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Discussion & Debate Thread: Flames and Canucks

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Honest opinions, do you think the Canucks will hold onto the NW division over the Avs?
*Hopefully* We'll finally score some goals and go on a streak and take it from you.

*Realistically* Yes. I hate you Canuckles, but you're better then the Avs.

  

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Honest opinions, do you think the Canucks will hold onto the NW division over the Avs?
*Hopefully* We'll finally score some goals and go on a streak and take it from you.

*Realistically* Yes. I hate you Canuckles, but you're better then the Avs.

  

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[quote name='The_Don wrote:


littlereddevil']Flames need to keep this up, continue to pile up the wins, start climbing in the standings. Nashville, you're next!

coolclipswb003753.gif

I would love to see the Flames climb into the 6th seed.devil.gif

Yeah, me too. Last time I checked, we were winning the series so far. tongue.gif

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How will Luongo play less games? Who's the back-up now?

I do expect Iginla to improve considering he lobbied for Joker and Tangs back, so he better work up a god damn hurricane every time he plays.

I also do seem Luongo improving, but I don't see him having a better year then some of the Eliter Goaltenders. Top 10 SVP, Top 10 GAA is realistic.

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The way Glencross gets most of his points is by being aggressive defensively and that leads to potential breaks. Anybody remember him just poking the puck away from Kovalchuk and scoring on that breakaway?

Glencross is our replacement for Lombardi in the end. Hes just as fast and is not as stone-handed under pressure.

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DvD : I really dont wee how there is any question wether you are a Canuck or Flames fan. Calgary Defence>>>>>Vancouver Defence.

Kipper vs. Luongo: Both solid goaltenders, hard to say which is better... Both have flourished with great defences, and skidded with poor ones.

Raymond vs Boyd: I cant make a decision until Boyd is handed a better playing role... but as of right now, i have to say Raymond.... in the future, Boyd

6vs6: Calgary > Vancouver

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yeah the numbers say Bourque doesn't deserve to be in the conversation for Selke. i win.

Its irrelevant either way... He was injured for almost 1/3 of the season... He may have won it, He may have ended where he is now.

I dont see the point in "what if" conversations. Bourque didnt make it, Kesler didnt win it

therefore ...PK- Bourque=Kesler

Otherwise Bourque >Kesler :P

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Lets wait and see what happens this season before we start pro-rating Bourque against any established talents in the NHL

Ya, that was kind of a huourous statement... hence the :P and the complete reversal of my original point

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This debate about the defense is getting a little out of hand.

Calgary may have the star power, as it were, but the simple fact remains that, all things being equal, the Canucks top 6 put up considerably better numbers than the Flames top 6.

Flames top 6 of Bouwmeester, Phaneuf, Regehr, Giordano, Moss and Pardy combined for 175 points last season.

Canucks top 6 of Bieksa, Edler, Erhoff, Schnieder, Mitchell and Salo put up 202 points last season.

The Canucks have 4, possibly 5, players on defense that could put up 40 points.

The Flames have only 3.

Stats don't tell the whole story, but they do tell a lot.

Its clealy in favor of the Canucks on this issue.

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Why can't he play for the Moose? does the CHL hold his rights or something? Is he too young?

im not entirely sure but i believe that players with their rights held in the CHL cannot play in the AHL until they are 20 years of age or their team is out of the playoffs (returning to the CHL the next year).

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Both, Lukowich has a bigger contract and Rome played much better during the pre-season.

With Hodgson, Gillis has said that footspeet, conditioning and strength were just not good enough and that it would be unfair to the other players to keep him when its been said all pre-season that the best players will play regardless of age or salary. Hodgson will have a personal skating coach with him all year in brampton and Dave Gagne will be spending large portions of time with him.

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I think flames fans have always been chirping about how great Kipper is but his stats dont reflect is becuase of the teams piss poor defence. So next season when we have argueable the most stacked D in the league and a defensive oriented coach, it's time for kipper to prove us all right.

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I agree.

I said this before he was here, when they signed him, and continue to say it. Jbow is overrated by most people in hockey and hockey fans. I've never considered Jbow at op 10 NHL dman, I think he sits in the 15-20 range.

Too many people automatcially assume that just becuase your a good player on a bad team you'll suddenly be so much better on a good team. Thats not true and in fact sometimes can be the opposite. I think the fact that jbow was everything for that team actually helped, not hurt, his overal play.

Solid, but very unspectacular dman. No way is he in the top 15 IMO.

Not top 15? We'll lets see. Here goes my generic top 15

1.Pronger

2.Lidstrom

3.Keith

4.doughty

5.Green

6.Boyle

7.Weber

8.Chara

9.Gonchar

11.Striet

12.Seabrook

13.Suter

14.Kaberle

15.Regher,Phauneuf,Kronwall,Staal (?)

I think looking at this list  and you pretend last year never happened, myself and probably most people would put Bow somwhere in the 10-15 range. No chance is he 15-25. However I think next year will be a make or break season, we saw moments of greatness but it needs to be there every game. Also hopefulyl Tanguay can give him passes and help his goal total return to around 10-15.

  

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The logic is that he'll get about 2 more prime top six type minutes/game, with better quality line mates than he played with in Detroit.... and noooo, he didn't play with Datsuyk, Zetterberg... try Filpulla, Cleary etc... but Cleary did get an Olympic invite.

He got top 6 minutes last season and in the playoffs as well, he also spent quite a bit of time on the Detroit PP.

it was time for Ohlund to move on, and he's cashed in.. The canucks need someone a lil younger, quicker and with equal or better offensive instincts.

It's day 2 (TWO) of free agency and you're already giving an F. I guess it's fair that i can give the Flames an F on their failure to to replace their top 6 losses. No Cammi, no Bert, and no Boyd... hey... i know it's day 2 but he still hasn't been re-signed. No offensive depth for the Flames what so ever...

Actually the Flames look like the 2007 Canucks... all defense... piss poor O.

I am really starting to wonder why Canucks fans are having such a tough time grasping the idea that all of the Flames offense needs to be replaced. The idea of this season is to bring the GA down, not to maintain a top 5 GF(which the Flames had until the entire second line dropped).

Iginla, Langkow, Jokinen, and Bourque are all legitimate top 6 forwards. Guys like Moss and Glencross will probably be getting some top 6 time this season, they both put up pretty much identical numbers to Samuelsson, who apparently will be making Vancouver's top 6 better.

If Calgary's offense is "piss poor" things certainly aren't looking up for Vancouver either.

Well then i guess therefore a full season of Luongo, Salo, Johnson, Demitra and Rypien as our Depth will help further solidify our division title .... everyone is healthy... our record with Salo in the lineup and on the PP was elite level.... drove us to the division. :ph34r:

As long as we are talking hypotheticals and neither team is dealing with injuries, Calgary's second line doesn't go down at the same time and they maintain the division lead. :rolleyes:

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he was the 7th ranked forward on the team in ice time during the regular season.

He was 6th in the post season because Datsuyk had dropped to 7th with injuries...

I meant he spent time in a top 6 role, which he did. Injuries to Holmstrom + Hossa had him playing top 6 at times.

a lead they never would of had if Luongo didn't go down....

You know this how? Oh right hypotheticals.

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He was 7th for forwards in detroit. Not top 6. 7th for PP time as well.

As I have already said in this thread, due to injuries he spent some time in a top 6 role, which is what I meant with that post.

If you are happy with 4 top 6 forwards than all the power to you. Samuelsson makes the Canucks depth better, not our top 6 necessarily. He is a guy that can play in the top 6, but also on the third line if someone else steps up.

It's not about being happy with it, it's about every Canucks fan spouting off about how terrible Calgary's top 6 is when I wouldn't say the Canucks is really any better off. For either team to be successful offensively they will be relying on guys to continue having career high seasons.

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[quote name='Hockey_Canada1 wrote:


FANATIC18']Bouwmeester>Mitchell

Regehr>Edler

Phaneuf>Ehrhoff

Sarich=Bieksa

GiordanoPardy>O'Brien

Stralman>Lukowich

Your comparisons are way off.

why wouldn't you compare shut-downn vs. shut-down, ect...?

Bouwmeester vs. Edler

Phanuef vs. Bieksa

Regeher vs. Mitchell

Sarich vs. Ehrhoff

Giordanno vs. Schneider

Pardy vs. O'Brien

Stralman vs. Lukowich

in which case...

Bouwmeester >/= Edler

Phanuef > Bieksa

Regeher > Mitchell

Sarich < Ehrhoff

Giordanno < Schneider

Pardy < O'Brien

Stralman < Lukowich

I'll just touch on the bolded comparisons for now, Edler as of right now is no where near Bouwmeester's level. 

Sarich and Ehrhoff both make for good #4 guys, one is a shutdown defender, the other a puck mover. It's like comparing apples and oranges, I would say this one is more of a wash, I like Ehrhoff's contract a bit better though.

I was told in the Ehrhoff trade thread that a younger, faster, cheaper defenseman > older guy, so wouldn't that apply to Gio and Schneider as well, or just for certain defensemen leaving and coming to the Nucks?

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Lol, this overall depth argument is so terrible, it's just grasping at straws really. When considering Calgary's top 4 > Vancouver's top 4, there is really no argument to be made, it is debatable which bottom pairing is better and it depends a lot on how healthy Schneider can stay.

Put each team's defensemen on a piece of paper and give it to a GM and ask them to make a choice of which he wants on his team, guess who they will all choose?

As for the Bieksa/Bouwmeester debate, why are people just looking at point totals and + / - by that logic Mike Green is by far the best defenseman in the NHL today.

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When you put it into perspective, Bouwmeester isn't the highest paid D-man in the league.

However Luongo is the highest paid goalie, goalies and defenseman tend to make completely different salaries so it really isn't a good comparison.

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[quote name='Dusty_Foot_Philosopher wrote:


Hiphopopotamus']However Luongo is the highest paid goalie,

Once again, you're wrong.

Lol, no I am not. Someone obviously already showed you that though.

The only person who is wrong here on a fairly consistent basis is you. Luongo is now and will realistically for the next few seasons be the highest paid goalie in the NHL while having accomplished absolutely nothing.

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Except our defences our pretty much even, with Vancouver's depth pushing them a little ahead.

You forget that your always overrated defence was terrible last year, lost Aucoin and Vandermeer, and improved a little by signing Bouwmeester. The Canucks on the other handsubtracted the slow and aging Ohlund from their top-10 defence last year, and added Ehrhoff, Schneider and Lukowich, two of which have Cup-winning experience compared to Jay who has never even be able to get Florida into the playoffs.

It's gonna be another slaughter come October 1.

Wow, you still really don't get it do you?

The fact that you think GA is a direct result of the skill set of your blueliners is just sad. Going by this absolutely terrible logic there were 19 better defensive cores than Detroit last year, and 17 better than what Anaheim was putting out there every night. Whereas a team like Minnesota had the second best defensemen right?

As for Bouwmeester not taking the Panthers to the playoffs, Luongo never did either so I guess he can't be any worse than him. 

You're trolling attempts continue to be weak at best.

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