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JTech780

Calgary Flames 20/21 Roster and Lines

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I worry that Tanev is another Hamonic in play style, not because that’s bad but because Hanifin did not mesh well with Hamonic. If we want the most from Hanifin (even just to up his trade value), we should play him with Anderson.

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Thing to remember with Hamonic is no one played their best with him if you want to go based on numbers. He dragged basically everyone down mostly because I think Hamonic’s mobility has decreased. Injuries caught up to him as a Flame and he lost that ability to defend. He also doesn’t exit the zone well. 
Tanev has some downsides but he’s an upgrade in his mobility and his ability to pass the puck out of the zone. Maybe it doesn’t work but there’s enough differences in their games to believe it’s going to be a different fit. 

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18 minutes ago, cross16 said:

Thing to remember with Hamonic is no one played their best with him if you want to go based on numbers. He dragged basically everyone down mostly because I think Hamonic’s mobility has decreased. Injuries caught up to him as a Flame and he lost that ability to defend. He also doesn’t exit the zone well. 
Tanev has some downsides but he’s an upgrade in his mobility and his ability to pass the puck out of the zone. Maybe it doesn’t work but there’s enough differences in their games to believe it’s going to be a different fit. 

 

18 minutes ago, cross16 said:

Thing to remember with Hamonic is no one played their best with him if you want to go based on numbers. He dragged basically everyone down mostly because I think Hamonic’s mobility has decreased. Injuries caught up to him as a Flame and he lost that ability to defend. He also doesn’t exit the zone well. 
Tanev has some downsides but he’s an upgrade in his mobility and his ability to pass the puck out of the zone. Maybe it doesn’t work but there’s enough differences in their games to believe it’s going to be a different fit. 

not like we have a lot of choices...

 

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On 10/12/2020 at 1:06 PM, FlameFan4Life said:

I like your idea of shaking things up but there is no way they put Bennett on the top line while playing Tkachuk on his off wing.

We need to think about a few things. Sure JH has said he wants to be in Calgary long term lately, but he and any player would say that anytime they are under contract. There is even more of a chance he goes closer to home with the addition of covid now being a factor. We are seeing alot more players signing there new deals closer to home.

We should be focusing on how to keep Tkachuk happy. He can easily be our next captain. We should be giving him first line minutes with line mates that will help him succeed.

 

Tkachuk - Lindholm - Mange            This is close to the Backs line from last year with just a extra touch of offense

 

Johnny - Mony - Backlund                This to me is the closet you get to having Lindholm still on this line. I get Backs on the wing                                                              is odd but could work.

 

Dube - Bennett - Ryan                      This line is just energy in a bottle while giving Bennett his chance to center a line with a                                                              good amount of talent.

 

Lucic - Gawdin - Buddy                     This to me supports Lucic while being a hard group to play against.

 

I say an interview a few weeks back where Conroy was hinting at Lindholm on the top line centering. Also a few people in these forums have been saying that Bennett has asked to go back to center because he isn't comfortable on the wing.

 

I just wanted to say .. you dont like or want to play Chucky on his off wing but you want to take Backs away from center and play him on his off wing.(He shoots left)

 

Backs has changed from one of the best checking centers in the league to one of the top 2 way centers in the game. He has exceled with most any linemates especially Chucky for a few years now.

 

I understand the need to shuffle things up with the need to get more from some of our forwards, however splitting up our most consistant line pairings and putting them in in different roles and positions does not improve us. 

 

I like the idea of Lindholm centering the top line. I think he has more upside than Mony. 

 

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On 10/12/2020 at 1:13 PM, JTech780 said:

 

 

I just don't see Ward as being a creative thinker.

When Ward took over he shuffled the lines and lineup in a very creative way. His record was very successful for the remainder of regular season. I know he went back to some of the old line combinations near the end of the shortened season but he came up with some very creative and successful combinations in post season too. (Lucic-Bennett line for example)

I think you sell Wards understanding and creativity far too short.

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I’m a huge fan of giving Bennet more responsibility:

 

Gaudreau/Monahan/Lindholm 

 

Tachuck/Bennet/ Manji

*(though I’d rather see a legit 2nd line RW, and would also let us have an insanely great 3rd line but for now Manji is it) 

 

Lucic/Backlund/Dube
 

if my some magic BT were to land a legit 2nd RW:

 

manj/Backlund/Dube 

 

although a smallish line its got a lot of energy and puck possession capacity I could see it being crazy dangerous, the reason I’d rather backlund here is he’s so sound, he could offset a few of the mistakes by Manji and Dube, Bennet would of course bring huge energy but I thing having a veteran presence would really help these two take another step. added to that Bennet and Tachuck with another proper RW would be like having a second top line...I just get the feel if they could

do this they could roll out 3 solid scoring lines and teams would be hard pressed to contain all three lines..1 sure, 2 yes there are some solid defensive teams, but 3 lines, no way!

 

added to that Lucic and Ryan on the 4th could be dangerous if teams underestimate them... 

 

 

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7 hours ago, cross16 said:


I think you go

Gio-Anderson

Hanifin-Tanev

Valimaki-Kylington

 

As or today I think that’s the best balance. Both of the top 4 pairings can handle tough competition and d zone stars so I’d like to see Ward use that balance and not use one heavily in either direction. I think having Valimaki on your 3rd pair means you won’t have to heavily shelter that pairing. 
 

but I’m also wondering if this d core is set. 

 

Regarding your last statement, I'm thinking BT is making a lot of calls about Hanifin.

Valimaki with Tanev might be about the best vet/rookie combo we could have.

Not that the pairs you suggested is bad, just that I think a change is coming.

 

What would be left if we didn't pick up another D after trading Haifin.

Gio-Andersson

Valimaki-Tanev

??-??

 

That 3rd pair could be some combo of Kylington, Mackey, Petrovic and Yelesin.

Some interesting possibilities:

Kylington-Yelesin

Mackey-Yelesin

Mackey-Kylington

Petrovic with either Mackey or Kylington.

We would need to be carefull with them.  I'm not as worried about Yelesin from the limited action I saw.

I have some concerns about Petrovic based on his play in EDM.

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I still think they should have a conversation with Tampa regarding cernak. Offer a trade suggestion, or offer sheet him for around $3 mil * 5 years, he may not sign it, but him with Hanifin. Would allow tanev to mentor Val the same way he did with Hughes. Tampa is screwed and Cernak would be perfect for our team, not to mention payback for that stupid 2004 goal, lol. 

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5 hours ago, DirtyDeeds said:

When Ward took over he shuffled the lines and lineup in a very creative way. His record was very successful for the remainder of regular season. I know he went back to some of the old line combinations near the end of the shortened season but he came up with some very creative and successful combinations in post season too. (Lucic-Bennett line for example)

I think you sell Wards understanding and creativity far too short.

Ward has gained my respect and I think he is deserving of the head coach position, I like the promotion. Ward is a great communicator. I enjoy listening to him talk hockey, I suppose he is coaching the fans too, unlike some other coaches. 

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Gaudreau-Monahan-Lindholm

Tkachuk-Backlund-Mangiapane

Dube-Bennett- Gawdin

Lucic-Ryan-Nordstrom

 

Giordano-Andersson

Hanifin-Tanev

Valimaki-Kylington(QO at 787,500)

 

This leaves you with 398k in cap space. Dube can hit 32,500 in bonuses and Valimaki has 425k, so I would imagine the Flames really push for getting that Kylington deal for less than his QO so bonus overages don't carry over

 

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2 hours ago, Thebrewcrew said:

Gaudreau-Monahan-Lindholm

Tkachuk-Backlund-Mangiapane

Dube-Bennett- Gawdin

Lucic-Ryan-Nordstrom

 

Giordano-Andersson

Hanifin-Tanev

Valimaki-Kylington(QO at 787,500)

 

This leaves you with 398k in cap space. Dube can hit 32,500 in bonuses and Valimaki has 425k, so I would imagine the Flames really push for getting that Kylington deal for less than his QO so bonus overages don't carry over

 

 

I think there's a fair chance that either Ryan or Hanifin (or both) are traded.

BT never likes to be that close to the cap.

Last year and injury allowed him to run over.

12F, 6D and 2G is basically bare minimum to run in a season.

One injury lasting a few days and you don't have a full lineup.

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1 hour ago, travel_dude said:

 

I think there's a fair chance that either Ryan or Hanifin (or both) are traded.

BT never likes to be that close to the cap.

Last year and injury allowed him to run over.

12F, 6D and 2G is basically bare minimum to run in a season.

One injury lasting a few days and you don't have a full lineup.

In that lineup I posted, I totally forgot to include the 2 extras, Rinaldo and Petrovic as part of it. That’s just shy of 400k in space with 22 players 

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13 hours ago, Thebrewcrew said:

In that lineup I posted, I totally forgot to include the 2 extras, Rinaldo and Petrovic as part of it. That’s just shy of 400k in space with 22 players 

 

Even so, I still find it hard to believe that BT will move forward with that cap (lack of) space.

I have to think that he is moving somebody.

I man it's fine that he traded Neal for Looch, but the net result is we have that much tied to a 3rd line player.

He's not trading him any time soon.

So that begs the question, is trading Hanifin for a winger resolve the cap space issue while providing a better roster, or does it create a bigger hole?

If Hanifin is not the answer, is Ryan a casuality?

 

Ryan is a good 3/4C that can be used for other situations as well.

In a flat cap world, does it make sense?

Or should they be moving out some other player?

 

The top 6 is made up of low dollar contract (relative to the rest of the NHL).

Backlund is maybe a bit high, but he is a 2C that prevent as many goals as he scores.

Lindholm isn't procey.

Gaudreau and Monahan are value compared to recent signings.

Tkachuk is on par.

Mangiapane is cheaper than most for what he provides.

You can't trade those away unless you are bringing back a guy on a bridge deal or future star.

 

The D is relatively cheap, except for Tanev and Gio.

One is a #1 today while the other is a 3/4.

Could trade Hanifin I guess but we still need to ice a competitive linesup.

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26 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

Even so, I still find it hard to believe that BT will move forward with that cap (lack of) space.

I have to think that he is moving somebody.

I man it's fine that he traded Neal for Looch, but the net result is we have that much tied to a 3rd line player.

He's not trading him any time soon.

So that begs the question, is trading Hanifin for a winger resolve the cap space issue while providing a better roster, or does it create a bigger hole?

If Hanifin is not the answer, is Ryan a casuality?

 

Ryan is a good 3/4C that can be used for other situations as well.

In a flat cap world, does it make sense?

Or should they be moving out some other player?

 

The top 6 is made up of low dollar contract (relative to the rest of the NHL).

Backlund is maybe a bit high, but he is a 2C that prevent as many goals as he scores.

Lindholm isn't procey.

Gaudreau and Monahan are value compared to recent signings.

Tkachuk is on par.

Mangiapane is cheaper than most for what he provides.

You can't trade those away unless you are bringing back a guy on a bridge deal or future star.

 

The D is relatively cheap, except for Tanev and Gio.

One is a #1 today while the other is a 3/4.

Could trade Hanifin I guess but we still need to ice a competitive linesup.

 

What if we trade Hanifin, for a cheaper winger, and then sign Kulikov or Hutton, or maybe even Chara on a cheap 1 or two year deal. Doing something like that might improve our depth overall and bring our cap down. Kulikov or Hutton can fill in in the top 4 till Valimaki is ready to take over full time.

 

Something like Hanifin to Boston for Anders Bjork and a prospect. Sign Kulikov to a 1 year $1.5m deal.

 

Gaudreau-Monahan-Lindholm

Tkachuk-Backlund-Mangiapane

Bjork-Bennett-Dube

Lucic-Ryan-Nordstrom

Rinaldo

 

Giordano-Andersson

Kulikov-Tanev

Valimaki-Kylington

Petrovic

 

Markstrom

Rittich

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28 minutes ago, JTech780 said:

 

What if we trade Hanifin, for a cheaper winger, and then sign Kulikov or Hutton, or maybe even Chara on a cheap 1 or two year deal. Doing something like that might improve our depth overall and bring our cap down. Kulikov or Hutton can fill in in the top 4 till Valimaki is ready to take over full time.

 

Something like Hanifin to Boston for Anders Bjork and a prospect. Sign Kulikov to a 1 year $1.5m deal.

 

Gaudreau-Monahan-Lindholm

Tkachuk-Backlund-Mangiapane

Bjork-Bennett-Dube

Lucic-Ryan-Nordstrom

Rinaldo

 

Giordano-Andersson

Kulikov-Tanev

Valimaki-Kylington

Petrovic

 

Markstrom

Rittich

getting closer but i think this year you'll see more of a team game overall with Tkachul/backlund/lindholm as a line playing top line from the other team and Johnny. Mony /Ryan playing sheltered second line offence and mangiapane/bennett.Dube being the third line game breaker line.. all other 87 players compete for time on the 4th line..  Lucic seeing spot duty depending on the team we play

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6 hours ago, JTech780 said:

 

What if we trade Hanifin, for a cheaper winger, and then sign Kulikov or Hutton, or maybe even Chara on a cheap 1 or two year deal. Doing something like that might improve our depth overall and bring our cap down. Kulikov or Hutton can fill in in the top 4 till Valimaki is ready to take over full time.

 

Something like Hanifin to Boston for Anders Bjork and a prospect. Sign Kulikov to a 1 year $1.5m deal.

 

Gaudreau-Monahan-Lindholm

Tkachuk-Backlund-Mangiapane

Bjork-Bennett-Dube

Lucic-Ryan-Nordstrom

Rinaldo

 

Giordano-Andersson

Kulikov-Tanev

Valimaki-Kylington

Petrovic

 

Markstrom

Rittich

 

I didn't have anyone in mind, but what I would be looking for is a top 6 capable RW.

Ideally you have an option of where to play Mangiapane.

Bennett gets Dube on LW and Mangiapane or new RW.

4th line is Lucic-Gawdin-Nordstom.

Or if Ryan is still here, Nordstrom is an extra and either Gawdin or Ryan is the RW.

 

I guess I just have a hope that we opt to play kids with a decent ceiling over ones that have limited results.

 

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So it looks like Gaudreau isn't going anywhere this season, so now we need to figure out which line mates give him the best chance at success.

 

I think it is time to separate him and Monahan, they have become too reliant on each other and their games are becoming too predictable as a result. I think it's best for both if they learn to play away from each other.

 

In tournaments Gaudreau has looked really dynamic playing alongside a center who can play with speed through the neutral zone.

 

Backlund is probably the most obvious choice to try with Gaudreau. Backlund can attack the neutral zone with speed, he is great in his own zone, and he is one of the best at getting the play going in the right direction.

 

Putting Lindholm in the middle has been thrown around, and I am kind of indifferent to that idea. I think he would be fine, but the times when he was used at center he didn't look that great IMO. So while I wouldn't be against it, it wouldn't be my first choice.

 

I think Ryan has the smarts and skills to play with Gaudreau, and is good defensively. The issue is that he is also on the small side and he isn't really a player that will drive the center lane. 

 

My first choice to at least try is still Bennett. I get the apprehension as he hasn't exactly lit up the score sheet in the regular season as of late. There are also concerns about his vision and using his teammates. My counter to that is that Gaudreau is still the guy who will drive offense, but he needs players who can create space, I think Bennett can do that, as long as he keeps driving the center lane hard and going to the net hard. Bennett is also better equipped at retrieving pucks in the corners. I just think Bennett would help open up space for Gaudreau and that's what Gaudreau needs to succeed.

 

Now I fully acknowledge that there is a very good chance that it doesn't work at all, I just think it's time to try something different and this might be a way to get the best out of both players.

 

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I'm with Jtech on this both in terms of what center needs to play with Gaudreau and who should start there. i too would start with Bennett and let's just see what happens. I'm not going to pound the table and say that it will work but I think it's absolutely worth a shot because I see the same thing Jtech does. Gaudreau has become easier to defender because everyone knows what will happen on the zone entry. You either push him wide and let him take his low percentage shot at the corner or you force him at the blueline to button hook. having someone with some more speed down the middle of the ice I agree would open things up by forcing the D to back up, or you can start dumping it in and actually having someone go and get it. 

 

I'm open to trying Backlund too the only downside there is what you do with matchups. Either you take Backlund and put he and Gaudreeau in favorable offensive situations and then find someone else to do the heavier lifting, or you continue to use Backlund as your key matchup and Gaudreau has to be part of that. I don't really like either of those options so I am much more in favor or trying Bennett. 

 

If they insist on Gaudreau-Monahan together than I think they need to put someone like Dube or Mang on that line and move LIndholm off. Mang is the best option because I do think a Tkachuk -Backlund-Lindholm line could be killer and then it also keeps Dube with Bennett for depth. 

 

either way I will be extremely upset with Ward if he walks into camp with the same line combinations because it's very obvious change is needed. 

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I am in the same boat.  Bennett was outstanding in the playoffs and hopefully the confidence is still there to start the season.

I would like to see something like this.

Its a balanced lineup, shelters Bennett a little bit. 

Allows Backlund to continue to take the tougher matchups with Mangiapane and Gawdin.

Speed on all lines.

 

Dube Monahan Lindholm

Gaudreau Bennett Tkatchuk

Mangiapane Backlund Gawdin

Lucic Ryan Nordstrom

 

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2 hours ago, JTech780 said:

So it looks like Gaudreau isn't going anywhere this season, so now we need to figure out which line mates give him the best chance at success.

 

I think it is time to separate him and Monahan, they have become too reliant on each other and their games are becoming too predictable as a result. I think it's best for both if they learn to play away from each other.

 

In tournaments Gaudreau has looked really dynamic playing alongside a center who can play with speed through the neutral zone.

 

Backlund is probably the most obvious choice to try with Gaudreau. Backlund can attack the neutral zone with speed, he is great in his own zone, and he is one of the best at getting the play going in the right direction.

 

Putting Lindholm in the middle has been thrown around, and I am kind of indifferent to that idea. I think he would be fine, but the times when he was used at center he didn't look that great IMO. So while I wouldn't be against it, it wouldn't be my first choice.

 

I think Ryan has the smarts and skills to play with Gaudreau, and is good defensively. The issue is that he is also on the small side and he isn't really a player that will drive the center lane. 

 

My first choice to at least try is still Bennett. I get the apprehension as he hasn't exactly lit up the score sheet in the regular season as of late. There are also concerns about his vision and using his teammates. My counter to that is that Gaudreau is still the guy who will drive offense, but he needs players who can create space, I think Bennett can do that, as long as he keeps driving the center lane hard and going to the net hard. Bennett is also better equipped at retrieving pucks in the corners. I just think Bennett would help open up space for Gaudreau and that's what Gaudreau needs to succeed.

 

Now I fully acknowledge that there is a very good chance that it doesn't work at all, I just think it's time to try something different and this might be a way to get the best out of both players.

 

Who said JHG was going anywhere?

I disagree with splitting up the two, its been tried on numerous occasions with no success.

Your best set-up man belongs with your best snipper.

JHG finds SM stick over and over just prior to the red light going on.

They need a complimentary piece on the RT side.

Lindholm has been doing a fine job there but maybe there is a better option.  

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8 minutes ago, CheersMan said:

Who said JHG was going anywhere?

I disagree with splitting up the two, its been tried on numerous occasions with no success.

Your best set-up man belongs with your best snipper.

JHG finds SM stick over and over just prior to the red light going on.

They need a complimentary piece on the RT side.

Lindholm has been doing a fine job there but maybe there is a better option.  

 

Gaudreau being traded has been speculated, by numerous media outlets and fans alike. 

 

I disagree, those two may work on the PP where they have more time and space but at 5v5 they haven't been good together for a long time. Separating them has been tried but not for any length of time. Teams have figured out their tendencies and are defending them accordingly. I just don't see either players adjusting their play style while playing together.

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22 minutes ago, sak22 said:

Eklund and Francis.

LOL!

 

14 minutes ago, JTech780 said:

 

Gaudreau being traded has been speculated, by numerous media outlets and fans alike. 

 

I disagree, those two may work on the PP where they have more time and space but at 5v5 they haven't been good together for a long time. Separating them has been tried but not for any length of time. Teams have figured out their tendencies and are defending them accordingly. I just don't see either players adjusting their play style while playing together.

Your PP works with forward pairs. Your can't have them playing on separate lines then playing together on the PP. Now all your lines are in a blender.

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11 minutes ago, CheersMan said:

LOL!

 

Your PP works with forward pairs. Your can't have them playing on separate lines then playing together on the PP. Now all your lines are in a blender.

 

Lots of teams have players from separate lines playing together on the PP. Is Tkachuk any less effective on the PP because he doesn't play on a line with Gaudreau, Monahan or Lindholm.

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4 hours ago, JTech780 said:

So it looks like Gaudreau isn't going anywhere this season, so now we need to figure out which line mates give him the best chance at success.

 

I think it is time to separate him and Monahan, they have become too reliant on each other and their games are becoming too predictable as a result. I think it's best for both if they learn to play away from each other.

 

In tournaments Gaudreau has looked really dynamic playing alongside a center who can play with speed through the neutral zone.

 

Backlund is probably the most obvious choice to try with Gaudreau. Backlund can attack the neutral zone with speed, he is great in his own zone, and he is one of the best at getting the play going in the right direction.

 

Putting Lindholm in the middle has been thrown around, and I am kind of indifferent to that idea. I think he would be fine, but the times when he was used at center he didn't look that great IMO. So while I wouldn't be against it, it wouldn't be my first choice.

 

I think Ryan has the smarts and skills to play with Gaudreau, and is good defensively. The issue is that he is also on the small side and he isn't really a player that will drive the center lane. 

 

My first choice to at least try is still Bennett. I get the apprehension as he hasn't exactly lit up the score sheet in the regular season as of late. There are also concerns about his vision and using his teammates. My counter to that is that Gaudreau is still the guy who will drive offense, but he needs players who can create space, I think Bennett can do that, as long as he keeps driving the center lane hard and going to the net hard. Bennett is also better equipped at retrieving pucks in the corners. I just think Bennett would help open up space for Gaudreau and that's what Gaudreau needs to succeed.

 

Now I fully acknowledge that there is a very good chance that it doesn't work at all, I just think it's time to try something different and this might be a way to get the best out of both players.

 

 

Moving Gaudreau to play with Bennett is fine, but what does that mean about Monahan?

The logical progression is to move him to the OHL line of Tkachuk and Mangiapane.

That also means Backlund moves to a 3rd line with Dube and someone else (Lucic?).

Not saying that is wrong but it disrupts 3 lines.

 

I would counter with swapping Backlund with Monahan.  Don't know if that changes the dynamics as much but is an alternative.

 

I do think that Bennett would benefit from a line with Dube on one side and a top 6 RW.

Maybe that means you play Ryan there.  Gives them a RHS at least.

 

Here's what I am saying:

Tkachuk-Monahan-Mangiapane

Gaudreau-Backlund-Lindholm   ===> These are the lines, not suggesting one is top line or 2nd line.

Dube-Bennett-Ryan

Lucic-Gawdin-Nordstrom

 

You could tinker with it a bit, depending on whether Mangiapane or Lindholm fits best.

I'm open to either.  I think we have to assume that Lucic is going to be a 4th line player.

Bennett can't play 82 games the same way as the playoffs.  

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