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Horsman1

the tkachuk family

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Tkachuk’s comments make me think he has every intention of signing his QO next year and walking right out the door as a UFA. Probably best To move him now if possible. He doesn’t sound like a team guy in this case.

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17 minutes ago, ABC923 said:

Tkachuk’s comments make me think he has every intention of signing his QO next year and walking right out the door as a UFA. Probably best To move him now if possible. He doesn’t sound like a team guy in this case.

 

Like, this coming week, preferably.   His value will go down from there.   And this is very likely not the last stupid thing he says.

 

Good luck any Tkachuk ever being captain again.   Good luck any Tkachuk ever winning a cup.   Those teams are not the teams that will be interested in him.
 

This is a guy you trade to Edmonton.

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8 hours ago, robrob74 said:


I thought Thomas was a C?

 

Monahan has been crappy and if he’s not scoring, does nothing. Will he score again? Maybe. Was he injured the year before too? 
 

Lindholm 

Thomas

Backlund
 

I guess you’re moving Lindholm  to RW after your suggestion. 
 

 

Lindholm, Monahan, Backlund, Thomas, Richardson. Gives us options. C is the position to have strength in.

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5 hours ago, The_People1 said:

 

Again depends.

 

A Stud #1 C making $10-mil and a Norris Dman making $10-mil.  I believe with that, it's possible to round out the team into a contender.  But yes, it puts pressure on drafting and development.  You almost can't afford to fix roster problems via UFA at that point.

 

Yup.   UFA rarely fixes roster problems other than 3rd/4th line stuff.    

 

We need a pipeline if we want the cap to work.  We should be counting on impact players coming up through our system and starting at reasonable salary.   Stanley cups are made from an intersection of those players reaching their potential at the same time that your big salary vets show their worth.

 

Since we don't have a pipeline, our cap won't work no matter what we do, case closed, thus rebuild inevitable.

 

 

All that aside, Tkachuk just showed he's not the player who will take you there.   I'd take any of the above suggestions, and I'd also take picks.   No pipeline, no cup.

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4 hours ago, conundrumed said:

Lindholm, Monahan, Backlund, Thomas, Richardson. Gives us options. C is the position to have strength in.

 

Do we not have enough vanilla at C?  It's time to get a true #1 C.

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I don't get what everone is bent out of shape for. So family is involved with the negoations, they have been trough it, no big deal. Speculation has alway been Brady was the next captain, not sure the issue there. So the old man isn't a Sutter fan, well at least Sutter has 2 more cup rings than Dad. Now with the contract negoations for Matty he is suppose to get a raise from 7- 9 Million, into perspective a 22% increase, look at it as $11.00 hr to $14.25 pay increase same percentage. If your bosses offered you a 22% increase in wage would yuo turn it down? The amount of zeros on the back end may look different but pretty sure nobody says " hey in the teams best interest pay me less". Guys occassionally  take a discount to win a cup, we are not one of those teams. For me I wnat this club to win a cup, period. I grow tired of the oh its in Alberta, Taxes, Weather, Canadain city BS. Strange years ago you couldnt get guys to play for USA based teams, now they all want to play there, change the perception change the direction. 

 

The sounds of things Tre couldn't find a dance partner for the players we have, which screams trouble as the value is most obcviously not there. So we have 2 players who are key to the team iup for renewal, both are going to push to that 8 Plus million mark. Both slided last year but IMHO Matthew slide more than JG. Loved the MT from a couple years ago, last year he was like a petculant child. Logistically I feel JG is worth what we pay him now, Matthew has shown he is not. I get every team wants what Matty has but not just when Matty wants to bring it.  We know ownership doesn't want to rebuild or tank, however it  may happen by default. If both players require 23% of your cap space and have yet to move you in a direction of obtaining a cup is it worth the investment? The other issue is we couldn't trade either because values were to low and teams are cap strapped this club is not in a very good position moving forward. As I have stated before Tre has done some good things, but the key decisions have placed this club in a very poor positon moving forward. 

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3 hours ago, tmac70 said:

I don't get what everone is bent out of shape for. So family is involved with the negoations, they have been trough it, no big deal. Speculation has alway been Brady was the next captain, not sure the issue there. So the old man isn't a Sutter fan, well at least Sutter has 2 more cup rings than Dad. Now with the contract negoations for Matty he is suppose to get a raise from 7- 9 Million, into perspective a 22% increase, look at it as $11.00 hr to $14.25 pay increase same percentage. If your bosses offered you a 22% increase in wage would yuo turn it down? The amount of zeros on the back end may look different but pretty sure nobody says " hey in the teams best interest pay me less". Guys occassionally  take a discount to win a cup, we are not one of those teams. For me I wnat this club to win a cup, period. I grow tired of the oh its in Alberta, Taxes, Weather, Canadain city BS. Strange years ago you couldnt get guys to play for USA based teams, now they all want to play there, change the perception change the direction. 

 

The sounds of things Tre couldn't find a dance partner for the players we have, which screams trouble as the value is most obcviously not there. So we have 2 players who are key to the team iup for renewal, both are going to push to that 8 Plus million mark. Both slided last year but IMHO Matthew slide more than JG. Loved the MT from a couple years ago, last year he was like a petculant child. Logistically I feel JG is worth what we pay him now, Matthew has shown he is not. I get every team wants what Matty has but not just when Matty wants to bring it.  We know ownership doesn't want to rebuild or tank, however it  may happen by default. If both players require 23% of your cap space and have yet to move you in a direction of obtaining a cup is it worth the investment? The other issue is we couldn't trade either because values were to low and teams are cap strapped this club is not in a very good position moving forward. As I have stated before Tre has done some good things, but the key decisions have placed this club in a very poor positon moving forward. 

 

Well I definitely agree with that last part in particular, and most of the rest.

 

I'm not interested in trolling Tkachuk on here, I just want him gone, period.

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13 hours ago, The_People1 said:

 

Do we not have enough vanilla at C?  It's time to get a true #1 C.

Maybe. But depth is lacking to. Backlund's a good 2-3, as is Linholm, Mony, adding Thomas would be another. So overall, that strengthens the position!!

Maybe Mony gets back to being a 25-30G guy, definitely need that.

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I personally think it's unfair to criticize Tkachuk based on the comments or really read anything into them nor do I have a problem with what he said. I'm all for players maximizing their monetary value and don't agree with the notion that doing so makes them less of a team player. 

 

Do I think the Flames should trade Tkachuk, for the right return absolutely. But the decision should be based on if it makes the team better and not so much the contract or the fact that it may be a tough negotiation given his family. I agree that Gaudreau-Tkachuk-Mang is too much LW depth so unless one of them can switch to RW full time this year and have success it makes no sense to be paying all 3 of those guys the contracts they will get. 

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Prior to these recent comments, I was all for trading him to Buffalo. And I still am. Strength at the C position is more important than wing. 

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1 hour ago, lou44291 said:

Prior to these recent comments, I was all for trading him to Buffalo. And I still am. Strength at the C position is more important than wing. 

 

I was not up for any Eichel trades.  But now...  lol...

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6 hours ago, cross16 said:

I personally think it's unfair to criticize Tkachuk based on the comments or really read anything into them nor do I have a problem with what he said. I'm all for players maximizing their monetary value and don't agree with the notion that doing so makes them less of a team player. 

 

Do I think the Flames should trade Tkachuk, for the right return absolutely. But the decision should be based on if it makes the team better and not so much the contract or the fact that it may be a tough negotiation given his family. I agree that Gaudreau-Tkachuk-Mang is too much LW depth so unless one of them can switch to RW full time this year and have success it makes no sense to be paying all 3 of those guys the contracts they will get. 


Dube can play RW, but can’t he not be placed on the LW depth too? He’s just had to go RW otherwise he’d not have a spot to play? 

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Well the idea may be there, the offer is nuts. Tkachuk is young, a skilled player already with good results and intangibles. He has also been primarily healthy and currently is on an ok contract for next season. Yes Monahan had a down year, but has a cap friendly contract for 2 years. He also wants a 1st round pick? The 3 for an often and currently serious (neck needing surgery) injury a with 10 mil cap hit who openly requested a trade? No thank you.

 

Tkachuk is close in value to Eichel, Monahan is not just a cap dump candidate and a 1st round pick? No way.

 

I would expect Eichel plus for Tkachuk and Monahan without including a first from Calgary.

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2 hours ago, bosn111 said:

Well the idea may be there, the offer is nuts. Tkachuk is young, a skilled player already with good results and intangibles. He has also been primarily healthy and currently is on an ok contract for next season. Yes Monahan had a down year, but has a cap friendly contract for 2 years. He also wants a 1st round pick? The 3 for an often and currently serious (neck needing surgery) injury a with 10 mil cap hit who openly requested a trade? No thank you.

 

Tkachuk is close in value to Eichel, Monahan is not just a cap dump candidate and a 1st round pick? No way.

 

I would expect Eichel plus for Tkachuk and Monahan without including a first from Calgary.

 

And this is 9ne of the reasons it will probably never happen here, delusion on Eichel's value and Flames coming to grips with how BT has reduced the value of all our players with his decisions. 

 

Tkachuk and Gaudreau both have 100 point potential but not with both of them on the same team and position. 

 

Really, Eichel straight up for Tkachuk is not too far off.  But we won't see that.

 

If we want fair return, it's Tkachuk for picks.   Just how these things go.   Same with our other left wingers.

 

Tkachuk for two decent first rounders in 2021 and 2022? (Not late firsts)

 

Or, one first rounder projected in top 5 of either year.     Quite honestly 2022 preferably, with lotto rights. 

 

That would be my ask

 

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6 hours ago, bosn111 said:

Well the idea may be there, the offer is nuts. Tkachuk is young, a skilled player already with good results and intangibles. He has also been primarily healthy and currently is on an ok contract for next season. Yes Monahan had a down year, but has a cap friendly contract for 2 years. He also wants a 1st round pick? The 3 for an often and currently serious (neck needing surgery) injury a with 10 mil cap hit who openly requested a trade? No thank you.

 

Tkachuk is close in value to Eichel, Monahan is not just a cap dump candidate and a 1st round pick? No way.

 

I would expect Eichel plus for Tkachuk and Monahan without including a first from Calgary.

 

Reality is, proven Centers are going to cost more than Wingers.  Dubios went for Laine+Roslovic even when you could argue Laine is the best player in the trade.

 

If BUF offer sheets Brady at $10.2, then I agree OTT may not match... Brady is not worth a cent more than $8.  But this also means BUF will be prepared to pay Matthew $10.2+ after his current contract is over.

 

I'm taking Eichel at $10 over any of the Tkachuk's at $10.2.

 

About Monahan, his trade value is super low so I understand the reluctance to sell low... But we need to clear cap.  If BUF would take Lucic and Lucic would waive, then that would be nice.  At this point, there's not many good options for clearing $3-mil + Matthew ($7)

 

In regards to the 1st round pick, if we can do lotto protected and conditional on Eichel re-injuring his neck the first season, then that's a fair add.  

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30 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

Reality is, proven Centers are going to cost more than Wingers.  Dubios went for Laine+Roslovic even when you could argue Laine is the best player in the trade.

 

If BUF offer sheets Brady at $10.2, then I agree OTT may not match... Brady is not worth a cent more than $8.  But this also means BUF will be prepared to pay Matthew $10.2+ after his current contract is over.

 

I'm taking Eichel at $10 over any of the Tkachuk's at $10.2.

 

About Monahan, his trade value is super low so I understand the reluctance to sell low... But we need to clear cap.  If BUF would take Lucic and Lucic would waive, then that would be nice.  At this point, there's not many good options for clearing $3-mil + Matthew ($7)

 

In regards to the 1st round pick, if we can do lotto protected and conditional on Eichel re-injuring his neck the first season, then that's a fair add.  

 

I'm starting to wonder if Conumdrumed may be onto something.

Tarasenko + Thomas for Tkachuk may be the smartest move for this team.

It means we can keep Monahan and Gaudreau plus have an option for a top 6 C, if not a 3rd line C.

Get a sniper for the PP.

Motivated player.

 

I think he has had bad coaches over the last few years.

Even if we end up trading him, he could be a steal right now.

And we get a young C, which is what we need.

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9 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

I'm starting to wonder if Conumdrumed may be onto something.

Tarasenko + Thomas for Tkachuk may be the smartest move for this team.

It means we can keep Monahan and Gaudreau plus have an option for a top 6 C, if not a 3rd line C.

Get a sniper for the PP.

Motivated player


I don’t mind Conundrumed’s idea either TD - though, we’d run into the same cap issues as with an Eichel trade. I’m not well versed on Thomas tho - does he have too 6 C potential? Word is Thomas is looking for around what Kyrou got. Combined with Tarasenko, we’re looking at $11ish million cap. I do like the ideas, let’s keep’em coming. (Or move them to the trades thread). 

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6 minutes ago, lou44291 said:


I don’t mind Conundrumed’s idea either TD - though, we’d run into the same cap issues as with an Eichel trade. I’m not well versed on Thomas tho - does he have too 6 C potential? Word is Thomas is looking for around what Kyrou got. Combined with Tarasenko, we’re looking at $11ish million cap. I do like the ideas, let’s keep’em coming. (Or move them to the trades thread). 

 

I think it would work if we had them retain $1.5m.

Or half that amount and we send them Ritchie or Stone.

Just to make money work.

Might have to send them a 3rd to account for the money retention.

But really, them getting a Tkachuk is a huge win.

Media darling in a place like St. Lou.

They love the miserable players like Perron. 

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To be forthcoming, I have a huge bias for Thomas since jr. Leaves it all on the ice. Swathed onto a good St Loo roster at 19, played some huge games in the cup run.

Keith Tkachuk commented after one game it was the best performance he had ever seen by a 19yo in the playoffs.

Would need some Tara retention. 

Would give us more options. 

We are one center injury away from uhoh.

Thomas could play all situations. Strengthened C/RW.

 

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4 minutes ago, conundrumed said:

To be forthcoming, I have a huge bias for Thomas since jr. Leaves it all on the ice. Swathed onto a good St Loo roster at 19, played some huge games in the cup run.

Keith Tkachuk commented after one game it was the best performance he had ever seen by a 19yo in the playoffs.

Would need some Tara retention. 

Would give us more options. 

We are one center injury away from uhoh.

Thomas could play all situations. Strengthened C/RW.

 

 

I am neither agreeing or disagreeing your assessment.

To me, it's a power move.

They want Tank gone and are meh on signing Thomas for his worth.

We value Tkachuk for being a SOB, which is fine.

His hockey sense alludes him when he plays to his choice to exploit toughness.

We can do without paying $9m for that and at the same time picking up a vet and a good young player.

Tank's next deal is less than Tkachuk and we could easily give Thomas a bridge deal.

And Tank may actually bring in a ton if he plays really well and we think we can't resign him.

A bit old, but snipers don't grow on trees (or Tre's).

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1 hour ago, travel_dude said:

 

I think it would work if we had them retain $1.5m.

Or half that amount and we send them Ritchie or Stone.

Just to make money work.

Might have to send them a 3rd to account for the money retention.

But really, them getting a Tkachuk is a huge win.

Media darling in a place like St. Lou.

They love the miserable players like Perron. 

 

1 hour ago, lou44291 said:


I don’t mind Conundrumed’s idea either TD - though, we’d run into the same cap issues as with an Eichel trade. I’m not well versed on Thomas tho - does he have too 6 C potential? Word is Thomas is looking for around what Kyrou got. Combined with Tarasenko, we’re looking at $11ish million cap. I do like the ideas, let’s keep’em coming. (Or move them to the trades thread). 

 

1 hour ago, conundrumed said:

To be forthcoming, I have a huge bias for Thomas since jr. Leaves it all on the ice. Swathed onto a good St Loo roster at 19, played some huge games in the cup run.

Keith Tkachuk commented after one game it was the best performance he had ever seen by a 19yo in the playoffs.

Would need some Tara retention. 

Would give us more options. 

We are one center injury away from uhoh.

Thomas could play all situations. Strengthened C/RW.

 

I really like Thomas but his ceiling is a Curtis Glencross.  That's not even close to the ceiling of a Eichel.

 

That's not to say we shouldn't trade Tkachuk for Thomas but the return has to be good.  Maybe wishful thinking but I want Parayko.  That 6'-6" 230lbs RHS RD 28-years-old... he's what we need moving forward.  If there's a way to do Thomas + Parayko then i'm all for it.  Forget Tarasenko because his shoulders are done.  He lost his slapshot which was his #1 weapon.  

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1 hour ago, The_People1 said:

 

 

 

I really like Thomas but his ceiling is a Curtis Glencross.  That's not even close to the ceiling of a Eichel.

 

That's not to say we shouldn't trade Tkachuk for Thomas but the return has to be good.  Maybe wishful thinking but I want Parayko.  That 6'-6" 230lbs RHS RD 28-years-old... he's what we need moving forward.  If there's a way to do Thomas + Parayko then i'm all for it.  Forget Tarasenko because his shoulders are done.  He lost his slapshot which was his #1 weapon.  

His ceiling isn't Glencross.lol

His comparables have been Horvat, Backlund and a poor man's Bergeron.

50 pts realistic, 70 pt peak.

Great 200' center. Only 22.

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1 hour ago, The_People1 said:

 

 

 

I really like Thomas but his ceiling is a Curtis Glencross.  That's not even close to the ceiling of a Eichel.

 

That's not to say we shouldn't trade Tkachuk for Thomas but the return has to be good.  Maybe wishful thinking but I want Parayko.  That 6'-6" 230lbs RHS RD 28-years-old... he's what we need moving forward.  If there's a way to do Thomas + Parayko then i'm all for it.  Forget Tarasenko because his shoulders are done.  He lost his slapshot which was his #1 weapon.  


 

what about Tkachuk and Andersson for Thomas and Parayko? 

 

Hanifin, Parayko 

Valamaki, Tanev

Zadorov, Gudbranson 

Stone 

 

 

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