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Thebrewcrew

2021 Calgary Flames NHL Draft

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12 hours ago, robrob74 said:

we should do that in Van. I met @Heartbreaker and play be some hockey with them on a team for a year, went to a Flames game too. Need more of that!

 

And it was the coolest! That was the game where James Neil lost eight teeth!

Love.

  • Haha 1

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23 hours ago, sak22 said:

No, it was Datsyuks contract and #16 (Chychrun) for #20 (Cholowski) a 2nd rounder that year (Hronek) and Vitale.  Not one that should go as one of Hollands blunders even though Chychrun is the best of all picks there.

Thanks Sak, I should never rely on my old guy memory.😂

My most vivid memory from that draft was watching Chychrun fall. I'm a Sarnia guy, so seeing Van take Juolevi and Chychrun fall, I was completely beside myself.

I think it was Sergachev before Chychrun too. All I could think was jfc, how did any scout come to this conclusion?

Mind blown. 

Then I was, "YES!! Detroit!!"

Nope.🙄

One lousy jr tourney of Chychrun trying to carry all of the weight, inexplicably led to his fall.

WJC, all those tourneys, I have no idea why they carry any leverage, period.

They should be nothing tourneys  just fun to watch. But scouts are generally back-slapping, keg tapping shmoozers anyways, parading in self-importance at the rink.

*end rant*😂

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34 minutes ago, flames-fan-in-jets-land said:

Bob McKenzie released his last draft rankings, some of you may be pleased he has Wallstadt at 12.  Strangely enough he has Cossa not far behind (15).

 

Bob McKenzie's 2021 final draft rankings - TSN.ca

 

It's hard to argue with that list, but McTavish a little high in my mind.

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1 hour ago, flames-fan-in-jets-land said:

Bob McKenzie released his last draft rankings, some of you may be pleased he has Wallstadt at 12.  Strangely enough he has Cossa not far behind (15).

 

Bob McKenzie's 2021 final draft rankings - TSN.ca

 

their lists are definitely getting refined, this may be the best one yet.

 

Although I would say they have Ceulemans too low.

 

 

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1 minute ago, jjgallow said:

 

their lists are definitely getting refined, this may be the best one yet.

 

Although I would say they have Ceulemans too low.

 

 

 

And perhaps Cossa too high?

If you look at where he has Tuomaala, and consider his U18 stats, seems like a low rating for him too.

Button seems to like him, but not Bobby Mac.

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6 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

And perhaps Cossa too high?

If you look at where he has Tuomaala, and consider his U18 stats, seems like a low rating for him too.

Button seems to like him, but not Bobby Mac.

 

Perhaps too high for Cossa, but perhaps not.  It is on the high range of what I thought, yes.  but then I don't remember the last time I saw a goalie this strong come out of the WHL.

 

Tuomaala is ranked surprisingly low, yes.   But while we're at it, let's not forget Chibrikov.    Both of them are perhaps poorly scouted standouts.

 

Chibrikov reminds me of the Kucherov situation where you can actually have 17 and 18 year olds playing successfully in the KHL and they don't get any love in the draft.

 

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1 minute ago, jjgallow said:

 

Perhaps too high for Cossa, but perhaps not.  It is on the high range of what I thought, yes.  but then I don't remember the last time I saw a goalie this strong come out of the WHL.

 

Tuomaala is ranked surprisingly low, yes.   But while we're at it, let's not forget Chibrikov.    Both of them are perhaps poorly scouted standouts.

 

Chibrikov reminds me of the Kucherov situation where you can actually have 17 and 18 year olds playing successfully in the KHL and they don't get any love in the draft.

 

 

I think recent statements from Cossa suggest that he feels he is the top goalie in the draft.

Maybe BM is buying into that.

 

What I find interesting is when you compare pre-draft results between a 6'6" goalie and a 6'0" goalie in 2019, one went in the 7th round.

The other will go in the 1st or 2nd.

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27 minutes ago, zima said:

Where do most of you think Wolf would stand today in this draft?

 

Well if the league was to do a 2019 re-draft, he definitely isn't a 7th rounder, he'd be going much higher. 

 

If he was draft eligible this season, he's likely a mid round pick. Teams will always overlook goalies that lack height. 

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3 hours ago, travel_dude said:

 

I think recent statements from Cossa suggest that he feels he is the top goalie in the draft.

Maybe BM is buying into that.

 

What I find interesting is when you compare pre-draft results between a 6'6" goalie and a 6'0" goalie in 2019, one went in the 7th round.

The other will go in the 1st or 2nd.

 

A fair point, 6 rounds difference is a bit extreme.   But, to that point I think the greater anomaly is that Wolf was left to the 7th round, he should have been a mid-round pick.

 

Teams are just Sooo afraid to draft goalies anymore who aren't over 6'2.

 

You're preaching the the choir, I don't agree with the size discrepancy, but I don't think it's the scouts that are wrong.   It's the NHL that's wrong for giving taller goalies an unfair advantage imho.   It's essentially a licence to cheat and until it's changed, it is what it is.

 

Yeah a 6'6 goalie who can lead the WHL will have a huge unfair advantage.  

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2 hours ago, jjgallow said:

 

A fair point, 6 rounds difference is a bit extreme.   But, to that point I think the greater anomaly is that Wolf was left to the 7th round, he should have been a mid-round pick.

 

Teams are just Sooo afraid to draft goalies anymore who aren't over 6'2.

 

You're preaching the the choir, I don't agree with the size discrepancy, but I don't think it's the scouts that are wrong.   It's the NHL that's wrong for giving taller goalies an unfair advantage imho.   It's essentially a licence to cheat and until it's changed, it is what it is.

 

Yeah a 6'6 goalie who can lead the WHL will have a huge unfair advantage.  

 

If he had done it for a regular season, I may be closer to agreeing with you.

But, overall, he's had limited showing at the WHL level.

Beat out Wolf by 1/10 of a percent in two seasons

My point in drawing this out was to suggest that if Cossa is can't miss, then Wolf is moreso, due to longer career, consistent stats and playing more every year.

Being taller is not key to success like Bishop and Smith have had, as we have seen many a tall one fail.

Being taller and being able to do so for full seasonas is more impressive.

 

EDIT - I have made a crucial error.  I used HockeyDB, and they listed 2020-21 twice, implying Cossa had 3 season in the WHL.  Correction, he's only played 2 season, a total off 52 games.  .928 for those 52 games.  Yes, this year he had .941 in 19 games, beating Wolf by .001.  Thought it odd that he had tw seasons with exactly the same SA%.  Same is true of Wolf.  A duplicate year.  

 

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52 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

If he had done it for a regular season, I may be closer to agreeing with you.

But, overall, he's had limited showing at the WHL level.

Beat out Wolf by 1/10 of a percent in two seasons

My point in drawing this out was to suggest that if Cossa is can't miss, then Wolf is moreso, due to longer career, consistent stats and playing more every year.

Being taller is not key to success like Bishop and Smith have had, as we have seen many a tall one fail.

Being taller and being able to do so for full seasonas is more impressive.

 

EDIT - I have made a crucial error.  I used HockeyDB, and they listed 2020-21 twice, implying Cossa had 3 season in the WHL.  Correction, he's only played 2 season, a total off 52 games.  .928 for those 52 games.  Yes, this year he had .941 in 19 games, beating Wolf by .001.  Thought it odd that he had tw seasons with exactly the same SA%.  Same is true of Wolf.  A duplicate year.  

 

 

Yup hockeydb's been trippin me up for a couple weeks now, i hope they fix whatever's going on there.    It's forced me to use eliteprospects a few times which then pretty much shuts my computer down from all the garbage ads.

 

Being taller is definitely not the key to success but it might be one requirement.   Smaller goalies can make it but it gets more rare every year.

 

I would like to see the rule challenged.   both the NHL and the manufacturers brought to task to come up with equipment that isn't ridiculous and is far safer for all sizes.

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My final mock

 

1. BUF- Power

2. SEA- Beniers

3. ANA- Eklund

4. NJ- Hughes

5. CBJ- Edvinsson

6. DET- Wallstedt

7. SJ- McTavish

8. LA- Clarke

9. VAN- Guenther

10. OTT- Johnson

11. CHI- Sillinger

 

 

What would you be doing at 12 in this scenario? I'd likely go Coronato, but would consider Lucius, Lysell, Svechkov or even Cossa. Would also consider moving back if an offer exists. 

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3 hours ago, Thebrewcrew said:

My final mock

 

1. BUF- Power

2. SEA- Beniers

3. ANA- Eklund

4. NJ- Hughes

5. CBJ- Edvinsson

6. DET- Wallstedt

7. SJ- McTavish

8. LA- Clarke

9. VAN- Guenther

10. OTT- Johnson

11. CHI- Sillinger

 

 

What would you be doing at 12 in this scenario? I'd likely go Coronato, but would consider Lucius, Lysell, Svechkov or even Cossa. Would also consider moving back if an offer exists. 

 

Pretty much agree the usual suspects are all gone by 12.

 

They say this is a draft where anything can happen but in my opinion, the anything can happen part begins at pick #12.  

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Ok so we know JJ wants to take a goalie!!   Of the 2 I could get behind a Wallstedt pick but Cossa looks a big round 1 gamble to me.

 

Afterall our past successes with goalies in the first round is not very impressive.

 

Kidd 11th

Krahn 9th

Irving 26th

Muzzatti 21st

 

Just some names:-

Brodeur 20th overall

Hasek 199th overall

Roy 51st overall

Price 5th overall

Fleury 1st overall

Kiprusoff 116th overall

Joseph - undrafted

 

Recent years goalies taken in round 1

2020 - Askarov 11th

2019 - Knight 13th

2018 - None

2017 - Jake Oetteinger 26th

2016 - None

2015 - Samsonov 22nd

2014 - None

2013 - None

2012 - Vasilevskey  19th  Subban 24th

2011 - None

 

So in the last 10 years only 6 goalies have gone in round 1.

Vasileveskey arguably the best goalie in the league right now but Subban taken 5 picks later is a backup at best.

Jury is still out Askarov

Spencer Knight looks like he will be a solid goaltender and Oetteinger has played 26 games for Dallas

 

So is Cossa more Subban or Vasilevsky?

Is Wallestedt the next Fleury?

Or is there a Domink Hasek sonewhere in the later rounds?

 

There is no guarantee taking one of these top 2 goaile prospects is a recipe for success. 

Taking a goalie in round 1 is a huge gamble.   I think I would be in the camp of making a safer pick in round 1.

 

If Wallstedt falls to 12 then.....

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1 hour ago, rocketdoctor said:

Ok so we know JJ wants to take a goalie!!   Of the 2 I could get behind a Wallstedt pick but Cossa looks a big round 1 gamble to me.

 

Afterall our past successes with goalies in the first round is not very impressive.

 

Kidd 11th

Krahn 9th

Irving 26th

Muzzatti 21st

 

Just some names:-

Brodeur 20th overall

Hasek 199th overall

Roy 51st overall

Price 5th overall

Fleury 1st overall

Kiprusoff 116th overall

Joseph - undrafted

 

Recent years goalies taken in round 1

2020 - Askarov 11th

2019 - Knight 13th

2018 - None

2017 - Jake Oetteinger 26th

2016 - None

2015 - Samsonov 22nd

2014 - None

2013 - None

2012 - Vasilevskey  19th  Subban 24th

2011 - None

 

So in the last 10 years only 6 goalies have gone in round 1.

Vasileveskey arguably the best goalie in the league right now but Subban taken 5 picks later is a backup at best.

Jury is still out Askarov

Spencer Knight looks like he will be a solid goaltender and Oetteinger has played 26 games for Dallas

 

So is Cossa more Subban or Vasilevsky?

Is Wallestedt the next Fleury?

Or is there a Domink Hasek sonewhere in the later rounds?

 

There is no guarantee taking one of these top 2 goaile prospects is a recipe for success. 

Taking a goalie in round 1 is a huge gamble.   I think I would be in the camp of making a safer pick in round 1.

 

If Wallstedt falls to 12 then.....

2004 - Pekka Rinne 258th.lol

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Detroit just traded for Nedeljkovik, so I expect that means they are out on Wallstedt.

Ottawa lost Daccord, so they might be much more inclined now.

 

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4 hours ago, travel_dude said:

Detroit just traded for Nedeljkovik, so I expect that means they are out on Wallstedt.

Ottawa lost Daccord, so they might be much more inclined now.

 

Only a 2yr deal though. A goalie with 29 games experience shouldn't much effect their draft board. 

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7 minutes ago, Thebrewcrew said:

Only a 2yr deal though. A goalie with 29 games experience shouldn't much effect their draft board. 

 

True.  But a 29 game experienced vet with really good numbers in regular season and 9 playoff games should give you some pause about building your team starting with a goalie with your top pick.

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13 minutes ago, Thebrewcrew said:

Only a 2yr deal though. A goalie with 29 games experience shouldn't much effect their draft board. 


for that many games, I don’t get how a goalie gets paid as much as he did. Was it a 3M AAV? Seems high for not proving anything yet.

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3 minutes ago, robrob74 said:


for that many games, I don’t get how a goalie gets paid as much as he did. Was it a 3M AAV? Seems high for not proving anything yet.

He’s arbitration eligible. Has a save percentage of .928 in his career and was a Calder Finalist. He picked a good time to have a big season.

 

5 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

True.  But a 29 game experienced vet with really good numbers in regular season and 9 playoff games should give you some pause about building your team starting with a goalie with your top pick.

and for sure, Detroit might not take him. Yzerman will always take his guy, and maybe it’s the goalie, maybe it’s not. I think Wallstedt ends up with DET, OTT or LA though

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31 minutes ago, Thebrewcrew said:

He’s arbitration eligible. Has a save percentage of .928 in his career and was a Calder Finalist. He picked a good time to have a big season.

 

and for sure, Detroit might not take him. Yzerman will always take his guy, and maybe it’s the goalie, maybe it’s not. I think Wallstedt ends up with DET, OTT or LA though

 

I agree.  Some suggest that he's more likely to fall to us now, while I have a problem seeing that.

Stranger things happen.

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1 hour ago, travel_dude said:

 

I agree.  Some suggest that he's more likely to fall to us now, while I have a problem seeing that.

Stranger things happen.


I still think BT is going to trade the pick on the draft floor. It’s going to hurt because it’s going to be a costly pay. But he’s going to want to fill a Top4 D or Top6 C/RW spot. 


it is either a pick or Zary/Pelletier or a combo. BT is in win now mode.

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