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Discussion & Debate Thread: Flames and Canucks

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I didnt see it that way at all...

The playoffs is war of attrition in which the Canucks came in second.... The bruins had more in the tank at the end of the series and were the better team.

It wasn't for a lack of anything... Their leadership was good enough to win them 3 rounds and take em within a game of the cup.

You are forgetting there are two teams out there and that other team had a significant say in the outcome of the game... They were quicker, cleaner with their play and earned a couple more bounces than the Canucks.

Nothing to be ashamed of... Nothing to be concerned about and nothing to suggest any type of upheaval is required... The team is right there... Very close to what it takes to skate Stanley around the rink..

I have some solid expectations for next yr.. Barring how the offseason works out personnel wise of course. They're set up pretty nicely right now.

We'll agree to disagree on the needs of the Canucks...

So how about your take on the other side of the discussion/debate?

If that's how you feel about a team that just about ran the table on hardware and the postseason with 3 rounds of wins... what do you expect to change in Cowtown from a team that's missed the dance 2 yrs in row?

I mean it looks like the Flames will be staying status quo... is that what you expected to see from a team that's been in the lottery for 2 yrs?

But yeah... the flames path was set by D Sutter, and is being dictated by the contracts he's signed and the cap space the flames have. But still... no accountability for the leadership core that's remained in tact for Zero post lockout playoff series wins?

I would say that the leadership core is still living off the goodwill attained from their 2004 run.. but... i think only Iginla and Regehr remain. Hell only Langkow, Iginla and Regehr remain from 05-06...

(outta curiosity - the only players remaining from the 07-08 - the 3 above plus Moss and Sarich -- 5 players remain from just 3 seasons ago... amazing turnover. But Van had just 9.)

I'm quite comfortable and ok with a president's/jenning's trophy winning team that won the western conference staying status quo..

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I'm just looking for feedback.

I read a column today about the Canucks looking @ Leino to play with Kesler & thought Hartnell might be a good player to fill that line.

I thought of Carle to replace Salo as he's getting hurt more frequently. About the same price & better then what's available as a UFA.

What got me thinking on Schneider originally is because I just don't feel good about Bryz. He's been good in the regular season but that's not where our problem lies. Schneider has only relieved in the play-offs (1 start I think) but I'd rather take a chance with him then Bryz. Just my opinion.

Leino! I hadn't heard that. obviously just internet speculation at this point since anything official would be tampering.

I like Lieno... modest regular season stats which will curtail his salary demands...

is still 27, so in his prime... but he was a playoff beast last yr.

He looked bad this yr on many goals against i was watching.

I took the side of the Philly goalies when they were getting thrashed for their play pointing out many of the goals were the fault of his team in front of him.... in making that case, Lieno was victimized a number of times defensively.

Didn't look healthy... definitely a shadow of how he looked the previous yr.

It definitely would look interesting to see Lieno on a line with Kesler and Raymond. Samuelsson down a line to the 3rd, bumping Lapierre and Hansen down to a 4th line. would be very good depth, with a legit 2nd line type player coming in. Interesting.

But my offseason treat would be Brooks Laich... but he'll be wanted by many...

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THN has an analysis of what they think both the Bruins & Canucks will do in the off season. Obviously no big changes for either.

Also, TSN reported the cap is going up to $64 million. Floor is 48.

That floor is going to put those financially unsteady teams on even shakier ground. Hello QC.

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THN has an analysis of what they think both the Bruins & Canucks will do in the off season. Obviously no big changes for either.

Also, TSN reported the cap is going up to $64 million. Floor is 48.

That floor is going to put those financially unsteady teams on even shakier ground. Hello QC.

The revenue sharing model is supposed to protect those shaky clubs from the rising cap floor. I don't expect poor clubs to suffer too much more than they already are due to the cap floor since they do get money kicked back to em... or are supposed to.

Cap rising does mean there is enough revenue being generated as a whole league to cover all salary. we'll see tho.

When's QC's stadium to be completed?

And looking at Boston's salary structure... they are as set as any team can be going into next season... They got probably a single big hole to fill... and that Recchi's spot on the second line beside Bergeron-Marchand. They will be set to make a another run next yr....

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So let's get down to brass tacks then. In regards to Luongo, what do the Canucks do with him now? Can the blame be placed on him for this post season failure? He is the 10 million dollar man and he proved that he could not be counted on when the chips were down. What do you do with a goalie like Lou? You can't keep going back to that well in the search for the cup and expect him to keep it all together next time. You simply can't rely on him to perform at a high level when it really counts. There are only so many next times before you will fade into oblivion for a few more years. What do the fans think. What do you think the management/coaching thinks about his future?

Also, how much blame will AV shoulder for the final series loss? Will Kesler take the C away from Henrik next year? He probably should. Between Henrick, AV and Lou, it seemed to be leadership issues on the backstretch that cost them.

Those 2 questions are probably what have canuck fans split right now. There are positives/negatives and cases for/against for both of them. When I have more time to write I will go further into it and give my honest opinion

As far as Kesler getting the C, I see no reason for it. To be honest the whole 'who has what letter' is overrated. When Sundin came to Vancouver he didnt wear a letter yet every canuck raved about his leadership. Staios was brought in for leadership but he didnt have a letter. Considering Henrik was hurt, he still was 2nd in playoff scoring and led his team to a game 7 in the finals. He handled the media extremely well I thought and wouldnt dodge any question. Its gonna look alot more sillier if we have our 4th captain in 4 years.

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Just something I want to run past the Canuck fans. What would you think of either Hartnell or Carle for Schneider?

Rumour is that Colorado offered Stewart to Vancouver for Schnieder before they dealt him to the Blues. . .

Both those players you mentioned are decent but we dont really have a need for Carle unless we arent able to sign Bieksa and Ehrhoff. Losing 1 could be managable because Tanev looks like he ready for a regular spot.

Hartnell is intriguing because he is a better version of Torres but his price tag may be a bit too much.

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I'm just looking for feedback.

I read a column today about the Canucks looking @ Leino to play with Kesler & thought Hartnell might be a good player to fill that line.

I thought of Carle to replace Salo as he's getting hurt more frequently. About the same price & better then what's available as a UFA.

What got me thinking on Schneider originally is because I just don't feel good about Bryz. He's been good in the regular season but that's not where our problem lies. Schneider has only relieved in the play-offs (1 start I think) but I'd rather take a chance with him then Bryz. Just my opinion.

I would love it if the Canucks got Leino and Carle. Both guys are soft as crap. Carle is the type of Dmen you can just skate around and he won't play you physically. Not that Salo is that tough but he's a veteran presense at the very least. Carle sucks. Think Ballard.

Leino to me is no different than Chris Higgins.

As far as Schneider vs Bryz, there's no contest. Bryzgalov is better. He didn't want to be in Phoenix because of the Winnipeg rumours and he played like he didn't want to be there during the playoffs. I have no doubt he'll give his best in Philly.

With Schneider, you're looking at something that resembles a Ryan Miller down the road but who knows when. Philly wants to win now, not 5 years from now. I'm also shocked the Canucks didn't pull the trigger on a Schneider for Stewart deal, assuming it was there for the taking. That's insane. Stewart would have been the perfect fit for Kesler on the second line and surely would've brought home the Cup for the Canucks. I was quite adamant the Canucks should have made a move at the deadline because who knows when they'll get back to the big dance again. Stewart was one of those trades i'm talking about. I mean, did the Canucks really need Schneider for 1 start and 2 games in relief over a Chris Stewart? Did the Canucks really need Hodgson who was benched?

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^easy tiger... that's hardly based on any hard evidence... at all!

I don't see ANY way Colorado would of offered Stewart (within their division) for a Schneider... do you?

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^easy tiger... that's hardly based on any hard evidence... at all!

I don't see ANY way Colorado would of offered Stewart (within their division) for a Schneider... do you?

Honestly, i agree. Stewart wouldn't have gotten it done. It would've been Stewart AND Shattenkirk for Schneider. The Avs were a team who had given up on Craig Anderson and settled for Erik Johnson as they headed toward a new direction. No question they wanted to replace Anderson. I mean, Brian Elliot from Ottawa from desperation at its finest. For a team who is desperate for a new starting goalie, would you take Johnson or Schneider?

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Honestly, i agree. Stewart wouldn't have gotten it done. It would've been Stewart AND Shattenkirk for Schneider. The Avs were a team who had given up on Craig Anderson and settled for Erik Johnson as they headed toward a new direction. No question they wanted to replace Anderson. I mean, Brian Elliot from Ottawa from desperation at its finest. For a team who is desperate for a new starting goalie, would you take Johnson or Schneider?

207_not_sure_if_serious.jpg

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207_not_sure_if_serious.jpg

I think peeps was referring to how terrible those two trades were for the Avs. I spent a lot of that week laughing my face off, let me tell you.

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I think peeps was referring to how terrible those two trades were for the Avs. I spent a lot of that week laughing my face off, let me tell you.

Well, it's too late to trade Schneider now because the Canucks need that security in case Luongo falters again. I think they should go into next season with both guys in net and have a very short lease on Luongo's neck, especially early. It might cause a goaltending controversy but that will also create the perfect excuse to start Schneider next playoffs.

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Too early to bet the farm on but it looks like the Canucks have a decent find in Eddie Lack. He played big minutes & put up very good #s in his 1st year in the NHL. He's big, 23 & put up good #s in the Swedish league. If he does as well this season the 'Nucks could rely on him as backup & trade Cory to fill weaknesses.

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Too early to bet the farm on but it looks like the Canucks have a decent find in Eddie Lack. He played big minutes & put up very good #s in his 1st year in the NHL. He's big, 23 & put up good #s in the Swedish league. If he does as well this season the 'Nucks could rely on him as backup & trade Cory to fill weaknesses.

That's the plan for possibly the yr after next... Depends on the Canucks long term plans for Schneider.

Well, it's too late to trade Schneider now because the Canucks need that security in case Luongo falters again. I think they should go into next season with both guys in net and have a very short lease on Luongo's neck, especially early. It might cause a goaltending controversy but that will also create the perfect excuse to start Schneider next playoffs.

Pretty laughable that you think Luongo will falter in the regular season at all...

The guy has probably been the most consistent goalie in the league since the lockout.

Many have had great yrs, and fallen back... But Luongo has been top 5 all along.

Wishful thinking flames fan.

Don't get me wrong... I know where the second guessing is coming from.... And I understand it... But completely lacks foresight or actual big picture perspective of the caliber of player Luongo is because of the logo on his jersey.

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That's the plan for possibly the yr after next... Depends on the Canucks long term plans for Schneider.

It's too bad Lack wasn't signed by the Moose rather then Vancouver. Then he'd be a TN asset.

I'm not sure if he was another Zinger discovery or if the Canuck scouts in Europe found him. I lean towards the latter as Zinger's finds were done looking for good players that were passed over in the entry draft that were playing in minor NA leagues.

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Congrats to Mike Gillis for winning the GM of the Year Award!

Well earned.... esspecially considering Luongo was a product of the D, Kesler scored because of the PP, and Sedin only scored because of the other Sedin, Ehrhoff and the other D scoring because of the PP.. with no one leading the way the way on the ice... surely Gillis must be deserving.

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Daniel Sedin for the Ted Lindsey Award!!!

As voted by the players awarded annually to the National Hockey League's Most Outstanding Player in the regular season...

What a sweet accolade! Good on him! got one his brother doesn't have...

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FANATASTIC conclusion to the 2010-2011 season for the Canucks....

A lot of hardware they'll be proud of one day after the sting of gm 7 wears off....

Ryan Kesler - The Selke

Daniel - Ted Lindsey

Gillis - GM of the Year

to go along with..

The Jennings

The President's Trophy

Daniels' Art Ross

trophy_frankjselkelg.jpgtrophy_lesterbpearsonlg.jpgtrophy_presidentslg.jpgtrophy_jenningslg.jpgtrophy_artrosslg.jpg

And i couldn't find a pic of the GM of the Yr award.... so here's the face - 2ce1bf3354n_1663.jpg-150x104.jpg

Along with being finalists:

Daniel for the Hart

Luongo for the Vezina

AV for the Jack Adams

Daniel and Henrik for the NHL Foundation award

Daniel and Kesler 4th for the Richard

Amazing year for the canucks as they can put up a bunch of silverware in their trophy case and forget about after the summer...

the focus will be on the one that remains.....

trophy_stanleycuplg.jpg

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Hey remember those player comparisons that used to go in here? How about Tanev vs Carson? Both guys look poised to play a 5/6 spot this season, is it a fair comparison?

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Hey remember those player comparisons that used to go in here? How about Tanev vs Carson? Both guys look poised to play a 5/6 spot this season, is it a fair comparison?

Don't know much at all about Carson...

I'll do Tanev -

Tanev is a 21 yr old youngster with a massive amount of poise well beyond his yrs. Shuffled ahead of Ballard on the depth chart legitimately during the playoffs - he was that good (or Ballard was that bad - turnovers).

Earned AV's trust by making the smart play, and played low risk with the puck - turnovers.

Was able to be effective because of his good skating ability. got to loose pucks and made good plays. Good first pass, and decent vision as seen in the SCF when he set up Glass for an open net goal, only to see Glass pull a 4th liner type move and fan on his shot.

Upside is exciting as hell.

Needs to physically fill out still.

Expectations for next yr... may be a high value fill on D, unless Gillis adds depth that would push him down to the minors. He's has lots of time to develop, but is obviously pretty much NHL ready right now. Just needs a few more pounds which will come.

go ahead and break down Carson's game..

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Carson is a stay-at-home defenseman who always makes the safe play. Flames forwards were raving about his ability to connect the first pass out of the zone, in spite of the fact that he only played 6 games. Had no points last season, but possessed a +7 rating (it was +9 until the last game of the year). Has a big body, is fairly young (I believe he's 25) and is a decent skater. Not flashy, but handles the puck well. Very limited offensive side, though it could be improved a little with experience. I'm very excited at the prospect of Carson being paired with Brodie next season. That would maybe be the best situation for Brodie, as Carson is so reliable defensively, and Sarich has created such a good partnership with Giordano.

Watching Tanev in the playoffs, I'm willing to venture that he's a better player than Carson. He has more upside anyway, but Carson should not be underestimated either.

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Don't know much at all about Carson...

I'll do Tanev -

Tanev is a 21 yr old youngster with a massive amount of poise well beyond his yrs. Shuffled ahead of Ballard on the depth chart legitimately during the playoffs - he was that good (or Ballard was that bad - turnovers).

Earned AV's trust by making the smart play, and played low risk with the puck - turnovers.

Was able to be effective because of his good skating ability. got to loose pucks and made good plays. Good first pass, and decent vision as seen in the SCF when he set up Glass for an open net goal, only to see Glass pull a 4th liner type move and fan on his shot.

Upside is exciting as hell.

Needs to physically fill out still.

Expectations for next yr... may be a high value fill on D, unless Gillis adds depth that would push him down to the minors. He's has lots of time to develop, but is obviously pretty much NHL ready right now. Just needs a few more pounds which will come.

go ahead and break down Carson's game..

Carson is a young and solid Dman. Expectations are similar to that of which you seek from Tanev except I believe Carson has a much brighter upside than Tanev. Carson has more NHL experience, is quicker, bigger and stronger than Tanev. I would think to compare him more of someone of like Dan Hamhuis on Vancouver's roster except we don't need to pay him the same amount of money that the injury prone Hamhuis is making.

All in all Carson >>> Tanev IMO

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^easy tiger... that's hardly based on any hard evidence... at all!

I don't see ANY way Colorado would of offered Stewart (within their division) for a Schneider... do you?

I dont see why not.... The Avs have a history of making big trades with Calgary so why not Vancouver ?

http://www.vancouversun.com/sports/Canucks+puck+stops+here/4425515/story.html

General manager Mike Gillis rightly resisted the temptation to trade Schneider last week for a young power forward with impact potential who could help the Canucks in the playoffs.

Colorado was desperate to trade Stewart because of internal issues with him and were on the hunt for a goalie.

*edit

just came across this rumor...

@renhockey (Retweeted by @TEAM1040) Avalanche wants to trade pick 11th in the first round. Talking to Vancouver for Schneider and Los Angeles for Bernier.

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