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Discussion & Debate Thread: Flames and Canucks

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Carson is a young and solid Dman. Expectations are similar to that of which you seek from Tanev except I believe Carson has a much brighter upside than Tanev. Carson has more NHL experience, is quicker, bigger and stronger than Tanev. I would think to compare him more of someone of like Dan Hamhuis on Vancouver's roster except we don't need to pay him the same amount of money that the injury prone Hamhuis is making.

All in all Carson >>> Tanev IMO

Wow, Derf... you're pretty high on Carson.

Can't disagree with anything else you said tho... except the upside part.

The only thing i'll say is based on age alone i don't think that Carson having a greater upside than Tanev holds water.

Doesn't make sense if you hold the same level of expectations for 25 yr old as you do a 21 yr old and then claim they have a brighter upside when they are so much closer to their developmental peak... and considering what Carson has done so far in his NHL career - he's been in and out of league for 3 yrs already and hasn't stuck yet.

Carson is a lot closer to "what you see is what you get" than Tanev is.

But obviously, if what you have is already another Hamhuis only faster and bigger... then that's one hell of a player. But why would such a player have the same expectations as a 21 yr who may or may not make the team? Something doesn't add up... please explain.

Anyways...

Tale of the tape:

Carson, Drafted 4th round, 109th, 2004 Carolina

25 yrs old, 6'4, 210

273 career AHL games.

78 career NHL games.

Tanev, Undrafted

21 yrs old, 6'2, 200

53 career AHL games.

34 career NHL games.

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Wow, Derf... you're pretty high on Carson.

Can't disagree with anything else you said tho... except the upside part.

The only thing i'll say is based on age alone i don't think that Carson having a greater upside than Tanev holds water.

Doesn't make sense if you hold the same level of expectations for 25 yr old as you do a 21 yr old and then claim they have a brighter upside when they are so much closer to their developmental peak... and considering what Carson has done so far in his NHL career - he's been in and out of league for 3 yrs already and hasn't stuck yet.

Carson is a lot closer to "what you see is what you get" than Tanev is.

But obviously, if what you have is already another Hamhuis only faster and bigger... then that's one hell of a player. But why would such a player have the same expectations as a 21 yr who may or may not make the team? Something doesn't add up... please explain.

Anyways...

Tale of the tape:

Carson, Drafted 4th round, 109th, 2004 Carolina

25 yrs old, 6'4, 210

273 career AHL games.

78 career NHL games.

Tanev, Undrafted

21 yrs old, 6'2, 200

53 career AHL games.

34 career NHL games.

Age is nothing but a number. I'll use Tim Thomas as an example as a late bloomer on top of that you got to know DL that a prime for a good defenceman is usually later in their 30-35s. Take Lidstrom as an example of that. Playing good D takes a lot more time than being an offensive forward. I don't know why that is but in overall history of this game - the fact that Dman's primes are later in the career holds true.

I see nothing but upside with Carson - He's put in the hard work at get where he is. Don't knock him cause he's played a few more games in the Minors. He needed time to develope. He's already showing signs of his upside potential in the few games he's played with Calgary.

But honestly I'm not that high on Carson. He's going to be a solid 5th - 6th defenceman in our deep defensive core sometime shortly but other than that, he'll be solid in my opinion. Not make too many mistakes, probably turn out a good +20-30 at the end of next season scoring 10goals / 20-25 assist. Good value defenceman that brings out the same qualities as someone like Dan Hamhuis in Vancouver's roster without Hamhuis cap hit.

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Age is nothing but a number. I'll use Tim Thomas as an example as a late bloomer on top of that you got to know DL that a prime for a good defenceman is usually later in their 30-35s. Take Lidstrom as an example of that. Playing good D takes a lot more time than being an offensive forward. I don't know why that is but in overall history of this game - the fact that Dman's primes are later in the career holds true.

That's all fine and i would agree that a D hits his prime later than forwards....

all i was saying was Tanev has 4 yrs on Carson... i.e. 4 more yrs to reach the same age as Carson is right now... i.e. in 4 yrs i'm pretty confident that Tanev will be a NHL regular by the time he's the same as Carson, whereas Carson has yet to nail down a regular NHL job... i.e. will have had achieved a higher ceiling at the same age.

I see nothing but upside with Carson - He's put in the hard work at get where he is. Don't knock him cause he's played a few more games in the Minors. He needed time to develope. He's already showing signs of his upside potential in the few games he's played with Calgary.

But honestly I'm not that high on Carson. He's going to be a solid 5th - 6th defenceman in our deep defensive core sometime shortly but other than that, he'll be solid in my opinion. Not make too many mistakes, probably turn out a good +20-30 at the end of next season scoring 10goals / 20-25 assist. Good value defenceman that brings out the same qualities as someone like Dan Hamhuis in Vancouver's roster without Hamhuis cap hit.

You are confusing... or confused... but i'll give ya a chance to clarify yourself..

- first you say you see nothing but upside, he's showing signs of his potential...

- then you say you are NOT that high on him, and that he'll be a solid 5t/6th Dman

- and then you casually predict he'll be amongst the league leaders in plus/minus, has the same attributes as Hamhius.

??

So which is it... are you confused? or are you just making things up?

I'm starting to assume you're just making things up as you type... but i'll give ya the benefit of the doubt here and let ya explain...

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That's all fine and i would agree that a D hits his prime later than forwards....

all i was saying was Tanev has 4 yrs on Carson... i.e. 4 more yrs to reach the same age as Carson is right now... i.e. in 4 yrs i'm pretty confident that Tanev will be a NHL regular by the time he's the same as Carson, whereas Carson has yet to nail down a regular NHL job... i.e. will have had achieved a higher ceiling at the same age.

I watched Tanev play in the SCF and he was actually too passive. There were times when he should carry the puck and he passes it and other times he had a good chance with a shot on net and he passes it. In these areas, Carson surpasses Tanev by a mile.

You are confusing... or confused... but i'll give ya a chance to clarify yourself..

- first you say you see nothing but upside, he's showing signs of his potential...

- then you say you are NOT that high on him, and that he'll be a solid 5t/6th Dman

- and then you casually predict he'll be amongst the league leaders in plus/minus, has the same attributes as Hamhius.

??

So which is it... are you confused? or are you just making things up?

I'm starting to assume you're just making things up as you type... but i'll give ya the benefit of the doubt here and let ya explain...

I do see nothing but upside with Carson, He's got great pride in keeping pucks out of his defensive zone and out of Kippers net. Something very similar to Hamhius role on the Canucks. The only thing is Calgary's Dcore is so much more deeper than Vancouver's that Carson will likely only slot in as a 5th or 6th defenceman. I mean if we didn't have Gio, JayBo, Sarich or Reggie, Carson would likely slot in higher. Canucks have a less deep of a D core which means Tanev is able to jump into the 4th or 5th spot easier taking out Ballard(who is horrible) and Rome(No puck skills - can only score on empty nets) and/or Albert(Super Slow). And with the loss of Bieksa and possibly Erhoff, maybe Tanev can slot in as your top 2 Dman - That would be a joke of a defensive core for Canucks.

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that was actually a fun exercise.

I'm glad you see now that Tanev <<< Carson.

Once I mention the true evidence, it is hard to debate with the truth.

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I'm glad you see now that Tanev <<< Carson.

Once I mention the true evidence, it is hard to debate with the truth.

exactly agree.

I have never seen Carson play... (well apparently i did watch him play a game, but didn't notice him when the Canucks beat the flames the last game of the season when he was -2..)

But i'm now really excited to watch this guy play now!

Sounds like you guys got quite the gem. AND he's locked in at $575K for TWO more seasons!

I'm expecting big things... especially now that i know he's 3 arrows better than Tanev.

We may get to see these kids face off as soon as Nov 1st.. unless there's a preseason gm or 2 in there...

Canucks - Flames head-to-head schedule:

Nov 1st Canucks @ Flames

Dec 4th Flames @ Canucks

Dec 23rd Flames @ Canucks

Feb 11th Canucks @ Flames

Mar 31st Flames @ Canucks

Apr 5th Canucks @ Flames

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exactly agree.

I have never seen Carson play... (well apparently i did watch him play a game, but didn't notice him when the Canucks beat the flames the last game of the season when he was -2..)

But i'm now really excited to watch this guy play now!

Sounds like you guys got quite the gem. AND he's locked in at $575K for TWO more seasons!

I'm expecting big things... especially now that i know he's 3 arrows better than Tanev.

We may get to see these kids face off as soon as Nov 1st.. unless there's a preseason gm or 2 in there...

Canucks - Flames head-to-head schedule:

Nov 1st Canucks @ Flames

Dec 4th Flames @ Canucks

Dec 23rd Flames @ Canucks

Feb 11th Canucks @ Flames

Mar 31st Flames @ Canucks

Apr 5th Canucks @ Flames

I wouldn't put too much weight on the pre-seasoners, but forsure I'll be looking forward to those 6 games. I'm sure Flames will be winning the regular season series, unless the Canucks start pulling the diving, biting and the classless rioting they did the whole 2010-2011 season. Biggest embarrassment to the history of hockey.

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I wouldn't put too much weight on the pre-seasoners, but forsure I'll be looking forward to those 6 games. I'm sure Flames will be winning the regular season series, unless the Canucks start pulling the diving, biting and the classless rioting they did the whole 2010-2011 season. Biggest embarrassment to the history of hockey.

Canucks went 5-0-1 last yr... Flames can only improve right.

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Sedin - Sedin - Burrows

Raymond - Kesler - Samuelsson

X - Malhotra - X

X - X - X / X, X

Bieksa, Hamhuis, Edler, Rome, Tanev, X, X

Luongo, Schneider

$50.3 million committed on the above players. (14)

RFAs - Hansen, Lapierre

Key UFAs - Salo, Torres, Higgens

Potential AHL fill - Hodgson(1.7), Parent(900K), Oreskovich(min).

$14 mil to re-sign, promote and/or upgrade. Sitting pretty good right now.

Say 9 positions... 4 probably around min wage (say 600K), and also leave 1.5mil of cap space (injury and upgrades later on)= ~ $10 mil to sign 5 players. if one is Hodgson (1.7mil), looking at room for 4 players for around $8.4 mil. 2 of those players are RFAs Hansen and Lapierre, say 1.5 each..

Leaves realistically ~$5mil room for 1 depth D(like Alberts) and 1 forward (like Torres/Higgens)...

Since one priority is a top 6 forward of some sort... salary could be prioritized, and the extra money for a Torres-type depth piece shifted to upgrade towards such a piece... i.e take that $5mil and spit it $4 mil (Laich-like) and $1 mil (Alberts-like)

Options are there, and flexibility is there...

(this is why i loved the way the Canucks set up for this yr better than last yr)

THIS will be the yr Gillis' proves his worth...

==============================

So here's what all that verbal diarrhea looks like:

Here's the Potential salary structure of the pieces required:

Sedin - Sedin - Burrows

Raymond - Kesler - Laich($4mil)

Samuelsson - Malhotra - Hansen (1.5)

Higgens/Hodgson/Torres (1.7) - Lappierre(1.5) - Oreskovich (600K)/ (600K)/(600K)

Bieksa - Hamhius

Edler - Ballard

Tanev (900K) - Rome / Alberts-like ($1mil)/ (600K)

Luongo, Schneider...

That equals about $63.7 with 24 players.

Scratch one, and you have your cap space cushion.

Now we wait and see what warm bodies fill the slots up for grabs...

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Canucks went 5-0-1 last yr... Flames can only improve right.

I guess if Canucks cheat and dive the way they did all year last year and playoffs, that record is invalid. If the Canucks just try and play real hockey they would be 0-6-0 against the Flames this year - I guarantee it. Sig Bet DL???

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Sedin - Sedin - Burrows

Raymond - Kesler - Samuelsson

X - Malhotra - X

X - X - X / X, X

Bieksa, Hamhuis, Edler, Rome, Tanev, X, X

Luongo, Schneider

$50.3 million committed on the above players. (14)

RFAs - Hansen, Lapierre

Key UFAs - Salo, Torres, Higgens

Potential AHL fill - Hodgson(1.7), Parent(900K), Oreskovich(min).

$14 mil to re-sign, promote and/or upgrade. Sitting pretty good right now.

Say 9 positions... 4 probably around min wage (say 600K), and also leave 1.5mil of cap space (injury and upgrades later on)= ~ $10 mil to sign 5 players. if one is Hodgson (1.7mil), looking at room for 4 players for around $8.4 mil. 2 of those players are RFAs Hansen and Lapierre, say 1.5 each..

Leaves realistically ~$5mil room for 1 depth D(like Alberts) and 1 forward (like Torres/Higgens)...

Since one priority is a top 6 forward of some sort... salary could be prioritized, and the extra money for a Torres-type depth piece shifted to upgrade towards such a piece... i.e take that $5mil and spit it $4 mil (Laich-like) and $1 mil (Alberts-like)

Options are there, and flexibility is there...

(this is why i loved the way the Canucks set up for this yr better than last yr)

THIS will be the yr Gillis' proves his worth...

==============================

So here's what all that verbal diarrhea looks like:

Here's the Potential salary structure of the pieces required:

Sedin - Sedin - Burrows

Raymond - Kesler - Laich($4mil)

Samuelsson - Malhotra - Hansen (1.5)

Higgens/Hodgson/Torres (1.7) - Lappierre(1.5) - Oreskovich (600K)/ (600K)/(600K)

Bieksa - Hamhius

Edler - Ballard

Tanev (900K) - Rome / Alberts-like ($1mil)/ (600K)

Luongo, Schneider...

That equals about $63.7 with 24 players.

Scratch one, and you have your cap space cushion.

Now we wait and see what warm bodies fill the slots up for grabs...

That's a weak depleted Canucks roster

Sedin - Sedin - Burrows (2 Grammy Acting Divers + 1 Finger Biting Frenchie)

Raymond - Kesler - Laich($4mil) (Injury Prone + Soft push over player + Laich(as if he would come to a rioting city))

Samuelsson - Malhotra - Hansen (1.5) (Old man + One eye'd + No talent)

Higgens/Hodgson/Torres (1.7) - Lappierre(1.5) - Oreskovich (600K)/ (600K)/(600K) (weak + Weak + Weak)

Bieksa - Hamhius (Over-rated + Injury Prone)

Edler - Ballard (Slow Slug + LOL too horrible to dress in playoffs)

Tanev (900K) - Rome / Alberts-like ($1mil)/ (600K) (Career Minor League'r + Mr Can't Shoot)

Luongo, Schneider... (Two goalies who can't play playoff hockey - Spread their legs and let in Kajillion goals tandem)

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That's a weak depleted Canucks roster

Sedin - Sedin - Burrows (2 Grammy Acting Divers + 1 Finger Biting Frenchie)

Raymond - Kesler - Laich($4mil) (Injury Prone + Soft push over player + Laich(as if he would come to a rioting city))

Samuelsson - Malhotra - Hansen (1.5) (Old man + One eye'd + No talent)

Higgens/Hodgson/Torres (1.7) - Lappierre(1.5) - Oreskovich (600K)/ (600K)/(600K) (weak + Weak + Weak)

Bieksa - Hamhius (Over-rated + Injury Prone)

Edler - Ballard (Slow Slug + LOL too horrible to dress in playoffs)

Tanev (900K) - Rome / Alberts-like ($1mil)/ (600K) (Career Minor League'r + Mr Can't Shoot)

Luongo, Schneider... (Two goalies who can't play playoff hockey - Spread their legs and let in Kajillion goals tandem)

Since this is a debate thread between the Flames and Canucks.. feel free to post your potential cup contending roster and cap space please.

Shirley you think it looks better.

I guess if Canucks cheat and dive the way they did all year last year and playoffs, that record is invalid. If the Canucks just try and play real hockey they would be 0-6-0 against the Flames this year - I guarantee it. Sig Bet DL???

lay out bet parameters and i'll see

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Edit: Lapierre signed a 2yr deal worth $2mil/yr! Great news. I expect Hansen to follow suit in the 1.1-1.4 mil range...

Another piece falls into place...

Sedin - Sedin - Burrows

Raymond - Kesler - X (Laich-like)

Samuelsson - Malhotra - Hansen (1.2)

X (Torres-type) - Lapierre (1) - (Oreskovich 600K) / (600K)

Bieksa, Hamhuis, Edler, Ballard, Rome, Tanev, X (Salo-type), X (Alberts-like)

Luongo, Schneider

$52.2 million committed on the above players. (15)

Oreskovich and Hansen to follow shortly... 2 more players expected to be locked in for about 1.7mil (revised based on the qualifying offers and what Lapierre signed for).

Hodgson (1.7) up till Raymond returns .

Leaving about 4 spots to fill with about $8.7 mil.

2 more at around 600K.. leaving about 1 mil for cap room.

so 2 spots at around $6.5..

Room for Salo in for 1.5 - 2 mil.

Good signing and for 2 yrs.

The picture for the Canucks looks even better now.

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FANATASTIC conclusion to the 2010-2011 season for the Canucks....

A lot of hardware they'll be proud of one day after the sting of gm 7 wears off....

Ryan Kesler - The Selke

Daniel - Ted Lindsey

Gillis - GM of the Year

to go along with..

The Jennings

The President's Trophy

Daniels' Art Ross

trophy_frankjselkelg.jpgtrophy_lesterbpearsonlg.jpgtrophy_presidentslg.jpgtrophy_jenningslg.jpgtrophy_artrosslg.jpg

And i couldn't find a pic of the GM of the Yr award.... so here's the face - 2ce1bf3354n_1663.jpg-150x104.jpg

Along with being finalists:

Daniel for the Hart

Luongo for the Vezina

AV for the Jack Adams

Daniel and Henrik for the NHL Foundation award

Daniel and Kesler 4th for the Richard

Amazing year for the canucks as they can put up a bunch of silverware in their trophy case and forget about after the summer...

the focus will be on the one that remains.....

trophy_stanleycuplg.jpg

ahhhhhhhhhhhhh. Thanks DL! Almost forgot just how good the Nucks where last year and a couple of weeks in Mexico might just do that ;) Now on to next year..... :wub: the signings so far! All i hope is the Nucks lock up Hansen and Torres! Let the rest of the chips fall where they may....Gillis will improve this team via. trade. Raymomd,Schneider,Ballard or Hodgson will bring a couple of big wingers to Vancouver to play with Kesler -_- 2011 was close but 2012,2013,2014 and 2015 should be very good years (if your a Nucks fan) :D Nov.1 Flames fans is the true test! Lets just hope your not out of it by then ;)

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Since this is a debate thread between the Flames and Canucks.. feel free to post your potential cup contending roster and cap space please.

Shirley you think it looks better.

lay out bet parameters and i'll see

The Calgary Flames roster is a potential cup winning roster. Enough said.

Well hard to lay out the parameters since the Canucks dive and cheat every single game. So I don't think there will ever be a fair bet against the Canucks since they enjoy diving so much.

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The Calgary Flames roster is a potential cup winning roster. Enough said.

If Calgary is, then i guess so is Edmonton and Toronto and the Islanders and Winnipeg.

Well hard to lay out the parameters since the Canucks dive and cheat every single game. So I don't think there will ever be a fair bet against the Canucks since they enjoy diving so much.

That's what i thought.

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If Calgary is, then i guess so is Edmonton and Toronto and the Islanders and Winnipeg.

That's what i thought.

Well just look at our roster, it's so much more solid, deep, talented and stronger than the rest of the NHL teams. Our Dcore took a huge huge hit losing Reggie but our prospect Carson and Brodie will be the next top of the line Dman.

Thank you for finally agreeing with me. I knew you could see the Canucks Diving is just ridiculous.

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Well just look at our roster, it's so much more solid, deep, talented and stronger than the rest of the NHL teams. Our Dcore took a huge huge hit losing Reggie but our prospect Carson and Brodie will be the next top of the line Dman.

Thank you for finally agreeing with me. I knew you could see the Canucks Diving is just ridiculous.

I actually totally disagree with you...

because the flames don't dive or bite or do whatever it takes to win, they will never make the playoffs and never contend for the cup since they don't seem to care enough. Too worried about playing with class and honor instead of getting PPs and Wins.

The canucks proved this yr that they can and will do anything it takes, and they were one win away for winning the cup.

Therefore the Canucks >> Flames.

Flames won't make the playoffs this yr.

Canucks are contenders for the cup this yr.

Flames are contenders for the lottery.

Lapierre and Burrows and Kesler are the faces and teeth of a potential champion... and the twins have dove to 2 Art Ross Trophies, a Hart and Lindsey, Jennings, and President's trophy... and they will keep diving next yr as well because that's how bad they want it all.

Iginla will atleast be classy and honorable in defeat. And the Flame will honorably pick another classy player in the lottery.

that was fun

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I actually totally disagree with you...

because the flames don't dive or bite or do whatever it takes to win, they will never make the playoffs and never contend for the cup.

The canucks proved this yr that they do, and they were one win away for winning the cup.

Therefore the Canucks >> Flames.

Flames won't make the playoffs.

Canucks are contenders for the cup this yr.

Flames are contenders for the lottery.

Lapierre and Burrows and Kesler are the faces and teeth of a potential champion.

Iginla will atleast be classy and honorable in defeat.

Seriously DL, what are you smoking??? The crack must make you hallucinate. The Flames play the game admirably and with respect of other players. The Canucks do not, as seen from the whole 2010-2011 season including the playoffs. Seriously who bites another players finger??? Who dives every game in and game out. Who has no respect and hits players to heads. All the answer of these are only from the Canucks players.

Yes you are correct that the Canucks are one win from the cup last season, but really come on. Diving and cheating all the way to the finals don't even count in the face of the NHL. Ask any real hockey fan, and they'll tell you that Canucks are nothing but a classless team and belong on the bottom of the league if it wasn't for their antics.

Calgary is way more Classy than Vancouver. We don't trash our city even though we lost game 7 to Tampa. You guys are nothing short of being in the special schools for low IQ human beings.

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Seriously DL, what are you smoking??? The crack must make you hallucinate. The Flames play the game admirably and with respect of other players. The Canucks do not, as seen from the whole 2010-2011 season including the playoffs. Seriously who bites another players finger??? Who dives every game in and game out. Who has no respect and hits players to heads. All the answer of these are only from the Canucks players.

Yes you are correct that the Canucks are one win from the cup last season, but really come on. Diving and cheating all the way to the finals don't even count in the face of the NHL. Ask any real hockey fan, and they'll tell you that Canucks are nothing but a classless team and belong on the bottom of the league if it wasn't for their antics.

Calgary is way more Classy than Vancouver. We don't trash our city even though we lost game 7 to Tampa. You guys are nothing short of being in the special schools for low IQ human beings.

I totally agree with you. 100%

But last yr showed playing classless, reckless hockey without the respect of the NHL or its fans wins hockey games. Diving and cheating and biting wins games and got the team into the playoffs and won them games all the way to the cup final.

Flames played admirably and had the respect of other players and teams, but they continued to lose. Last season showed playing with Class like calgary did does NOT win games. They did not make the playoffs AGAIN. It's like the teams Calgary played were like "wow, these flames guys are classy as hell... now let's whoop on them for 60 minutes!"

Maybe its because my IQ is low, but my team keeps winning without class while yours is losing with class. I'll take the winning... you take the class and honor. Canucks > Flames

My apologizes to other flames fans who aren't finding this funny as hell...

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I totally agree with you. 100%

But last yr showed playing classless, reckless hockey without the respect of the NHL or its fans wins hockey games. Diving and cheating wins games and got the team into the playoffs and won them games all the way to the cup.

Flames played admirably and had the respect of other players and teams, but they continued to lose. Last season showed playing with Class like calgary did does NOT win games. The did not make the playoffs AGAIN.

Maybe its because my IQ is low, but my team keeps winning without class while yours is losing with class. I'll take the winning... you take the class and honor. Canucks > Flames

My apologizes to other flames fans who aren't finding this funny as hell...

Except you're one of the longest drought teams without a cup. You try to believe that you guys have a great team but Vancouver has never won a Cup. You guys are not champions in fact you guys lose without class last year. You guys did not have a winning team last year ... Boston did! I don't know what you're so proud about.

You guys finished with the same results as the Flames last year (Without the cup). Check out your own Canucks player's interview "they all state the Stanley cup is the only thing that matter" yet you gloat about something else that you think is important. On top of that, you guys couldn't win with cheating and diving.

You're biased view totally skews your opinion and knowledge of hockey. If you can get your head out of the Canucks derriere maybe you can see what a horrible team you have and how much better the Flames actual roster is compared to the Canucks.

When I look through a non-biased point of view ... I can easily see that the Flames and the Calgary city are nothing short of Great Champions.

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Except you're one of the longest drought teams without a cup. You try to believe that you guys have a great team but Vancouver has never won a Cup. You guys are not champions in fact you guys lose without class last year. You guys did not have a winning team last year ... Boston did! I don't know what you're so proud about.

You guys finished with the same results as the Flames last year (Without the cup). Check out your own Canucks player's interview "they all state the Stanley cup is the only thing that matter" yet you gloat about something else that you think is important. On top of that, you guys couldn't win with cheating and diving.

You're biased view totally skews your opinion and knowledge of hockey. If you can get your head out of the Canucks derriere maybe you can see what a horrible team you have and how much better the Flames actual roster is compared to the Canucks.

When I look through a non-biased point of view ... I can easily see that the Flames and the Calgary city are nothing short of Great Champions.

Its not exactly all or nothing...

We can be proud winning the most games last yr. Calgary didn't come close.

We can be proud of making the playoffs... Which Calgary didn't.

We can be proud we won more playoff games than 28 other teams.. Calgary didn't win any.

We can be proud of Luongo winning more playoff games than Calgary has in the last 17 yrs.

I mean its not like you were alive when the Flames last won the cup. It's Ancient history you have to read a book to learn about which you needed to find via a card catalog.

And we can be proud that we are a lot closer to the playoffs or a Stanley Cup than the Flames are because we are willing to dive, cheat and bite our way to the top of the standings while your flames admirably let teams pass them in the standings with class and dignity knowing when you're beat and not skilled enough or deep enough to make the playoffs.

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Its not exactly all or nothing...

We can be proud winning the most games last yr. Calgary didn't come close.

We can be proud of making the playoffs... Which Calgary didn't.

We can be proud we won more playoff games than 28 other teams.. Calgary didn't win any.

We can be proud of Luongo winning more playoff games than Calgary has in the last 17 yrs.

I mean its not like you were alive when the Flames last won the cup. It's Ancient history you have to read a book to learn about which you needed to find via a card catalog.

And we can be proud that we are a lot closer to the playoffs or a Stanley Cup than the Flames are because we are willing to dive, cheat and bite our way to the top of the standings while your flames admirably let teams pass them in the standings with class and dignity knowing when you're beat and not skilled enough or deep enough to make the playoffs.

All that is things of the past. You seem to want to dwell in history. In the next few seasons the Flames have a very bright future especially after drafting Baertschi. Where as the Canucks are looking to be the bottom dwellers in the next few years, your roster is depleted, old and slow starting from this year and on.

PS it wasn't too long ago when the Flames won. On top of that, we did it in the hardest era in the NHL when Gretzky, Messier, Kurri, Lemieux, Yzerman, Coffey, Brown, etc We beat out all the greats. Canucks practically had a cake walk this year but couldn't even do it! lol They are a joke of a team.

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All that is things of the past. You seem to want to dwell in history. In the next few seasons the Flames have a very bright future especially after drafting Baertschi. Where as the Canucks are looking to be the bottom dwellers in the next few years, your roster is depleted, old and slow starting from this year and on.

If you are saying that events as late as the 2010-2011 season are in the past and dwelling on history.. Wouldn't you pumping a flames cup from the 80's be the exact same thing? actually way worse.

You are the are the one dwelling in history and living in the past every time you try to use the flames cup win from before you were born as an argument for superiority over the Canucks.

PRESENTLY the canucks have the reigning Selke winner, reigning Art Ross winner, reigning Ted Lindsey winner... they are the reigning Western Conference Champions, reigning Jenning's Trophy winner, and reigning President's Trophy winner. Presently.

They are also presently the dirtiest, cheapest, most classless team in the league with the best divers.

The Flames are presently a reigning lottery team....

I mean.. I'm glad you're one to put the past behind him... sick of hearing about a cup from the 80's when we're trying to discuss hockey 3 decades later. I agree with you... stop dwelling on the past.

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