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bosn111

Flames injuries

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Well, from the Gaudreau interview, sounds like Monahan was injured most of the season. Does this surprise anyone?

 

Information that Tanev was playing with cracked ribs for months.

 

We saw Hanifin go down with an injury and apparently Dube ended the season with a concussion and now won’t be going to the worlds.
 

How many more injuries are we going to hear about over the coming weeks?

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7 minutes ago, bosn111 said:

Well, from the Gaudreau interview, sounds like Monahan was injured most of the season. Does this surprise anyone?

 

Information that Tanev was playing with cracked ribs for months.

 

We saw Hanifin go down with an injury and apparently Dube ended the season with a concussion and now won’t be going to the worlds.
 

How many more injuries are we going to hear about over the coming weeks?

Has it been confirmed Dube isn’t going? 😔

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10 minutes ago, bosn111 said:

Well, from the Gaudreau interview, sounds like Monahan was injured most of the season. Does this surprise anyone?

 

Information that Tanev was playing with cracked ribs for months.

 

We saw Hanifin go down with an injury and apparently Dube ended the season with a concussion and now won’t be going to the worlds.
 

How many more injuries are we going to hear about over the coming weeks?

I never got to hear any of this first hand but if true it's just more of the "mediocracy now" mentality with this organization.

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To me, this makes me realize that the organization doesn’t trust their depth. Whether it’s player or team decisions, someone feels that there isn’t enough to replace injuries. I think in the long run you want guys to heal so the injuries don’t become nagging or add up to end careers.

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38 minutes ago, bosn111 said:

Well, from the Gaudreau interview, sounds like Monahan was injured most of the season. Does this surprise anyone?

 

Information that Tanev was playing with cracked ribs for months.

 

We saw Hanifin go down with an injury and apparently Dube ended the season with a concussion and now won’t be going to the worlds.
 

How many more injuries are we going to hear about over the coming weeks?

 

Not surprised.  Most teams are banged up this time of year.

 

Monahan has become injury prone and won't get to properly train this summer to get ready for the next.

 

Tanev we knew has injury issues his entire career and so not surprised there.

 

Hope Dube is okay.

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BT confirmed that Dube has to miss the WC.  He had to inform Team Canada today.

Tanev was actually playing with cracked ribs and torn pec muscle.

BT called him a true leader for playing injured for an entire month.

Monahan playing injured and two coaches ignoring it and leaving the lines as is.

 

What bothers me is whoever is making those decisions is not being fair to the team.

There was no hint that somehow we were going to be a playoff team, so we needed martyrs out there to play to the bitter end?

 

We have meaningless games and allow a player to decide that he plays or not.

Dube was a bad situation that happened; no reason to keep him out of the game, and just bad luck.

But Tanev and Monahan should have been shut down ages ago.

At the very least when we knew we were done and traded Rittich and Bennett.

 

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Once again, organization looks pretty bad in all of this. Tanev played through how many meaningless games? And players like Kylington and Valimaki sat in favor of this?

 

I understand players have a role in this and very likely push to play but I think at some point the organization needs to step in too. End of season injuries are understanding but playing through it the way they did doesn't sit well with me.

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1 hour ago, cross16 said:

Once again, organization looks pretty bad in all of this. Tanev played through how many meaningless games? And players like Kylington and Valimaki sat in favor of this?

 

I understand players have a role in this and very likely push to play but I think at some point the organization needs to step in too. End of season injuries are understanding but playing through it the way they did doesn't sit well with me.

 

What I find dubious is that the team has the final say in treatment.

I mean I would hate to be told that I have to do something, but I'm also not paid $4.5m by a team for performance.

They are trying to protect their investment, not just do what the player wants.

Eichel would love it here, we will do whatever he wants to do and ignore medical staff.

 

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13 hours ago, cross16 said:

Once again, organization looks pretty bad in all of this. Tanev played through how many meaningless games? And players like Kylington and Valimaki sat in favor of this?

 

I understand players have a role in this and very likely push to play but I think at some point the organization needs to step in too. End of season injuries are understanding but playing through it the way they did doesn't sit well with me.

For me, it indicates a team with zero depth.

Also an org that is terrified of risking a season vs having a player(s) able to go on IR. They show no belief in their players being able to step up.

I've become entirely morbid with the Flames org. They set the tone for the players, they are the one's responsible for the team's give a Satoshi Nakamoto level.

Injuries aren't an excuse for how dysfunctional this team is.

It starts at the top, you reap what you have sewn.

Very dark days ahead imho. The culture looks horrendous. That's a conviction of the org. 

Players won't want to come to Calgary. It's toxic.

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3 hours ago, conundrumed said:

For me, it indicates a team with zero depth.

Also an org that is terrified of risking a season vs having a player(s) able to go on IR. They show no belief in their players being able to step up.

I've become entirely morbid with the Flames org. They set the tone for the players, they are the one's responsible for the team's give a Satoshi Nakamoto level.

Injuries aren't an excuse for how dysfunctional this team is.

It starts at the top, you reap what you have sewn.

Very dark days ahead imho. The culture looks horrendous. That's a conviction of the org. 

Players won't want to come to Calgary. It's toxic.

 

We are building the NA version of the Swedish Elite League teams.

Who is the person to point the finger at or is it organizational that we have players playing through injuries requiring surgery?

What is being used as the measurement for keeping parts or all of this team together?

 

Let's look at some of the recent history.

  • BT speaks about lack of depth at C and we convert our best RW to C.  The coach does it at the cost of the "2nd line".  Replace him with crap players and expect some magic.
  • Coach talks about giving Monahan more of an increased role and less on a offensive-only player.  He plays about as tough as you might expect he would.  Gets a hip injury requiring surgery.  Plays through it.  No regard to best interests long term, must win.
  • Tkachuk gets fed up in a game against Toronto, but the end result is a players-only meeting and a less impactful Tkachuk.
  • Tanev is injured and plays meaningless games after we are eliminated, yet we have two young players not getting any ice or limited games.
  • Continued reliance on vets that weren't able to get the job done all season (Nesterov for example).
  • Media plays out stories about Gaudreau not wanting to be here, the in room fight with Tkachuk over his antics, etc.  
  • Leadership never questioned, don't even bring it up.
  • Lucic calls out certain players.
  • Gio talks about being exposed as a "conversation among other things we need to have"; don't even know what that's supposed to mean

 

We as fans question the work ethic, country club atmosphere, leadership, unwillingness to do what it takes to win, etc.  Sutter has at times poofed that off, saying they lose because they miss details to win.  I don't know if the culture sucks and players avoid it like the plague, but we do know that Gio and Lucic have a polarizing effect.  Not everyone wants to play with them.  Same is true of Tkachuk, not everyone would want to be on his team.  Or is Gaudreau too much of a spoiled kid that has to play with one player?

Or is the GM too cheap and every player knows it.  There are far bigger tight wads out there that have good players.

 

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like any work situation.

 

You get on with some people you dislike others.

 

You are professional, deal with it and carry on.

 

 

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6 minutes ago, rocketdoctor said:

like any work situation.

 

You get on with some people you dislike others.

 

You are professional, deal with it and carry on.

 

 

 

It comes down to UFA's getting two offers close to the same.  For some it's not just the money, so sign where you see something you like.

I don't know if there are that many players we targeted that didn't sign as UFA's.  We didn't target Pietrangelo.  Not seriously anyway.

Panarin was between us and Chicago.  Imagine a Russian not knowing anything about Canada and only hearing about Kane and Toews and Chicago (bang bang).

Fox was a lifelong fan of NY teams, specifically NYR.

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17 hours ago, cross16 said:

Once again, organization looks pretty bad in all of this. Tanev played through how many meaningless games? And players like Kylington and Valimaki sat in favor of this?

 

I understand players have a role in this and very likely push to play but I think at some point the organization needs to step in too. End of season injuries are understanding but playing through it the way they did doesn't sit well with me.

 

Agreed.  Though Tanev was still effective, we still have him signed for 3 more years.  Think long term for once, man.  Risking 3-years for a week of meaningless games.  Tanev could've suffered irreparable damage the last week of the season.

 

Monahan also wasn't scoring anymore and actually hurt the team and dragged down Gaudreau by toughing it out.  Why didn't we shut him down?  Challenge Bennett in his place.

 

Even Markstrom, he never should've played in any of the final 5-games of the season.  He's basically the star of our team now and the best player.  It showed early in the season when he was on fire.  We need him 100% the next few years.  Let him rest.

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16 hours ago, travel_dude said:

 

What I find dubious is that the team has the final say in treatment.

I mean I would hate to be told that I have to do something, but I'm also not paid $4.5m by a team for performance.

They are trying to protect their investment, not just do what the player wants.

Eichel would love it here, we will do whatever he wants to do and ignore medical staff.

 

 

Lol wut.

 

We didn't shut down Tanev and Monahan with injuries.  Eichel would love it here?

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1 minute ago, The_People1 said:

 

Lol wut.

 

We didn't shut down Tanev and Monahan with injuries.  Eichel would love it here?

 

Tanev wanted to play through his injuries, even in meaningless games.

Monahan could have as well, and we let it happen.

We decided to let them play.

Eichel wants a risky surgery, Buffalo doesn't want that, they want what's best for the player.

 

It seems like we let the players decide what to do about their health, not doing the most to protect their health.

 

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4 hours ago, conundrumed said:

For me, it indicates a team with zero depth.

Also an org that is terrified of risking a season vs having a player(s) able to go on IR. They show no belief in their players being able to step up.

I've become entirely morbid with the Flames org. They set the tone for the players, they are the one's responsible for the team's give a Satoshi Nakamoto level.

Injuries aren't an excuse for how dysfunctional this team is.

It starts at the top, you reap what you have sewn.

Very dark days ahead imho. The culture looks horrendous. That's a conviction of the org. 

Players won't want to come to Calgary. It's toxic.

 

Toxic is harsh. Flames have signed plenty of UFAs and had plenty of people want to stay in addition have attracted some pretty high profile amateur and pro free agents. I don't like how they handled this but I also highly doubt this was a situation where the players said i want to sit and Flames forced them, that would be toxic. 

 

i agree though, where is the next man up philosophy? Tanev is hurt then cool it's a great opportunity to see why Kylington or Valimaki can do. Monahan hurt, cool then shut him down and move Bennett there or Dube back to the middle. How many times do organizations find players due to injuries and requiring others to step up? If you shut down Monahan early in the season maybe the Bennett thing is salvageable. 

 

A lot of that is coaching too, not just management. 

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Looks like we have all found a rare thread we all agree on,

 

Unfortunately it is a thread about lack of attention to player health.

 

Well we agree on enough that it's a bad situation.

 

 

Look the bottom line is this is unacceptable in a developed country.

 

I don't care about excuses about player depth or coaching styles or giving players "medical freedoms" or "important games" or any of that krap.

 

You don't play your players injured.  Can't believe we're even discussing "important games" like we would even know what that is not even being in the playoffs.

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8 hours ago, jjgallow said:

 

Looks like we have all found a rare thread we all agree on,

 

Unfortunately it is a thread about lack of attention to player health.

 

Well we agree on enough that it's a bad situation.

 

 

Look the bottom line is this is unacceptable in a developed country.

 

I don't care about excuses about player depth or coaching styles or giving players "medical freedoms" or "important games" or any of that krap.

 

You don't play your players injured.  Can't believe we're even discussing "important games" like we would even know what that is not even being in the playoffs.

 

Developed country or not, players in the playoffs are injured.  

Every year after a series eliminates a team, you hear about Seguin playing with a .....

Or Stamkos was .....

It's not unique to the Flames.

Khaira playing a couple of days after concission, then getting another one.

Markstrom should not have played after the Pearson hit.

Teams are bypassing medical opinions with needs.

 

Had we been in a playoff race, there is no question that Tanev is going to offer up as being okay to go.

Was the injury one that could get progressively worse during playoffs?  No idea.

The fact that we were not makes this much more puzzling.

Monahan needing hip surgery for how long?

Yikes.

 

Players have too much pride to admit that something is bothering them.  If their play is not impacted, it makes it even harder.  Monahan was pretty obvious and there is no excuse for that.  Tanev was lights out all year, but there was no reason to continue as if we were a playoff team.

 

There was nothing to be gained by playing our so-called core for meaninless games.  We were not trying to get them records that they can look back on in the future.  To make matters worse, we wasted free development games on UFA's we already had a book on or vets that had nothing but injuries to gain.

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4 hours ago, travel_dude said:

 

Developed country or not, players in the playoffs are injured.  

Every year after a series eliminates a team, you hear about Seguin playing with a .....

Or Stamkos was .....

It's not unique to the Flames.

Khaira playing a couple of days after concission, then getting another one.

Markstrom should not have played after the Pearson hit.

Teams are bypassing medical opinions with needs.

 

Had we been in a playoff race, there is no question that Tanev is going to offer up as being okay to go.

Was the injury one that could get progressively worse during playoffs?  No idea.

The fact that we were not makes this much more puzzling.

Monahan needing hip surgery for how long?

Yikes.

 

Players have too much pride to admit that something is bothering them.  If their play is not impacted, it makes it even harder.  Monahan was pretty obvious and there is no excuse for that.  Tanev was lights out all year, but there was no reason to continue as if we were a playoff team.

 

There was nothing to be gained by playing our so-called core for meaninless games.  We were not trying to get them records that they can look back on in the future.  To make matters worse, we wasted free development games on UFA's we already had a book on or vets that had nothing but injuries to gain.

 

I do agree.   I mean if this was happening in the playoffs we'd be having a pretty good debate about it.

 

Happening in the regular season an it's like, wow.

 

BTW our debate about when a player exits their prime, the answer for the Flames is in this thread.

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On 5/21/2021 at 10:48 AM, cross16 said:

 

Toxic is harsh. Flames have signed plenty of UFAs and had plenty of people want to stay in addition have attracted some pretty high profile amateur and pro free agents. I don't like how they handled this but I also highly doubt this was a situation where the players said i want to sit and Flames forced them, that would be toxic. 

 

i agree though, where is the next man up philosophy? Tanev is hurt then cool it's a great opportunity to see why Kylington or Valimaki can do. Monahan hurt, cool then shut him down and move Bennett there or Dube back to the middle. How many times do organizations find players due to injuries and requiring others to step up? If you shut down Monahan early in the season maybe the Bennett thing is salvageable. 

 

A lot of that is coaching too, not just management. 


 

Ryan was a good signing but signed due to his relationship with Peters. I guess you still give them the positive signing vote there. Then the Tanev and Markstrom signing. Those are the only three UFA vet signings I have liked. All of the others have sucked! The Hathaway one was a good college deal. All of the rest were either ok or bad. I guess they still signed in Calgary. So that’s good. I am trying to think of other signings that made a difference.
 

I fully agree in the second paragraph. 

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On 5/21/2021 at 12:48 PM, cross16 said:

 

Toxic is harsh. Flames have signed plenty of UFAs and had plenty of people want to stay in addition have attracted some pretty high profile amateur and pro free agents. I don't like how they handled this but I also highly doubt this was a situation where the players said i want to sit and Flames forced them, that would be toxic. 

 

i agree though, where is the next man up philosophy? Tanev is hurt then cool it's a great opportunity to see why Kylington or Valimaki can do. Monahan hurt, cool then shut him down and move Bennett there or Dube back to the middle. How many times do organizations find players due to injuries and requiring others to step up? If you shut down Monahan early in the season maybe the Bennett thing is salvageable. 

 

A lot of that is coaching too, not just management. 

In all reality the team hasn't had to deal with many long term key player injuries for quite a while now.  It doesnt mean you dont prepare for it but I think nothing will be done until you have to deal with a long term injury. Then it will be panic mode and instead of the man up mantra a "filler" player will be brought in, probably at a less than ideal contract.

 

I really dislike the Debbie Downer I'm becoming in regards to this organization. I'll always be a fan, it's just hard sometimes.

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On 5/21/2021 at 6:52 AM, conundrumed said:

For me, it indicates a team with zero depth.

Also an org that is terrified of risking a season vs having a player(s) able to go on IR. They show no belief in their players being able to step up.

I've become entirely morbid with the Flames org. They set the tone for the players, they are the one's responsible for the team's give a Satoshi Nakamoto level.

Injuries aren't an excuse for how dysfunctional this team is.

It starts at the top, you reap what you have sewn.

Very dark days ahead imho. The culture looks horrendous. That's a conviction of the org. 

Players won't want to come to Calgary. It's toxic.

 

Completely agree, well said, accurately said.   On the bright side, there are some incredible, incredible drafts coming up for a purge.

 

I mean a retool.

 

On 5/21/2021 at 11:48 AM, cross16 said:

 

Toxic is harsh. Flames have signed plenty of UFAs and had plenty of people want to stay in addition have attracted some pretty high profile amateur and pro free agents. I don't like how they handled this but I also highly doubt this was a situation where the players said i want to sit and Flames forced them, that would be toxic. 

 

i agree though, where is the next man up philosophy? Tanev is hurt then cool it's a great opportunity to see why Kylington or Valimaki can do. Monahan hurt, cool then shut him down and move Bennett there or Dube back to the middle. How many times do organizations find players due to injuries and requiring others to step up? If you shut down Monahan early in the season maybe the Bennett thing is salvageable. 

 

A lot of that is coaching too, not just management. 

 

Playing multiple multiple players injured (just the ones we know of) is Literally the definition of Toxic, I couldn't begin to find a better descriptor.    Agreed that it is harsh.  We could use a little harsh right about now.    

 

Agreed with the 2nd part.

 

Coaches, hired by management.   Medical staff hired by management.   Players acquired by management.

 

On 5/23/2021 at 1:13 AM, robrob74 said:

Ryan was a good signing but signed due to his relationship with Peters. I guess you still give them the positive signing vote there. Then the Tanev and Markstrom signing. Those are the only three UFA vet signings I have liked. All of the others have sucked! The Hathaway one was a good college deal. All of the rest were either ok or bad. I guess they still signed in Calgary. So that’s good. I am trying to think of other signings that made a difference.
 

I fully agree in the second paragraph. 

 

None of the signings have any direction or logic if you look at the team past one year.   That is because none of the signings have sight past immediate need.  The result is that many of them are harmful.   Admittedly this goes well past Treliving but BT has way too much share in this.

 

I will take this to the extent that even some of our most successful signings, like Hudler, harmed us.   He was signed at the exact moment where this team absolutely need to acquire a young talented RW and give him minutes in order to complete their rebuild.   Everyone was so happy when he signed and even myself I admit it looked good at the time.   But there was Never a vision.    Never anyone looking on paper and saying "whoops we look really bad here a few years out, we need a strong young RW".   No vision.  No investment.  Just immediate gratification.

 

And that's how they've managed player health and safety too, by the looks of it.

 

11 hours ago, flames-fan-in-jets-land said:

In all reality the team hasn't had to deal with many long term key player injuries for quite a while now.  It doesnt mean you dont prepare for it but I think nothing will be done until you have to deal with a long term injury. Then it will be panic mode and instead of the man up mantra a "filler" player will be brought in, probably at a less than ideal contract.

 

I really dislike the Debbie Downer I'm becoming in regards to this organization. I'll always be a fan, it's just hard sometimes.

 

I have some experience here.   Yeah it sucks.   I have been cheering for the Flames my entire life which is long before they won a cup.   Sometimes I almost feel like the years heading into the Olympics was the last time this organization fully stuck to a plan of considering the future and the outcome was just that.    That was a team btw that rested guys at the slightest hint of injury or fatigue so this isn't all new age stuff,  organisations including this one have done it right in the 80's and earlier.

 

At some point it will come full circle and we will all be vindicated as fans.   But at some point I think you come to the conclusion that sugar-coating it isn't sustainable.    It doesn't mean anyone actually listens to the rants or that they'll have an effect.   But it is grounding at least.  lol

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