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Thebrewcrew

2020 Calgary Flames NHL Draft

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3 minutes ago, robrob74 said:


 

I remember feeling Mangiapane was smallish but I remember his numbers And compete were promising. 

 

Mangiapane was passed over if I am not mistaken in his draft year.

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Just now, travel_dude said:

 

Mangiapane was passed over if I am not mistaken in his draft year.


 

Yup, it was his 2nd go, which I think also drives a player like him, and I hope that can drive some of these other guys that have gone through a few drafts. 
 

let’s get to developing these guys!!! 

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25 minutes ago, JTech780 said:

 

He trains with Mangiapane and his dad coached Monahan - neat connections to start.

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Another D,  4 altogether! But it sounds like they went need. I hope that they’re good picks or ones they genuinely went BPA because the consensus on here is drafting for need is a bad strategy. 

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1 hour ago, phoenix66 said:

 

Like Jarmo last night .. reached  so far out the announcers had no clue who the kid was.. but after his reach on PLD.. people were now asking " what does he know "

 

Yegor ChinaCough.  Lethal in close.  Highly contagious attitude with the ability to morph his game and adapt to new surroundings.  Novel and unstoppable.  No one even knew about him a year ago.

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Welcome to the Flames new Flames draft picks! Good luck and most of us will be following you. Do your best and that’s all we ask. You’ll improve and make it if you put the work in! 
 

Go Flames Go!

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2 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

Yegor ChinaCough.  Lethal in close.  Highly contagious attitude with the ability to morph his game and adapt to new surroundings.  Novel and unstoppable.  No one even knew about him a year ago.


 

they also said that if Jarmo likes him, he must be a player because Jarmo is very well versed in the European market.

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1 hour ago, Crzydrvr said:

 

Gaudreau was rated to be undrafted in 2011, we picked him 104th. Micheal Ferland was just a goon. Gio wasn't even stated and settled for a 3-way contract, which stopped existing in 2005.

 

Everyone likes going for the home run until the home run doesn't fit their preconceived notions. Let's remember that not all off-the-board success stories have to be small, skilled players.

 

ok, except that is not true, Gaudreau was ranked and was rated to go in the 2011 draft.

http://www.nhl.com/ice/page.htm?id=68892

 

I have no problem picking incredible talent early if it can be justified and I supported that pick.   

 

Michael Ferland is not big by NHL standards, and was the only pick for them in 2010 after going off the board the whole way with any significant NHL minutes.  Is getting 1 player kinda right in 7 rounds a success?    I would say no although I'm not the biggest Ferland fan.   And not when Brendan Gallagher was picked shortly thereafter, which was just as obvious at the time as it is now.

 

Gio is an arguement for free agent signings and/or drafting over-agers, which I fully support, but I don't know he's a case for going off the board.  He played in an obscure league which was hard to rank, that is not true of any of the Flames players drafted although it is somewhat true of Colton Parayoko.

 

I will admit that...maybe Gaudreau was picked early but when a player is just dripping with talent, ok.  I get it.  When a player is just....big....I don't.

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33 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

Mangiapane was passed over if I am not mistaken in his draft year.

 

Yes, he is a strong example of drafting over-agers.

 

Drafting over-age goalies and defenceman can theoretically work out even better given their development lag.

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1 hour ago, travel_dude said:

 

I remember, but as I said he there were holes in his game.

He was not by any stretch of the imagination a gifted defender.

He was a offensively gifted D-man.

Has he figured a lot out?

Of course.

 

You could probably compare early returns with Poirier.

Will he get to that level?

Anyone's guess.

 

yeah I am totally fine with drafting gifted D who have work to do defensively, that is teachable and worth the risk.

 

For that reason I am okay with Poirier, I agree.

 

But hoping that a player without gifts will "acquire" gifts, I will never understand.

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Love the passion on here, but we need to give it time. Measure the draft with the calendar, not a stop watch.

 

It's so hard to draft, a successful draft is 2 NHLers according to most front offices. Chances are most of your draft picks won't turn out. That's just the reality. Ottawa had something like 10 selections this year, they won't all turn out.

 

I bought the Elite Prospects draft guide, here's some quick notes on Flames picks

 

Zary 24th overall- EP had him at 25th. Heavy shot, volume shooter. Very good at handling poor passes. Weaknesses are skating and overpassing

 

Kuznetsov- 50th overall- EP had him at 109th. Protoypical stay at home D, best when you aren't noticing him. For context, Kuznetsov as a D had 11pts in the NCAA, EDM 1st rounder, Dylan Holloway had 17pts, playing on a Wisconsin team with way more talent than UConn. 

 

Poirier- 72nd overall- EP had him at 26th. Offensively, he's fantastic. Defensively he's a nightmare. This pick will take some patience. The value though is great and worth the risk.

 

Boltmann 80th overall- not listed. Kinda reminds me of the Josh Nodler pick, a definite project.

 

Chechelev- 96th overall- not listed. Great numbers, who knows with goalies too, so hard to know which ones will turn out. 

 

Francis- 143rd overall- EP had him at 76th. Productive player, more playmaker than shooter. At his best when surrounded with skill. Probably a project, but a good swing.

 

Kerins- 174th overall- not listed. 30 goals on a team that struggled is very impressive. Nice swing in the 6th.

 

Solovyov- 205th overall- not listed. An older player, but was productive in the OHL, now playing in the KHL.

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33 minutes ago, jjgallow said:

 

ok, except that is not true, Gaudreau was ranked and was rated to go in the 2011 draft.

http://www.nhl.com/ice/page.htm?id=68892

 

I have no problem picking incredible talent early if it can be justified and I supported that pick.   

 

Michael Ferland is not big by NHL standards, and was the only pick for them in 2010 after going off the board the whole way with any significant NHL minutes.  Is getting 1 player kinda right in 7 rounds a success?    I would say no although I'm not the biggest Ferland fan.   And not when Brendan Gallagher was picked shortly thereafter, which was just as obvious at the time as it is now.

 

Gio is an arguement for free agent signings and/or drafting over-agers, which I fully support, but I don't know he's a case for going off the board.  He played in an obscure league which was hard to rank, that is not true of any of the Flames players drafted although it is somewhat true of Colton Parayoko.

 

I will admit that...maybe Gaudreau was picked early but when a player is just dripping with talent, ok.  I get it.  When a player is just....big....I don't.

 

Gaudreau being 193rd on the Central North American list puts him around 250 on the combined list. So while he is on the list, CSS deemed him not good enough to even be a surefire 7th rounder. That's pretty off the board, and if I remember correctly the reviews were mixed on this very forum, with the general feel being that "let's wait and see".

 

Gio was playing in the 00s equivalent of the OJHL, which is a high level Jr. A league and gets guys drafted directly from said league (Edit: went back and checked. Future NHLers playing in Gio's original draft year include names like Rob Schremp, Ryan Callahan, Wojtek Wolski, Tom Kostopoulos, and Dan LaCosta, among others. Gio would have had every opportunity to catch eyes). From what I hear it was a better league back then (but my friends out there are the kind of old guys who think today's kids are soft 😅). That's not obscure, that's well within the wheelhouse.

 

Again, my argument isn't that the Flames are perfect, but the reality is every team is looking for the same thing and Canadian fans in particular have this tendency to lock into names and faces they like. At this point I honestly feel that bigger guys with potential are undervalued because they don't show the puck skills that most people see on YouTube. There's more to this game than flash and dash, and that's coming from a guy whose ideal team build and system is speed and skill. So for me, I don't understand writing off kids who are playing in some of the best youth leagues, doing very well, but because they don't fit this perfect box of expectations we're going to trash them and say they have no potential before ever seeing a shift in the pros.

 

We literally just watched Jamie Oleksiak play a top 4 role on a finals team and we're just going to write off any big player because they don't dangle the puck through the neutral zone? Why limit ourselves in our drafting when we can just focus on "is this kid talented enough and mentally capable of becoming an NHL player?" If the answer is yes, I don't care if he's 5'7" or 6'9", you gotta shoot your shot. It's not like anyone remaining is any sort of guaranteed superstar.

 

Same edit: I was just thinking about this when looking at my 2011 notes, but we talk up Gaudreau as a great example of reaching for skill paying off big (which is true). But I had a number of other guys, all small pure skill guys with "high upside", ranked on my own lists. Names like Rocco Grimaldi, Tomas Jurco, and Kyle Rau among others. I remember being very confident that at least one of those guys who dropped to the 2nd, 7th, whatever rounds would turn out to be a steal. I remember Baertschi being very skilled in juniors and feeling pretty excited he was a Flame.

 

Yet here we are and Jamie goddang Oleksiak is the one with the best NHL career of that entire group. The reality is there no surefire recipe for NHL success. Every Gaudreau includes 9 Rocco Grimaldis, every Oleksiak brings 9 Mark McNeills. If you think he's Gaudreau take him, if you think he's Parayko or Brodin or Adam Fox, take him.

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6 minutes ago, jjgallow said:

 

yeah I am totally fine with drafting gifted D who have work to do defensively, that is teachable and worth the risk.

 

For that reason I am okay with Poirier, I agree.

 

But hoping that a player without gifts will "acquire" gifts, I will never understand.

 

I guess you have to look at where he was when drafted.

Fox - USHL

Kuznetsov(forget the kid's name already) - NCAA

 

A 17 year old frosh playing against men.

If you only are concerned with scoring right now, then you go Poirier in the 2nd round.

If he's done some things they like, then you weight the lack of offense with the other things.

Let's say for sake of argument that Kuz has 2/3 things you want.

Fox had 2/3 of the things but one of them was scoring.

One pick is good the other is trash?

 

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41 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

Yegor ChinaCough.  Lethal in close.  Highly contagious attitude with the ability to morph his game and adapt to new surroundings.  Novel and unstoppable.  No one even knew about him a year ago.

 

His older brother Sars ChinaCough was also a dangerous player...   But Yegor is already more deadly...   and still has a long career ahead of him...

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Chechelev looks to have phenomenal compete level and ridiculous flexibility. Looks to give up some rebounds, not surprising though. Playing goal as a pro is tough and with experience the game will slow down and he will make first saves more cleanly. 

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