatch said:

The problem with the Calgary Flames last season (outside of regular season net) was its third line. It needs to be fixed, and swapping Neal for Lucic probably isn't the fix.  

 

Option 1 is to address the position via a trade, but that is unlikely given the time of season and the Flames cap/asset constraints.  

 

Option 2 is to pull from the top 6.  For example, working around pairs of Gaudreau/Monahan, Backlund/Frolik, and Lindholm/Tkachuk, But the Flames have been very reluctant to Take Lindholm off the top line.  In fact, of the almost 1000 minutes Lindholm played 5 on 5, only 141 of those was without both of those guys.  So this is unlikely.  

 

The more realistic option is to find a decent third line with the players that the Flames have.  The simplest option may be to put Ryan on the third line as a C.  Ryan quietly put up 38 points and a plus 24 rating while bouncing all over the line-up.  The question is then who plays with him.  Bennett, Dube, Mangiapane, Lucic, and Czarnik are all realistic options.  The easy answer is Bennett-Ryan-Lucic based on contract / pedigree, but I think some of the other guys on that list may prove to be a better fit in camp.  

 

I think Lucic with Bennett is a huge mistake.

Both take too many penalties.

Give Lucic 4th lne minutes and 2nd PP time, maybe even 1st PP time.

The easiest fix to the 3rd line is use Bennett at C, with Ryan taking strong side draws.

Use Mangiapane with them on LW.

Mangiapane/Ryan was productive.

Giving Bennett some passing options wouldn't hurt.

Mangiapane gets the puck on net, which is where Bennett needs to go for leftovers.

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4 hours ago, travel_dude said:

 

I think Lucic with Bennett is a huge mistake.

Both take too many penalties.

Give Lucic 4th lne minutes and 2nd PP time, maybe even 1st PP time.

The easiest fix to the 3rd line is use Bennett at C, with Ryan taking strong side draws.

Use Mangiapane with them on LW.

Mangiapane/Ryan was productive.

Giving Bennett some passing options wouldn't hurt.

Mangiapane gets the puck on net, which is where Bennett needs to go for leftovers.

lucic on the forth line with Jankowski and czarnik would be my choice.. Bennett with ryan and dube would be mt\y third line.. johnny/monahan/lindstrom/tkachuk/backlund and mangiapane would be my top 6.. blend them up ..

 

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8 hours ago, travel_dude said:

 

I think Lucic with Bennett is a huge mistake.

Both take too many penalties.

Give Lucic 4th lne minutes and 2nd PP time, maybe even 1st PP time.

The easiest fix to the 3rd line is use Bennett at C, with Ryan taking strong side draws.

Use Mangiapane with them on LW.

Mangiapane/Ryan was productive.

Giving Bennett some passing options wouldn't hurt.

Mangiapane gets the puck on net, which is where Bennett needs to go for leftovers.

 

I am reserving my judgement on all of those players until camp. I wouldn't avoid Bennett and Lucic just because of minutes though. Having a tough and in your face physical line playing third line minutes is not a bad thing Imo. 

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Johnny / Mony / Lindholm

Tkachuk / Backlund / Mangiapane

Lucic / Ryan / Bennett

Dube / Jankowski / Frolik

 

Gio / Andersen

Hannifin / Hamonic

Kylington / Brodie

 

To me this makes us a solid team with potential to be even better than last year. Ryan is a better center thanJankowski and can create with his passing so maybe he get's a bit more out of Lucic then most would expect.Bennett playing with Lucic would be excitting to watch, we could call them the bash brother or net crashers...lol  Mangiapane is poised to produce at a high rate next season and with better line mates one can only wonder right.

 

 

In addition I do not think Lucic is going to disappoint anyone, I was never a huge fan of us playing against him and admit the last few years in Edm he under produced to put it lightly but the style of players he was lined up with was different than he had success with IMHO. I think if he does come in and just focuses on his game and get's back to the idea of playing on an actually GOOD team we will all be pleased, at the least we all should expect alot more effort from Lucic in the first game than the total effort Neal put forward the whole last season.

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3 hours ago, kehatch said:

I wouldn't avoid Bennett and Lucic just because of minutes though. Having a tough and in your face physical line playing third line minutes is not a bad thing Imo. 

 

I think that there is a very good chance that is what we will see to start the season...   Bennett and Lucic on the 3rd to give the opposition a line that should be tough to deal with...

 

If Lucic doesn't keep up with the expectations of his role there, then they will look at moving him to the 4th line...

 

 

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Reading the tea leaves a bit over the off-season i'm expecting to see this to start

 

Johnny - Mony - Lindy

Tkachuk - Backlund - Bennett

Lucic - Ryan - Mangiapange

Dube - Jankowski - Czarnik

(I am still suspecting Frolik gets dealt before the season starts)

 

Gio - Brodie

Hanifin - Hamonic

??? - Andersson

I'm not sure that last spot is on the roster right now

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2 minutes ago, cross16 said:

Reading the tea leaves a bit over the off-season i'm expecting to see this to start

 

Johnny - Mony - Lindy

Tkachuk - Backlund - Bennett

Lucic - Ryan - Mangiapange

Dube - Jankowski - Czarnik

(I am still suspecting Frolik gets dealt before the season starts)

 

Gio - Brodie

Hanifin - Hamonic

??? - Andersson

I'm not sure that last spot is on the roster right now

 

I can get behind those lines. 

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2 hours ago, cross16 said:

Reading the tea leaves a bit over the off-season i'm expecting to see this to start

 

Johnny - Mony - Lindy

Tkachuk - Backlund - Bennett

Lucic - Ryan - Mangiapange

Dube - Jankowski - Czarnik

(I am still suspecting Frolik gets dealt before the season starts)

 

Gio - Brodie

Hanifin - Hamonic

??? - Andersson

I'm not sure that last spot is on the roster right now

 

??? = Kylington. 

 

Not going to give it to him?  Why?  He looked NHL ready last season.  Peters was also happy using him so... 

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5 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

??? = Kylington. 

 

Not going to give it to him?  Why?  He looked NHL ready last season.  Peters was also happy using him so... 

 

Could be and it's how I would start. It's just my gut feel that I'm not sure that spot is on the roster. 

 

I found Peters was ok to use him, but he was frustrated with some of the play in his own zone. Kylington was hard to trust in certain situation last year. 

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4 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

??? = Kylington. 

 

Not going to give it to him?  Why?  He looked NHL ready last season.  Peters was also happy using him so... 

 

Kylington looked NHL ready as long as he was facing other teams bottom 6. He was put in an extremely sheltered role. If you want to roll 3 pairings you can't have one pairing that needs to be consistently sheltered, you can do it for a stretch, but if you can't to stay competitive long term you need to be able to roll all 3 pairings. That's why McDonald is here on a PTO and I wouldn't be surprised to see another PTO or signing before camp for that 3rd pairing spot.

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I wonder if BT has interest in Markov, he's old but probably still a serviceable NHLer and can still run a 2nd unit PP. Question will be whether he stays in MTL or not and can we afford him

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6 hours ago, Thebrewcrew said:

I wonder if BT has interest in Markov, he's old but probably still a serviceable NHLer and can still run a 2nd unit PP. Question will be whether he stays in MTL or not and can we afford him

 

But can't Anderson or Hanifin run a 2nd unit PP?  Brodie even?

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Fun Fact: Andrew Magiapane’s eight ES goals post-all-star break last year was just one less than Connor McDavid and Nathan MacKinnon, the same as Steven Stamkos, Mark Scheifele and Sidney Crosby, two more than Alex Ovechkin and Johnny Gaudreau, and twice as many as Brayden Point.

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On 9/2/2019 at 1:41 AM, The_People1 said:

 

But can't Anderson or Hanifin run a 2nd unit PP?  Brodie even?

 

yes but alot of that will depend on if they run 1 D or 2. The first unit was mostly 4-1 (forwards vs D) but if they want to run 3-2 again, your an injury away from being really limited. Kylington is an option but he comes with risk. 

 

I would have interest in Markov but on a PTO as i want to see what shape he is in. I would suspect Calgary and a PTO is not going to be high on his wish list though. 

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9 hours ago, cross16 said:

 

yes but alot of that will depend on if they run 1 D or 2. The first unit was mostly 4-1 (forwards vs D) but if they want to run 3-2 again, your an injury away from being really limited. Kylington is an option but he comes with risk. 

 

I would have interest in Markov but on a PTO as i want to see what shape he is in. I would suspect Calgary and a PTO is not going to be high on his wish list though. 

 

My bet is Montreal or NYR. Always seems to be the Rangers 

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I like the idea of Smith - Pelley on this team as our 4th line RW. High compete level, good skater, good checking forward.

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9 hours ago, GM_3300 said:

I like the idea of Smith - Pelley on this team as our 4th line RW. High compete level, good skater, good checking forward.

 

 

I would like that too. Feels like that is what the targets should’ve been over players like Brouwer and Neal (resulting in Lucic).

 

a part of Cap management should be knowing that the Flames needed to sign Tkachuk this year and not signing Neal last year. We’d have that cap required for the two RFAs plus a Smith-Pelley.

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2 hours ago, robrob74 said:

 

 

I would like that too. Feels like that is what the targets should’ve been over players like Brouwer and Neal (resulting in Lucic).

 

a part of Cap management should be knowing that the Flames needed to sign Tkachuk this year and not signing Neal last year. We’d have that cap required for the two RFAs plus a Smith-Pelley.

 

Some of the narrative around DSP is that he's a possession anchor.

Does that sound like the type of player we need?

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