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2019-2020 Training Camp

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And let me be the first to say, trading him will be a mistake. What a big, dumb mess. The smartest player on our entire roster. Peters needs to wake up and see why Frolik holds a lot of value to us. He's always huge in fitness testing and has years left in the NHL for sure.

Why HE was the guy that needed to be humiliated last year is ridiculous.

Most responsible forward we have. By a lot.

If he gets traded for cap space, there are going to be a lot of people in favour of the move regretting it.

My opinion.

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1 hour ago, conundrumed said:

And let me be the first to say, trading him will be a mistake. What a big, dumb mess. The smartest player on our entire roster. Peters needs to wake up and see why Frolik holds a lot of value to us. He's always huge in fitness testing and has years left in the NHL for sure.

Why HE was the guy that needed to be humiliated last year is ridiculous.

Most responsible forward we have. By a lot.

If he gets traded for cap space, there are going to be a lot of people in favour of the move regretting it.

My opinion.

Can't believe we agree on something but you nailed it on the head about Frolik.

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2 hours ago, conundrumed said:

And let me be the first to say, trading him will be a mistake. What a big, dumb mess. The smartest player on our entire roster. Peters needs to wake up and see why Frolik holds a lot of value to us. He's always huge in fitness testing and has years left in the NHL for sure.

Why HE was the guy that needed to be humiliated last year is ridiculous.

Most responsible forward we have. By a lot.

If he gets traded for cap space, there are going to be a lot of people in favour of the move regretting it.

My opinion.

 

The most logical thing would be to trade Brodie for a cheaper contract for RW or C.

He's the one guy whose absense had little negative impact.

Ras may not be 100% ready for the top spot yet playing 22 minutes, but he's pretty close.

On the other end of the spectrum, Frolik has never been effectively replaced.

Neal, Czarnik, Bennett never grabbed the spot and kept it.

Perhaps Lindy could take the spot, but that leaves a big hole up on the top line.

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2 hours ago, conundrumed said:

And let me be the first to say, trading him will be a mistake. What a big, dumb mess. The smartest player on our entire roster. Peters needs to wake up and see why Frolik holds a lot of value to us. He's always huge in fitness testing and has years left in the NHL for sure.

Why HE was the guy that needed to be humiliated last year is ridiculous.

Most responsible forward we have. By a lot.

If he gets traded for cap space, there are going to be a lot of people in favour of the move regretting it.

My opinion.

 

Nah, Frolik slowed down.  He's a $3-mil production player now.

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13 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

The most logical thing would be to trade Brodie for a cheaper contract for RW or C.

He's the one guy whose absense had little negative impact.

Ras may not be 100% ready for the top spot yet playing 22 minutes, but he's pretty close.

On the other end of the spectrum, Frolik has never been effectively replaced.

Neal, Czarnik, Bennett never grabbed the spot and kept it.

Perhaps Lindy could take the spot, but that leaves a big hole up on the top line.

 

I don’t think I agree with this. Flames are a Brodie trade away from a tire fire of a 3rd pairing. I agree,somewhat, that Frolik is under appreciated but I also think that in that role (ie 3m line or top6) the flames have more options to fill that gap then they do Brodie on D. In today’s game you can’t afford to have a weak 3rd pair. 

Bennett is carving out a Frolik like career, Mangiapane flashes upside and you still have the ability to shift guys line tkachuk and Lindholm on different lines. I do like Frolik and wish he could stay but I don’t think it’s an insurmountable loss. 

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28 minutes ago, cross16 said:

 

I don’t think I agree with this. Flames are a Brodie trade away from a tire fire of a 3rd pairing. I agree,somewhat, that Frolik is under appreciated but I also think that in that role (ie 3m line or top6) the flames have more options to fill that gap then they do Brodie on D. In today’s game you can’t afford to have a weak 3rd pair. 

Bennett is carving out a Frolik like career, Mangiapane flashes upside and you still have the ability to shift guys line tkachuk and Lindholm on different lines. I do like Frolik and wish he could stay but I don’t think it’s an insurmountable loss. 

 

When Kylington?

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1 hour ago, The_People1 said:

 

When Kylington?

 

When is he ready?

 

i think Kylington can play now but a Kylington-Stone/Macdonald/Davison is a nightmare 3rd pairing

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2 hours ago, cross16 said:

 

I don’t think I agree with this. Flames are a Brodie trade away from a tire fire of a 3rd pairing. I agree,somewhat, that Frolik is under appreciated but I also think that in that role (ie 3m line or top6) the flames have more options to fill that gap then they do Brodie on D. In today’s game you can’t afford to have a weak 3rd pair. 

Bennett is carving out a Frolik like career, Mangiapane flashes upside and you still have the ability to shift guys line tkachuk and Lindholm on different lines. I do like Frolik and wish he could stay but I don’t think it’s an insurmountable loss. 

 

The point is that both Frolik and Brodie's contracts are done after this season.

Doubt they would re-up Brodie, because a new deal costs Gio money.

Frolik could be re-signed for more of a value deal.

We would miss some of Brodie's smarts this year, but then his usage on the PP is more negative than anything.

I also don't see Kylington-Ras as a great pair.

Just me I guess.

Wasting Eas on the 3rd pair or using him on the 1st and sheltering the 3rd pair more.

 

It's as much about asset management as anything else.

The return for Brodie would make us better in one respect and would bring Ras to the top pair.

The return for Frolik would be a pick or lesser prospect or similar contract with some warts. 

 

Anyway, just some thoughts.

Frolik is tougher to trade.

Brodie has value.

We can't have a complete team without Tkachuk, so where do you cut?

 

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1 hour ago, cross16 said:

 

When is he ready?

 

i think Kylington can play now but a Kylington-Stone/Macdonald/Davison is a nightmare 3rd pairing

 

Brodie with anyone other than Giordano is a nightmare though.  Brodie on the bottom pair is already a loss.

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8 hours ago, travel_dude said:

 

The point is that both Frolik and Brodie's contracts are done after this season.

Doubt they would re-up Brodie, because a new deal costs Gio money.

Frolik could be re-signed for more of a value deal.

We would miss some of Brodie's smarts this year, but then his usage on the PP is more negative than anything.

I also don't see Kylington-Ras as a great pair.

Just me I guess.

Wasting Eas on the 3rd pair or using him on the 1st and sheltering the 3rd pair more.

 

It's as much about asset management as anything else.

The return for Brodie would make us better in one respect and would bring Ras to the top pair.

The return for Frolik would be a pick or lesser prospect or similar contract with some warts. 

 

Anyway, just some thoughts.

Frolik is tougher to trade.

Brodie has value.

We can't have a complete team without Tkachuk, so where do you cut?

 

Definitely an issue.  With the Marner signing of nearly $11mm it'll be tough for Tkachuk to accept anything less than $9mm, long-term which I can't see happening.  Seems like it just cemented in a short-term 2-3 year deal as most likely.  It makes signing Stone seem like Brodie will be the one to go.  Fun times.

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8 hours ago, The_People1 said:

 

Brodie with anyone other than Giordano is a nightmare though.  Brodie on the bottom pair is already a loss.

 

It isn’t but we don’t need to keep having the same debate. 

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IMO this is a good thing, I am not in favour of seeing Lindholm at center. Maybe in short stints, but not as a regular.

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Peters said yesterday that he liked what he saw from Rieder and Smith-Pelley and that you could tell that MacDonald was a veteran.

 

I wouldn't be surprised to see MacDonald make this team ahead of Kylington.

 

I like what both Rieder and Smith-Pelley bring to the table. Rieder is a speedy forward and is good at killing penalties. Smith-Pelley brings that heavy game that we still lack in the bottom 6 even after adding Lucic. I think we should bring in Smith-Pelley regardless and if we need to trade Frolik to get under the cap Rieder would be a logical replacement.

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15 hours ago, cross16 said:

 

I don’t think I agree with this. Flames are a Brodie trade away from a tire fire of a 3rd pairing. I agree,somewhat, that Frolik is under appreciated but I also think that in that role (ie 3m line or top6) the flames have more options to fill that gap then they do Brodie on D. In today’s game you can’t afford to have a weak 3rd pair. 

Bennett is carving out a Frolik like career, Mangiapane flashes upside and you still have the ability to shift guys line tkachuk and Lindholm on different lines. I do like Frolik and wish he could stay but I don’t think it’s an insurmountable loss. 

I think it's a big step down personally. Neither of the 2 you mention as Frolik replacements live up to the standard. I think it's more we hope it's adequate, but I really doubt they would be. I think every team that has let Frolik go as the odd man out, I tend to hear fans say, "wish we could have kept him".

FF comes to mind, Chicago fans. He isn't going to put up numbers, but his mindset is D first, press IF you can.

I'd go so far as to say that he's a great player. If he were a C I'd compare him to Stephane Yelle.

I'd be pleasantly surprised if either of those 2 could think the game with his heavy conservatism at D.

Backlund's corsi won't look so great anymore. and we'll all be saying, "wish we could have kept Frolik" to continue his career trend.

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1 hour ago, conundrumed said:

I think it's a big step down personally. Neither of the 2 you mention as Frolik replacements live up to the standard. I think it's more we hope it's adequate, but I really doubt they would be. I think every team that has let Frolik go as the odd man out, I tend to hear fans say, "wish we could have kept him".

FF comes to mind, Chicago fans. He isn't going to put up numbers, but his mindset is D first, press IF you can.

I'd go so far as to say that he's a great player. If he were a C I'd compare him to Stephane Yelle.

I'd be pleasantly surprised if either of those 2 could think the game with his heavy conservatism at D.

Backlund's corsi won't look so great anymore. and we'll all be saying, "wish we could have kept Frolik" to continue his career trend.

 

 

Will Backlund suffer that much? I see only a minimal drop 

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47 minutes ago, robrob74 said:

 

 

Will Backlund suffer that much? I see only a minimal drop 

How good has that line always been?

WhyTF do you change the 2nd line?

Why? Trade Frolik?

Because the 3M line isn't a really good line?

Sorry, just doesn't make sense to me.

They've come together. Little Walt gets 1st pp, Backlund and Frolik are prolific PKers. Meaning I don't necessarily agree with Backlund on the 2nd PP unit.

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I don’t mean any of this to sound like I’m downgrading Frolik as im not. He’s a good player and one of the rare real FA success stories in the nhl. 

 

But backlund was an analytics stud before Frolik and there really is no reason to think losing Frolik is going to change that. Backlund is just an excellent hockey player. 

 

From that standpoint I have faith the flame can find an internal replacement should they move Frolik. However, where I would have some concern is finishing. I don’t think Frolik helped backs from an analytics perspective but he can finish. Guys like Bennett, Mangiapane etc are less proven in that role. 

 

Who knows if Frolik will go. But if it comes down to Frolik vs Brodie I think you need to keep Brodie 

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The one or the other thing has been going on so long that I think us fans talked ourselves into it.

Valimaki's injury upset the apple cart, but we haven't seen enough of him regardless.

If Kadri hadn't nixed the deal, which center was BT willing to part with/re-position?

 

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I am a little discouraged they haven't tried Lindholm at C yet this camp. I would like to see them aim for three strong lines. 

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1 hour ago, conundrumed said:

How good has that line always been?

WhyTF do you change the 2nd line?

Why? Trade Frolik?

Because the 3M line isn't a really good line?

Sorry, just doesn't make sense to me.

They've come together. Little Walt gets 1st pp, Backlund and Frolik are prolific PKers. Meaning I don't necessarily agree with Backlund on the 2nd PP unit.

 

I agree. I didn’t like that the line was broken up last year. 

 

But i I think this is what happens when stars start demanding the big bucks. You can’t afford players like Frolik and Brodie. This is just the start as Gaudreau is going to want more. Monahan will follow suit. Luckily that’s a few years away. Right now we’ve got off easy, but the paying bottom 6 players is going to have to stop soon, which is another reason someone like Frolik has to go. 

 

I dont want to trade him. He seemed an obvious choice due to the coach and agent. I want him. 

 

This is why I am upset with BT. His foresight was off and now the team has to pay for it. 

 

Buyouts plus Neal has killed the team this year. Even if Neal panned out we would still be in this situation. I think as a GM you can’t count on the Cap going up and using it as an excuse when it doesn’t to justify being in this situation.  

 

 

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7 minutes ago, kehatch said:

I am a little discouraged they haven't tried Lindholm at C yet this camp. I would like to see them aim for three strong lines. 

 

I agree. Although I could see the point of Ryan being a center. But that still needs guys to play beside him. 

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I don't think anyone actually wants Frolik traded, most here recognize his value. The situation we are in is that the team is going to be in need of cap space, and Frolik's cap hit is about the amount we will need. When you add in the fact that he only has one year left on his contract and most likely won't be back next season, also the fact that he was up and down and in and out of the lineup last season, it all makes him the most likely candidate to be moved out of town.

 

If we had the cap space to keep him, there wouldn't be a question, he stays here, but that doesn't seem to be the case.

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12 minutes ago, kehatch said:

I am a little discouraged they haven't tried Lindholm at C yet this camp. I would like to see them aim for three strong lines. 

 

The thing for me is that last season he didn't exactly drive play, he benefited from playing with Gaudreau and Monahan. I don't think he would be anywhere near as impactful centering a different line.

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1 hour ago, cross16 said:

 

Who knows if Frolik will go. But if it comes down to Frolik vs Brodie I think you need to keep Brodie 

 

Agreed.

 

But we should trade both.

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19 minutes ago, kehatch said:

I am a little discouraged they haven't tried Lindholm at C yet this camp. I would like to see them aim for three strong lines. 

 

Ya agreed.  At least try it.  Not saying Lindholm is a Center on opening day but at least give him some looks preseason.

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