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I didn't find the Burke post... But i found my breakdown of what i thought of Gillis' first summer in Vancouver...

Posted back in Oct 2008.. heh heh... Four Years Later and its still the exact same $hit :lol: . One would think I would of learned by now! hahaha...

Definite eye opener!

And with this realization... I quietly bow out of this conversation. But please, carry on as if the conversation has never happened before...

<!--quoteo(post=301932:date=Oct 3 2008, 02:15 PM:name=WolvenK)--><blockquote><strong class="quote-title">QUOTE (WolvenK @ Oct 3 2008, 02:15 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=301932"></a></strong><hr><p><!--quotec-->I don't think Gillis has done a good job at all. He hasn't been able to fill his cap space nor address his scoring issues, he wasted a lot of time on Sundin. He sent out that offer sheet to the Blues player and cheesed off a fellow GM.

All in all, I think Gillis has done pretty poorly, which is what would be expected from a noob GM.<!--QuoteEnd--></blockquote><!--QuoteEEnd-->

<i>I'll disagree...</i>

He let Naslund and Morrison walk... that took guts, and instantly changed the direction of the team.

Let Ritchie and Isbister walk (thank god)...

Brought in Demitra for a great price. Traded for Brenier.

Got a free asset in Wellwood.

Made a play for Backes and then knowing the Blues weren't able to budget in RJ as well, signed him as soon as the Blues matched. (RJ... the Blues top PKer. Led the league in blocks for a forward. Got some votes for the Selke Trophy as the top defensive forward.)

Added grit and sandpaper by getting a player that can win fights in Hordichuk... and on Defense - added size and toughness by letting Weaver go as the 7th, and bringing in Davidson.

Let's review...

<b>Gone</b> - Naslund, Morrison, Linden, Richie, Isbister, Weaver

<b>Here </b>- Demitra, Bernier, Wellwood, RJ, Hordichuk, Davidson

Just because he hasn't signed a big named forward does not mean he's failing... he's filled holes that the team needed. HUGELY Upgraded the quality depth and role players. Team is faster, tougher grittier and more difficult to play against.

And the jury is still out on whether the scoring has not been improved.

The top line looks better.

2nd line looks Much better.

PP looks better (i think 8/9 PP goals so far)

Better at faceoffs.

Better PK.

--- All due to moves Gillis has directly made.

<b>Brought in</b><i> Mellanby, Gilman, Walter, Gagne</i>... all quality hockey minds.

He has owners investing into the team - they now have the highest budget in the league in on player development - Dave Gagne's focus...

This team is moving in a completely different direction than last yr...

<i>Added organizational</i> depth with signings of Baumgartner, Krog, Cullan etc, and trading Shannon for Nycholat... a redundant asset for a required depth piece.

To say he's done poorly because he hasn't signed a player you've heard of is extremely short-sighted... and frankly flat out wrong, and obviously biased. but what do i expect to read here, right.

and this on the heals of the team he's put together going 6-0 in preseason. at least wait until his teams starts the season 2-8-1.

Ask any (logical) Canuck fan, and they're pretty happy with the job he's done so far.

The only people who are worried about the cap space are Gillis' critics who somehow consider $10 mil in cap space as a sign of failure...

Play GM for a second...what would you do with the $10 mil in cap space? Who would spend it on?

Sign Parrish? Throw $5mil at Shannahan?

The best option is to sit on for now. What signing(s) that occured this July should Gillis have jumped on? Bertuzzi? Nolan?

all things considered... its gone very well.

<!--quoteo--><blockquote><strong class="quote-title">QUOTE </strong><hr><p><!--quotec-->Gillis has one major move to make (or a couple) and that is to beef up with his remaining cap space.<!--QuoteEnd--></blockquote><!--QuoteEEnd-->

if the team performs... guess what... he can sit on that $10 mil till the trade deadline...

there is no pressure right now to use that cap space...

And if we don't have to use it... we'll be laughing next yr...

<!--quoteo--><blockquote><strong class="quote-title">QUOTE </strong><hr><p><!--quotec-->I don't think Burke is the reason Vancouver couldn't get free agents. Look at him with the Ducks, he has guys willing to game the (retirement) system in order to play on his team.<!--QuoteEnd--></blockquote><!--QuoteEEnd-->

you must of missed all those interviews with Burke when he was here... 'i refuse to pay these ridiculous contracts... blah blah.. if it doesn't make sense for this organization, i won't do it, and guess what... it doesn't make sense for this organization..' etc. Nonis.. say thing.... ' the asking price is just too high righ now'... etc.

For the record... his moves in that one summer resulted in the Canucks going from out of the playoffs to division title and 2nd round of the playoffs.

(yes Peeps.. i realize what the bible that is wiki said about Naslund and Morrison)

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the core consists of: Eddie Lack, Jordan Schroeder, Anton Rodin, Dan Hamhuis, David Booth, Zack Kassian, Chris Tanev and Nicklas Jensen. The Canucks then go on to win the Stanley Cup 4 years after Gillis leaves.

Would Mike Gillis then get all the credit for the SC win, and the new guy simply just be along for the ride?

I guess I see your point of view. I completely disagree with it

If that's the "core" that wins, then yea, that was all Gillis. Because who else is responsible for it?

I didn't find the Burke post... But i found my breakdown of what i thought of Gillis' first summer in Vancouver...

Gillis is a good GM. Never denied that. Just not "one of the best in the league" but he's good.

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"Nuck fans are getting rather defensive.

Gillis made some good moves & some that weren't so good. So did Nonis.

End result = 0 Cups.

:)

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"Nuck fans are getting rather defensive.

Gillis made some good moves & some that weren't so good. So did Nonis.

End result = 0 Cups.

:)

As for the city of Vancouver... I think it was beneficial...

Better to be one and done after the first series to an lowly 8th seed, than face elimination in the final round due to a choke and cause the ensuing riots....

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If that's the "core" that wins, then yea, that was all Gillis. Because who else is responsible for it?

Gillis is a good GM. Never denied that. Just not "one of the best in the league" but he's good.

You know my answer the that question. If Gillis builds a strong core and a new guy adds the support to push the team over the top, why wouldn't the latter get any credit? It's not black and white as saying "either this guy gets all the credit or that guy does". They can share.

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Putting the uber-serious stuff aside for a minute, let's look at the lighter side of the game.

Roberto Luongo might sneakily be the most clever player in the game: http://vansunsportsb...witter-account/

Bwahahahahahahaahahaahahaahahaha!

I can't wait to see what the Nucks get back for either Lu or Schneider...Everybody is making such a big deal out of this.

Drive that market up I say ;)

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Putting the uber-serious stuff aside for a minute, let's look at the lighter side of the game.

Roberto Luongo might sneakily be the most clever player in the game: http://vansunsportsblogs.com/2012/04/27/the-continuing-adventures-of-roberto-luongos-super-secret-suspected-twitter-account/

And you are not the real Don Taylor, right?

Right ;)

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I'm not sure about the Canucks and their defence going into next season.

They lose an offensive right hand shot defenceman in Salo who probably could've been re-signed for 3 mil over two years.

They replace him with Garrison. He came out of nowhere this season as a career AHLer. He played on a pairing with Campbell getting 13 goals. He was signed on a six year, 4.6 mil cap hit. He could very easily end up being a bust like Ballard. I think this contract will come back to the Canucks.

Is their window already closing?

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I'm not sure about the Canucks and their defence going into next season.

They lose an offensive right hand shot defenceman in Salo who probably could've been re-signed for 3 mil over two years.

They replace him with Garrison. He came out of nowhere this season as a career AHLer. He played on a pairing with Campbell getting 13 goals. He was signed on a six year, 4.6 mil cap hit. He could very easily end up being a bust like Ballard. I think this contract will come back to the Canucks.

Is their window already closing?

i'm going with a bold prediction that Canucks don't even make the playoffs

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i'm going with a bold prediction that Canucks don't even make the playoffs

That's pretty bold.

The only way I can see that possibly happening is if Gillis doesn't trade Luongo and it eats away at the dressing room.

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That's pretty bold.

The only way I can see that possibly happening is if Gillis doesn't trade Luongo and it eats away at the dressing room.

Even if that happened they still make it... 8 spots. How do they miss?

Injuries (major/lots) is the only way. I hate the nucks more than anyone, but can see clearly that they are a talented team. To much depth/skill. + they are in the weakest division in hockey. Pretty much every team is rebuilding in the NW.

Can't see Vancouver missing out on 3rd min.

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Just doing some catching up here...

I'm not sure about the Canucks and their defence going into next season.

They lose an offensive right hand shot defenceman in Salo who probably could've been re-signed for 3 mil over two years.

They replace him with Garrison. He came out of nowhere this season as a career AHLer. He played on a pairing with Campbell getting 13 goals. He was signed on a six year, 4.6 mil cap hit. He could very easily end up being a bust like Ballard. I think this contract will come back to the Canucks.

Is their window already closing?

Salo signed for $3.75 for TWO years. I love Salo and everything he did for the Canucks in his time, but that would be a contract even you would be laughing at. He is good for 50 games a year, and his deteriation over the last 2 years even when he was "healthy" was significant. He is not worth more than the $2M he made last year. Good luck in Tampa Sami! You'll be remembered for your booming shot and one of the better defencemen in Canucks history, and the odd harmless jab about injuries.

How is Garrison a career AHLer? He's played 2 full seasons of top 4 minutes in a row. WHo cares if he played with Brian Campbell? Is Brian Campbell suddenly Bobby Orr? Is Brian Campbell significantly better than Alex Edler, his likely partner in Vancouver?

He actually scored 16 goals. Only Weber and Karlsson had more. Weber has Suter on his pair all year, why aren't his goals discounted? He's better than Brian Campbell. Garrison also had the 4th best sh% with Dmen with more than 50 shots. Only Kronwall had more with Dmen over 100 shots. Only Weber had more PP Goals. More than makes up for what we lose with Salo.

And the best part about him is he is not an offensive defenceman. If anything, he is a possesion defenceman. Great Corsi and possesion numbers. Can play physical. Smart with the puck. His contributions 5 on 5 will not be measured in points, he may or may not even be a 40-point defenceman. It'll be measured in the way he can cover for his likely partner in Edler who should be able to take lots of risks and join the rush.

$4.6M is a steal, especially compared to Wideman.

This is usually my favorite time of year on this board, because the players that Flames fans hated on a said sucked all year that now left the Canucks are suddenly superstars and the Canucks did not replace them well enough. We will not miss Salo, other than him being a likeable player.

i'm going with a bold prediction that Canucks don't even make the playoffs

LOL

That's pretty bold.

The only way I can see that possibly happening is if Gillis doesn't trade Luongo and it eats away at the dressing room.

I was going to say the only way I see is if Luongo is traded and Schneider suffers a serious injury.

This team proved last year that they can not only make the playoffs, but win the Presidents Trophy while playing uninterested or distracted most of the year.

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Just doing some catching up here...

Salo signed for $3.75 for TWO years. I love Salo and everything he did for the Canucks in his time, but that would be a contract even you would be laughing at. He is good for 50 games a year, and his deteriation over the last 2 years even when he was "healthy" was significant. He is not worth more than the $2M he made last year. Good luck in Tampa Sami! You'll be remembered for your booming shot and one of the better defencemen in Canucks history, and the odd harmless jab about injuries.

How is Garrison a career AHLer? He's played 2 full seasons of top 4 minutes in a row. WHo cares if he played with Brian Campbell? Is Brian Campbell suddenly Bobby Orr? Is Brian Campbell significantly better than Alex Edler, his likely partner in Vancouver?

He actually scored 16 goals. Only Weber and Karlsson had more. Weber has Suter on his pair all year, why aren't his goals discounted? He's better than Brian Campbell. Garrison also had the 4th best sh% with Dmen with more than 50 shots. Only Kronwall had more with Dmen over 100 shots. Only Weber had more PP Goals. More than makes up for what we lose with Salo.

And the best part about him is he is not an offensive defenceman. If anything, he is a possesion defenceman. Great Corsi and possesion numbers. Can play physical. Smart with the puck. His contributions 5 on 5 will not be measured in points, he may or may not even be a 40-point defenceman. It'll be measured in the way he can cover for his likely partner in Edler who should be able to take lots of risks and join the rush.

$4.6M is a steal, especially compared to Wideman.

This is usually my favorite time of year on this board, because the players that Flames fans hated on a said sucked all year that now left the Canucks are suddenly superstars and the Canucks did not replace them well enough. We will not miss Salo, other than him being a likeable player.

LOL

I was going to say the only way I see is if Luongo is traded and Schneider suffers a serious injury.

This team proved last year that they can not only make the playoffs, but win the Presidents Trophy while playing uninterested or distracted most of the year.

Salo's contract is bad but he probably would've taken a lot less to stay in couver. I'm not sold on Garrison. I guess we'll see but Ballard was another defenceman out of Florida that became a big flop once he hit Vancouver.

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Salo's contract is bad but he probably would've taken a lot less to stay in couver. I'm not sold on Garrison. I guess we'll see but Ballard was another defenceman out of Florida that became a big flop once he hit Vancouver.

Salo was offered less to play in Vancouver. Signing Salo may have prevented us from signing Garrison, no matter the price, so losing Salo won't hurt us.

Sold or not on Garrison, Ballard has nothing to do with how he will play.

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Salo was offered less to play in Vancouver. Signing Salo may have prevented us from signing Garrison, no matter the price, so losing Salo won't hurt us.

Sold or not on Garrison, Ballard has nothing to do with how he will play.

It's funny, absolutely hilarious the two completely different directions the Flames and Canucks are heading.

While the Flames are gearing up to becoming a true Stanley cup contender (something us champions are use to - winning - unlike the Canucks who are content of getting eliminated after a few games in the playoffs!), the Canucks are focus on just trying to build a mediocer team, just trying to get into the playoffs.

Look at our acquisitions this summer Hudler, Cervenka, Wideman, the resigning of Stempy and Sarich. It gives me goose bumps for next year thinking about the stacked and the depth our roster has. Feaster has Stanley Cup Champions written all over this years roster. On paper we are about 4 times the team the Canucks will ever be in their history of NHL.

When I compare to Loser Gillis's signings. I L'd.O.L for a few hours at Garrison's signing. So I guess if you just play some decent hockey for one season and get about half the points Wideman and just a 10th of his career, you deserve 90% of Wideman's salary. That is an absolute joke. Gillis loves to smoke crack before he goes into contract negotiations. Of course, Donnie and DL are going to say something else because of the canucks rose colour glasses.

Enjoy the first overall pick of next years draft Canucks fans, while we're stuck at picking 30th.

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It's funny, absolutely hilarious the two completely different directions the Flames and Canucks are heading.

While the Flames are gearing up to becoming a true Stanley cup contender (something us champions are use to - winning - unlike the Canucks who are content of getting eliminated after a few games in the playoffs!), the Canucks are focus on just trying to build a mediocer team, just trying to get into the playoffs.

Look at our acquisitions this summer Hudler, Cervenka, Wideman, the resigning of Stempy and Sarich. It gives me goose bumps for next year thinking about the stacked and the depth our roster has. Feaster has Stanley Cup Champions written all over this years roster. On paper we are about 4 times the team the Canucks will ever be in their history of NHL.

When I compare to Loser Gillis's signings. I L'd.O.L for a few hours at Garrison's signing. So I guess if you just play some decent hockey for one season and get about half the points Wideman and just a 10th of his career, you deserve 90% of Wideman's salary. That is an absolute joke. Gillis loves to smoke crack before he goes into contract negotiations. Of course, Donnie and DL are going to say something else because of the canucks rose colour glasses.

Enjoy the first overall pick of next years draft Canucks fans, while we're stuck at picking 30th.

Didn't you say all this before last season? What happened there?

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Didn't you say all this before last season? What happened there?

Good Ol Donnie, you love to dwell on the past don't you. IE like how you guys won back to back Presidents Trophies eons ago, or how you guys go into the finals or how you were so close to winning a cup in 94. You can't really say that about 2010/11 because Boston absolutely raped the Canucks outscoring you 23-7! (LOL) At least Calgary can say we're champions (Something you cannot say)

But really you need to live in the present and look towards the future. Oh right it doesn't look that bright for the Nucks so you can only say "Whatever, we won back to back Presidents trophies so thats like equivalent to a Stanley Cup" lol NEWSFLASH donnie, its not the same as winning the Stanley Cup. Calgary Flames are stanley cup champions, you guys never have been and never will be. Especially with the garbage signing of Garrison for 5millions per year! lol Wideman is 100x better and exactly the same cost! hahahahaha

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A small box of decent cigars... $300.00

A bottle of good Scotch... $275.00...

A comfortable office chair... $250.00

A front row seat for this exchange... Priceless... :)

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A small box of decent cigars... $300.00

A bottle of good Scotch... $275.00...

A comfortable office chair... $250.00

A front row seat for this exchange... Priceless... :)

Heh... July 5th seems a little early for this doesn't it? ah well.

Over Under

Wideman's +/-: 0.5 Will he be a plus player or a minus player for Calgary?

Last yr Calgary had the 14th best GA. Will their GA be better or worse than last yr?

I honestly can't wait to see how Wideman gets used this yr in Calgary. He's used to and capable of 24mins/night...

He led the Caps D in ice time during the season... but was dropped to 5th in the playoffs when the games were tight.

I can't wait to see how the expectations compare to actual results with Wideman's defensive game. I haven't paid much attention... but what's Wideman's expected offensive output for the Flames this yr? O/U 40?

Garrison is an unknown for me outside of reading and watching a youtube highlight reel.

Like his size. Love the shot. I heard someone did an analysis of his 16 goals, and 13 were from his slapshot.

I first heard of him after the 2010-2011 season when i was doing a defensive defensemen advanced stats analysis and he was ranked in the top 10 in the league shorthanded. i was like who? So i'm stoked about having him handle the PK...

My expectations... a solid defensive dman that's reliable in his own zone. Not a puck mover, or a silky smooth skater... but has the shot. The blast from the point PP is usually the reserved strategy for our 2nd unit... so that's where i expect him - basically where Salo was used as well. Except on 5-on-3's. So 16g again could be unlikely... unless the PP can return to #1 status again.

Who gets more pts: Hudler or Jokinen?

Who gets more pts: Kassian or Backlund?

I know Baert will make the team in Calgary...

I can't wait to see how Jensen looks this summer.

anyways..

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Garrison is an unknown for me outside of reading and watching a youtube highlight reel.

Like his size. Love the shot. I heard someone did an analysis of his 16 goals, and 13 were from his slapshot.

I watched a bit of him in the Devils/Panthers series. Great shot is right.

Shot Power: 9

Shot Accuracy: 8

Passing: 6

Speed: 6

Vision Offense: 8

Vision Defense: 7

Size: 5

Toughness: 5

You kind of never notice him until the Panthers are in the offensive zone. He's not the kind of guy to rush the puck up ice end to end. Not flashy. Uses his smarts and positioning well. Not a defensive liability but not an intimidating presence on the ice either. They use him at the point very well as he always somehow ends up touching the puck in the series of plays.

I think he's a solid 3/4 on the depth chart on any team.

If he was a Right Hand shot, I would've lobbied for the Flames to sign him like we did with Wideman. It's going to be interesting to see how the Canucks will use him to replace Salo because again, Garrison is a Left Hand shot.

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At present, it looks like:

Sedin - Sedin - Burrows

Higgins - Kesler IR- Booth

Hansen - Malhotra - Kassian

Volpatti - Lapierre - Pinizzotto

Ebbett - Schroeder - Jensen

Hamhuis - Bieksa

Edler - Garrison

Ballard - Tanev

Alberts - Joslin

Luongo

Schneider

RFA's : Weise, Raymond, Lack

=======================================

Tanguay - Cammaleri - Iginla

Glencross - Cervenka - Hudler

Baertchi - Backlund - Stempniak

Comeau - Stajan - Jones

Ailu, Jackman, Bouma

Bouwmeester - Butler

Giordano - Wideman

Brodie - Sarich

Smith

Kipper

Irving

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While the Flames are gearing up to becoming a true Stanley cup contender (something us champions are use to - winning - unlike the Canucks who are content of getting eliminated after a few games in the playoffs!), the Canucks are focus on just trying to build a mediocer team, just trying to get into the playoffs.

Look at our acquisitions this summer Hudler, Cervenka, Wideman, the resigning of Stempy and Sarich. It gives me goose bumps for next year thinking about the stacked and the depth our roster has. Feaster has Stanley Cup Champions written all over this years roster. On paper we are about 4 times the team the Canucks will ever be in their history of NHL.

When I compare to Loser Gillis's signings. I L'd.O.L for a few hours at Garrison's signing. So I guess if you just play some decent hockey for one season and get about half the points Wideman and just a 10th of his career, you deserve 90% of Wideman's salary. That is an absolute joke. Gillis loves to smoke crack before he goes into contract negotiations. Of course, Donnie and DL are going to say something else because of the canucks rose colour glasses.

Enjoy the first overall pick of next years draft Canucks fans, while we're stuck at picking 30th.

No one, and I mean no one that has any credibility in the NHL and of NHL media would call the Flames a contender or even headed in that direction.

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Good Ol Donnie, you love to dwell on the past don't you. IE like how you guys won back to back Presidents Trophies eons ago, or how you guys go into the finals or how you were so close to winning a cup in 94. You can't really say that about 2010/11 because Boston absolutely raped the Canucks outscoring you 23-7! (LOL) At least Calgary can say we're champions (Something you cannot say)

But really you need to live in the present and look towards the future. Oh right it doesn't look that bright for the Nucks so you can only say "Whatever, we won back to back Presidents trophies so thats like equivalent to a Stanley Cup" lol NEWSFLASH donnie, its not the same as winning the Stanley Cup. Calgary Flames are stanley cup champions, you guys never have been and never will be. Especially with the garbage signing of Garrison for 5millions per year! lol Wideman is 100x better and exactly the same cost! hahahahaha

Good 'ol Derf.

"Quit living in the past Donnie! The Canucks' President's Trohpies were eons ago!"

"We won the Stanley cup in 1989!!! Therefore Flames > Canucks in all matters!"

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Good 'ol Derf.

"Quit living in the past Donnie! The Canucks' President's Trohpies were eons ago!"

"We won the Stanley cup in 1989!!! Therefore Flames > Canucks in all matters!"

Enough with the past Donnie, Get a grip on the future k!

Lets talk about current Contracts, Overpaid, or good value players on both teams

Vancouver Canucks:

Sedins (Overpaid) for players just cracking 70 points making 6.1 Million is a slight over payment

Kesler (Way Overpaid) 5million for a player just getting 40 points is a joke

Malhotra (Overpaid) 2.5 million to some one who can't skate, can't shoot or pass, the only thing he can do satisfactory is faceoffs is one of Gillis's worst signings ever

Burrows (Good Value) 2million for a player who's been consistently scoring is one of Vancouver only good signings.

Garrison (Way overpaid) 1 season of NHL play with 33 points and the rest of his career in the AHL has got to be the worst signing in the history of the NHL

Ballard (Way overpaid) No explanation needed here. Canucks Fans are sour about this

Luongo (Way overpaid) 10million last season for a goalie who was sitting during clutch Playoff games. I was laughing till today on that one. Good luck Canucks fans trying to get rid of that outrageous contract.

Schneider (overpaid) 4million for a back up goalie who has yet to prove himself as a starter or a goalie who can carry a season of 50 games plus

Calgary Flames

Iginla (Fair Value) 7million for a guaranteed 30+ goal a season guy (averages about 40G per season)

Hudler (Bargain) 4million for the best two way player in the past 2-3 seasons

Glencross (Bargain) 2.5 Million for a player who can put up 26G in 67Games

Backlund (Bargain) .675 Million for a bright prospect! Canucks don't even have one prospect in their system! lol

Baertschi (Bargain) at under 1.5M per season, probably the best young prospect in the NHL that is upcoming! watch out Canucks fans

JBo (Fair Value) 6.6Mil for the best defensive and best skating Dman in the League

Wideman (Bargain) 5.25Mil - Wideman took a big discount to play with a Stanley Cup contender. Could have fetched 6.5Mil anywhere else. He has great faith in our team.

Kiprusoff (Bargain) at 5.8Mil for the most consistent starting goalie since he's brought our team to the Finals.

Whats exciting? our team is filled up with many young talented prospects while Canucks are just relying on Old - past their prime type players in the core because they their drafting is the worst in the NHL.

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