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I find Ballard to be the most intriguing part, we've done our whining about Stajan, Hagman, Kotalik and he makes a fair bit more and still has 4 years left. Thats a big price for 8th on the depth chart. Can he rebound or is he just a bad fit on the Canucks blueline?

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So the serious thread - Are the Canucks still strong Cup contenders next year?

I think there has to be questions at this point. Questions about the Core.

(1) Did the Sedins prove that they are not sufficient playoff performers? I would think so this year but maybe some feel no, if not what if anything can be done.

(2) Do Canuck fans see Luo as having playoff issues under pressure as well or is it business as usual?

(3) On the plus side I think Kesler far and away established himself as a player with a higher playoff gear.

(4) Will the riots effect the mood of the team, the potential to take on free agents who may not want to Vancouver now because of the riots / rep of the team?

These are meant to be honest questions in the spirit of open respectful debate we have in this thread. I'm curious what Canuck fans think. Is there doubt now going forward? There is always optimism after coming so close to the Cup but speaking from the experience of a Flames fans it isn't so easy to get to that Cup final. Teams in the west are going to tweak stronger.

Thoughts? And don't mess with me - I have over a 100+ mocking riot images to fire back at you Canuck fans if you are mean to me - I kid, actually I don't, nah I do, Trolls rarely come in this thread...

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So the serious thread - Are the Canucks still strong Cup contenders next year?

I think there has to be questions at this point. Questions about the Core.

(1) Did the Sedins prove that they are not sufficient playoff performers? I would think so this year but maybe some feel no, if not what if anything can be done.

(2) Do Canuck fans see Luo as having playoff issues under pressure as well or is it business as usual?

(3) On the plus side I think Kesler far and away established himself as a player with a higher playoff gear.

(4) Will the riots effect the mood of the team, the potential to take on free agents who may not want to Vancouver now because of the riots / rep of the team?

These are meant to be honest questions in the spirit of open respectful debate we have in this thread. I'm curious what Canuck fans think. Is there doubt now going forward? There is always optimism after coming so close to the Cup but speaking from the experience of a Flames fans it isn't so easy to get to that Cup final. Teams in the west are going to tweak stronger.

Thoughts? And don't mess with me - I have over a 100+ mocking riot images to fire back at you Canuck fans if you are mean to me - I kid, actually I don't, nah I do, Trolls rarely come in this thread...

I have no problem with the Sedins going forward.... they had a rough finals but that also had to do with the fact they were up against Thomas. Both had 20+ points and were still creating chances. They didnt give up and worked hard down to there last shift.

As far as Luongo goes, I dont really think it had to do with playoff pressure as it does that he is just inconsistent. He has been very prone to let weak goals go in the last couple seasons and it has had a snowball effect. There were examples of big games in the playoffs that he showed up for ( gm7 vs hawks, gm 1 vs bruins , gm 5 vs bruins ) but his weak goals that he let in really killed Vancouver's chances. I really hope we get to see more of Schnieder next year

Kesler was fairly quiet in the finals as well but I think another top line player would do him wonders. Samuelson injured didnt help because I dont see Higgens as a true 2nd line player. Raymond struggled all year offensively but i do like his speed aspect.

I really dont think the riots will affect players decision to come.... it is still a very beautiful city and players want a good chance at winning it all. The Canucks, with there core, have the pieces to be challenging in the playoffs for a few years so it should attract interest from UFA's.

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I find Ballard to be the most intriguing part, we've done our whining about Stajan, Hagman, Kotalik and he makes a fair bit more and still has 4 years left. Thats a big price for 8th on the depth chart. Can he rebound or is he just a bad fit on the Canucks blueline?

I actually dont mind Ballard and think he just got off to a rough start in Vancouver and never really found his game. His confidence must be shot with AV handling him the way he did. 8-1 loss without Ballard and AV says nothing, 5-2 loss with him and AV blasts Ballard in the post game ? Its clear that AV wants him gone so im sure Gillis will try and unload him during the off season at a loss ( we gave up a 1st rounder and Grabner for him ) and concentrate on re-signing Bieksa and Ehrhoff.

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I'm happy that we can now get rid of the enmity & go back to civilized discussion.

The rosters DL posted are obviously open to change as the trading season is now officially open. The 'Nucks have their core under contract but have to fill about 10 spots with 18 million. The Flames have under 7 to fill 5 spots. Both GMs are going to have to be creative.

@ the draft next Fri. I'm expecting wheeling & dealing. After the Oilers take RNH there could be jockeying for position as there doesn't seem to be a clear cut #2-8. Columbus & NYI have already said their picks are in play for a roster player. Then 9-about 20 seem to differ depending on the mockup you check so again teams could make moves. Add the # of teams tight to the cap that need to dump salary & it might be worth watching this year.

A side note (& I hope this isn't taken wrong), this week will be a good time to check out your local sports stores as they'll be clearing quality Canuck gear tagged 2011 SC champions. They order things so they have stock right after the final but obviously can't sell the 1s from the runner-up @ full retail. I remember buying Wings shirts like that & just wearing the t-shirt under my work clothes. $5 for that vs. $20-25 for the same quality without the logo made it a deal. JMO.

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I have no problem with the Sedins going forward.... they had a rough finals but that also had to do with the fact they were up against Thomas. Both had 20+ points and were still creating chances. They didnt give up and worked hard down to there last shift.

I think once the dust settles and the playoff numbers get dusted off, I think some Canuck fans are going to cast a critical eye on the playoff Sedins vs the regular season Sedins. I think they will start to look at them a little more analytically.

Regular Season (2010-11)

D Sedin - 82GP 104P PPG= 1.27 +30

H Sedin - 82GP 94P PPG= 1.15 +26

Playoffs (2011)

D Sedin - 25GP 20P PPG= 0.8 -9

H Sedin - 25GP 22P PPG= 0.88 -11

If the playoff PPG performance of the Sedins was translated into the regular season production of 82 games they would have scored 66 points (D Sedin) and 72 points (H Sedin) This would have dropped them to 33rd (Daniel) and 21st (Henrik) overall.

Conclusion

This is still good of course but keep in mind this is no Jarome Iginla (6th overall), Brad Richards (10th overall) and Eric Staal (11th overall) producing on non-playoff teams with clearly a weaker supporting cast. This is the playoff production of two players surrounded by an elite team. The #1 PP in the NHL, #1 offense etc etc. In short they are producing peak numbers because of the team around them just as much as because of their own skill. They are not going to get much higher BUT they can not translate that production into the playoffs.

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I think once the dust settles and the playoff numbers get dusted off, I think some Canuck fans are going to cast a critical eye on the playoff Sedins vs the regular season Sedins. I think they will start to look at them a little more analytically.

Regular Season (2010-11)

D Sedin - 82GP 104P PPG= 1.27 +30

H Sedin - 82GP 94P PPG= 1.15 +26

Playoffs (2011)

D Sedin - 25GP 20P PPG= 0.8 -9

H Sedin - 25GP 22P PPG= 0.88 -11

If the playoff PPG performance of the Sedins was translated into the regular season production of 82 games they would have scored 66 points (D Sedin) and 72 points (H Sedin) This would have dropped them to 33rd (Daniel) and 21st (Henrik) overall.

Conclusion

This is still good of course but keep in mind this is no Jarome Iginla (6th overall), Brad Richards (10th overall) and Eric Staal (11th overall) producing on non-playoff teams with clearly a weaker supporting cast. This is the playoff production of two players surrounded by an elite team. The #1 PP in the NHL, #1 offense etc etc. In short they are producing peak numbers because of the team around them just as much as because of their own skill. They are not going to get much higher BUT they can not translate that production into the playoffs.

There is a huge difference between regular season and playoffs though.... you dont get the luxury of playing weaker teams or teams that are in a deep slump. For example, you mention Iginla's point... in 6 games vs Vancouver he scored 1 goal and that came on a 5vs3 in the last game of the season which was meaningless. However he scored 6 goals in 6 games vs Edmonton who is the worst team in the league. In the playoffs you dont get the Edmonton's of the league. Vancouver faced some of the toughest teams and some of the hottest goalie's ( Crawford, Rinne, Thomas ) . In 04, Iggy was considered Calgary's hero of the playoffs and he had 22 points in 26 games. Henrik had 22 in 25 games yet its a disappointment ?

In the wake of losing game 7 could the Sedins have been better ? sure... there is room for improvement but overall im ok with how far the helped Vancouver get in these playoffs.

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I'm happy that we can now get rid of the enmity & go back to civilized discussion.

The rosters DL posted are obviously open to change as the trading season is now officially open. The 'Nucks have their core under contract but have to fill about 10 spots with 18 million. The Flames have under 7 to fill 5 spots. Both GMs are going to have to be creative.

@ the draft next Fri. I'm expecting wheeling & dealing. After the Oilers take RNH there could be jockeying for position as there doesn't seem to be a clear cut #2-8. Columbus & NYI have already said their picks are in play for a roster player. Then 9-about 20 seem to differ depending on the mockup you check so again teams could make moves. Add the # of teams tight to the cap that need to dump salary & it might be worth watching this year.

A side note (& I hope this isn't taken wrong), this week will be a good time to check out your local sports stores as they'll be clearing quality Canuck gear tagged 2011 SC champions. They order things so they have stock right after the final but obviously can't sell the 1s from the runner-up @ full retail. I remember buying Wings shirts like that & just wearing the t-shirt under my work clothes. $5 for that vs. $20-25 for the same quality without the logo made it a deal. JMO.

I love the quick turn around with the draft just around the corner...

Can't wait to see the NHL shuffle begin...

As for the backup gear, I don't think that will see the light of day here...

Isn't that merchandise usually shipped off to the 3rd world? Or the homeless?

Less than 2 weeks to July 1st... Which free agents do you wish to add?

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There is a huge difference between regular season and playoffs though.... you dont get the luxury of playing weaker teams or teams that are in a deep slump. For example, you mention Iginla's point... in 6 games vs Vancouver he scored 1 goal and that came on a 5vs3 in the last game of the season which was meaningless. However he scored 6 goals in 6 games vs Edmonton who is the worst team in the league. In the playoffs you dont get the Edmonton's of the league. Vancouver faced some of the toughest teams and some of the hottest goalie's ( Crawford, Rinne, Thomas ) . In 04, Iggy was considered Calgary's hero of the playoffs and he had 22 points in 26 games. Henrik had 22 in 25 games yet its a disappointment ?

In the wake of losing game 7 could the Sedins have been better ? sure... there is room for improvement but overall im ok with how far the helped Vancouver get in these playoffs.

I agree to some extent to most of what you said, but the bolded section doesn't make any sense at all. Iginla wasn't a PPG player in the regular season in 03/04. Henrik was in 10/11. Iginla's best linemate was Craig Conroy, who had 8(EIGHT!!!) goals and 47 pts in the regular season. Henrik's best linemate was Daniel Sedin, who had more points than he did in the regular season. How is there any kind of parallel there??

and anyway, Iginla had 13 goals in the postseason. How many did Henrik have? Besides, the Flames' playoff heroes were Kiprusoff and Martin Gelinas (3 series winning goals, 2 of those in overtime). Iginla was merely their only star forward.

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One of the major things That the Canucks need to fix if is having a better pp Now there pp was awsome during the playoff from hawks preds sharks...But the Brooins literally shutdown the sedins witch is a big part of the canuck pp and imho that really realy hurt the canucks And badly if they could possibly Get another line working on the pp other then the Sedin line i think that would really really Set the canucks moving forward as a team so that you just cant shut down the sedins you also have to try and shut down there other Pp team aswell

Just my 2 cents

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In 04, Iggy was considered Calgary's hero of the playoffs and he had 22 points in 26 games. Henrik had 22 in 25 games yet its a disappointment ?

I say different era's and different teams. Keep in mind the Flames that year had one player with over 50 points, one defenseman with over 5 goals (and it was below 10), were missing McAmmond and Reinprecht who while healthy were good contributors on offense. Canucks had 5 50 point guys, 4 defensemen with over 5 goals 3 of which missed some significant time. Another thing Iginla might not have dominated a round like Henrik did against the Sharks, but he wasn't really invisible for one either, his worst was 4 points in 6 games vs. Detroit but considering Detroit has had a good history of shutting down top players in the playoffs its really not that bad.

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Some here may wanna split hairs with numbers etc....

The Sedins impressed the helll outta me these playoffs... They were completely vindicated from any criticism thrown their way over the yrs in my eyes... They just led their team to within a game of the SC... Led the playoff scoring coming into the final.

They got beat by a better team that was able to neutralize their scoring... Thy didn't neutralize their chances tho... They had their chances... But came up short.

Their performances this playoffs is something they can be proud of... 15 wins... Won 3 rounds.. THREE rounds.

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There is a huge difference between regular season and playoffs though.... you dont get the luxury of playing weaker teams or teams that are in a deep slump. For example, you mention Iginla's point... in 6 games vs Vancouver he scored 1 goal and that came on a 5vs3 in the last game of the season which was meaningless. However he scored 6 goals in 6 games vs Edmonton who is the worst team in the league. In the playoffs you dont get the Edmonton's of the league. Vancouver faced some of the toughest teams and some of the hottest goalie's ( Crawford, Rinne, Thomas ) . In 04, Iggy was considered Calgary's hero of the playoffs and he had 22 points in 26 games. Henrik had 22 in 25 games yet its a disappointment ?

In the wake of losing game 7 could the Sedins have been better ? sure... there is room for improvement but overall im ok with how far the helped Vancouver get in these playoffs.

Iginla was also +13 in the 2004 playoffs - any comment on defensive liabilities of the Sedins as playoff players this year ?

Some here may wanna split hairs with numbers etc....

The Sedins impressed the helll outta me these playoffs... They were completely vindicated from any criticism thrown their way over the yrs in my eyes... They just led their team to within a game of the SC... Led the playoff scoring coming into the final.

They got beat by a better team that was able to neutralize their scoring... Thy didn't neutralize their chances tho... They had their chances... But came up short.

Their performances this playoffs is something they can be proud of... 15 wins... Won 3 rounds.. THREE rounds.

What about the + / - Sedin stats?

The #1 team of the NHL regular season and top in most categories, offense, defense, PP etc can not be satisfied with just coming in second. We were pumped in Calgary in 2004 because of the unexpected nature of the run. The team far and away exceeded expectations.

Can you say the Canucks exceeded expectations and if not is it something to be proud of still?

Regardless I think once the emotion and dust settle - calmer more analytical eyes will look things over player by player strictly on their playoff performance. The Sedins may get a passing grade but not sure I would see them as top of the class.

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I love the quick turn around with the draft just around the corner...

Can't wait to see the NHL shuffle begin...

As for the backup gear, I don't think that will see the light of day here...

Isn't that merchandise usually shipped off to the 3rd world? Or the homeless?

Less than 2 weeks to July 1st... Which free agents do you wish to add?

I'm holding off on the FAs because I expect the best RFAs to be qualified & some taken to team elected arbitration like has happened with Weber & Parise. Many of the UFAs will be re-signed so I'll decide once I have a truer picture of what's available. I also expect a # of trades as we near the draft because the cap teams will be dumping salary. For instance, the Flyers will have to dump 1 or 2 if they intend to sign Bryz & still field a full roster. A team adding Hartnell or Carle isn't looking as hard @ what's available through FA. After the draft I expect there will be a clearer picture of who's available & probable price tag.

For now I'm scanning the draft charts to try to figure who goes where. RHN to Edmonton is about the only thing I see as a given. Unless the Flyers can gain a pick in a trade they don't draft until #84 so I'm keeping an eye on who could be available for Wpg. @ #7 & Calgary @ #13.

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I'm holding off on the FAs because I expect the best RFAs to be qualified & some taken to team elected arbitration like has happened with Weber & Parise. Many of the UFAs will be re-signed so I'll decide once I have a truer picture of what's available. I also expect a # of trades as we near the draft because the cap teams will be dumping salary. For instance, the Flyers will have to dump 1 or 2 if they intend to sign Bryz & still field a full roster. A team adding Hartnell or Carle isn't looking as hard @ what's available through FA. After the draft I expect there will be a clearer picture of who's available & probable price tag.

For now I'm scanning the draft charts to try to figure who goes where. RHN to Edmonton is about the only thing I see as a given. Unless the Flyers can gain a pick in a trade they don't draft until #84 so I'm keeping an eye on who could be available for Wpg. @ #7 & Calgary @ #13.

Step by step is the way to go...

Next step... Gauge your needs, predict who will be available, weight in the people that get bought out, and go into the draft to either move 'n shake or draft as your scouts suggest.

What I wanna see is us draft another Ehrhoff type Dman... A complete package skill-wise... A puck moving, high IQ, quick AND fast (yes, there is a difference) damn with a good shot and creative mind..

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I agree to some extent to most of what you said, but the bolded section doesn't make any sense at all. Iginla wasn't a PPG player in the regular season in 03/04. Henrik was in 10/11. Iginla's best linemate was Craig Conroy, who had 8(EIGHT!!!) goals and 47 pts in the regular season. Henrik's best linemate was Daniel Sedin, who had more points than he did in the regular season. How is there any kind of parallel there??

and anyway, Iginla had 13 goals in the postseason. How many did Henrik have? Besides, the Flames' playoff heroes were Kiprusoff and Martin Gelinas (3 series winning goals, 2 of those in overtime). Iginla was merely their only star forward.

I dont look at the regular season stats and compare them to playoff stats. Its a whole different ball game IMO . The point was that Iginla ( who had a good playoff run) finished with 22 points in 26 games. Sedin ( who we find out was injured ) had 22 in 25. Regardless of who his linemate was, its still a pretty decent playoff run.

I say different era's and different teams. Keep in mind the Flames that year had one player with over 50 points, one defenseman with over 5 goals (and it was below 10), were missing McAmmond and Reinprecht who while healthy were good contributors on offense. Canucks had 5 50 point guys, 4 defensemen with over 5 goals 3 of which missed some significant time. Another thing Iginla might not have dominated a round like Henrik did against the Sharks, but he wasn't really invisible for one either, his worst was 4 points in 6 games vs. Detroit but considering Detroit has had a good history of shutting down top players in the playoffs its really not that bad.

Its a fair assessment and im not really trying to compare/argue who was better. Considering Iginla didnt have as much talent and played in a tougher era he probably did more for his team that Sedin but I dont have an issue with how the Sedins played in the playoffs for Vancouver.

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Iginla was also +13 in the 2004 playoffs - any comment on defensive liabilities of the Sedins as playoff players this year ?

What about the + / - Sedin stats?

The #1 team of the NHL regular season and top in most categories, offense, defense, PP etc can not be satisfied with just coming in second. We were pumped in Calgary in 2004 because of the unexpected nature of the run. The team far and away exceeded expectations.

Can you say the Canucks exceeded expectations and if not is it something to be proud of still?

Regardless I think once the emotion and dust settle - calmer more analytical eyes will look things over player by player strictly on their playoff performance. The Sedins may get a passing grade but not sure I would see them as top of the class.

Im sure a few Canuck fans will have issue with what I say here but the Sedins had the misfortune of being on the ice almost everytime Luongo had one of his brain cramps. The 3 he let in from behind the net, the Thorton give away, the Boston blow out, the Hawks blowout. If it was a matter of them getting outworked or getting caught trying to dangle the puck out of there own end then yes, id be worried. Being on the ice when a goalie lets a bad goal in is just bad luck and Luongo had his share of bad goals this post season.

Im not disappointed in finishing 2nd even though we were tops in the league in most categories. When was the last team that won the presidents trophy went on to win it all? It doesnt happen very often yet we came 1 game away from accomplishing it. We also had 24 games vs non playoff teams ( our entire division) so that will help the stats a bit. For me, the big test will come next year to see if they can learn from it like the Penguins did and get back to the finals.

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I dont look at the regular season stats and compare them to playoff stats. Its a whole different ball game IMO . The point was that Iginla ( who had a good playoff run) finished with 22 points in 26 games. Sedin ( who we find out was injured ) had 22 in 25. Regardless of who his linemate was, its still a pretty decent playoff run.

Its a fair assessment and im not really trying to compare/argue who was better. Considering Iginla didnt have as much talent and played in a tougher era he probably did more for his team that Sedin but I dont have an issue with how the Sedins played in the playoffs for Vancouver.

I don't think many rational fans do have an issue with them all things considered... It was an amazingly awesome yr where the team performed well above expectations.

Flipped switch thanks to their nemesis November 21st ish.. And never looked back... The further development of the team as a group is exciting for next yr.

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What I wanna see is us draft another Ehrhoff type Dman... A complete package skill-wise... A puck moving, high IQ, quick AND fast (yes, there is a difference) damn with a good shot and creative mind..

With this in mind, maybe the Canucks should trade up a little to get Joe Morrow. He's the guy that immediately popped into my head when I read this section. Has a great slapshot, good skating, great vision, decent size. Only real downside is he has trouble keeping his defensive game simple, but that can be taught.

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Im sure a few Canuck fans will have issue with what I say here but the Sedins had the misfortune of being on the ice almost everytime Luongo had one of his brain cramps. The 3 he let in from behind the net, the Thorton give away, the Boston blow out, the Hawks blowout. If it was a matter of them getting outworked or getting caught trying to dangle the puck out of there own end then yes, id be worried. Being on the ice when a goalie lets a bad goal in is just bad luck and Luongo had his share of bad goals this post season.

Im not disappointed in finishing 2nd even though we were tops in the league in most categories. When was the last team that won the presidents trophy went on to win it all? It doesnt happen very often yet we came 1 game away from accomplishing it. We also had 24 games vs non playoff teams ( our entire division) so that will help the stats a bit. For me, the big test will come next year to see if they can learn from it like the Penguins did and get back to the finals.

So let's get down to brass tacks then. In regards to Luongo, what do the Canucks do with him now? Can the blame be placed on him for this post season failure? He is the 10 million dollar man and he proved that he could not be counted on when the chips were down. What do you do with a goalie like Lou? You can't keep going back to that well in the search for the cup and expect him to keep it all together next time. You simply can't rely on him to perform at a high level when it really counts. There are only so many next times before you will fade into oblivion for a few more years. What do the fans think. What do you think the management/coaching thinks about his future?

Also, how much blame will AV shoulder for the final series loss? Will Kesler take the C away from Henrik next year? He probably should. Between Henrick, AV and Lou, it seemed to be leadership issues on the backstretch that cost them.

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Just something I want to run past the Canuck fans. What would you think of either Hartnell or Carle for Schneider?

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So let's get down to brass tacks then. In regards to Luongo, what do the Canucks do with him now? Can the blame be placed on him for this post season failure? He is the 10 million dollar man and he proved that he could not be counted on when the chips were down. What do you do with a goalie like Lou? You can't keep going back to that well in the search for the cup and expect him to keep it all together next time. You simply can't rely on him to perform at a high level when it really counts. There are only so many next times before you will fade into oblivion for a few more years. What do the fans think. What do you think the management/coaching thinks about his future?

Also, how much blame will AV shoulder for the final series loss? Will Kesler take the C away from Henrik next year? He probably should. Between Henrick, AV and Lou, it seemed to be leadership issues on the backstretch that cost them.

not worried about luongo at all right now... if it wasn't for him, we wouldn't of made the final... or taken the last series to seven 7 gms.

i'm not in the 'we won 15 outta the 16 we needed In Spite of luongo' crowd... i'll let you guys perpetuate that nonsense.

He's still an elite goalie and was vindicated this yr about not being a playoff goalie... now its graduated to - "sure he may be vezina candidate, sure he can win you 3 rounds, and take a team to within a gm of the cup... but can he win you that last one? I'm not sure - therefore he's a useless waste of cap space"..

step by step...

he got 15 of em W's and stole a few along the way.... i think he'll be even better, hungrier next yr... i'll be expecting another vezina nod in 2012.

AV - which specific area do you think he should take a hit for? he was pretty masterful and taking little credit thru 3 rounds.. what didn't he do in the 4th round that should over shadow, cancel out and dismiss the success he had in winning the 3 three previous rounds? something only one other coach managed to do?

Record season, record run.. fire the coach?

Just ask yourself why is Sutter returning to behind the bench after the 2 missed playoffs he's led his team to... you may then realize coaches don't just get fired for sh**s and giggles...

He's a great fit, has done a great job, with outstanding results, with 2 Jack Adams nominations along the way... I think he'll be alright.

Kesler for the C? no... too emotional... one thing about this canuck team this season... they never got too high, never too low... just even keel - and just kept working and working no matter what... they brushed off poor gms lik they never happened and came strong... i think that directly reflects what the Sedins bring to the room.

i don't buy your leadership theory (not that you actually presented any type of discussion points for it).... please explain if you have any basis for your speculation...

Just something I want to run past the Canuck fans. What would you think of either Hartnell or Carle for Schneider?

dude, i'm open to anyone coming back for schneider that is young, has upside, and has a similar cheap high value contract.

Schneider offers us huge value in terms of contract value vs performance, and i would like to see that coming back in another high potential piece.

Hartnell at $4.2 - definitely not. Would be a fantastic dump for the Flyers tho.

considering the salary structure of our D, a $3.5 mil Carle makes little sense as well. Rather spend that to retain one of our own D in Bieksa and Ehrhoff.

Both are great dumps for the Flyers, so i see why you would suggest it...

but I would rather hold on to Schneider and benefit from having him play and give Luongo games off for another almost full yr and then trade him for whatever Gillis can get from whoever at the deadline, than to take back fat hindering contracts this summer.

Canuck have some space... but not for those kinda players.

But hey... i'm not Gillis!! who knows how things will proceed.

Philly is locked into $59 mil in contracts already... before Bryzgalov... f**ked. If i was a GM, i wouldn't be cutting them any breaks/gifts... I would be forcing value for value... Plus picks on top..

I don't think Philly has ANY leverage in any transaction they initiate this yr.. NONE.

They will have to overpay to move their salary... unless Holmgren has blackmail material on some poor chap... or some team owes him a favor for a previous transaction...

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not worried about luongo at all right now... if it wasn't for him, we wouldn't of made the final... or taken the last series to seven 7 gms.

I really don't think Schneider would've done any better. Luongo was outdone by Tim Thomas but there's only one Tim Thomas in the entire league. So to upgrade goaltending, you've got to go from Luongo to Tim Thomas, and no one is getting Tim Thomas out of Boston.

The only reason i think the Canucks should trade Luongo is to save salary and target a marquee #1 Dman or a bonafide forward to complement Kesler on the second line. But even without this, the Canucks should be a very competitive team next season.

AV - which specific area do you think he should take a hit for? he was pretty masterful and taking little credit thru 3 rounds.. what didn't he do in the 4th round that should over shadow, cancel out and dismiss the success he had in winning the 3 three previous rounds? something only one other coach managed to do?

I tend to agree here. I think the Sedins just simply failed to get the job done in the final round... the game plan was there and the preparation was solid. His players just didn't execute when they had scoring chances. Like for example, they had 3 glorious chances to open the scoring in game 7 and just couldn't beat Thomas.

Again, i think the loss of Samuelsson hurt the team a lot because no one was able to score with Kesler on the second line after that. They had to move Kesler to the top line which made the Canucks a one line team and easier to defend against.

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dude, i'm open to anyone coming back for schneider that is young, has upside, and has a similar cheap high value contract.

Schneider offers us huge value in terms of contract value vs performance, and i would like to see that coming back in another high potential piece.

Hartnell at $4.2 - definitely not. Would be a fantastic dump for the Flyers tho.

considering the salary structure of our D, a $3.5 mil Carle makes little sense as well. Rather spend that to retain one of our own D in Bieksa and Ehrhoff.

Both are great dumps for the Flyers, so i see why you would suggest it...

but I would rather hold on to Schneider and benefit from having him play and give Luongo games off for another almost full yr and then trade him for whatever Gillis can get from whoever at the deadline, than to take back fat hindering contracts this summer.

Canuck have some space... but not for those kinda players.

But hey... i'm not Gillis!! who knows how things will proceed.

Philly is locked into $59 mil in contracts already... before Bryzgalov... f**ked. If i was a GM, i wouldn't be cutting them any breaks/gifts... I would be forcing value for value... Plus picks on top..

I don't think Philly has ANY leverage in any transaction they initiate this yr.. NONE.

They will have to overpay to move their salary... unless Holmgren has blackmail material on some poor chap... or some team owes him a favor for a previous transaction...

I'm just looking for feedback.

I read a column today about the Canucks looking @ Leino to play with Kesler & thought Hartnell might be a good player to fill that line.

I thought of Carle to replace Salo as he's getting hurt more frequently. About the same price & better then what's available as a UFA.

What got me thinking on Schneider originally is because I just don't feel good about Bryz. He's been good in the regular season but that's not where our problem lies. Schneider has only relieved in the play-offs (1 start I think) but I'd rather take a chance with him then Bryz. Just my opinion.

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not worried about luongo at all right now... if it wasn't for him, we wouldn't of made the final... or taken the last series to seven 7 gms.

i'm not in the 'we won 15 outta the 16 we needed In Spite of luongo' crowd... i'll let you guys perpetuate that nonsense.

He's still an elite goalie and was vindicated this yr about not being a playoff goalie... now its graduated to - "sure he may be vezina candidate, sure he can win you 3 rounds, and take a team to within a gm of the cup... but can he win you that last one? I'm not sure - therefore he's a useless waste of cap space"..

step by step...

he got 15 of em W's and stole a few along the way.... i think he'll be even better, hungrier next yr... i'll be expecting another vezina nod in 2012.

AV - which specific area do you think he should take a hit for? he was pretty masterful and taking little credit thru 3 rounds.. what didn't he do in the 4th round that should over shadow, cancel out and dismiss the success he had in winning the 3 three previous rounds? something only one other coach managed to do?

Record season, record run.. fire the coach?

Just ask yourself why is Sutter returning to behind the bench after the 2 missed playoffs he's led his team to... you may then realize coaches don't just get fired for sh**s and giggles...

He's a great fit, has done a great job, with outstanding results, with 2 Jack Adams nominations along the way... I think he'll be alright.

Kesler for the C? no... too emotional... one thing about this canuck team this season... they never got too high, never too low... just even keel - and just kept working and working no matter what... they brushed off poor gms lik they never happened and came strong... i think that directly reflects what the Sedins bring to the room.

i don't buy your leadership theory (not that you actually presented any type of discussion points for it).... please explain if you have any basis for your speculation...

I'm surprised at your unwavering confidence in Luongo but good for you. I don't agree that he vindicated jack about being an elite playoff goalie. He played some really good games and some really weak games too with no apparent reasons other than possibly being weak mentally. I don't doubt his elite ability but his reliability does not justify anywhere near his cap hit and with a competent alternative on the sidelines, I was wondering if not just you DL, but the word on the street in Vancouver and within the team about the confidence in Luongo was waning. You can win the cup without a performance like Tim Thomas put but what are the Canucks paying him for?

I also believe that there was a general lack of focus and the attempt at executing their game plan in the end seemed to lack proper motivation and grit which is where i surmised there to be a leadership deficit. Whether it was AV, Henrick, Kesler or whoever else is looked at as leaders on that team and failed to rally the boys is what I was asking. Who do you think was leading the charge at the end? Was anyone leading anything?

I disagree that Kesler would make a poor choice for C because of his emotional nature. In fact, I feel that the lack of emotion shown when Marchant was playing punching bag with Daniel in game 6 may have had a profound affect on the team's confidence in their leadership and in their team's identity. Kesler would have wigged out a little at least, taken a penalty for sure and the team would have rallied behind him. Not only did Daniel do nothing (but complain to the ref), no one else did anything to stick up for him either and I think that is bad for any team.

Do you recall Hansen taking that cheap-shot penalty in the third (on Ference I think), as a retaliation for a high stick or something and then defiantly taking his time on his own bench before making a big show to the refs by showing his bloody lip pointing and beaking about a missed call that happened several plays ago. That to me was a show of mentally giving up on the disciplined execution of the game plan and at the time, the game was potentially within reach for a high octane offence like the Canucks have. I don't think that Hansen steps out of rank like that if the leadership is loud and strong keeping the team focused. Nobody stepped up to snap them out of their funk and push to the end. It looked like they gave up with several minutes left and in fact never really looked that good the whole game.

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