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Discussion & Debate Thread: Flames and Canucks

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Must be a blue moon tonight. I'm rooting for the Flames. Flames lead 4-3 over the Wings going into the third.

GO FLAMES!!!!!

That didn't feel all that sincere. :blink:

Eh, that's just because a Wings loss helps the 'Nucks more then a Flames win hurts them.

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Eh, that's just because a Wings loss helps the 'Nucks more then a Flames win hurts them.

That outcome couldnt have been more perfect for Canuck fans to be honest.... The wings were playing from behind all night long so they had to use alot of energy, game gets taken to a shootout so its a late night for them, another player gets injured ( Stuart ) so an already banged up team has 1 less starter, Detroits #1 goalie played and looked terrible meaning there is a good chance Osgood will start tomorrow night, and the Canucks most disliked team coughs up a lead and loses.... to top if off, the canucks steam rolled the oilers tonight in what looked like a pre-game practice for the Wings.

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#1 in goals/gm, PP, face-offs.

#3 PK

#5 now in goals against/gm.

Enjoying the numbers while I can.

Sedins chasing down Stamkos....

Kesler chasing a PPG.

Undefeated backup.

1 reg loss in the last 20.

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#1 in goals/gm, PP, face-offs.

#3 PK

#5 now in goals against/gm.

Enjoying the numbers while I can.

Sedins chasing down Stamkos....

Kesler chasing a PPG.

Undefeated backup.

1 reg loss in the last 20.

And as an added bonus, Alain Vigneault clinches the Western (or whatever you call it) all star coach position.

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That outcome couldnt have been more perfect for Canuck fans to be honest.... The wings were playing from behind all night long so they had to use alot of energy, game gets taken to a shootout so its a late night for them, another player gets injured ( Stuart ) so an already banged up team has 1 less starter, Detroits #1 goalie played and looked terrible meaning there is a good chance Osgood will start tomorrow night, and the Canucks most disliked team coughs up a lead and loses.... to top if off, the canucks steam rolled the oilers tonight in what looked like a pre-game practice for the Wings.

Om the first two maybe. But he made several fantastic saves in the 3rd and in OT to earn the win. The terrible goaltending was at the other end

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And as an added bonus, Alain Vigneault clinches the Western (or whatever you call it) all star coach position.

Hopefully he triple shifts players like Kane, Toews, Keith , Lidstrom etc..... any of the players who may face Vancouver in the playoffs :P

Om the first two maybe. But he made several fantastic saves in the 3rd and in OT to earn the win. The terrible goaltending was at the other end

It was an off night for Kipper for sure.... I dont blame him for the deflection off Giordano but a couple others he should have had....

As mentioned in the game thread , im not sure why Sutter has been calling him out. He has been the backbone of this team for a couple years now and one of the top goalie's in the league.

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And as an added bonus, Alain Vigneault clinches the Western (or whatever you call it) all star coach position.

& Lavy co-coaches.

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And Howard stole the show last night. He made many big saves, including 2 unbelievable HUGE saves, 1 on each Sedin. Both big glove saves, one on a Daniel breakaway and the other on a cross-ice pass to Henrik. Both he was moving from his right to his left and had the whole net open, but was able to get his glove on both of 'em.

What a great game that was again last night. All 3 versus Detroit have been awesome games, Playoff-like in each for sure. You can tell when these two teams play right now, each one steps up there game just a little bit more than normal, and it showed on the ice last night.

And like Kesler said after the game "There isn't shootouts in the playoffs". :P

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THE HALFWAY POINT

Canucks (Flames in brackets)

10 gms: 5-3-2, 12 pts, 2nd in the NW, 9th in the West, 16th overall (6-5, 12 pts, 3rd, 10th, 17th)

20 gms: 10-7-3, 23pts, 2nd in the NW, 8th in the West, 15th Overall (8-11-1, 17pts, 4th, 14th, 27th)

30 gms: 18-8-4, 40pts, 2nd in the NW, 4th in the West, 9th Overall ( 33gms, 14-16-3, 31pts, 4th, 14th, 24th)

41 gms: 27-8-6, 60pts, 1st in the NW, 1st in the West, 1st Overall (42gms, 18-20-4,40pts, 4th, 14th, 24th)

Point %

10 gms: 0.600, 10th (17th)

20 gms: 0.575, 15th (27th)

30 gms: 0.667, 3rd (23rd)

41 gms: 0.732, 1st (24th)

G/gm

10 gms: 2.70, 18th (13th)

20 gms: 2.90, 13th, (12th)

30 gms: 3.23, 4th, (18th)

41 gms: 3.42, 1st (20th)

GA/gm

10 gms: 2.20, 3rd (22nd)

20 gms: 2.70, 13th (23rd)

30 gms: 2.50, 7th (19th)

41 gms: 2.34, 4th (19th)

PP %

10 gms: 21.0%, 9th (25th)

20 gms: 27.0, 1st (19th)

30 gms: 23.8, 3rd (23rd)

41 gms: 25.0, 1st (24th)

PK %

10 gms: 84.6, 13th (19th)

20 gms: 87.2, 5th (20th)

30 gms: 85.0, 5th (23rd)

41 gms: 85.5, 4th (22nd)

PP G

10 gms: 8, 10th (19th)

20 gms: 20, 2nd (14th)

30 gms: ?, 4th (26th)

41 gms: 41, 1st (20th)

PP GA

10 gms: 6, 9th (16th)

20 gms: 10, 5th (20th)

30 gms: ?, 4th (14th)

41 gms: 22, 5th (24th)

SoG

10 gms: 30.5, 17th (10th)

20 gms: 31.4, 11th (10th)

30 gms: 30.5, 16th, (17th)

41 gms: 31.3, 13th (14th)

SoGA

10 gms: 30.7, 18th (9th)

20 gms: 31.4, 20th (12th)

30 gms: 29.2, 13th (9th)

41 gms: 30.1, 17th (2nd)

+/-

10 gms: +3, 10th (15th)

20 gms: -6, 21st (18th)

30 gms: +10, 7th (18th)

41 gms: +25, 3rd (20th)

Faceoffs

10 gms: 56.5, 1st (23rd)

20 gms: 56.6, 1st (27th)

30 gms: 57.4, 1st (24th)

41 gms: 56.4, 1st (24th)

Hits

10 gms: 257, 9th (19th)

20 gms: 468, 8th (17th)

30 gms: 684, 19th (18th)

41 gms: 949, 12th (25th)

Blocked Shots

10 gms: 144, 18th (15th)

20 gms: 281, 17th (22nd)

30 gms: 431, 20th (12th)

41 gms: 571, 20th (17th)

Giveaways

10 gms: 58, 5th (25th)

20 gms: 137, 7th (17th)

30 gms: 196, 6th (24th)

41 gms: 270, 6th (25th)

Takeaways

10 gms: 81, 8th (11th)

20 gms: 159, 6th (21st)

30 gms: 237, 14th (18th)

41 gms: 319, 10th (26th)

Shootout

Van: 1-3

Cal: 4-3

Explanation from flames fan please:

Calgary being 2nd in the league in SoGA...

A.. Is that from teams backing off after they get a lead..

B.. Quality defensive play..

Edit: Nevermind... NJ is 1st in the league in SoGA... answer i'm now assuming must be A - teams backing off.

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THE HALFWAY POINT

Canucks (Flames in brackets)

10 gms: 5-3-2, 12 pts, 2nd in the NW, 9th in the West, 16th overall (6-5, 12 pts, 3rd, 10th, 17th)

20 gms: 10-7-3, 23pts, 2nd in the NW, 8th in the West, 15th Overall (8-11-1, 17pts, 4th, 14th, 27th)

30 gms: 18-8-4, 40pts, 2nd in the NW, 4th in the West, 9th Overall ( 33gms, 14-16-3, 31pts, 4th, 14th, 24th)

41 gms: 27-8-6, 60pts, 1st in the NW, 1st in the West, 1st Overall (42gms, 18-20-4,40pts, 4th, 14th, 24th)

Point %

10 gms: 0.600, 10th (17th)

20 gms: 0.575, 15th (27th)

30 gms: 0.667, 3rd (23rd)

41 gms: 0.732, 1st (24th)

G/gm

10 gms: 2.70, 18th (13th)

20 gms: 2.90, 13th, (12th)

30 gms: 3.23, 4th, (18th)

41 gms: 3.42, 1st (20th)

GA/gm

10 gms: 2.20, 3rd (22nd)

20 gms: 2.70, 13th (23rd)

30 gms: 2.50, 7th (19th)

41 gms: 2.34, 4th (19th)

PP %

10 gms: 21.0%, 9th (25th)

20 gms: 27.0, 1st (19th)

30 gms: 23.8, 3rd (23rd)

41 gms: 25.0, 1st (24th)

PK %

10 gms: 84.6, 13th (19th)

20 gms: 87.2, 5th (20th)

30 gms: 85.0, 5th (23rd)

41 gms: 85.5, 4th (22nd)

PP G

10 gms: 8, 10th (19th)

20 gms: 20, 2nd (14th)

30 gms: ?, 4th (26th)

41 gms: 41, 1st (20th)

PP GA

10 gms: 6, 9th (16th)

20 gms: 10, 5th (20th)

30 gms: ?, 4th (14th)

41 gms: 22, 5th (24th)

SoG

10 gms: 30.5, 17th (10th)

20 gms: 31.4, 11th (10th)

30 gms: 30.5, 16th, (17th)

41 gms: 31.3, 13th (14th)

SoGA

10 gms: 30.7, 18th (9th)

20 gms: 31.4, 20th (12th)

30 gms: 29.2, 13th (9th)

41 gms: 30.1, 17th (2nd)

+/-

10 gms: +3, 10th (15th)

20 gms: -6, 21st (18th)

30 gms: +10, 7th (18th)

41 gms: +25, 3rd (20th)

Faceoffs

10 gms: 56.5, 1st (23rd)

20 gms: 56.6, 1st (27th)

30 gms: 57.4, 1st (24th)

41 gms: 56.4, 1st (24th)

Hits

10 gms: 257, 9th (19th)

20 gms: 468, 8th (17th)

30 gms: 684, 19th (18th)

41 gms: 949, 12th (25th)

Blocked Shots

10 gms: 144, 18th (15th)

20 gms: 281, 17th (22nd)

30 gms: 431, 20th (12th)

41 gms: 571, 20th (17th)

Giveaways

10 gms: 58, 5th (25th)

20 gms: 137, 7th (17th)

30 gms: 196, 6th (24th)

41 gms: 270, 6th (25th)

Takeaways

10 gms: 81, 8th (11th)

20 gms: 159, 6th (21st)

30 gms: 237, 14th (18th)

41 gms: 319, 10th (26th)

Shootout

Van: 1-3

Cal: 4-3

Explanation from flames fan please:

Calgary being 2nd in the league in SoGA...

A.. Is that from teams backing off after they get a lead..

B.. Quality defensive play..

Edit: Nevermind... NJ is 1st in the league in SoGA... answer i'm now assuming must be A - teams backing off.

:)

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DL, what I meant to say is that if he was with the Flames he wouldn't have 23 or so goals. He would not be putting number one centre numbers. He is taking advantage of the Sedins on the PP and is taking advantage of playing for the best team. But if he was the go to centreman, he would not be able to carry the load. That's just my opinion. Kesler is a very good number two centreman in my mind, but he's not at the level of the true #1's.

I never tried to argue Kesler would get less production than Stajan or Jokinen in a Flames' uniform, I just said that he wouldn't be an answer here as our number 1 centre. 65-70 points, that's still better than our current centres but that's not number one centre potential.

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DL, what I meant to say is that if he was with the Flames he wouldn't have 23 or so goals. He would not be putting number one centre numbers. He is taking advantage of the Sedins on the PP and is taking advantage of playing for the best team. But if he was the go to centreman, he would not be able to carry the load. That's just my opinion. Kesler is a very good number two centreman in my mind, but he's not at the level of the true #1's.

I never tried to argue Kesler would get less production than Stajan or Jokinen in a Flames' uniform, I just said that he wouldn't be an answer here as our number 1 centre. 65-70 points, that's still better than our current centres but that's not number one centre potential.

Ok, fair enough, its your opinion...

And I could almost totally accept your opinion until i got to the bolded part.

65-70 pts is definitely very good/solid #1 center numbers. Probably not necessarily Franchise/elite numbers, but definitely #1 center numbers...

But also for the record... Kesler was a 75pt player last yr as a mere 25 yr old... and this yr is on pace for 80. he's a little better than the 65-70pts you suggest right now... and that's before he reaches his developmental peak.

i.e. His wrist shot development this yr.... incredible... elite level.

"But if he was the go to centreman, he would not be able to carry the load"

How do you know? based on what? gut feeling?

As for the Sedin-effect... he has just 8/23 of his goals on the PP and 16/40 of his pts on the PP with the Sedins. The rest he's produced with Tambellini, Hansen, Raymond, etc..

So to suggest Kesler's production is thanks primarily to the Sedins would be incorrect...

Also consider that Kesler's actual contribution can not be merely measured by his already great offensive numbers alone. PK, PP, ES, FO, leadership, grit, Selke nominee, physical attributes, etc etc..

For the record, the only centers on pace for More than 70 pts this yr:

Towes, Thornton, Malkin, Richards, Getzlaf was, Stasny, Backstrom, Datsyuk was, Kesler, Staal, Duschene, Kopitar, Zetterberg, Richards, Sedin, Stamkos, Crosby.

17ish. and pretty much ALL of them are considered Franchise type players.

the flames have been unable to acquire a center of similar caliber of the above list for the last 6 yrs... altho prime Langkow came close one season.

Makes me very grateful the Canucks have TWO locked up as their 1-2 punch for the next 5 yrs.

Kinda drifting from the point now which was it's clear (to me i guess) that Kesler would easily fulfill #1 center line duties on the Flames.

He would be their most effective center and would get more pts, ice time, and responsibility than anyone else the Flames have...

by general definition that equals #1 center for the Flames.

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DL, what I meant to say is that if he was with the Flames he wouldn't have 23 or so goals. He would not be putting number one centre numbers. He is taking advantage of the Sedins on the PP and is taking advantage of playing for the best team. But if he was the go to centreman, he would not be able to carry the load. That's just my opinion. Kesler is a very good number two centreman in my mind, but he's not at the level of the true #1's.

I never tried to argue Kesler would get less production than Stajan or Jokinen in a Flames' uniform, I just said that he wouldn't be an answer here as our number 1 centre. 65-70 points, that's still better than our current centres but that's not number one centre potential.

Toews has never broken 70 points before..... on an extremely stacked Blackhawks team.

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2 shutout losses last week and a 1/12 Power Play run from the #1 unit in the league and a light is shone on some concerning trends for the Canuck offense...

Samuelsson - no goals, 1 pt in 12

Tambellini - no points in 10

Malhotra - no points in 9

Torres - no goals in 9

H Sedin - no goals in 9

Raymond - no goals in 8

Hansen - no goals in 7

Burrows - 1 goal in 7

Essentially only Daniel, Kesler and the D have been scoring for a significant amount of time now.

2/3rds the top line is dry for goals.. altho Daniel has 11g in 14 to make up for it and they set the D up quite a bit.

2/3rds of the 2nd line is dry.

the whole 3rd line is dry.

On plus side... The scoring of Canuck D has been outstanding...

The top 2:

Bieksa 10pts in last 12

Ehrhoff 14pts in last 18

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Yup...

3 more goals scored last night... D man, Kesler, Call up.

Everyone's streak is extended.

Cold

Samuelsson - no goals in 13

Tambellini - no points in 11

Malhotra - no points in 10

Torres - no goals in 10

H Sedin - no goals in 10

Raymond - no goals in 9

Hansen - no goals in 8

Burrows - 1 goal in 8

5 top 9 F in double digits. 3 more approaching. eewww. Time for some Home Cooking boys!

Keeping in the spirit of the thread... for comparison purposes... The flames are quite a bit warmer than the Canucks right now i assume.

I'll check and edit with an update..

Edit (listed are the guys i checked):

Iggy and Moss are fine..

Cold

Jokinen - no goals in 9

Morrison - no goals in 15.

Hagman - 1 goal in 13

Backlund - 1 goal in 24

Stajan - 2pts in 13.

Were cold, now a little warmer

Bourque - 2g in last 4, none in 10 prior.

Glencross - 3g in last 5, none in 17 prior.

Kotalik - 2g in 3, 3 on his season - 18gms.. finding his groove?

Tanguay - was 9 without a goal till last gm.

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Not really a slump for Henrik. He is still piling up the assists, and that's what matters for him. He is still dishing and Daniel/Kesler/Defencemen are still finishing.

Sure, he is on pace for much less goals than last season (but more assists) but even last season he had goal droughts. 1 goal in the last 13 games of the season. Had 10 without prior to that and a 9er early in the year. I'm not worried about Henrik.

Who I am worried about though is Burrows and Raymond. Neither of these guys have been able to come close to their production from last season, and haven't looked the same on the ice either. What do they have in common? Both are coming off injuries. But Raymond has been back for 10 games and 36 for Burrows. Either they came back too early and they haven't allowed their injuries to fully heal or it's something else all together.

Samuelsson I'm not too worried about. He has been a lot more inconsistent this year compared to last, but also has had the odd great game here or there. He has also played well on the 3rd line a lot of the year. He was better last night too.

Torres we knew would be a streaky scorer, and he will probably hit another hot streak before season's end, but as long as the line is playing strong defence and he continues to throw the body, his lack of scoring isn't too big of a concern. Same goes for Malhotra.

Hansen. Man has he been a tower or energy and hard work all year. He could easily have 20 goals by now. I think he will find his touch sooner or later.

And Shirokov on the 2nd line might be the extra bit on energy and enthusiasm that is needed to jump start some of those guys. What a 1st goal last night eh?

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Latest edition of Luongo > Kipper

Luongo:

21-8-5

2.38

.920

2 SO

Kipper:

17-18-2

2.84

.897

3 SO

Enjoy it while you can Don.

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Enjoy it while you can Don.

That's exactly what I'm doing. We all know how cyclical sports are, so if you don't enjoy it while its lasts you'll miss out!

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Canucks buck the trend and avoid a 3rd straight shootout.

Oh, and they also won 7-1.

Big game for players who have struggled in the past 10 games or so.

Burrows 1st goal in 7.

Samuelsson 1st goal in 15.

Raymond 1st goal in 12.

The very 3 guys I said were extremely important to snap the slump and get back to their scoring forms. Torres, Malhotra, Tambellini, Hansen not near as much.

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I think its funny how Don posts stats and gets minuses for it. Don, I don't think its you, just that you post about Lou. Once again (as evidenced by the shootout vs. Calgary), he comes up short in important situations.

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I think its funny how Don posts stats and gets minuses for it. Don, I don't think its you, just that you post about Lou. Once again (as evidenced by the shootout vs. Calgary), he comes up short in important situations.

If I took my neg votes personally, I would have jumped off the Lions Gate Bridge already.

He made several big saves tonight including a HUGE one with a minute left. He comes up big in those situations, as long as hey are not shootouts.

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