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2019-2020 Training Camp

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53 minutes ago, JTech780 said:

https://www.nhl.com/news/flames-set-to-open-training-camp/c-309075326
 
 Here is the Flames training camp roster. Interesting to see that they split them up by NHL and AHL rosters. Also looks like Eric Gryba was given a PTO and he is training with the AHL group.

 

Awesome.  We signed a head hunter who wants to prove something to play against our A lineup.  Nothing can go wrong here.

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2 hours ago, JTech780 said:

https://www.nhl.com/news/flames-set-to-open-training-camp/c-309075326
 
 Here is the Flames training camp roster. Interesting to see that they split them up by NHL and AHL rosters. Also looks like Eric Gryba was given a PTO and he is training with the AHL group.

 

It will be interesting to see if anyone from Team B makes a push to be on the opening day roster. The Flames clearly have the most likely hopefuls on Team A. 

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Have to wonder that if Mangiapane doesn't sign by the start of camp, if he is traded shortly after.

 

It wouldn't surprise me if Treliving decides to send a message, that if you have barely established yourself as a full time NHLer, and you decide to hold out, you won't be around long.

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7 hours ago, JTech780 said:

Have to wonder that if Mangiapane doesn't sign by the start of camp, if he is traded shortly after.

 

It wouldn't surprise me if Treliving decides to send a message, that if you have barely established yourself as a full time NHLer, and you decide to hold out, you won't be around long.

 

Maybe. My guess is no. But I wouldn't blame him if he did. I don't get the hold out. 

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10 hours ago, JTech780 said:

Have to wonder that if Mangiapane doesn't sign by the start of camp, if he is traded shortly after.

 

It wouldn't surprise me if Treliving decides to send a message, that if you have barely established yourself as a full time NHLer, and you decide to hold out, you won't be around long.

 

This would be an incredibly dumb decision if this is the route he wants to take. Giving away assets over small details like this is not how you get better. 

 

Personally i think the agents are flipping the script. They've seen Treliving rule with an iron fist with his RFAs but open his wallet for his UFAs. Different processes and that is not meant to be a negative on Treliving, but it is difficult to hold on the line on an RFA after they've seen you be pretty generous in other areas. 

 

I mean if the trade value is there fine but what are the odds you get full value? I don't like the holdout either, but then again Brendan Lemiuex just got over 900K yesterday. Hard to argue Mangiapange is worth that much less. 

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24 minutes ago, cross16 said:

 

This would be an incredibly dumb decision if this is the route he wants to take. Giving away assets over small details like this is not how you get better. 

 

Personally i think the agents are flipping the script. They've seen Treliving rule with an iron fist with his RFAs but open his wallet for his UFAs. Different processes and that is not meant to be a negative on Treliving, but it is difficult to hold on the line on an RFA after they've seen you be pretty generous in other areas. 

 

I mean if the trade value is there fine but what are the odds you get full value? I don't like the holdout either, but then again Brendan Lemiuex just got over 900K yesterday. Hard to argue Mangiapange is worth that much less. 

I think the big difference with UFAs getting the sweet $ is that theres more numbers to base a salary on. With an RFA you have max 4 years? Quite possibly the first one or two years are not truly reflective of what to come.

I hate to say it but the only way the RFA values are going to remain sensible is if ALL the unsigned RFAs sit the year. (ya I know it's not going to happen) Weve seen ho long it takes to get back up to speed when you miss camp (Gaudreau) and miss up to almost half a season (Nylander). I dont see any of this happening but I think the Flames could get away with sitting a holdout more than most other teams.

 

EDIT:  FWIW I still agree the Chucky signing just hinges on clearing out cap space as opposed to term and value.

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32 minutes ago, cross16 said:

 

This would be an incredibly dumb decision if this is the route he wants to take. Giving away assets over small details like this is not how you get better. 

 

Personally i think the agents are flipping the script. They've seen Treliving rule with an iron fist with his RFAs but open his wallet for his UFAs. Different processes and that is not meant to be a negative on Treliving, but it is difficult to hold on the line on an RFA after they've seen you be pretty generous in other areas. 

 

I mean if the trade value is there fine but what are the odds you get full value? I don't like the holdout either, but then again Brendan Lemiuex just got over 900K yesterday. Hard to argue Mangiapange is worth that much less. 

 

Agreed.

Hold out is one thing, but ultimately you need to get value from the player.

Having him miss camp over a small amount of money that you were willing to spend on others makes little sense.

Saying that, I don't think he is worth much over $900k.

If the offer is only the original QO, then BT is out of touch.

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how do you build your team to start the pre -season without Tkachuk and mangiapane.. and no more player movement in the foreseeable future until they are signed... 

 

Well mine would look like.. gaudreau/monahan/lindstrom

                                           Bennett/backlund/frolik

                                            lucic/jankowski/Czarnik

                                            ryan centering 2 of the following players.. Dube/smith pelly/ryder/rinaldo/Quine

 

                                          when tkachuk and mangiapane are signed.. they move to the second line and bennett and frolik slide down to play with Ryan

                                               

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14 hours ago, conundrumed said:

Why not keep Lou? Pretty sure that he makes hard decisions.

 

 

Guess it depends on who you believe, but I've read part of the issue from the Marner camp is Lou withheld those bonuses on his Entry level deal. Part of the reason they are digging in is they want those back. 

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On 9/11/2019 at 9:41 PM, kehatch said:

 

It will be interesting to see if anyone from Team B makes a push to be on the opening day roster. The Flames clearly have the most likely hopefuls on Team A. 

i don't see any room for anyone on team Otto on team Murzyn

 

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2 hours ago, JTech780 said:
Edit: This tweet is better laid out.

only difference I had in my line-up was I had Lucic and Dube switched.. Figured Lucic would give  jankowski a little more courage

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Add this to the subtext provided by Francis.  It would make his earlier stament about the Flames and $200k being the difference suspect.  He is still $135k of the QO, after dropping his ask by $200k.  Who to believe these days?

 

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Mangiapane has made a concession of $200K after speaking to various people he is close to within the organization. His ask is now $850K on one-way deal and slightly more on two-way. He is keen to get to camp to show his value. Flames QO is $715K and player has no rights.

 

 

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I would have no issue with Mange at 850K, he brings as much to the table as guys making significantly more than that, without even taking into account potential. Add in the P word and 850k is a no brainer. If they don't sign that quickly, the only reason would have to be waiting on Tkachuk. Hopefully the Flames sign Mange with his concessions and they can point out to Chucky  "look how much he left on the table to stay, why don't you do the same."

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Tre has spent money in worse ways... Stone kind of comes to mind. If this is true good on Mags, making a statement of confidence in his abilities. Sign him and see what Chucky does. Hey I mentioned in a different post, prefer he signs but if not in a certain time frame, his Hash Rate can sit for the year. 

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I really like Mangiapane and have high hopes, but without a full season he should just be taking his qualifying offer and showing up. 

I get the flames 100% on this one. I get players always want to extract whatever they can and I support that but I don’t see Mangiapane winning this one 

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5 hours ago, cross16 said:

 

Guess it depends on who you believe, but I've read part of the issue from the Marner camp is Lou withheld those bonuses on his Entry level deal. Part of the reason they are digging in is they want those back. 

Same as I was hearing on NHL Radio. Dubas though, strikes me as the politically correct, "can't we all be friends" type. Whereas I think Lou's more, wave your hand and they scatter like crows. I believe he would hardline Marner and provide an ultimatum, not be all Trudeau about it. $11mil per over 7 years, I can only imagine what Lou would have done. Pretty sure Marner would be gone. "Go sign an offer sheet, we'll take the picks".

My thinking is, if you aren't ready to play hardball and make hard decisions, you shouldn't be the boss.

As for Marner. Dude, you have one of the best centers in the league. Get over yourself. You're in one of the best positions to succeed. imho

ARI should offer sheet him. TO should let him go. Where are your 90 point seasons now hotshot?

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3 minutes ago, conundrumed said:

Same as I was hearing on NHL Radio. Dubas though, strikes me as the politically correct, "can't we all be friends" type. Whereas I think Lou's more, wave your hand and they scatter like crows. I believe he would hardline Marner and provide an ultimatum, not be all Trudeau about it. $11mil per over 7 years, I can only imagine what Lou would have done. Pretty sure Marner would be gone. "Go sign an offer sheet, we'll take the picks".

My thinking is, if you aren't ready to play hardball and make hard decisions, you shouldn't be the boss.

As for Marner. Dude, you have one of the best centers in the league. Get over yourself. You're in one of the best positions to succeed. imho

ARI should offer sheet him. TO should let him go. Where are your 90 point seasons now hotshot?

 

20 hours ago, conundrumed said:

Why not keep Lou? Pretty sure that he makes hard decisions.

 

 

6 hours ago, cross16 said:

 

Guess it depends on who you believe, but I've read part of the issue from the Marner camp is Lou withheld those bonuses on his Entry level deal. Part of the reason they are digging in is they want those back. 

 

 

I think the Matthews and Nylander deals would also be a bit more team friendly. Dubas is beginning to look like a tool in my eyes. He’s flashing Leaf money, good on the players, but he’s ruining the structure of contracts as well as boosting the average salaries when I feel they just aren’t quite ready for the inflations yet. 

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2 hours ago, cross16 said:

I really like Mangiapane and have high hopes, but without a full season he should just be taking his qualifying offer and showing up. 

I get the flames 100% on this one. I get players always want to extract whatever they can and I support that but I don’t see Mangiapane winning this one 

 

I think this is bridge deal material. Take a one year, bet on yourself at the QO. Go out and earn the ask and possibly even more. Sure he does some things better but he doesn’t have enough games to warrant the raise. 

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No surprise who the fittest Flames is... That's like 3 -4 years in a row probably. 

 

Cool to see Dube as number 1 rookie though

 

 

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17 minutes ago, robrob74 said:

 

 

 

 

I think the Matthews and Nylander deals would also be a bit more team friendly. Dubas is beginning to look like a tool in my eyes. He’s flashing Leaf money, good on the players, but he’s ruining the structure of contracts as well as boosting the average salaries when I feel they just aren’t quite ready for the inflations yet. 

 

What is Dubas job though? Keep salaries in check or win hockey games?

 

Because it sure looks like Dubas is about to do what many thought he couldn't do, and that's retain his core. Did he spend money to do it, he sure did but as GM of one of the biggest and richest hockey markets why wouldn't he do that? to me, he is a tool if he doesn't use that to his advantage. 

 

 

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6 minutes ago, cross16 said:

 

What is Dubas job though? Keep salaries in check or win hockey games?

 

Because it sure looks like Dubas is about to do what many thought he couldn't do, and that's retain his core. Did he spend money to do it, he sure did but as GM of one of the biggest and richest hockey markets why wouldn't he do that? to me, he is a tool if he doesn't use that to his advantage. 

 

 

 

I dunno! 

My bet is it keeps them mediocre long term. We will see if they can sign players to support them.

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42 minutes ago, cross16 said:

No surprise who the fittest Flames is... That's like 3 -4 years in a row probably. 

 

Cool to see Dube as number 1 rookie though

 

 

If I remember correctly Frolik ended Gio's reign of terror over the 2 previous years.

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