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2019-2020 Training Camp

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17 minutes ago, Irocke99 said:

Best, player in camp should always win the spot regardless of their contract situation.

That sounds a little blankety to me, however, I do agree with your previous post. I did not watch Talbot play, but I understand that he was not impressive at all. I was again impressed with Zagidulin. He was pretty good at the August scrimmage and was again last night. We might have just hit the jackpot with that guy. If Talbot still have too much grease on him, then make the hard decision.

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1 hour ago, Irocke99 said:

Best, player in camp should always win the spot regardless of their contract situation.

 

Best Oiler last year in pre-season was Tye Rattie.

How did that work out?

 

The competition in pre-season is watered down at best.

You want your best players to look like they are getting ready for the real season.

You want to see top prospects or fringe NHL players battling and try to outplay the vets, but ultimately it will come down to best fit.

Are you going to waive a player like Janko because Dube outplayed him in a couple of games?

Not good asset management.

 

Zagadulin played a good 1/2 game against 1/2 a NHL roster, if that.

I'm excited what he can do in the AHL this year to see if we can eventually call him up.

 

So, let me put it in different terms.

The Flames have 12 forwards, 7D and 2 goalies good enough to be on the opening night roster.

With the PTO's and AHL or fringe NHL bodies, we might have another 4 forwards and 2D that could be on the roster.

It's not like those are big improvements over the guys that have spots carved out.

And they have really only looked good so far in one or two meaningless games.

 

If you decide to keep a waiver exempt player and waive another player, consider that you are possibly giving up a good player for one that may only play well for part of the season.  Hard decisions for sure.  Would you waive Bennett because 12 other forwards outplayed him in pre-season?  I doubt it.  If you did, you would be fired.

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I disagree a bit with the statement that the best player should ALWAYS win the spot regardless of contract. An 18 year old on an ELC who is still junior eligible who has top 6 potential who could benefit from another year in juniors to gain some leadership and extra responsibilities should not automatically get a spot over a 4th line grinder even though he outplays him at camp. Sometimes a good camp does not result in long term success. Bennett for example had a great first few games and has fallen off offensively since. Many people believe he would have benefitted from more seasoning in lower leagues before being relied on in the NHL. Sometimes sending the young guys down to work on small warts is better than having them try to just figure things out with the big club.

 

I know where you are going with the statement about Zagidulin and Dube for example. The issue is that camp is not always the best indicator of regular success. While Zag may be lights out so far, he may or may not be able to handle the pressure of coming over from Europe and jumping right in to a leading role in net through a full season while trying to adapt to living in North America and the travel that goes with an 82 game season. We don't always see what happens behind the scenes, in dressing rooms and personal lives. We sometimes find out after the fact when players crack under pressure and go off the deep end.

 

I am in no way stating that this issues WILL occur with any of our current crop of youngsters, but we have lost out on enough guys due to issues that were only discovered later. We almost didn't get Ferland at all, we lost out on Poirier due to personal issues with substance abuse that he couldn't shake. Had Poirier earned a spot due to pre-season play and then fallen to substance abuse having let someone else go, that would have been bad for the Flames.

 

Saying a player only makes the team due to contract may have some validity, but in all honesty we don't know the whole story as fans.

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18 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

Best Oiler last year in pre-season was Tye Rattie.

How did that work out?

 

The competition in pre-season is watered down at best.

You want your best players to look like they are getting ready for the real season.

You want to see top prospects or fringe NHL players battling and try to outplay the vets, but ultimately it will come down to best fit.

Are you going to waive a player like Janko because Dube outplayed him in a couple of games?

Not good asset management.

 

Zagadulin played a good 1/2 game against 1/2 a NHL roster, if that.

I'm excited what he can do in the AHL this year to see if we can eventually call him up.

 

So, let me put it in different terms.

The Flames have 12 forwards, 7D and 2 goalies good enough to be on the opening night roster.

With the PTO's and AHL or fringe NHL bodies, we might have another 4 forwards and 2D that could be on the roster.

It's not like those are big improvements over the guys that have spots carved out.

And they have really only looked good so far in one or two meaningless games.

 

If you decide to keep a waiver exempt player and waive another player, consider that you are possibly giving up a good player for one that may only play well for part of the season.  Hard decisions for sure.  Would you waive Bennett because 12 other forwards outplayed him in pre-season?  I doubt it.  If you did, you would be fired.

My guess is that he meant pre-season should be competitive. 

 

I agree that the sample size on Zagidulin is small and thus selective. I have not observed his play extensively, but what I have seen is encouraging. By contrast, I was not positively struck by Parsons' work.

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Actually I am happy to see Bennett looks great so far with Backs and Frolik, that would be a pretty amazing 3rd line if Chuck can move to the top line RW 

 

The only question is who to play with Lindholm and that also depends on if Lindholm can play Ctr still...however, could make for an interesting 2nd line with an awesome 3rd to follow it?

 

my only issue and major disagreement with what people are saying here is in regards o Taboit... I am extremely worried about this guy, he had what maybe 10 shots on him and let in what was it 3 or 4...and it was vs a weaken line up with rookies in it like we had... that money would have already had Tachuck signed...Taboit best start showing something ASAP because he’s turning into this years version of Neil who I didn’t like last year when he was signed...I’m getting the same feeling about Taboit 

 

I'm hopeful BT will stop these overpaid FA contracts and stick to what he is good at UFA’s and Trades 

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Roman, Wolf and Zavgorodniy returned to Junior. Hopefully given specific things they need to work on and develop for the future. Even with Wolf sent down, there are still 6 goalies at camp: Rittich, Talbot, Gilles, Zagidulin, Parsons, Schneider. Unless Talbot pulls an Eddie Lack and absolutely bombs out the rest of pre-season and the start of the regular season, it is likely that he and Rittich start the season with the big club. It seems to be more a competition between the other 4 as to who is AHL and who is ECHL. I would say that so far it is looking like Zagidulin starting with either Gilles or Schneider as backup. Parsons needs to have a big bounce back from the last half game to pass the others who haven't even played yet. If Gilles doesn't even make the AHL backup, I am guessing that he will find the door fairly quickly. Don't forget that Scheider and Parsons are only 21 and 22 so lots of room to grow and improve their games.

 

Talbot was only signed for 1 year and under 3 mil. If he really falters and cannot be traded, Zag can come up and Talbot waived. IF he is playing bad enough to be waived, it is unlikely he gets claimed and the Flames save SOME of his cap hit. He is then released next year. If the Talbot of old shows up and he does well, great. Whining and moping about his signing only makes noise, it won't accomplish anything. I feel better hoping he does well, rather than reserving myself to the fact that he will bomb. The Flames had no idea if Gilles or Zag would be able to handle the big club duties when they signed Talbot (Zag had yet to play a game on NA ice). If Zag keeps up his play and gets sent down, you know he will be on speed dial.

 

I will reserve my judgement until around the 20 game mark of the regular season to determine whether decisions made were good or bad.

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17 hours ago, travel_dude said:

In the home game, Brodie gave the puck away creating the 2 on 1 in OT.

He tried to pass it into a crowd.

 

 

ironically, is Brodie for Virtanen possible?  It would put VAN over cap as we stand.

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2 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

ironically, is Brodie for Virtanen possible?  It would put VAN over cap as we stand.

 

They are over as it is with 1.7m in used LTIR.

Which I find strange, since thye don't list anyone as injured.

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Another thing to keep in mind re:Talbot.  He came into the game half way through.  You still expect better, no doubt, but first preseason game of the season and you ride the pine for the first 30 minutes isn't a recipe for success.

 

Btw, Neal scored in his Oilers debut.

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18 minutes ago, ABC923 said:

 

Btw, Neal scored in his Oilers debut.

So, he's shown that he can score against minor league talent in preseason... Coiler fans must be planning the parade route already.

 

 

ps. I'm not worried about Talbot either. Give him some time to shake the rust off... the bronx cheer last night was kind of lame of the fans.

 

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13 minutes ago, ABC923 said:

Another thing to keep in mind re:Talbot.  He came into the game half way through.  You still expect better, no doubt, but first preseason game of the season and you ride the pine for the first 30 minutes isn't a recipe for success.

 

Btw, Neal scored in his Oilers debut.

 

I don't read much into a pre-season game.

Rittich let in 6 against EDM and 4 against SJS.

What does that prove?

 

Figure it out and be ready for the start of the season.

 

Oiler fans already seem to think Neal will score 25.

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9 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

Oiler fans already seem to think Neal will score 25.

 

I think Neal can hit 20-goals with enough PP minutes with McDavid.  Just think, Chiasson accomplished the same feat last season. 

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I watched the preseason game that was played in Van.

We have a bunch of good young player vying for a spot.

I was impressed with the speed of Reider and I think we have a really good goalie prospect in Zag.

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16 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

I think Neal can hit 20-goals with enough PP minutes with McDavid.  Just think, Chiasson accomplished the same feat last season. 

 

Wonder why he wasn;t able to score on the PP here?

How was it that the puck was in a prime shooting spot for him and he would hit the outside of the post?

 

No doubt he should be able to plant his stick on the ice at the side of the net and have McD shoot it off him.

I actually think Chaisson has more to his game than Neal.

At least more than I saw from Neal last year.

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24 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

I think Neal can hit 20-goals with enough PP minutes with McDavid.  Just think, Chiasson accomplished the same feat last season. 

 

Chiasson is a much better skater than Neal, Neal can barely stand up on his skates, I coach Novice and half the team can skate better than Neal. He can't get into the areas to score anymore.

 

Last season, his skating wasn't the most disappointing part of his game it was his hands and shot, they were gone. Even when Jagr signed here you could still see the hands, can't say the same about Neal.

 

I keep telling all my Oilers fan friends how bad Neal is but they don't want to believe it, after last night, they were like yeah I see what you were saying about the skating.

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Watch the game in Calgary and than switched to game in Victoria. Here is my 2 cents on what I saw. 

 

The team in Calgary came out faster and dominated and than fell flat. We once again had a million shots with nothing to show but a loss. I get its preseason but the ability to start on time and never finish strong has the same appeal as last year. 

Calgary Game

Bright spots. I thought Gadwin looked good till the puck in the face. Frohlick, Gio were their usual selves, 100 % effort. Rinaldo looked  better than Smith Pelly. Lucic is what he is, he looks a hell of a lot better than Neal. For the role he is going to play, he will be great, just over paid. McDonald was good  prefer him to Stone.  

Luke Warm. Lindholm, JG, Mony,Backs, Hammer. I get its preseason but they were not overly impressive. Hamilton was fine but you could see he was nervous. Rittch really wasn't tested. 

Weak Spots. I get the pre season thing but Talbot was horrific. The shot form the blue line may have gotten redirected but the others were stoppable. Brodie once again the muffin man is back. Smith Pelly didn't impress me much. 

 

The lack of finish and desire to play to the final whistle would be my largest concern. 

 

Victoria Game ( only seen 1/2 second and 3rd)

 

Bright spots. Rudizika, Phillips, Dube, Anderson, Parsons, Czranuik and Zags looked good from what I seen. 

Luke Warm. Janko, Davidson, Robinson, Reider, Kylington. Oliver is one of those guys that just when you thinks its all good he Satoshi Nakamotos the bed. Starting to remind me of Brodie. 

Weak Points. Hard to be to harsh at this moment with anything other than, much like the big club, they get ahead and sit back and hang on. To me that is a learned behavior which falls on coaching.

 

If this club can play from start to finish they will be dominate once again. My concern is they get ahead sit back and collapse that was the issue last year in the playoffs. They never had that killer instinct or drive to stay on the gas. I give Talbot a couple more games in the Preseason, however if he hasn't turn it around before it starts, you may as well stick with one of the others, the results would be better or the same. Moving forward, I still stand behind, keep Fro Move Brodie   

 

 

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35 minutes ago, tmac70 said:

Watch the game in Calgary and than switched to game in Victoria. Here is my 2 cents on what I saw. 

 

The team in Calgary came out faster and dominated and than fell flat. We once again had a million shots with nothing to show but a loss. I get its preseason but the ability to start on time and never finish strong has the same appeal as last year. 

Calgary Game

Bright spots. I thought Gadwin looked good till the puck in the face. Frohlick, Gio were their usual selves, 100 % effort. Rinaldo looked  better than Smith Pelly. Lucic is what he is, he looks a hell of a lot better than Neal. For the role he is going to play, he will be great, just over paid. McDonald was good  prefer him to Stone.  

Luke Warm. Lindholm, JG, Mony,Backs, Hammer. I get its preseason but they were not overly impressive. Hamilton was fine but you could see he was nervous. Rittch really wasn't tested. 

Weak Spots. I get the pre season thing but Talbot was horrific. The shot form the blue line may have gotten redirected but the others were stoppable. Brodie once again the muffin man is back. Smith Pelly didn't impress me much. 

 

The lack of finish and desire to play to the final whistle would be my largest concern. 

 

Victoria Game ( only seen 1/2 second and 3rd)

 

Bright spots. Rudizika, Phillips, Dube, Anderson, Parsons, Czranuik and Zags looked good from what I seen. 

Luke Warm. Janko, Davidson, Robinson, Reider, Kylington. Oliver is one of those guys that just when you thinks its all good he Satoshi Nakamotos the bed. Starting to remind me of Brodie. 

Weak Points. Hard to be to harsh at this moment with anything other than, much like the big club, they get ahead and sit back and hang on. To me that is a learned behavior which falls on coaching.

 

If this club can play from start to finish they will be dominate once again. My concern is they get ahead sit back and collapse that was the issue last year in the playoffs. They never had that killer instinct or drive to stay on the gas. I give Talbot a couple more games in the Preseason, however if he hasn't turn it around before it starts, you may as well stick with one of the others, the results would be better or the same. Moving forward, I still stand behind, keep Fro Move Brodie   

 

 

First game of preseason. Split squads.

Should be self explanatory.

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7 hours ago, travel_dude said:

 

Best Oiler last year in pre-season was Tye Rattie.

How did that work out?

 

The competition in pre-season is watered down at best.

You want your best players to look like they are getting ready for the real season.

You want to see top prospects or fringe NHL players battling and try to outplay the vets, but ultimately it will come down to best fit.

Are you going to waive a player like Janko because Dube outplayed him in a couple of games?

Not good asset management.

 

Zagadulin played a good 1/2 game against 1/2 a NHL roster, if that.

I'm excited what he can do in the AHL this year to see if we can eventually call him up.

 

So, let me put it in different terms.

The Flames have 12 forwards, 7D and 2 goalies good enough to be on the opening night roster.

With the PTO's and AHL or fringe NHL bodies, we might have another 4 forwards and 2D that could be on the roster.

It's not like those are big improvements over the guys that have spots carved out.

And they have really only looked good so far in one or two meaningless games.

 

If you decide to keep a waiver exempt player and waive another player, consider that you are possibly giving up a good player for one that may only play well for part of the season.  Hard decisions for sure.  Would you waive Bennett because 12 other forwards outplayed him in pre-season?  I doubt it.  If you did, you would be fired.

Its, just all to complicated. Best, man wins IMO. I know what you're saying though.

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6 hours ago, MP5029 said:

Actually I am happy to see Bennett looks great so far with Backs and Frolik, that would be a pretty amazing 3rd line if Chuck can move to the top line RW 

 

The only question is who to play with Lindholm and that also depends on if Lindholm can play Ctr still...however, could make for an interesting 2nd line with an awesome 3rd to follow it?

 

my only issue and major disagreement with what people are saying here is in regards o Taboit... I am extremely worried about this guy, he had what maybe 10 shots on him and let in what was it 3 or 4...and it was vs a weaken line up with rookies in it like we had... that money would have already had Tachuck signed...Taboit best start showing something ASAP because he’s turning into this years version of Neil who I didn’t like last year when he was signed...I’m getting the same feeling about Taboit 

 

I'm hopeful BT will stop these overpaid FA contracts and stick to what he is good at UFA’s and Trades 

Talbot definitely did not look good yesterday, but its the first game, hopefully he will come around.  The thing about signing him is if we did not and remained in-hose, Gillies would be in his spot now.  I'm not sure that is any better.  Sometimes these things work out, sometimes they don't... but we never know till after the fact.

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7 hours ago, Cowtownguy said:

My guess is that he meant pre-season should be competitive. 

 

I agree that the sample size on Zagidulin is small and thus selective. I have not observed his play extensively, but what I have seen is encouraging. By contrast, I was not positively struck by Parsons' work.

I, just think that the best man should win the spot. No, one is going to outplay our big boys. But, the bottom part of the roster should go to the best guy wins. 

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50 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

Interested to see MacDonald-Stone.  That could be our bottom pair after we move Brodie for cap space.

 

I would rather see Kylington-AMac.

AT least we know one is an elite skater and the other can defend.

Your pairing is a guy that can defend and Stone.

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14 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

I would rather see Kylington-AMac.

AT least we know one is an elite skater and the other can defend.

Your pairing is a guy that can defend and Stone.

 

True, Stone isn't NHL level anymore.  Is Yelesin an option?

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