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heres your Depth..

 

 

 

the Calgary Flames announced today that they have signed three free agents to two-way contracts:

NICK DESIMONE - DEFENCEMAN

BORN: East Amherst, NY DATE: November 21, 1994

HEIGHT: 6'2" WEIGHT: 190 lbs.

SHOOTS: Right

TERM: One year, two-way

AAV: $750,000

 

KEVIN GRAVEL - DEFENCEMAN

BORN: Kingsford, MI DATE: March 6, 1992

HEIGHT: 6'4" WEIGHT: 205 lbs.

SHOOTS: Left

DRAFTED: Los Angeles - 5th round (148th overall) in the 20210 NHL Draft

TERM: One year, two-way

AAV: $750,000

 

ADAM WERNER - GOALTENDER

BORN: Mariestad, Sweden DATE: May 2, 1997

HEIGHT: 6'5" WEIGHT: 198 lbs.

CATCHES: Left

TERM: One year, two-way

AAV: $750,000

 
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1 minute ago, MP5029 said:

Well so far theses signings have Sutter written all over them say for the goalie…though Sutter did bring us Kipper and maybe 🤔 Sutter sees something in him or who knows…one point of note, let’s just say for a second, this kid is the next kipper…do they then trade Markstrom and if somto who, also I think Martha’s a NTC or NMC so that would make things trip but let’s just say what team would be looking for, can afford, Markstrom would be willing to go to and has the assets we would want?

 

any ideas? 

I'm sure Sutter had input , but aside from Lewis I doubt he gave BT a definite shopping list .. but it makes sense that a GM provides a coach  the players best suited to play his system .

 

and ya .. if by chance the kid becomes the next Kipper then Markstrom becomes a chip. thats just evolution 

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Boy, we went big on players.

Two big D for the farm.

A big goalie for the farm.

 

I wonder who they look at for 3rd pair RD.

Stone is probably waiting by his phone, but there has to be something else...

 

TBH, I think BT's next move is a trade.

Monahan or Tkachuk for an overpay by some team.

 

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26 minutes ago, phoenix66 said:

I'm sure Sutter had input , but aside from Lewis I doubt he gave BT a definite shopping list .. but it makes sense that a GM provides a coach  the players best suited to play his system .

 

and ya .. if by chance the kid becomes the next Kipper then Markstrom becomes a chip. thats just evolution 

It’s a wait and see thing…though I would suggest not till next year if at all 

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10 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

Boy, we went big on players.

Two big D for the farm.

A big goalie for the farm.

 

I wonder who they look at for 3rd pair RD.

Stone is probably waiting by his phone, but there has to be something else...

 

TBH, I think BT's next move is a trade.

Monahan or Tkachuk for an overpay by some team.

 

Well and over pay from someone else would be a nice change 

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To me this is shaping up to be another dud of an offseason. I don’t see any big trades coming, so it looks like a run back of last season’s team. At least pitlick and Coleman are better adds than  Leivo or Simon, but that contract is pretty rich.

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27 minutes ago, ABC923 said:

To me this is shaping up to be another dud of an offseason. I don’t see any big trades coming, so it looks like a run back of last season’s team. At least pitlick and Coleman are better adds than  Leivo or Simon, but that contract is pretty rich.

46 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

Boy, we went big on players.

Two big D for the farm.

A big goalie for the farm.

 

I wonder who they look at for 3rd pair RD.

Stone is probably waiting by his phone, but there has to be something else...

 

TBH, I think BT's next move is a trade.

Monahan or Tkachuk for an overpay by some team.

 

nope.. not even close to done.

SOMETHNG has to happen with Johnny, we're not taking him into the season and riding him to UFA..his value drops every game if they do . 

 they either sign him or trade him.. and even tho he now has his 5 team list in effect, thats not too much of an obstacle cuz it doesnt take a rocket scientist to guess who those 5 teams are .. and all of them would love to have him.

My guess is we sign him ... but the big move is waiting for some dominoes to fall or somebody to blink

 

 

and i'd bet the farm Stone is back cheap again .. Sutter liked him , he plays the simple game 

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So? where are we what is the consensus win loss Mahhh or do we say maybe next century. I am not happy with what we have done this yr again why can't we do something worth bragging about . This coming up season we are looking at drafting top 5 again and the rest of our pacific rivals will surpass us unless Goal tending stands on there heads and I hope we let Wolf become top player for our franchise and not leave him in the A's or does he stay in the juniors ? I don't want to move MrT lets give him another few yrs to prove himself here lets not give up on him just yet. Now if we are trading for a block buster type trade and pickup a winning group which will bring us closer to the third round in the playoffs I will be good but we all know that's not a BT type of way to go. Please take his pen away ;)   

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1 hour ago, travel_dude said:

Boy, we went big on players.

Two big D for the farm.

A big goalie for the farm.

 

I wonder who they look at for 3rd pair RD.

Stone is probably waiting by his phone, but there has to be something else...

 

TBH, I think BT's next move is a trade.

Monahan or Tkachuk for an overpay by some team.

 

 

Wouldn't mind Stone back tbh.

He looked pretty good in the limited viewings this past season and still has a cannon.

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1 hour ago, phoenix66 said:

nope.. not even close to done.

SOMETHNG has to happen with Johnny, we're not taking him into the season and riding him to UFA..his value drops every game if they do . 

 they either sign him or trade him.. and even tho he now has his 5 team list in effect, thats not too much of an obstacle cuz it doesnt take a rocket scientist to guess who those 5 teams are .. and all of them would love to have him.

My guess is we sign him ... but the big move is waiting for some dominoes to fall or somebody to blink

 

 

and i'd bet the farm Stone is back cheap again .. Sutter liked him , he plays the simple game 

 

Done as far as UFA signings perhaps.

I think we have to go easy until we know what trades we may do.

You don't sign a guy to play with Monahan or Tkachuk if you are perhaps dealing one of them.

Johnny wasn't going to sign bfore his NTC kicked in.

It doesn't worry me.

 

Stone is a easy/cheap/lazy move.

He doesn't make anyone better and is an okay player.

We lost offense from the D and only added a defensive player.

 

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a BUNCH OF WINERS.  It is day one and you are acting like we just found out we didn't qualify for the players already. We got cap room and assets they may be in play. Tre is not done. Maybe act positive instead of willing the bad to happen.

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14 hours ago, JTech780 said:

 

 

I'm just catching up with the last two days as I was out of town.

 

I didn't want Zach Hyman at anything over $5-mil-per on term and I definitely don't like Blake Coleman at $4.9 for 6-years.

 

Same reasons for both players.  Love them at under $3-mil-per.  $3-mil is sorta the max you want to pay for this type of hard working two-way player.  In a perfect world, you draft and develop this type of player and have them productive and cap friendly until UFA status.  After that, you cast them off and hope a sucker teams overpay for an aging asset that you've squeezed the best years out of. 

 

Today, the Flames are this sucker team.  You win Cups with these guys "as 3rd liners at under $3-mil-per", not as top 6 at $4.9-mil-per.

 

I think this signing has crossed a line for me.  BT with cap space is officially the most dangerous thing to this franchise and we cannot have this anymore.

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I'm good with how it has panned out so far.

I view the Flames a little differently than others I think.

Had we have rolled out the dough for a top RW and LD, that's where I would have been annoyed.

The whole, "Brett Ritchie's cheap and fine for the 4th line" mentality is clearly not mine.

No he isn't. The biggest problem I have with the Flames is the bottom 6 and lack of G prospects and prospects in general.

2 big names aren't making the base of the problem go away, which imo is not icing a full roster of NHL-quality players.

Prospects end up making this team because the roster is so bad. Or worse, camp invites of guys who almost made the NHL.

Having a great penthouse view in this league means nothing when your kitchen and living room are a disaster.

I'm all for cleaning up the messes first, then move on to improving the view.

So I like the Pitlick, Coleman and Lewis additions, because all 3 bring work ethic.

Something this team sorely lacks.

I'm fine with Zad the Impaler being added on D. Good. Destroy some people. Get ready to see teams always throw the puck to his side because they fear getting hit by him.

Long time since we've seen that.

2 young G prospects...gotta walk before you can run.

And be patient, because there's a lot more ailing this team than making giant trades and signings imho.

The compete level was in the toilet, that HAS to be addressed.

 

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7 hours ago, The_People1 said:

 

I'm just catching up with the last two days as I was out of town.

 

I didn't want Zach Hyman at anything over $5-mil-per on term and I definitely don't like Blake Coleman at $4.9 for 6-years.

 

Same reasons for both players.  Love them at under $3-mil-per.  $3-mil is sorta the max you want to pay for this type of hard working two-way player.  In a perfect world, you draft and develop this type of player and have them productive and cap friendly until UFA status.  After that, you cast them off and hope a sucker teams overpay for an aging asset that you've squeezed the best years out of. 

 

Today, the Flames are this sucker team.  You win Cups with these guys "as 3rd liners at under $3-mil-per", not as top 6 at $4.9-mil-per.

 

I think this signing has crossed a line for me.  BT with cap space is officially the most dangerous thing to this franchise and we cannot have this anymore.

For the most part I do agree with this assessment but I’m actually ok with Coleman, he’s only 5 years in the NHL so it is low milage at his age and style of play….now had he been in the NHL earlier with 10 years behind his belt well now we’re talking something to be mor cautious about..6 years is a bit long but if we get 3-4 solid years from him I think it’s worth while…term and $ are a bit higher but to be honest, I’d rather this over Lucic’s contract any day…hopefully Pits really wants Lucic…the only issue is how bad a contract we need to take back, hopefully one with either less term and less $…term though is the big issue I’d rather pay out 7 mil on a bad deal ending this season than taking on a 4.5 mil bad contract for another 2-4 years…it’s kinda like ripping off the bandaid idea…having said this, I doubt Lucic leaves as Sutter really likes him, and I can say Lucic seems to have improved a bit under Sutter…sometimes the right coach can get he most out some players and it seems Sutter can get really good results out of hardworking grinders…though I’d love to reallocate Lucic’s 5 mil to a top 2 RW…I just don’t see it for another 2 years or so.

 

anyway I definitely am ok with Coleman it’s only about 1.5 over pay and 1-2 years too long in term…could be worse could be Landeskog’s money and term 

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44 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

I'm just catching up with the last two days as I was out of town.

 

I didn't want Zach Hyman at anything over $5-mil-per on term and I definitely don't like Blake Coleman at $4.9 for 6-years.

 

Same reasons for both players.  Love them at under $3-mil-per.  $3-mil is sorta the max you want to pay for this type of hard working two-way player.  In a perfect world, you draft and develop this type of player and have them productive and cap friendly until UFA status.  After that, you cast them off and hope a sucker teams overpay for an aging asset that you've squeezed the best years out of. 

 

Today, the Flames are this sucker team.  You win Cups with these guys "as 3rd liners at under $3-mil-per", not as top 6 at $4.9-mil-per.

 

I think this signing has crossed a line for me.  BT with cap space is officially the most dangerous thing to this franchise and we cannot have this anymore.


I thought this earlier too. A lot say it’s a good deal for a few years, but the last two are going to be cap killers. I think this type of player is about 4-4.5M and I get you gotta pay the price in UFA. It’s why you gotta draft better than better. We are drafting better, but the bar was so low that this seems refreshing. 
 

maybe we are wrong and it’ll be fine for the duration. My bet is that when we have to re-up a player like Johnny or Tkachuk’s contracts, we will have to find a way to clear cap space. 
 

I am still interested in seeing how this all plays out but I am on the fence this time. 

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15 hours ago, phoenix66 said:

heres your Depth..

 

 

 

the Calgary Flames announced today that they have signed three free agents to two-way contracts:

NICK DESIMONE - DEFENCEMAN

BORN: East Amherst, NY DATE: November 21, 1994

HEIGHT: 6'2" WEIGHT: 190 lbs.

SHOOTS: Right

TERM: One year, two-way

AAV: $750,000

 

KEVIN GRAVEL - DEFENCEMAN

BORN: Kingsford, MI DATE: March 6, 1992

HEIGHT: 6'4" WEIGHT: 205 lbs.

SHOOTS: Left

DRAFTED: Los Angeles - 5th round (148th overall) in the 20210 NHL Draft

TERM: One year, two-way

AAV: $750,000

 

ADAM WERNER - GOALTENDER

BORN: Mariestad, Sweden DATE: May 2, 1997

HEIGHT: 6'5" WEIGHT: 198 lbs.

CATCHES: Left

TERM: One year, two-way

AAV: $750,000

 
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Finally.  

 

I like.   We need depth like this and we need moves where we don't give up picks.   Desimone and Werner both have the potential to contribute at the NHL level.  Is it likely?  No, but if the Flames did this more often, some would definitely rise up.

 

My only comment is that they're still going a bit old for this stuff.    There were similar FA players available in that 21-22 year old range, where they are still rapidly improving each year.

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Looks like there are a few options left out there for the bottom pairing RD.

 

Jani Hakanpaa, Erik Gudbransson and Michael Stone definitely seem like Sutter picks. Connor Carrick, Jason Demers, Sami Vatanen or even Greg Pateryn would probably be smarter choices.

 

The option I prefer is to go after Ryan Murray for a 2nd pair LD and play Zadorov on the 3rd pair right side.

 

There isn't a lot of options to improve the offense on free agency. I would look to sign guys like Ondrej Kase or even Jake Virtanen to really cheap deals to see if they can rebound or in Kase's case stay healthy. Sutter would probably be really good for a guy like Virtanen. I mean if Krejci would think about signing here I would give him a two year deal.

 

I would love to be able to add a guy like Casey Cizikas down the middle, he would replace a lot of what we are losing in Derek Ryan, but I think he might be a bit expansive.

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15 hours ago, phoenix66 said:

heres your Depth..

 

 

 

the Calgary Flames announced today that they have signed three free agents to two-way contracts:

NICK DESIMONE - DEFENCEMAN

BORN: East Amherst, NY DATE: November 21, 1994

HEIGHT: 6'2" WEIGHT: 190 lbs.

SHOOTS: Right

TERM: One year, two-way

AAV: $750,000

 

KEVIN GRAVEL - DEFENCEMAN

BORN: Kingsford, MI DATE: March 6, 1992

HEIGHT: 6'4" WEIGHT: 205 lbs.

SHOOTS: Left

DRAFTED: Los Angeles - 5th round (148th overall) in the 20210 NHL Draft

TERM: One year, two-way

AAV: $750,000

 

ADAM WERNER - GOALTENDER

BORN: Mariestad, Sweden DATE: May 2, 1997

HEIGHT: 6'5" WEIGHT: 198 lbs.

CATCHES: Left

TERM: One year, two-way

AAV: $750,000

 
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I like that Adam Werner signing. He's has success at multiple levels and is still in an age range where he can improve. Quality depth there. 

 

Rest are nothing special. 

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22 minutes ago, cross16 said:

 

I like that Adam Werner signing. He's has success at multiple levels and is still in an age range where he can improve. Quality depth there. 

 

Rest are nothing special. 

Such a weird range for goalies in the system in terms of height.  Markstrom, Vladar and Werner on the above average end and then Parsons and Wolf who are below the average height for goalies.

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2 hours ago, conundrumed said:

Had we have rolled out the dough for a top RW and LD, that's where I would have been annoyed.

The whole, "Brett Ritchie's cheap and fine for the 4th line" mentality is clearly not mine.

No he isn't. The biggest problem I have with the Flames is the bottom 6 and lack of G prospects and prospects in general.

2 big names aren't making the base of the problem go away, which imo is not icing a full roster of NHL-quality players.

Prospects end up making this team because the roster is so bad. Or worse, camp invites of guys who almost made the NHL.

 

We brought in Neal to fix the top 6 RW drought.  It didn't even last a season.  We tried the cheap route with PTO's and value player in the top 6.

Adding 3 players that are tough to play against; Coleman, Pitlick and Zaddy.  They take one for the team and give it out too.

Need to figure out who belongs where.

Lucic's attitude is great, though the footspeed is slipping.

Tkachuk - need to know what's going on with him.  Was it Gio's edict that turned him into a lazy player at times?  Is he looking at the door?

Monahan - worked on him to make him more of a complete player, but he was broken for part of the season.  Who fits him best?

Gaudreau - soft, but not lazy.  Probably makes sense to not play him with Ritchie?  Numbers jumped back up when he was with Lindholm.

Backlund - elite on transition, but pairing him with people that can't finish?  He's not great at finishing himself.

Dube - inconsistent, but that might come from not being matched up right.

 

As of now, the bottom 6 consists of Backlund, Lucic, Dube, Pitlick, Lewis and Ritchie.  Lucic's salary is equivalent to two decent middle/bottom 6 players.  He has a role here and I have no issue with the player, but it means that we are cheaping out elsewhere.  Ritchie instead of a Kase or Nick Ritchie.  

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9 hours ago, The_People1 said:

 

I'm just catching up with the last two days as I was out of town.

 

I didn't want Zach Hyman at anything over $5-mil-per on term and I definitely don't like Blake Coleman at $4.9 for 6-years.

 

Same reasons for both players.  Love them at under $3-mil-per.  $3-mil is sorta the max you want to pay for this type of hard working two-way player.  In a perfect world, you draft and develop this type of player and have them productive and cap friendly until UFA status.  After that, you cast them off and hope a sucker teams overpay for an aging asset that you've squeezed the best years out of. 

 

Today, the Flames are this sucker team.  You win Cups with these guys "as 3rd liners at under $3-mil-per", not as top 6 at $4.9-mil-per.

 

I think this signing has crossed a line for me.  BT with cap space is officially the most dangerous thing to this franchise and we cannot have this anymore.

Well he played the 3rd line with Gourde making 5.2 million on a team with Tyler Johnson making 5 on the 4th line, and come playoffs was getting more ice time than  Stamkos who makes 8.5.  When St. Louis won Alex Steen was basically a 6 million 3rd liner.  Mike Richards was a bottom 6 by LA's 2nd cup making over 5.  With Coleman I think he was good enough to play on a higher line, but the team had no use to mess with their already effective top 6's with Point-Palat-Kucherov and Cirelli-Stamkos-Killorn.

 

Guys like Jay Beagle get 3 million a year.  2.5 gets you Sean Kuraly who has never scored more than 10 goals in a season. Frederik Gaudreau and his 5 career goals just landed 1.2 million.  6 years may be too many but 4.9 isn't that bad, I'd take Coleman at 4.9 over Hoffman at 4.5, Granlund at 5, Wennberg at 4.5 or some of our old bottom pairing dmen like Forbort and Hamonic at 3. 

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19 minutes ago, sak22 said:

Well he played the 3rd line with Gourde making 5.2 million on a team with Tyler Johnson making 5 on the 4th line, and come playoffs was getting more ice time than  Stamkos who makes 8.5.  When St. Louis won Alex Steen was basically a 6 million 3rd liner.  Mike Richards was a bottom 6 by LA's 2nd cup making over 5.  With Coleman I think he was good enough to play on a higher line, but the team had no use to mess with their already effective top 6's with Point-Palat-Kucherov and Cirelli-Stamkos-Killorn.

 

Guys like Jay Beagle get 3 million a year.  2.5 gets you Sean Kuraly who has never scored more than 10 goals in a season. Frederik Gaudreau and his 5 career goals just landed 1.2 million.  6 years may be too many but 4.9 isn't that bad, I'd take Coleman at 4.9 over Hoffman at 4.5, Granlund at 5, Wennberg at 4.5 or some of our old bottom pairing dmen like Forbort and Hamonic at 3. 

 

Decent perspective.  The guys making less than $3m that take you to the cup are retained-salary trades and rookies on ELC's.  

But you also need the guys with higher salaries punching at their weight class or above.

 

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13 minutes ago, cross16 said:

Buddy Robinson off to the Ducks

 

 

 

That $350k AHL number seems to be popular.  Is that a new rate (up from $70k) or a maximum for a two-way deal?

Just curious.

I know BT is (seems) reluctant to give two way players more than the usual base.

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On 7/23/2021 at 6:36 AM, conundrumed said:

We should have signed Hathaway too. Do you see what we've done alternatively? Sign camp invites and call them NHLers even though they're not. I think this is Sutter saying "you have to have a bottom 6 in this league to succeed". 4th line isn't a throwaway line for prospects and periphery players. It's where the muck is and if you can't match the other teams muck, you're gonna lose more than you win.

4th lines on contenders are filled with experienced NHLers that know that role. Can pk/shutdown effectively etc.

Putting 8-10% of your cap into an effective 4th line is very important. It isn't a throwaway line like we've treated it.

I'm really happy we got him, We need a few more players like him. Hats off to Lucic for his heart, but let's face it, I skate better than him and Ritchie.

I'm glad Sutter's here, this roster is one soft mess.

So while everyone wants the prized #1RW, I'm all for improving the bottom 6, and a solid backup goalie.

Get a lot harder to play against, and Markstrom's amazing, get him a really good backup to support.

I'd be fine with Rittich, for the record. The only problem I ever had with him was the team in front of him.

 

Bruh come on, we all know Ritchie is top 6 with Gaudreau-Monahan.  That's the opening night top line.

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