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Discussion & Debate Thread: Flames and Canucks

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Early Early Trends...

What are you seeing that you love, that you don't like, that concerns you?

Canucks... 
Hamhius - better than advertised.. soooo smooth. 
Luongo definitely the sharpest first 2 games he had here... fluke goal away from a shutout... but
The D looks good - very mobile, and gets to a lot of pucks.
The most physical the team has been in few yrs.  Hamhius, Ballard, Torres, Alberts are banging hard.
Top line is the top line...
Pk looks a lot better - still trying to figure out if its Luongo or personnel...

The not so good yet... 
Scoring. surprisingly.  confident it will come.  too many chances and great 'almosts'...
The Kesler line isn't scoring... but they are creating a lot of chances, so it will come.
The 3rd line is almost concerning, but even they are hitting, holding their own in the defensive zone... and are hitting... as is the 4th line in their few minutes of ice.

Flames...
i have an opinion... but i only closely watched the season opener.. and read about the games here and other sources online.. so.. well, you know...
I'll wait to hear from those that actually closely watched both games.

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Early Early Trends...

What are you seeing that you love, that you don't like, that concerns you?

Canucks... 
Hamhius - better than advertised.. soooo smooth. 
Luongo definitely the sharpest first 2 games he had here... fluke goal away from a shutout... but
The D looks good - very mobile, and gets to a lot of pucks.
The most physical the team has been in few yrs.  Hamhius, Ballard, Torres, Alberts are banging hard.
Top line is the top line...
Pk looks a lot better - still trying to figure out if its Luongo or personnel...

The not so good yet... 
Scoring. surprisingly.  confident it will come.  too many chances and great 'almosts'...
The Kesler line isn't scoring... but they are creating a lot of chances, so it will come.
The 3rd line is almost concerning, but even they are hitting, holding their own in the defensive zone... and are hitting... as is the 4th line in their few minutes of ice.

Flames...
i have an opinion... but i only closely watched the season opener.. and read about the games here and other sources online.. so.. well, you know...
I'll wait to hear from those that actually closely watched both games.
I also think a positive has been the resurgence of Bieksa. It seem that since he was named an alternative captain, he's gotten his and the teams confidence back.

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On Luo:

My comment is that he is a great goalie in games that don't matter. His issue is between the ears when the pressure starts. I fully expect him to shine in the regular season, heck I tried hard to get him in my pool.

We have to wait till April to see how Luo measures up, I fully expect him to do well all year long. But it is the off-season where we will see if he is the new Nabakov.

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Two games is not a trend.  And for the Nucks, both were at home.

definitely agree - to a certain degree.

But i wasn't  really talking about actual trends per say, but more so if you can see the formation of trends based on the 2 games. 

Obviously zero absolute conclusions can be made on observations based on 2 games, but we can discuss that we like or don't like so far...

i.e. Kipper. top line. Bouwmeester. consistency. Injuries. Brodie. The story thats been Backlund vs Morrison when it shouldn't be.

Don't forget Hansen.... 9 hits in 2 games!
i was referring to the new additions..
Hansen has definitely been very good and earned himself a 2nd line role last game...

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On Luo:

My comment is that he is a great goalie in games that don't matter. His issue is between the ears when the pressure starts. I fully expect him to shine in the regular season, heck I tried hard to get him in my pool.

We have to wait till April to see how Luo measures up, I fully expect him to do well all year long. But it is the off-season where we will see if he is the new Nabakov.

You are not entirely wrong. Probably even more right than wrong.

He has had issues coming up big games recently, but he has probably had near as many great performances in big games as well. I start with the 2007 playoffs and end with the Gold medal game (no need to go back to that argument, I already know you disagree, but allowing just 2 goals against a team that talented is pretty good). So it's not so bad that he has never come up big, it's that he hasn't done it for the Canucks in the playoffs in the last 2 years. We've seen it from him, and I think we can see it again.

But I don't think his regular season performance has no bearing on how he will be in the playoffs. By far his best playoff performance was in 2007. Compare his regular season stats from that season compared to last.

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On Luo:

My comment is that he is a great goalie in games that don't matter. His issue is between the ears when the pressure starts. I fully expect him to shine in the regular season, heck I tried hard to get him in my pool.

We have to wait till April to see how Luo measures up, I fully expect him to do well all year long. But it is the off-season where we will see if he is the new Nabakov.

Luongo hasn't really had a good start to the season since he's been here... so the micro-trend of his initial 2 games is different and refreshing.

But overall, you have a minor point.  altho a relatively shortsighted one that's mainly based off of 2 elimination games, ignoring all other great performances... i.e Series vs Stars, vs Ducks, gold medal, breakaway save (turning point) of the LA series, and clutch performance in divison clinching gms the last couple yrs, world championships. 
He's had many clutch performances on his resume.... but... 7uongo...  /dead horse:

Many Canuck fans do share you're opinion tho... 

EDIT: don whooped my %%! by like 15minutes on that one! 
(was on the phone)tongue.gif

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Here's the intriguing part of this season coming up....

How would the new additions help improve a mediocre 18th ranked PK from last yr?
We found out pretty intensely in Gm 1...

Malhotra - Ballard - Hamhius - Luongo. vs the PP that shredded them last playoffs.

8 for 9 so far thru a couple...
Will definitely be monitoring what was the Achille's Heel of the Canucks last yr in this thread...

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[quote name=DL44]Here's the intriguing part of this season coming up....

How would the new additions help improve a mediocre 18th ranked PK from last yr?
We found out pretty intensely in Gm 1...

Malhotra - Ballard - Hamhius - Luongo. vs the PP that shredded them last playoffs.

8 for 9 so far thru a couple...
Will definitely be monitoring what was the Achille's Heel of the Canucks last yr in this thread...

After two games we can

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After two games we can�infer that the Nucks have better PK, but absolutely no secondary scoring

(see how ridiculous making conclusions after two games is?)

��

Stop being a special ed case C_worthy.... it's about the process you're witnessing come to fruition..

Who the f.. is concluding anything?

I apologize your mind can not wrap itself about the concept of evaluating�on an ongoing�basis.

I look forward to not hearing your opinion till the trade deadline?.... unless you consider it too soon...

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[quote name='C_worthy wrote:


DL44']Here's the intriguing part of this season coming up....

How would the new additions help improve a mediocre 18th ranked PK from last yr?
We found out pretty intensely in Gm 1...

Malhotra - Ballard - Hamhius - Luongo. vs the PP that shredded them last playoffs.

8 for 9 so far thru a couple
...
Will definitely be monitoring what was the Achille's Heel of the Canucks last yr in this thread...

After two games we can�infer that the Nucks have better PK, but absolutely no secondary scoring

(see how ridiculous making conclusions after two games is?)

��Of course it is silly to make absoulte statements after 2 games. However, it was apparent that Gillis addressed the PK issue on the offseason, talked about how it needs to be better, and so far it has been. I see no reason to think the Canucks PK won't be better than last season, I expect it to crack the top 10 by the end of the year. I also expect our team goals to be down from last year as well, due to a decrease in secondary scoring as well as missing our top goal scorer for at least a month.

I don't expect us to be the #2 scoring team again, but I do see us improving on the #12 rank in goals against. I think an optimistic yet realistic guess for both would be 5th and 5th. I'd be very happy with that.

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[quote name='The_Don wrote:


C_worthy wrote:

DL44']Here's the intriguing part of this season coming up....

How would the new additions help improve a mediocre 18th ranked PK from last yr?
We found out pretty intensely in Gm 1...

Malhotra - Ballard - Hamhius - Luongo. vs the PP that shredded them last playoffs.

8 for 9 so far thru a couple
...
Will definitely be monitoring what was the Achille's Heel of the Canucks last yr in this thread...

After two games we can�infer that the Nucks have better PK, but absolutely no secondary scoring

(see how ridiculous making conclusions after two games is?)

��
Of course it is silly to make absoulte statements after 2 games. However, it was apparent that Gillis addressed the PK issue on the offseason, talked about how it needs to be better, and so far it has been. I see no reason to think the Canucks PK won't be better than last season, I expect it to crack the top 10 by the end of the year. I also expect our team goals to be down from last year as well, due to a decrease in secondary scoring as well as missing our top goal scorer for at least a month.

I don't expect us to be the #2 scoring team again, but I do see us improving on the #12 rank in goals against. I think an optimistic yet realistic guess for both would be 5th and 5th. I'd be very happy with that.

I think that's a great estimate. I highly doubt everyone has career years like last year, but a huge regression is unlikely. Imagine 5% reduction in points from most players, except for D. Sedin (who will be more productive as of no injury). Plus Hank has a target on his back now which might slow his pace a tiny bit.

PK will be a big factor in whether the GA goes down.

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So far, Luongo has been impressive to start the season. I don't think anyone can question his ability in the regular season, should put up solid numbers this season considering the blueline in front of him.

However, as always, the one big question is whether he can take that level of play straight into the playoffs. 2007 is notably a year where he played well in the postseason, however, like Flame111 said, his issue is consistency. Almost like a Jekyll and Hyde type of scenario.

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Well DL you were right, Canucks aren't good in those kind of games. They lose again tonight, that's good news!

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No joy in Bogusland tonight.

The winless 0-3 Anaheim Unmighty Ducks rally to defeat the pre-ordained 2011 Stanley Cup Championstongue.gif.

I know it's early in the season but the way the league parity is these days....All Games Are Must-Win!!!!!

Now about the Flames.......sigh.....time will tell if they can overcome this early season adversity and give you guys a run for the moneywink.gif.

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Crappy end to the game...  always sucks to lose..

But best performance so far by the top 3 lines.  Sedins were dominant.  
Raymond-Kesler-Hansen had chances galore again..
and the 3rd line had their best outing... Torres had a beast of a game while having to sit out 17 mins, Shaeffer and Malhotra were great as well. Manny with a couple of breakaways...
The D has been very effective so far and looks like they will easily be amongst the higher scoring corps...
PP clicked.
PK - looked as good as a 60% PK could look... burned on 2 5-on-3's...  first 5on3 was a result of a puck over glass, and the 2nd was a stick check-broken stick-slash..

But.... Ryan freakin Getzlaf showed why i think he's a top 5 player in the league...  Monster performance by that line... except Perry.  man he makes the Sedins look like they're skating like Scotty Neidermeyer.  He is to Getzlaf as Burrows is to Sedin, as Sykora/Kunitz is to Crosby, as Brown was to Lemieux.

Selanne's line has Blake on it who is the hockey's equivalent to a buzzkill, or kokblocker...
puck died when it touched his stick. but hey... they were hungray and got the goals in the 3rd they needed.

That team will go as far as Getzlaf will be able to take it.... 
they at least get some help with Lydman back on D.

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After two games we can�infer that the Nucks have better PK, but absolutely no secondary scoring

(see how ridiculous making conclusions after two games is?)

��

Stop being a special ed case C_worthy.... it's about the process you're witnessing come to fruition..

Who the f.. is concluding anything?

I apologize your mind can not wrap itself about the concept of evaluating�on an ongoing�basis.

I look forward to not hearing your opinion till the trade deadline?.... unless you consider it too soon...That was mature - someone disagrees with something you say and you have a hissy-fit and resort to personal insults?   Classy.

By the way, I once taught a special ed class and the students were an absolute joy to deal with - something I can't always say here.

  

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[quote name='C_worthy wrote:


DL44']After two games we can�infer that the Nucks have better PK, but absolutely no secondary scoring

(see how ridiculous
making conclusions after two games
is?)

��

Who the f.. is concluding anything?

That was mature - someone disagrees with something you say and you have a hissy-fit and resort to personal insults?   Classy.

  

Wow... i'll type slowly for you..

Where did i claim to be making conclusions?..... i didn't.
So.. where are we actually disagreeing here?..... we're not.

i took issue with your level of reading comprehension and incorrectly interpreting what i wrote into something it wasn't...
I didn't have a "hissy-fit" because you "disagreed with me"... i wrote what i wrote because of your inept reading comprehension skills claiming i'm making conclusions based on 2 games.

The fact you still don't get it... well... you know...

(I took 30 minutes to type this slowly for easier comprehension)

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[quote name='DL44 wrote:


C_worthy wrote:

DL44']

Who the f.. is
concluding
anything?

That was mature -
someone disagrees with something you say
and you have a hissy-fit and resort to personal insults?   Classy.

  

Wow... i'll type slowly for you..

Where did i claim to be making conclusions?..... i didn't.
So.. where are we actually disagreeing here?..... we're not.

i took issue with your level of reading comprehension and incorrectly interpreting what i wrote into something it wasn't...
I didn't have a "hissy-fit" because you "disagreed with me"... i wrote what i wrote because of your inept reading comprehension skills claiming i'm making conclusions based on 2 games.

The fact you still don't get it... well... you know...

(I took 30 minutes to type this slowly for easier comprehension)

Apparently, there is a lack of reading comprehension here - you're just having trouble understanding where it is taking place.  'Disagreeing with something you say' was a reference to the fact that I disagree that any trends can be identified after only two games.  You obviously took exception to that.  Then you had the class to to make a special ed reference and imply I can't get my head around something you say (apparently for you, disagreeing = not understanding).  Then you insult me again with the 'I'll type slowly' comments, and you only quote part of my post in an attempt to shape it in a way that suits you.

You have certainly proven what kind of person you are.  And yes, I think hissy-fit is pretty much covering it.

  

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Ladies, please. This is no place for rivals fans to childishly bicker.

Actually, this is the perfect place to do it. Carry on....

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I hate to say it, but more and more I think the Canucks are the best team in the league at the moment.

They have everything; top-end skill, offensive depth, good two-way forwards, energy players, solid two-way/puck-moving defensemen, defensive depth, a very good goalie, etc. They just need to get it together. They may not have the same offense as Washington or the defensive play of Boston, but they are balanced and solid throughout their lineup. There are no glaring weaknesses. Large, stay-at-home d-men are the only thing lacking, but the d-core is not small enough for it to be a huge concern.

They will be dangerous this season and next; they are in their prime. After next year, the window starts to close IMO. But lots can happen between now and then.

I can say this all because at least it isn't the Oilers. If the Oilers become dominant ever, I'm taking up a different sport and moving to another country....

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I hate to say it, but more and more I think the Canucks are the best team in the league at the moment.

They have everything; top-end skill, offensive depth, good two-way forwards, energy players, solid two-way/puck-moving defensemen, defensive depth, a very good goalie, etc. They just need to get it together. They may not have the same offense as Washington or the defensive play of Boston, but they are balanced and solid throughout their lineup. There are no glaring weaknesses. Large, stay-at-home d-men are the only thing lacking, but the d-core is not small enough for it to be a huge concern.

They will be dangerous this season and next; they are in their prime. After next year, the window starts to close IMO. But lots can happen between now and then.

I can say this all because at least it isn't the Oilers. If the Oilers become dominant ever, I'm taking up a different sport and moving to another country....

I agree.... it's my stance that Next yr is the yr for the Canucks to make their run based on development of their players and contracts....

Anything this yr past the 2nd or 3rd round is bonus.

I'm not one for believing the headlines... too much luck goes into how it all works out for absolute expectations for cup aspirations....

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[quote name='DL44 wrote:


kutarna']I hate to say it, but more and more I think the Canucks are the best team in the league at the moment.

They have everything; top-end skill, offensive depth, good two-way forwards, energy players, solid two-way/puck-moving defensemen, defensive depth, a very good goalie, etc. They just need to get it together. They may not have the same offense as Washington or the defensive play of Boston, but they are balanced and solid throughout their lineup. There are no glaring weaknesses. Large, stay-at-home d-men are the only thing lacking, but the d-core is not small enough for it to be a huge concern.

They will be dangerous this season and next; they are in their prime.
After next year, the window starts to close IMO
. But lots can happen between now and then.

I can say this all because at least it isn't the Oilers. If the Oilers become dominant ever, I'm taking up a different sport and moving to another country....

I agree.... it's my stance that Next yr is the yr for the Canucks to make their run based on development of their players and contracts....

Anything this yr past the 2nd or 3rd round is bonus.

I'm not one for believing the headlines... too much luck goes into how it all works out for absolute expectations for cup aspirations....It seems to me that it takes a different drive to win in the playoffs, something teams that do excellent in the regular lack from time to time. The Canucks have shown flashes of that, but also stretches where they completely lack it. I have no doubt they do well in the next 2 seasons, but whether they find that extra gear come spring determines whether they become like San Jose or like Detroit.

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I hate to say it, but more and more I think the Canucks are the best team in the league at the moment.

They have everything; top-end skill, offensive depth, good two-way forwards, energy players, solid two-way/puck-moving defensemen, defensive depth, a very good goalie, etc. They just need to get it together. They may not have the same offense as Washington or the defensive play of Boston, but they are balanced and solid throughout their lineup. There are no glaring weaknesses. Large, stay-at-home d-men are the only thing lacking, but the d-core is not small enough for it to be a huge concern.

They will be dangerous this season and next; they are in their prime. After next year, the window starts to close IMO. But lots can happen between now and then.

I can say this all because at least it isn't the Oilers. If the Oilers become dominant ever, I'm taking up a different sport and moving to another country....

Don't know if the Canucks look like the best team in the NHL at the moment no. They do look a lot better than the Flames indeed but the soothing comfort feeling comes from KNOWING that the Canucks success will run out in another Chicago playoff series (and probably in a Sharks or even a Wings series). Whew  !!

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