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Discussion & Debate Thread: Flames and Canucks

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21 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

So we need to talk about Elias Petterson.  

 

This kid is a superstar in the making, if not already.  Top 10 in league scoring (albeit early) but he looks and plays better than Nico Hischier and Nolan Patrick.  The high end talent here is nothing short of elite.  

 

We're talking about potentially 35G 50A rookie year or something similar to what Matt Barzal acheived last season.  At prime.  Man, hate to say but 50G is not out of the question and maybe 120-points.  May only be second to McDavid in talent and scoring.

 

On the bright side, I seriously thought the Canucks could be the worst team in the NHL this season and finish dead last.  They would be front runners for Jack Hughes. But with the help of Petterson, the Canucks draft party should be ruined.  I'm guessing they miss the playoffs but will be in the 9 to 11th rank or so.

 

I'm not sure what to make of him.  This early in the season we are seeing so many goals in a game.  If that trend continues, there may be several players in the 50g range.   To your point, he does look like the real deal.  

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22 hours ago, travel_dude said:

 

I'm not sure what to make of him.  This early in the season we are seeing so many goals in a game.  If that trend continues, there may be several players in the 50g range.   To your point, he does look like the real deal.  

But how long can Pettersson keep having a 40% goals to shots ratio?

Right now there is no book on him so early in the season tendancies don't exist. As time passes & film is watched the other teams will know what to watch for.

As for the high goal scores part of it is likely due to the 'tenders getting used to the stream lined chest protectors that give less protection. It's also unreal that TML holds down the top 4 in points, has won 4 of 5 & scored 25 while giving up 20. The next highest GF is the Caps @ 18.

 

It's way to early to call trends since there was a high turnover of players & teams are adjusting.

I also figure the exhibition games over seas are hurting some teams. We'll really see what that does when the Jets & Panthers play those 2 games that count in Finland. A big time change requires a while for the body clock to reset. Heck, even our 1 hour time change twice a year is said to increase accidents on both the road & in the workplace & that doesn't involve dang near a day cooped up in an airplane.

 

All in all this is starting off as a strange season.

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8 minutes ago, Flyerfan52 said:

But how long can Pettersson keep having a 40% goals to shots ratio?

Right now there is no book on him so early in the season tendancies don't exist. As time passes & film is watched the other teams will know what to watch for.

As for the high goal scores part of it is likely due to the 'tenders getting used to the stream lined chest protectors that give less protection. It's also unreal that TML holds down the top 4 in points, has won 4 of 5 & scored 25 while giving up 20. The next highest GF is the Caps @ 18.

 

It's way to early to call trends since there was a high turnover of players & teams are adjusting.

I also figure the exhibition games over seas are hurting some teams. We'll really see what that does when the Jets & Panthers play those 2 games that count in Finland. A big time change requires a while for the body clock to reset. Heck, even our 1 hour time change twice a year is said to increase accidents on both the road & in the workplace & that doesn't involve dang near a day cooped up in an airplane.

 

All in all this is starting off as a strange season.

 

Agreed.  No book at all on him.  Very slight build will hurt him when he faces team that know how to close on him.  A breath of hope for the hapless Nuck fans, but Boeser starting off slow is a sure sign that the start of the season is adjustment. 

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I know some people need it to be proven first, but count me in the Elias Peterson is in the real deal camp. Will he keep this up, unlikely, but he's a good one and a star on the making no doubt in my mind. Canucks did well with that pick  I hate saying this but the datsuyk comparison that was thrown out during the broadcast looks pretty accurate to me. 

 

At 18 he led the Swedish elite league on scoring, the entire league. What he's doing right now shouldn't be a much a surprise as it is. 

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Ouch!  The way he couldn't keep balance when he tried to get back to his skates.  Loss coordination for a few seconds.  Oozy.  

 

Matheson should be suspended.  This is worse than the Wilson hit on Sundqvist.  This was from behind into the glass and then a WWE body slam to the ice. 

 

At best a mild concussion.

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The initial hit really didn't look too bad, but the follow up with the body slam was well over the line and had clear intent to injure.

The worst part is, even Panther fans are hoping he's suspended for two reasons: 1) He deserves it, and 2) Most figure with Matheson out of the lineup, their Defence actually gets better (because apparently he gets deked out of his pants like 2-4 times a game).

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The extra push is most definetly not necessary and I agree shows a clear intent to injury. No need for stuff like that. Suspension should be coming for sure. 

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17 hours ago, cross16 said:

I know some people need it to be proven first, but count me in the Elias Peterson is in the real deal camp. Will he keep this up, unlikely, but he's a good one and a star on the making no doubt in my mind. Canucks did well with that pick  I hate saying this but the datsuyk comparison that was thrown out during the broadcast looks pretty accurate to me. 

 

At 18 he led the Swedish elite league on scoring, the entire league. What he's doing right now shouldn't be a much a surprise as it is. 

If memory serves, Tomas Hertl scored 4 goals in his first NHL game. He looked unbeatable especially after the flashy 4th goal came from between his legs. That year he ended the season with 15 goals. The next year he had 13. Pettersson has speed and talent, but count me in the prove it first column. We need a body of work before making any conclusions.

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I have seen that type hit and throw down plenty of times in the NHL and most of the times it doesn't even result in a penalty let alone a suspension. I would say he should get a fine at most. 

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11 hours ago, The_People1 said:

 

 

Ouch!  The way he couldn't keep balance when he tried to get back to his skates.  Loss coordination for a few seconds.  Oozy.  

 

Matheson should be suspended.  This is worse than the Wilson hit on Sundqvist.  This was from behind into the glass and then a WWE body slam to the ice. 

 

At best a mild concussion.

I even wore my glasses to try and see what you did. This is not boarding because Matheson picked up almost no speed. The video shows that he was gliding before making a stride at the red line. It is hardly even a hit from behind given that Pettersson's body hits the boards on his side. There is no way that this is a concussion. At best, this is average acting, and Pettersson should get the penalty. The only proviso I would add is that this camera angle does not show what Matheson did with his glove. IF he punched him or pulled his head, then it is a different matter. 

 

You gotta be careful making allegations like this. One night you are all self-righteous about a player convicted on domestic abuse getting a reduced sentence, the next day you are sheepishly shying away when the "victim" acknowledges that no such abuse occurred.

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3 minutes ago, JTech780 said:

I have seen that type hit and throw down plenty of times in the NHL and most of the times it doesn't even result in a penalty let alone a suspension. I would say he should get a fine at most. 

Shouldn't Pettersson get a penalty for acting? At best, he had the wind knocked out of him. The way he was acting, you would think that Burrows Pettersson was clobbered with a baseball bat.

 

Perhaps Peeps was being sarcastic.

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2 minutes ago, Cowtownguy said:

Shouldn't Pettersson get a penalty for acting? At best, he had the wind knocked out of him. The way he was acting, you would think that Burrows Pettersson was clobbered with a baseball bat.

 

Perhaps Peeps was being sarcastic.

 

I don't think he was acting, his head legit bounced off the ice, I just think part of the problem here is that Pettersson wieghs 140 pounds with his gear on. 

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35 minutes ago, Cowtownguy said:

If memory serves, Tomas Hertl scored 4 goals in his first NHL game. He looked unbeatable especially after the flashy 4th goal came from between his legs. That year he ended the season with 15 goals. The next year he had 13. Pettersson has speed and talent, but count me in the prove it first column. We need a body of work before making any conclusions.

 

Tomas hertl didn't lead the SEL in scoring as a teenager, which is pretty rare. 

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the pin into the boards is fine. I wouldn't even call it a hit, he pinned him. However there was no need to take him to the ground and especially no need to drive him into the ground with extra force. That's the part thst should be suspended, no reason to do that

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1 hour ago, Cowtownguy said:

If memory serves, Tomas Hertl scored 4 goals in his first NHL game. He looked unbeatable especially after the flashy 4th goal came from between his legs. That year he ended the season with 15 goals. The next year he had 13. Pettersson has speed and talent, but count me in the prove it first column. We need a body of work before making any conclusions.

 

Ahh... the best part about that was Joe Thornton. Per:  https://www.sbnation.com/lookit/2013/10/10/4824950/joe-thornton-tomas-hertl-quote-four-goals

 

Quote

After Tomas Hertl scored his goal of the year with a between-the-legs shot, some stuffed-shirt hockey idiots got all up in arms about how disrespectful the whole thing was. Fear the Fin tipped us off to this incredible quote by Joe Thornton, as reported by The Province:
 

Hearing a question to Marleau about Hertl and whether he was showboating, Thornton said:
"Shut up, have you ever played the game?"

When the press turned his way, he then added:
"I'd have my Hard Fork out if I scored four goals. I'd have my Hard Fork out, stroking it."

 

Joe Thornton: a man of simple pleasures. And unbelievable indecency.

 

Love. 

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41 minutes ago, cross16 said:

the pin into the boards is fine. I wouldn't even call it a hit, he pinned him. However there was no need to take him to the ground and especially no need to drive him into the ground with extra force. That's the part thst should be suspended, no reason to do that

I think Tmac created a thread about this. I agree with you that part was overdone, but that kind of thing happens all of the time. WWE wrestling at best, not MMA.

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Not to say that I was fully right about, “watch out” for the Canucks but they’re doing better than anyone thought they would. I got some flack for thinking/saying that. But boy, they’ve got a few good pieces. 

 

I didn't think Hutton was that far off as he had a down year last year but showed a lot of promise in his first year. He’s young so it could go either way, 

 

theyre kind of like Ike is in a way. We have better offensive D, but really, are they that much better? Probably. In a few years it could be a wash already. 

 

Petterson =/> Gaudreau

Boesser=Monahan

Horvat=Tkachuk ? 

 

 

Theyve closed on their core top three players forwards. How they fill the rest is where we will see the difference. 

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They started hot last year too and wound up in a lottery pick position. 

 

peterson helps and he's a stud but I still think they'll wind up in the bottom half once it's all said and done. I don't think what they are doing now is sustainable. 

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20 hours ago, robrob74 said:

Not to say that I was fully right about, “watch out” for the Canucks but they’re doing better than anyone thought they would. I got some flack for thinking/saying that. But boy, they’ve got a few good pieces. 

 

I didn't think Hutton was that far off as he had a down year last year but showed a lot of promise in his first year. He’s young so it could go either way, 

 

theyre kind of like Ike is in a way. We have better offensive D, but really, are they that much better? Probably. In a few years it could be a wash already. 

 

Petterson =/> Gaudreau

Boesser=Monahan

Horvat=Tkachuk ? 

 

 

Theyve closed on their core top three players forwards. How they fill the rest is where we will see the difference. 

 

Petterson is no doubt a special talent.  He's a sniper, so you really can;t compare to Gaudreau.  

He is, like the team, riding a hot streak.

Teams haven't keyed in on him yet.

 

As far as the Nucks go, they will fall back to earth the same way MTL will.  Not sustainable for the season.

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On 2018-11-04 at 9:29 AM, travel_dude said:

 

Petterson is no doubt a special talent.  He's a sniper, so you really can;t compare to Gaudreau.  

He is, like the team, riding a hot streak.

Teams haven't keyed in on him yet.

 

As far as the Nucks go, they will fall back to earth the same way MTL will.  Not sustainable for the season.

 

I think they’ll fall as well. But I think you can compare him because of his ability to make his line mates better. I think you’re selling him short because a hot streak is five games or so. He has been a pretty good player every game. Sure he scores a lot, but there is more to his game than that. 

 

although, as the year goes on, the teams will tighten up and key in on him. How he does then. 

 

If it were us, we would be clamouring just as much about him if he were in the Flames line up.

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49 minutes ago, robrob74 said:

 

I think they’ll fall as well. But I think you can compare him because of his ability to make his line mates better. I think you’re selling him short because a hot streak is five games or so. He has been a pretty good player every game. Sure he scores a lot, but there is more to his game than that. 

 

although, as the year goes on, the teams will tighten up and key in on him. How he does then. 

 

If it were us, we would be clamouring just as much about him if he were in the Flames line up.

 

If he plays with Boesser, then the line will be a goodun.

The team has been on a hot streak this season.

Couple of win streaks.

Don;t really expect Markstrom to continue winning at that rate.

 

Not selling anyone short, just saying that he will see a lot of attention as teams key in on him.

Can he use his speed/shiftyness to avoid being shut down?  So far yes.

I am skeptical until I see how players manage playing a long season.

There will be ups and downs.

 

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2 hours ago, travel_dude said:

 

If he plays with Boesser, then the line will be a goodun.

The team has been on a hot streak this season.

Couple of win streaks.

Don;t really expect Markstrom to continue winning at that rate.

 

Not selling anyone short, just saying that he will see a lot of attention as teams key in on him.

Can he use his speed/shiftyness to avoid being shut down?  So far yes.

I am skeptical until I see how players manage playing a long season.

There will be ups and downs.

 

 

Yeah, but doing what he is doing as a 19 year old is big. I don’t expect 100 points but I do believe he’ll be rookie of the year. 

 

Where he is at in his career it is pretty good.

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I actually think Peterson will be better than Gaudreau. May take a season or 2 but I really think he'll get there. He's Gaudreau at center with a better shot, he'll be fun to watch.

 

I'm not as high on Horvat or Boeser though, I think they've gotten a bit overrated lately but at the same time Peterson being a center gives them quite the piece so it probably balances out the big 3 even though I think Monahan and Tkachuk > Horvat and Boeser.

 

Still comes down to their blueline though. They need help there and IMO a lot of it.

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