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Even if you don't ignore all that, Butler is still the better dman. He's got a way brighter upside than Tanev who is just a career AHL'r. Butler is impressive...

From HF Calgary fan...

I am actually a Flames fan and Butler should be in the minors. The Sabres ripped the Flames on this trade. Butler is like a dumber Adam Pardy.

Also:

Butler's D rankings:

team worst -2 (and we know how you LOVE plus/minus stats to make an argument - so have fun there)

3rd highest ice time

2nd most giveaways with 12

in his 9 games - 6 hits (leader has 20), 8 shots (21), 12 gvy, 2 twys

sounds great... Butler wins everything.

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From HF Calgary fan...

Also:

Butler's D rankings:

team worst -2 (and we know how you LOVE plus/minus stats to make an argument - so have fun there)

3rd highest ice time

2nd most giveaways with 12

in his 9 games - 6 hits (leader has 20), 8 shots (21), 12 gvy, 2 twys

sounds great... you win.

-2 is understandable considering he has to play against the likes of Ovechkin, Stamkos, Kessels day in and day out.

talk about +/- ... look at Canucks Dman Ballard -9, Bieksa -7, Hamhuis -2. Now that's sad spending over 13.3Mil per season on these guys and they are a total -17.

Lets compare to Babchuk, Hannon and Butler. Feaster spent just 3.75Mil on these 3 defenceman and they are even in +/-. That is good value signing.

Thank you for admitting I win. I am usually correct in my hockey analyst because I look at things from an unbiased point of view. If you just step out of your little Canucks box, then you will become an unbiased hockey analyst like me.

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-2 is understandable considering he has to play against the likes of Ovechkin, Stamkos, Kessels day in and day out.

talk about +/- ... look at Canucks Dman Ballard -9, Bieksa -7, Hamhuis -2. Now that's sad spending over 13.3Mil per season on these guys and they are a total -17.

Lets compare to Babchuk, Hannon and Butler. Feaster spent just 3.75Mil on these 3 defenceman and they are even in +/-. That is good value signing.

Thank you for admitting I win. I am usually correct in my hockey analyst because I look at things from an unbiased point of view. If you just step out of your little Canucks box, then you will become an unbiased hockey analyst like me.

heh heh.. tomorrow can't come fast enough.

What's your unbiased view of Iginla's start?

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heh heh.. tomorrow can't come fast enough.

What's your unbiased view of Iginla's start?

Slow start, something similar to previous years. He usually heats it up in the next while and still ends up with 80pt seasons. Other than that, I'm really excited about our team. Horak, Backlund, Baertchi are going to be scary in the future. Probably something similar to Edmontons young guns NugentHopkins Eberle Hall. Its just unfortunate for the Canucks they spent all their time and efforts trying to sign old players, you guys are getting older with no youths like Calgary and Edmonton(it hurts me to say it). Calgary and Edmonton are going to be the new young generation of Hockey while you will have to play Sedins+Luongo+Kesler+Salo into their 40s!

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Hmmm...

Kesler, Raymond, Booth - 26

Edler, Lapierre, Hansen - 25

Weise - 23

Hodgson - 21

All cutting their teeth effectively right now... looks good to me.

But you keep looking into the future... maybe look forward to another high draft pick this yr so you can also brag how awesome he may be in 4 yrs.

Schroeder, Erixson, Jensen, Tanev, Rodin... yeah.. you should focus on the Flames.

predicted derftastic response - 'future scrubs..' yeah yeah, got it.

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Hmmm...

Kesler, Raymond, Booth - 26

Edler, Lapierre, Hansen - 25

Weise - 23

Hodgson - 21

All cutting their teeth effectively right now... looks good to me.

But you keep looking into the future... maybe look forward to another high draft pick this yr so you can also brag how awesome he may be in 4 yrs.

Schroeder, Erixson, Jensen, Tanev, Rodin... yeah.. you should focus on the Flames.

predicted derftastic response - 'future scrubs..' yeah yeah, got it.

Hodgson = Practically invisible - He's way over hyped and he no where close to the same player as Horak. Horak has way more skill than Hodgson.

Schroeder, Erixson, Jensen, Tanev, Rodin are all career Minor League players which nobody knows! lol They don't have a bright future like Backlund, Baertchi, Nemisz, Mikkleson, Brodie, I can go on and on about TOP END players that are going to make our team a top end young team that Vancouver wishes they had!

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Hodgson = Practically invisible - He's way over hyped and he no where close to the same player as Horak. Horak has way more skill than Hodgson.

Schroeder, Erixson, Jensen, Tanev, Rodin are all career Minor League players which nobody knows! lol They don't have a bright future like Backlund, Baertchi, Nemisz, Mikkleson, Brodie, I can go on and on about TOP END players that are going to make our team a top end young team that Vancouver wishes they had!

predicted derftastic response - 'future scrubs..' yeah yeah, got it.

so again.. yeah yeah.. got it.. future scrubs...

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so again.. yeah yeah.. got it.. future scrubs...

There not future scrubs, they have skill set only enough to get them into the minors unfortunately. I know its tough to see it but you're so biased with the Canucks that it doesn't appear to you that way.

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So no one with a worse record than Vancouver has a better G/gm average or a better PP..

It's positive sign that better things are on the horizon..

Nothing like a passionate rivalry game to kick off a 6 game roadie..

So tomorrow's matchup...

Key to the game could be...

Vancouver's PP vs the flames PK...

5-on-5 the canucks haven't settled in, but are trending better in that department. Same with 1st periods. Their 3rds have been their best.

Wonder how Sutter will play it this yr...

Will he go top line vs top line like in the past... or will he go Jokinen vs Sedin like he did near the end of the yr last yr...

Vancouver's probable lines:

Sedin-Sedin-Burrows

Booth-Kesler-Hodgson

Higgens-Malhotra-Hansen

Weise-Lapierre-(Volpatti) - Ebbett has a small chance of checking in, but i think they'll be thinking physical game in which case Volpatti may be the better option...

What are the recent flames lines?

Who's playing with Iginla? Tanguay and... Moss? Morrison?

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So no one with a worse record than Vancouver has a better G/gm average or a better PP..

It's positive sign that better things are on the horizon..

Nothing like a passionate rivalry game to kick off a 6 game roadie..

So tomorrow's matchup...

Key to the game could be...

Vancouver's PP vs the flames PK...

5-on-5 the canucks haven't settled in, but are trending better in that department. Same with 1st periods. Their 3rds have been their best.

Wonder how Sutter will play it this yr...

Will he go top line vs top line like in the past... or will he go Jokinen vs Sedin like he did near the end of the yr last yr...

Vancouver's probable lines:

Sedin-Sedin-Burrows

Booth-Kesler-Hodgson

Higgens-Malhotra-Hansen

Weise-Lapierre-(Volpatti) - Ebbett has a small chance of checking in, but i think they'll be thinking physical game in which case Volpatti may be the better option...

What are the recent flames lines?

Who's playing with Iginla? Tanguay and... Moss? Morrison?

Last year Morrison fitted well with Iggy and Tangs but with his prior injury they might elect to just keep Moss in that spot for now. Unsure which direction Sutter is going to go tomorrow but I'm excited to kick off November with a Win.

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Last year Morrison fitted well with Iggy and Tangs but with his prior injury they might elect to just keep Moss in that spot for now. Unsure which direction Sutter is going to go tomorrow but I'm excited to kick off November with a Win.

Do you not follow the flames or what? How do you not know who is playing with Iginla right now? or even the last few games?

What are the flames lines... or do you not actually know that either?

wow..

(i'll wait as look it up in the flames forum now)

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Do you not follow the flames or what? How do you not know who is playing with Iginla right now? or even the last few games?

What are the flames lines... or do you not actually know that either?

wow..

(i'll wait as look it up in the flames forum now)

The last few games line ups were always being switched around due to dressing 11 forwards. Sutter tends to change line ups as the game goes along anyways.

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The last few games line ups were always being switched around due to dressing 11 forwards. Sutter tends to change line ups as the game goes along anyways.

all 2 of them?

I think you've confirmed what we all knew about you...

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Back to back Art Ross trophies without even scoring a point/game? Now THATS impressive.

Can you blame him for sticking up for his players? It's gotten out of control in Vancouver.

Martin Brodeur couldn't.

Brodeur has 3 Stanley Cup rings, a Calder, 4 Vezinas, 5 William Jennings & 2 Olympic Gold medals.

7oungo? 1 Jennings & 1 Olympic Gold. But maybe all those "Thanks for Coming" ribbons make up for the difference. :lol:

Luongo has a long way to go before he rates be mentioned along with a great goalie like Brodeur!

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Brodeur has 3 Stanley Cup rings, a Calder, 4 Vezinas, 5 William Jennings & 2 Olympic Gold medals.

7oungo? 1 Jennings & 1 Olympic Gold. But maybe all those "Thanks for Coming" ribbons make up for the difference. :lol:

Luongo has a long way to go before he rates be mentioned along with a great goalie like Brodeur!

My only point was that Brodeur couldn't get the job done with that team in front of him. So the excuse that "anyone" could win gold with that team in front of them is bogus.

But way to miss the point and think I was comparing the careers of the two.

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Game 1 of the 2011-12 season series... Men vs boys..

Almost felt bad for flames fan.. almost.

Hodgson with perhaps his best game of the season. Looked dangerous on multiple occassions.

Good work for the 2nd line... 4 pts.

Great work by the Sedins on the PP.. 3 pts for that top line.

But awesome contribution from the depth...

Hansen, Lapierre, Higgens, Malhotra, Weise all with points tonight..

I don't remember ever seeing a game where every forward but one gets a point... Volpatti shut out.

Edler... another 3 pt night. 12pts in 12 games... incredible start for him.

Just a great way for the Canucks to start their road trip.

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Game 1 of the 2011-12 season series... Men vs boys..

Almost felt bad for flames fan.. almost.

AV calls off the dawgs with 14 mins left in the 3rd..

Hodgson with perhaps his best game of the season. Looked dangerous on multiple occassions.

Good work for the 2nd line... 4 pts.

Great work by the Sedins on the PP.. 3 pts for that top line.

But awesome contribution from the depth...

Hansen, Lapierre, Higgens, Malhotra, Weise all with points tonight..

I don't remember ever seeing a game where every forward but one gets a point... Volpatti shut out.

Edler... another 3 pt night. 12pts in 12 games... incredible start for him.

Just a great way for the Canucks to start their road trip.

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Game 1 of the 2011-12 season series... Men vs boys..

Almost felt bad for flames fan.. almost.

Hodgson with perhaps his best game of the season. Looked dangerous on multiple occassions.

Good work for the 2nd line... 4 pts.

Great work by the Sedins on the PP.. 3 pts for that top line.

But awesome contribution from the depth...

Hansen, Lapierre, Higgens, Malhotra, Weise all with points tonight..

I don't remember ever seeing a game where every forward but one gets a point... Volpatti shut out.

Edler... another 3 pt night. 12pts in 12 games... incredible start for him.

Just a great way for the Canucks to start their road trip.

Not a bad game for a 'scrub career AHLer' .....

However I do think AV needs to sit Volpatti out to send him a message :D

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...Horak, Backlund, Baertchi are going to be scary in the future. Probably something similar to Edmontons young guns NugentHopkins Eberle Hall. ...

hilarious, thanks for the laughs!

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Canucks are obviously off to a mediocre start by their standards... but things seems to be settling down.

The Pros...

Since the calender flipped to Nov...

Loungo in 6 gms: 4-2, 2.30 GAA, 0.925... back to business.

Booth - 10 gms with the Canucks - 7pts

Hodgson - 9pts in his 18 gms.

Rome? - 3g 5pts in 4 gms??? wtf... awesome... but unexpected.

Joins Edler and and Salo as weapons on the backend...

Higgens consistency at the start was a nice surprise.

Team scoring.. PP.. PK... secondary scoring... twins are scoring as usual..

The Cons...

Kesler still needs to get on track..

Burrows is off.

5 on 5 play needs to be better.

Malhotra is coming along slower than expected.

Raymond is still out.

All in all... could of been a lot worse.

sitting at 19 pts. all 9 wins are ROW (8th in the league in ROW win%).

on the heals of the Oil, and the Wild aren't far ahead.

Flames... finally infusing the youngens.

Will be interesting to see if they maintain the strategy, and if so, will be interesting to see where tehy are in another 10 gms...

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A little quiet around here so time for a bit of humour. (Modified slightly - Original source unknown)

Two boys are playing hockey on a pond in Calgary when one is suddenly attacked by a rabid rottweiler.

Thinking quickly, the other boy takes his stick and shoves it under the dogs collar, twists it breaking the dog's neck and saving his friend.

Eric Francis, a SunMedia reporter, who was strolling by sees the incident. "Flames Fan Saves Friend From Vicious Animal," he starts writing in his notebook.

"But I'm not a Flames fan," the little hero replied.

"Sorry, since we are in Calgary I just assumed you were," said the reporter and he starts writing again. "Stampeders Fan Rescues Friend From Horrific Attack."

"I'm not an Stampeders fan either," the boy said.

"Oh, I assumed everyone in Calgary was either for the Flames or the Stampeders. What team do you root for?" the reporter asked.

"I'm from Vancouver, I'm a Canucks fan," the child said.

The reporter starts a new sheet in his notebook and writes, "Little Bastard From Vancouver Kills Beloved Family Pet."

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The stats....

Canucks

10 gms: 4-5-1, 9 pts. 3rd in the div, 10th in the W, 20th overall. (Cal: last in the div, 14th in the W, 26th overall)

20 gms: 10-9-1, 21pts. 3rd in the div, 11th in the W, 21st overall. (8-11-1, last in div, 13th in W, 27th overall)

Goals/gm

10 gms: 2.40, 19th (20th)

20 gms: 2.90, 9th (27th)

GA/gm

10 gms: 2.80, 22nd (20th)

20 gms: 2.80, 18th (17th)

PP%

10 gms: 19.2, 10th (12th)

20 gms: 26.7 1st (22th)

PPG

10 gms: 9, 4th (20th)

20 gms: 24, 1st (25th)

PK%

10 gms: 86.0, 12th (17th)

20 gms: 85.4, 10th ( 23th)

PPGA

10 gms: 6, 13th (11th)

20 gms: 12, 10th (18th)

5-on-5 Ratio

10 gms: 0.75 27th (13th)

20 gms: 0.80, 24th (20th)

Plus/Minus

10 gms: -7, 29th (25th)

20 gms: -10, 25th (22nd)

Faceoffs

10 gms: 52.2, 6th (25th)

20 gms: 52.3, 4th (30th)

SoG

10 gms: 33.3, 6th (21st)

20 gms: 32.8, 6th (25th)

SoGA

10 gms: 26.8, 5th (15th)

20 gms: 28.6, 10th (18th)

Hits

10 gms: 227, 6th (25th)

20 gms: 430, 16th (27th)

Blocked Shots

10 gms: 106, 26th (17th)

20 gms: 208, 30th (11th)

Giveaways

10 gms: 71, 18th (29th)

20 gms: 130, 6th, (29th)

Takeaways

10 gms: 76, 6th (11th)

20 gms: 128, 22th (4th)

Canucks still stagnant... But 6-4 is better than their 4-6...

Improving scoring and PP... Even strength still lagging.

Not worried about Blocked shots because of the type of defensive system they play... like detroit's - more of a containment type relying on IQ and foot speed... SogA are still reasonably low despite.

Faceoffs are still top tier, but have dropped with Malhotra's diminished role. He doesn't take as many as he used to... And Kesler was missing for the beginning of the season. Should pick up if Manny earns more ice time.

Calgary's stats reflecting what everyone already feels about the team over in the other forum... blow this up, trade him, fire him...etc etc..

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