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Discussion & Debate Thread: Flames and Canucks

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lol.... im all for rivalry banter and disliking each others teams but how can anyone watch that clip ( DL's or Irwins ) and try saying that Sedin tried turning at the very last second or was trying to draw a penalty ?  There is no question that Sedin started to stop as he got closer to the boards but he was skating towards the puck the entire time so that means his back was facing Byron . Even if he did glance over his shoulder and see that Byron was closing in on him, its not Sedins responsibilty to have to turn around and face him for a hit. Its Byron's responsibilty not to hit someone from behind.

 

I do agree that Byron didnt intend to hurt Daniel and it was very classy to own up for his hit by texting daniel and apologizing but the 'blame the vicitim' card is a silly argument

 

 

5 and a game was the right call and the league also got it right with no further suspension.

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Meanwhile many of us don't know how Canucks fans can say he doesn't turn last second haha. I don't think he was trying to draw a penalty, but I don't know how anyone can deny the turn at 0:19 in that full clip. That's not a "silly argument" to me, that's pointing out a huge factor in why an accident occurred.

 

Who's this "Irwin" guy by the way? I've heard his name mentioned before...

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You need to check out some Shanny boarding suspension videos to see what constitutes turning at the last second.

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Very similar hit.  Lapierre gets 5 games for this hit on Boyle.

 

Not the same. Lapierre's a rat. Byron is a midget rookie. Also, Boyle was hurt and Daniel's okay a day after. The league's iffy supplementary discipline includes the results of the hit y'know.

 

When a guy like Lapierre goes shoulder first into a hit, then yeah (and even here Boyle slipped up which made the hit look even worse). Byron gave him a crosscheck on the left shoulder, and from what I can tell it wasn't that much harder than the average initial contact made during 99.99% of board battles, if it was any harder at all. I doubt Byron went into the play saying "Man this is an important game I need to hit him like a freight train."

 

It's unfortunate the result and I'm glad DSedin is okay, but the hit wasn't that bad and certainly not as bad as Canucks fans are making it out to be. He's what, 5'7"? And apparently a goon punk *ss b*tch? Really?

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I guess I think turning your body to face the boards a second before contact constitutes turning at the last second... if Shanny ever felt differently then that's his view and that's fine; I'm just stating mine.

 

Clearly we both see what we think we see (coincidentally giving the benefit of the doubt to our team's player) because we're just repeating ourselves at this point. We could debate this until we're blue in the face but at the end of the day we're going to see it the same way no matter how many times we watch it in slow motion and re-argue our view, so we should probably spare one another the effort.

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Meanwhile many of us don't know how Canucks fans can say he doesn't turn last second haha. I don't think he was trying to draw a penalty, but I don't know how anyone can deny the turn at 0:19 in that full clip. That's not a "silly argument" to me, that's pointing out a huge factor in why an accident occurred.

 

Who's this "Irwin" guy by the way? I've heard his name mentioned before...

 

Thats not a turn, he's trying to slow himself down going into the boards. He's skating towards the puck so he is facing the boards and his back is turned to Byron.

 

The last few years the league has been constantly trying to emphasize player responsibilty on the attacking player . Whether its late hits, high hits or any other situation where a player can be injured they have asked for players to have more respect for its fellow players.  If Byron didnt think he didnt anything wrong, then why did he text Daniel apologizing ?  

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Thats not a turn, he's trying to slow himself down going into the boards. He's skating towards the puck so he is facing the boards and his back is turned to Byron.

 

The last few years the league has been constantly trying to emphasize player responsibilty on the attacking player . Whether its late hits, high hits or any other situation where a player can be injured they have asked for players to have more respect for its fellow players.  If Byron didnt think he didnt anything wrong, then why did he text Daniel apologizing ?  

 

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Because he is a class guy and wanted the sister to know he did not have any intent..... 

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Sooooo....

Midway through next year, we'll finally have a good picture of the Sven vs Jensen comparison from a few yrs ago.

From last yr there's Monahan - Horvat to be played out. as well as Porier-Shinkaruk... will have to revisit these in another 3 yrs.

This yr.. Flames with 4th overall... Canucks with the 6th overall pick..

Will be another great comparison for yrs to come.

Historical look...

Year - 4th pick - 6th pick

'13 - Jones - Monahan

'12 - G Reinhart - Lindholm

'11 - Larrson - Zibanejad

'10 - Johansen - Connolly

'09 - E. Kane - OEL

'08 - Pietrangelo - Filatov

'07 - Hickey - Gagner

'06 - Backstrom - Brassard

'05 - Pouliot - Brule

'04 - Ladd - Montoya

'03 - Zherdev - M Michalek

'02 - Pitkenen - Upshall

'01 - Weiss - M Koivu

'00 - Klesla - Hartnell

Leaving 11/12/13 out of it since the players are still developing...

of the 22 players picked from '00-'10...

I'll say 6 or 7 are busts/disappointments... (I don't count Zherdev as a bust.)

15 are solid to decent contributing pro assets to varying degrees..

So very crudely... 2 outta three times you will hit well with the 4/6 pick.

6/11 times clearly 4>6

3/11 times clearly 4<6

'09 and '03 could be a wash.. maybe even '00 (which i gave an edge to Hartnell)

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Thats not a turn, he's trying to slow himself down going into the boards. He's skating towards the puck so he is facing the boards and his back is turned to Byron.

 

Slowing himself down by turning, which is what put him in the vulnerable position... we're both watching the same thing over and over and seeing the same thing again and again. Let's just forget about it because we're never going to convince the other side they don't see what they see.

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Sooooo....

Midway through next year, we'll finally have a good picture of the Sven vs Jensen comparison from a few yrs ago.

From last yr there's Monahan - Horvat to be played out. as well as Porier-Shinkaruk... will have to revisit these in another 3 yrs.

 

 

Monahan vs Horvat won't be a discussion.  One's an NHL'er with a full season under his belt, and an exceeded franchise record of goals for forwards in the last 18 or so years.  The other just finished his jr. season.

 

Sven has also produced at the NHL level at a .5 ppg pace.

 

All of those picks were miles apart in terms of draft position, except Poirier and Shinkaruk. 

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Monahan vs Horvat won't be a discussion.  One's an NHL'er with a full season under his belt, and an exceeded franchise record of goals for forwards in the last 18 or so years.  The other just finished his jr. season.

 

Sven has also produced at the NHL level at a .5 ppg pace.

 

All of those picks were miles apart in terms of draft position, except Poirier and Shinkaruk. 

 

Monahan is definitely the higher ranked more promising prospect.. at the end of the day it likely may not be close... but you still won't know for sure till a few years down the road when their ceilings are hit.

 

Sven vs Jensen is still an extremely interesting one that can't be dismissed based on a 0.5 ppg pace... especially considering his play with the flames when he was up this season. 

Jensen had a pretty promising start to his NHL career this spring. Sven did not play in the NHL after Christmas.

 

It will come down to what they do as NHL regulars in 14/15 and beyond.

 

We've all read "Sven Baertschi - This Season And Future" thread and know the trails and tribulations of Sven's season this yr... his great finish to the AHL season... and Your thoughts of thinking Sven needs to stay another full yr in the A next yr to develop (altho that was before he started to look good again in the A)... 

 

Two different type of players...

One is a big sniper... the other more of a play maker.

Jensen has been progressing steadily since he's been drafted and will wait to see how he develops into the fall here.

Sven took a lateral developmental step (if not step back) in the NHL, before the organization realized the best place for him was the A where he's bounced back...

 

THIS will definitely be a good comparison to see how it ends up.

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As much as I hate the Canucks, and especially the Sedins, Daniel just doesn't seem like the type of player to out himself at risk to draw a penalty in a game they're already winning by a margin. It makes my hands hurt to write this but... He's smarter than that. As far as Byron goes, he's simply too tiny to be a dirty player. The whole incident was without ill intent.

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So which prospect in the draft are the fanbase in Vancouver most wanting to pick?  Is it Nick Ritchie?  Is it hoping one of the top 5 would drop down to them?  Do they think Nylander is the RW RH Swede to complement the Sedins?  What's the thoughts on the draft in Vancouver?

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So which prospect in the draft are the fanbase in Vancouver most wanting to pick? Is it Nick Ritchie? Is it hoping one of the top 5 would drop down to them? Do they think Nylander is the RW RH Swede to complement the Sedins? What's the thoughts on the draft in Vancouver?

I don't know enough about it...

Basically the universal consensus is the top 5 is the top 5.. so i guess seeing one of those guys drop would be ideal at this point.

Gotta trust whoever they pick is the BPA based on their criteria.. they'll know more than any fan on a message board.

I hope they draft purely based on skill, talent and BPA... and just not weigh in things like nationality over BPA...

The only 2 highlight videos i've seen so far are Ritchie and Ehlers.

Ehlers doesn't appeal to me in the 6th spot...

Ritchie is huge and uses the longest stick you can... so his shot is just insane and so is his reach. Hard to gauge how dynamic of a player he is tho.

But then you look at the historical 6th picks and you realize, you probably aren't going to get a superstar outta the box... so Ritchie may just be what we need.

It's winger heavy in the top 10... which is why they don't have this draft labelled as a deep draft... its the position of least impact on a hockey team. But the Canucks definitely need help in every position.

What are you thinking Peeps...?

Safe to assume that if a Tier 1 player (Sam's/Ekblad) fall Cal scoops him up?

Which of Draisaitl/MDC do you prefer?

Or are you thinking outside the top 5 players is a possibility?

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I don't know enough about it...

Basically the universal consensus is the top 5 is the top 5.. so i guess seeing one of those guys drop would be ideal at this point.

Gotta trust whoever they pick is the BPA based on their criteria.. they'll know more than any fan on a message board.

I hope they draft purely based on skill, talent and BPA... and just not weigh in things like nationality over BPA...

The only 2 highlight videos i've seen so far are Ritchie and Ehlers.

Ehlers doesn't appeal to me in the 6th spot...

Ritchie is huge and uses the longest stick you can... so his shot is just insane and so is his reach. Hard to gauge how dynamic of a player he is tho.

But then you look at the historical 6th picks and you realize, you probably aren't going to get a superstar outta the box... so Ritchie may just be what we need.

It's winger heavy in the top 10... which is why they don't have this draft labelled as a deep draft... its the position of least impact on a hockey team. But the Canucks definitely need help in every position.

What are you thinking Peeps...?

Safe to assume that if a Tier 1 player (Sam's/Ekblad) fall Cal scoops him up?

Which of Draisaitl/MDC do you prefer?

Or are you thinking outside the top 5 players is a possibility?

 

I guess when you pick 6th and one of the top 5 drops, then you take him.  Pretty straight forward logic there.  Just not sure if there was a preference of who Canuck fans want that to be.  And at 6th, if the top 5 are gone, then you're picking the best of the rest.  In that case, there are at least 2 Euro kids and 5 NA kids who can find themselves picked in that 6th spot.

 

It's also difficult to gauge what the Canucks will do given their GM situation.  The new guy may go a totally different direction from what the idea has been the past few seasons.

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As long as the player is skilled and fast. skilled and fast.

 

My attribute list:

Skilled, Fast, IQ, Size

 

Get a player that is: top tier skill, 75th percentile or above in speed and IQ, and avg or above avg size...

 

Find THAT player, and call it a day.

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As long as the player is skilled and fast. skilled and fast.

 

My attribute list:

Skilled, Fast, IQ, Size

 

Get a player that is: top tier skill, 75th percentile or above in speed and IQ, and avg or above avg size...

 

Find THAT player, and call it a day.

Lets hope the Nucks also follow your limited attribute list and forgets all about character as well. That would bode well for the rest of the conference for generations.

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Lets hope the Nucks also follow your limited attribute list and forgets all about character as well. That would bode well for the rest of the conference for generations.

Why? is there actually a player with that attribute set that also happens to be a complete cancer in the top 10 prospect group this yr?

Or you just typing for the sake of typing again...

I love how i give a quick "limited" run down of a couple attributes i would like to see...

and you turn it into an infinite list of attributes I don't want to see.

Me saying i would like a player with skill/speed/IQ/size, to you equals "therefore he doesn't want a player to have ANY character or work ethic, or to be adventurous, energetic, Joyful, seeks improvement,alert, enterprising,Ambitious, enthusiastic, leadership, self-confident,aspiring, entrepreneurial, Loyal, self-giving, faith in life, in others, mature, selfless, flexible, modest, self-reliant, Calm, focused, Motivated, Sense of Humor, Candid, forgiving, objective, Sensitive, Caring, friendly, observant, serious, Charitable, generous, open-minded, sincere, Cheerful, Gentle, Optimistic, Spiritual, organized, stamina, Considerate, graceful, Patient, strong, constructive, Gracious, Peaceful, stress-free, relaxed, cooperative, grateful, perseveres, sympathetic, courageous, hard-working, Persistent, systematic, Courteous, Helpful, personable, takes others point of view, Creative, high goals polite, mannered, Tenacious, decisive, honest, practical, Thoughtful, deliberative, Hopeful, punctual, tolerant, Delightful, humble, realistic, tough, Determined, Humility, trusting, Devoted, imaginative, positive, trustworthy, Diligent, initiates(has initiative), reliable, unpretentious, disciplined, innovative, resourceful, unselfish, does what is necessary, right, Insightful, respectful, well-behaved, dynamic, responsible, Wise, interested, etc"

Great job DD. You are awesome.

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Why? is there actually a player with that attribute set that also happens to be a complete cancer in the top 10 prospect group this yr?

Or you just typing for the sake of typing again...

I love how i give a quick "limited" run down of a couple attributes i would like to see...

and you turn it into an infinite list of attributes I don't want to see.

Me saying i would like a player with skill/speed/IQ/size, to you equals "therefore he doesn't want a player to have ANY character or work ethic, or to be adventurous, energetic, Joyful, seeks improvement,alert, enterprising,Ambitious, enthusiastic, leadership, self-confident,aspiring, entrepreneurial, Loyal, self-giving, faith in life, in others, mature, selfless, flexible, modest, self-reliant, Calm, focused, Motivated, Sense of Humor, Candid, forgiving, objective, Sensitive, Caring, friendly, observant, serious, Charitable, generous, open-minded, sincere, Cheerful, Gentle, Optimistic, Spiritual, organized, stamina, Considerate, graceful, Patient, strong, constructive, Gracious, Peaceful, stress-free, relaxed, cooperative, grateful, perseveres, sympathetic, courageous, hard-working, Persistent, systematic, Courteous, Helpful, personable, takes others point of view, Creative, high goals polite, mannered, Tenacious, decisive, honest, practical, Thoughtful, deliberative, Hopeful, punctual, tolerant, Delightful, humble, realistic, tough, Determined, Humility, trusting, Devoted, imaginative, positive, trustworthy, Diligent, initiates(has initiative), reliable, unpretentious, disciplined, innovative, resourceful, unselfish, does what is necessary, right, Insightful, respectful, well-behaved, dynamic, responsible, Wise, interested, etc"

Great job DD. You are awesome.

 

 

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Why? is there actually a player with that attribute set that also happens to be a complete cancer in the top 10 prospect group this yr?

Or you just typing for the sake of typing again...

I love how i give a quick "limited" run down of a couple attributes i would like to see...

and you turn it into an infinite list of attributes I don't want to see.

Me saying i would like a player with skill/speed/IQ/size, to you equals "therefore he doesn't want a player to have ANY character or work ethic, or to be adventurous, energetic, Joyful, seeks improvement,alert, enterprising,Ambitious, enthusiastic, leadership, self-confident,aspiring, entrepreneurial, Loyal, self-giving, faith in life, in others, mature, selfless, flexible, modest, self-reliant, Calm, focused, Motivated, Sense of Humor, Candid, forgiving, objective, Sensitive, Caring, friendly, observant, serious, Charitable, generous, open-minded, sincere, Cheerful, Gentle, Optimistic, Spiritual, organized, stamina, Considerate, graceful, Patient, strong, constructive, Gracious, Peaceful, stress-free, relaxed, cooperative, grateful, perseveres, sympathetic, courageous, hard-working, Persistent, systematic, Courteous, Helpful, personable, takes others point of view, Creative, high goals polite, mannered, Tenacious, decisive, honest, practical, Thoughtful, deliberative, Hopeful, punctual, tolerant, Delightful, humble, realistic, tough, Determined, Humility, trusting, Devoted, imaginative, positive, trustworthy, Diligent, initiates(has initiative), reliable, unpretentious, disciplined, innovative, resourceful, unselfish, does what is necessary, right, Insightful, respectful, well-behaved, dynamic, responsible, Wise, interested, etc"

Great job DD. You are awesome.

I just pointed out how shallow your parameters are by leaving out one of the most important qualities to look for. The above garbage just proves my point and I say again I certainly hope that the Nucks have similar thoughts when they make their picks.

 

Actually there is one comment in this whole run-on conglomerate of nonsense sentences that I agree with, that is the use of the word limited to describe your original thoughts:

I love how i give a quick "limited" run down of a couple attributes i would like to see...

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I just pointed out how shallow your parameters are by leaving out one of the most important qualities to look for. The above garbage just proves my point and I say again I certainly hope that the Nucks have similar thoughts when they make their picks.

 

Actually there is one comment in this whole run-on conglomerate of nonsense sentences that I agree with, that is the use of the word limited to describe your original thoughts:

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Lol, we had a similar discussion earlier in the year DL when you were adamant that your team was just in a bit of a slump and insisting they would turn things around come Olympic break. How did that prediction work out for you now you have some hindsight???

 

You tried the same thing "pulling my avatar from my sig" back then and it on showed you had no comeback then so how is this any different now?

 

Please bring on some more attempted  insults because that appears to be all you have to go with your shallow drafting parameters.

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Lol, we had a similar discussion earlier in the year DL when you were adamant that your team was just in a bit of a slump and insisting they would turn things around come Olympic break. How did that prediction work out for you now you have some hindsight???

You tried the same thing "pulling my avatar from my sig" back then and it on showed you had no comeback then so how is this any different now?

Please bring on some more attempted insults because that appears to be all you have to go with your shallow drafting parameters.

As I predicted - they came back after the olympic break looked great - played perhaps their cleanest and best 60 minute defensive game of the year and then took it to Minny in the next game as well... AND THEN - Torts starts Lack in the Heritage Classic.

It was over. Room lost. Luongo traded. Who the puck saw that coming?

You may pat yourself on the back for being right about the Canucks missing the playoffs... but thats about it..

In hindsight... It was a weird yr... Henrik's ironman streak ended.. Luongo trade... Torts going after Hartley.. a former #1 PP ending at what was it 28th?... Edler -39??..

I have discussions... you like to delve into ridiculous hyperbole.

Your ridiculous angle on the attribute thing as a perfect example...

There's nothing to "comeback" on.. you and your logic is too ridiculous and a waste of time to respond to.

I get it... I'm a fan of the team you hate... so your distaste for the team bleeds into the posts and blossoms into the rambles we read here... I get it. I'm done addressing you. Get out of my thread.

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In hindsight... It was a weird yr... Henrik's ironman streak ended.. Luongo trade... Torts going after Hartley.. a former #1 PP ending at what was it 28th?... Edler -39??..

 

Don't forget Schneider getting traded for below fair value (aside from it being a bad idea for Gillis to trade him in the first place) or the Nucks having a number of other players on the roster underachieving this season...   :)

 

Get out of my thread.

 

"Your thread"?...   :lol:

 

In case you didn't notice, your a Nuck fan posting on a Flames board...   :lol:

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Don't forget Schneider getting traded for below fair value (aside from it being a bad idea for Gillis to trade him in the first place) or the Nucks having a number of other players on the roster underachieving this season...   :)

 

 

"Your thread"?...   :lol:

 

In case you didn't notice, your a Nuck fan posting on a Flames board...   :lol:

Who says i'm not a flames fan as well.

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