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Darryl Sutter new head coach

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9 hours ago, tmac70 said:

See ans I disagree with you on this. Sutter is right , Val and Dube are good players and many of have indicated entilement went on here for far to long. The problem with this is everyone wznts the truth but no one can handle the truth. Valimaki has been Satoshi Nakamoto all year, Dube is hit and miss. Sutter call JG out and poof he answered the bell. This is a coach that demands more frankly i think he is spot on with the assesment. Which goes right up the top of the organization, its been run like a country club for to long

 

What funny about this is this is the EXACT same conversation we had when Sutter was the GM. Country club, favoritism towards players like Iginla, Phaneuf etc. Phaneuf in particular was untouchable in Sutter's mind. So if you are complaining about a country club atmosphere well that starts with Sutter. 

 

See and I had no problem with how he handled JG because he challenged him but he also gave him an opportunity to prove him wrong. What I hate about how he is handling Dube and Valimaki is he is challenging them and then giving them no opportunity to prove him wrong. This is the Sutter MO he treats rookies/young players like crap but vets gets a long leash. It can work in certain cases but again it's also why the Flames were terrible at development the entire time he was the GM and why his track record of developing rookies is not strong. 

 

Maybe this works but it's a pretty dangerous game the Flames are playing IMO. No one is suggesting just hand the kids the keys, but there are better ways to develop than what Sutter is doing. 

 

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I liked Toffoli's article in the Player's Tribune. He has a segment there about Sutter. Talks about how he handles different situations. Seems like when you're winning, but the details are slipping, he's all over you like a dog on a bone, chewing you out. When you're losing, he focuses on the positives that are going to get you out of the slump. Though, of course, you have to have the right player mindset to respond properly to that. Everyone is different and responds differently to certain approaches. Sutter expects players not to cheat the game, and insodoing, the team's success. Players that have less of a team mindset may not respond well to Sutter's approach, and I'm ok with shipping those players out because at the end of the day, if the whole team isn't pulling the same way, you're not going to reach a championship. 

 

That said, when you look at a player like Bennett and the success he's having playing under a coach that doesn't bench him or sit him out for each mistake he makes (not that Sutter did, but this relates to Valimaki and Dube), the player appears to thrive. In a terrible and lost season, I would've liked to see Sutter afford the younger players more opportunity to make mistakes and get back out there to correct them. That's growth.  

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1 hour ago, cross16 said:

See and I had no problem with how he handled JG because he challenged him but he also gave him an opportunity to prove him wrong. What I hate about how he is handling Dube and Valimaki is he is challenging them and then giving them no opportunity to prove him wrong. This is the Sutter MO he treats rookies/young players like crap but vets gets a long leash. It can work in certain cases but again it's also why the Flames were terrible at development the entire time he was the GM and why his track record of developing rookies is not strong. 

 

1 hour ago, lou44291 said:

I liked Toffoli's article in the Player's Tribune. He has a segment there about Sutter. Talks about how he handles different situations. Seems like when you're winning, but the details are slipping, he's all over you like a dog on a bone, chewing you out. When you're losing, he focuses on the positives that are going to get you out of the slump. Though, of course, you have to have the right player mindset to respond properly to that. Everyone is different and responds differently to certain approaches. Sutter expects players not to cheat the game, and insodoing, the team's success. Players that have less of a team mindset may not respond well to Sutter's approach, and I'm ok with shipping those players out because at the end of the day, if the whole team isn't pulling the same way, you're not going to reach a championship. 

 

 

There's nothing wrong with holding players to a standard.  But I think you have to be careful airing out your laundry in the media.  Sutter was asked about Gaudreau's milestone game and he talked about it needing to be better than the previous one.  Innocent comment that splashed all over the wire.  No issue with what he said, but why say that to the media.  

 

Regarding Toffoli's comments, I don't think any player would have a problem with that style.  But I don't think we saw a lot of that.  We saw a lot of negatives about certain players after a loss.  At least the public side of it was that way.  If he was talking with Valimaki or Dube after a game and focused on positives after a loss, I don't think they would be that thin skinned to be annoyed.  If the approach is you made this dumb play and need to stop doing it, but you will sit as a result, then that will never work.  You take away any form of creativity and make them fit in a box.  At the same time, you are ignoring the same mistakes from your "core" players that can do no wrong.    

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To clarify I actually like Darryl Sutter quite a bit and think he is a very good coach as well as a master motivator. However, I don't think any coach/player/executive is above criticism no matter what their track record is. I don't like the way Sutter handles rookies and I said that when he was the GM, would have said it weeks ago and say it again now. His overall approach is good, for the most part, but that's an area I don't think he has it right in and it's the primary reason that although I respect him as a coach, I think he was the wrong hire. 

 

But Sutter is just a part of what is a larger problem and that is that this organization is not well set up to function at a high level. So while it makes me mad to see 2 really good young players treated like this, I am significantly more frustrated by the overall management of this organization who hired Sutter in the first place when IMO it made no sense to hire him because they should be looking to rebuild and not acting like they are close. 

 

I think Sutter is going to get this team back into the playoffs next year and I could even see them having home ice advantage. I think this club is heading to be the next Minnesota Wild a pretty middle of the road organization that claws to get in only to likely lose in the first round. I'm no longer interested in that. 

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Reading between the lines in Sutter’s end of season presser - who am I kidding, Sutter is as direct as they come - he basically winced at Hanifin and Andersson being relied on as a 2nd pairing with them being so young. He then goes on to say the third pairing is even younger, with a look on his face. Man he likes his vets. The only thing I see opposing this though is he had doughty in LA who was a young #1 D... so it can’t be that he dislikes young players, I guess he just expects the world out of them. 

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28 minutes ago, lou44291 said:

Reading between the lines in Sutter’s end of season presser - who am I kidding, Sutter is as direct as they come - he basically winced at Hanifin and Andersson being relied on as a 2nd pairing with them being so young. He then goes on to say the third pairing is even younger, with a look on his face. Man he likes his vets. The only thing I see opposing this though is he had doughty in LA who was a young #1 D... so it can’t be that he dislikes young players, I guess he just expects the world out of them. 

 

Would not be suprised to see Stone back.

 

Age is relative as far as I am concerned.  Andersson should have learnt a lot this year and Hanafin looked much improved this year.

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12 minutes ago, lou44291 said:

Reading between the lines in Sutter’s end of season presser - who am I kidding, Sutter is as direct as they come - he basically winced at Hanifin and Andersson being relied on as a 2nd pairing with them being so young. He then goes on to say the third pairing is even younger, with a look on his face. Man he likes his vets. The only thing I see opposing this though is he had doughty in LA who was a young #1 D... so it can’t be that he dislikes young players, I guess he just expects the world out of them. 

Also had Voynov who was the same age, Toffoli and Pearson were only 21, Toffoli had to answer the criticism as well.  Phaneuf as a 20 year old rookie played a lot and was basically coddled, Regehr and Leopold were basically the same age as Hanifin and Andersson when they were the top pairing.  San Jose was very young when he got there with Friesen, Marleau, Sturm, Stuart, Hannan, and they all seemed to develop fine under Sutter.  

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On May 20, 2021 at 8:58 AM, cross16 said:

 

What funny about this is this is the EXACT same conversation we had when Sutter was the GM. Country club, favoritism towards players like Iginla, Phaneuf etc. Phaneuf in particular was untouchable in Sutter's mind. So if you are complaining about a country club atmosphere well that starts with Sutter. 

 

See and I had no problem with how he handled JG because he challenged him but he also gave him an opportunity to prove him wrong. What I hate about how he is handling Dube and Valimaki is he is challenging them and then giving them no opportunity to prove him wrong. This is the Sutter MO he treats rookies/young players like crap but vets gets a long leash. It can work in certain cases but again it's also why the Flames were terrible at development the entire time he was the GM and why his track record of developing rookies is not strong. 

 

Maybe this works but it's a pretty dangerous game the Flames are playing IMO. No one is suggesting just hand the kids the keys, but there are better ways to develop than what Sutter is doing. 

 

Yet nothing has changed. Sutter granted favours vets so has every other coach. We have to face facts the piss poor development was and still is very previlant to this day. Facts are Trevling has been given full autonomy of the club and  Trevling has us in just as bad a spot or worse than Sutter , so he isnt much better as a GM. Sutter is a good coach terrible GM we can all agree on that. Our prospect pool and development have been dog crap for years, pre sutter, during sutter and post sutter era. Looking back at this and pointing blame of the current situation on Sutter is outlandish. This organization has defenitly shown its the definition of dysfuntional

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