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Discussion & Debate Thread: Flames and Canucks

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Hey DL,

putting our biased views aside, I wanted your take on the rumors of Iggy as trade bait for some teams out there. Do you think this is a fair trade?

From the Flames:

Iggy + JBo + Karlsson

For:

Kesler + Edler + Schneider + 2nd Rounder

You're biased views might want to cancelled out the draft pick but I originally thought we deserved a 1st rounder so putting aside my biased view, Im trying to even it out by adding only a 2nd rounder.

What's your thought on this?

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Hey DL,

putting our biased views aside, I wanted your take on the rumors of Iggy as trade bait for some teams out there. Do you think this is a fair trade?

From the Flames:

Iggy + JBo + Karlsson

For:

Kesler + Edler + Schneider + 2nd Rounder

You're biased views might want to cancelled out the draft pick but I originally thought we deserved a 1st rounder so putting aside my biased view, Im trying to even it out by adding only a 2nd rounder.

What's your thought on this?

I would say no. The fit just isn't there for the players coming back to the Canucks for a few reasons.

First is the general age of the main pieces. We are trading 3 younger players that are just now entering their prime. If things continue to go as they should, these three players will be at the level they are at now (or possibly higher) for the next 6-8 years. Iginla being the main piece in return and it is reasonable to expect him to play at a high level for only 1 or 2 more years. Bouwmeester isn't old, but he has 3 years on Edler.

The Canucks are on a roll right now, and should work their way back to the top of the standings soon. A team that is a cup contender generally does not make core-shifting trades mid-season. Kesler and Edler (especially the former) are a HUGE part of the heart and soul of this team. Making a trade like this is something a desperate team would do (like Anaheim, hence the Bobby Ryan rumors). Any Canucks trades in the near future will (at least should) be adding pieces while moving as little as possible from the current roster. Honestly I don't see a situation where the Canucks trade any of the Sedins, Kesler, Burrows, Hodgson, Booth, Malhotra, Lappiere, Hansen, Higgins, Edler, Bieksa, Salo, Hamhuis in the near future.

As of right now, Kesler can match or exceed the production of Iginla, and Edler is far exceeding the production of Bouwmeester. Schneider is far outproducing Karlsson, but it's hard to compare since it's based on opportunity. I would not trade any of the 3 straight up. The draft pick doesn't make a difference because I think it is unbalanced towards the Flames even without it. Now if you added the Flames 1st rounder (possible lottery pick) the value would be a lot closer. But I still wouldn't do it.

The collective cap hits of Iginla/Bouwmeester/Karlsson is roughly $14.5M for 6 years. The collective cap hits of Kesler/Edler/Schneider is $9.15M for 9 years.

So to summarize, as good or better players signed for longer on better contracts and younger. Sorry but this trade is not even.

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<br />Hey DL, <br /><br />putting our biased views aside, I wanted your take on the rumors of Iggy as trade bait for some teams out there. Do you think this is a fair trade?<br /><br />From the Flames:<br />Iggy + JBo + Karlsson<br /><br />For:<br />Kesler + Edler + Schneider + 2nd Rounder<br /><br />You're biased views might want to cancelled out the draft pick but I originally thought we deserved a 1st rounder so putting aside my biased view, Im trying to even it out by adding only a 2nd rounder.<br /><br /><br />What's your thought on this?<br />

Well.. putting my bias aside... I think that's a fair trade. Vancouver may have to add 1st rounder even.

I was thinking the other day... you know... our players are too young and too underpaid... how do we change that?

lo and behold...

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It's quite surprising that the net didn't come off the moorings. I guess he got pushed just right to go on top. :D

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Speaking of curses...

Since Linden retired in 08, The Canucks have outscored the flames 80-49... and generally dominated the rivalry.

10-2 this yr.

Booth and Higgens, the new flames killer? 4 pts each in the 2 gms.

The flames struggles over the last 2 and a bit seasons has dulled this rivalry and this thread for that matter.

Ahhh.. the glory days... Back when Bourque vs Kesler, Bourque for Selke, Boyd vs Raymond were actual debates...

ah well... its all cyclical.

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It looks like the Canucks are being subjected to the trade BS the Flames were subjected to with Iginla.

I wonder which underwear-clad Canuck blogger in mom's basement is guilty for this one.

Trade winds blowing in Vancouver? - Sportsnet Staff - Dec 06, 2011

(Excerpt) The Vancouver Canucks have explored the option of trading away goaltender Roberto Luongo, according to a report from the Ottawa Sun's Bruce Garrioch.

The article says: "The talk among league executives is the Canucks have dangled Luongo in trade circles, but haven't been able to find anybody interested in his $5.3-million cap hit and contract that runs through the 2021-22 season."

The only way this has the proverbial snowball's chance is if they put him on waivers and then pay 1/2 his contract until 2022.

What a horrendously crippling contract for the Canucks. It makes Stajan's contract look like a work of genius. :rolleyes:

:lol: Also referenced in the article - WTT 32 y/o NHL Goalie (Vancouver, BC, CA)

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It looks like the Canucks are being subjected to the trade BS the Flames were subjected to with Iginla.

I wonder which underwear-clad Canuck blogger in mom's basement is guilty for this one.

The only way this has the proverbial snowball's chance is if they put him on waivers and then pay 1/2 his contract until 2022.

What a horrendously crippling contract for the Canucks. It makes Stajan's contract look like a work of genius. :rolleyes:

:lol: Also referenced in the article - WTT 32 y/o NHL Goalie (Vancouver, BC, CA)

What's so crippling about it? Luongo is the 7th highest paid starting goalie in the league (8th once Rinne's contract kicks in and likely 9th after Montreal re-signs Carey Price).

Matt Stajan is by far the highest paid 4th liner in the league.

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It looks like the Canucks are being subjected to the trade BS the Flames were subjected to with Iginla.

I wonder which underwear-clad Canuck blogger in mom's basement is guilty for this one.

The only way this has the proverbial snowball's chance is if they put him on waivers and then pay 1/2 his contract until 2022.

What a horrendously crippling contract for the Canucks. It makes Stajan's contract look like a work of genius. :rolleyes:

:lol: Also referenced in the article - WTT 32 y/o NHL Goalie (Vancouver, BC, CA)

It's a joke of an article. You really think Garrioch actually has NHL sources superior to those of the TSN crew - McKenzie or Dreger... or even LeBrun?

And think about the process here... you think Gillis would openly attempt to shop him at this time of yr? while Schneider is playing as well as he is and while Luongo works his way back from injury?

How does that even make sense from a leverage point of view?

Would he actually try to rip his team apart by causing a media sheetstorm?

Nothing about this makes sense, except a reporter's attempt to gain website hits by 'reporting' on the hot story of the month.

Also obviously gives people opportunity to revisit Luongo's contract terms.

As of right now and the foreseeable future... the Luongo contract is still gold. $5.3 mil/yr at his level of performance is a massive value...

won't be later on... but is great right now.

A deeper look at the contract, and there are club options that open up after yr 7... out clauses if you will. So he could be here for 12... or he could be here 7, and we see the Canucks willingly eat the $...

They have that flexibility built into the contract. So i don't see it as a 12 yr contract myself.

And there is no contract out there that makes Stajan's $3.5 mil/yr contract look like a work of genius. nice try.

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Ah.......mission accomplished.

It was starting to look like a ghost town in here.

I love poking things with sharp sticks. B)

As for anything that emanates from a SunMedia employee's mind, I am reminded of the writers for Mad Magazine or The Sun in the UK.

Yes,Bobby Lou's contract is good value if he plays like a No.1 starter.

Currently, it is sadly overvalued.

Sort of like Iginla at times.

Don't be a stranger DL44 & CoN :P

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Wade Redden?? Scott Gomez??

Those were at least based on previous elite level performances...

Gomez was a 3 time 70 pt guy with a 30+g 80+pt season under his belt.

Redden... we know was at one time a #1, olympic level dman prior to his signing.

What did Stajan show with the leafs or even more importantly with the flames that warranted a Five yr commitment @ $3.5 per?

(96gms, 6g, 29a since.)

Ah.......mission accomplished.

It was starting to look like a ghost town in here.

I love poking things with sharp sticks. B)

As for anything that emanates from a SunMedia employee's mind, I am reminded of the writers for Mad Magazine or The Sun in the UK.

Yes,Bobby Lou's contract is good value if he plays like a No.1 starter.

Currently, it is sadly overvalued.

Sort of like Iginla at times.

Don't be a stranger DL44 & CoN :P

Based on what? He's looked like his regular solid self for his starts in Nov...

Like Iginla he's a notorius slow starter...

Unlike Iginla once the calender flipped to November, Luongo of old has quietly started to show up. I say quietly since the most popular guy in town - "the backup".. has ripped it up as well.

Luongo starts since Nov 1st:

5-2, 2.10 GAA, 0.927 Sv%

Iginla since Nov 1st:

17gms, 5g, 11pts

(better than his 9gm 4pt Oct at least)

(good job on the bait tho)

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It's a joke of an article. You really think Garrioch actually has NHL sources superior to those of the TSN crew - McKenzie or Dreger... or even LeBrun?

Pyro basically said that with the blogger in their underwear in mommy's basement intro. ;)

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Those were at least based on previous elite level performances...

Gomez was a 3 time 70 pt guy with a 30+g 80+pt season under his belt.

Redden... we know was at one time a #1, olympic level dman prior to his signing.

What did Stajan show with the leafs or even more importantly with the flames that warranted a Five yr commitment @ $3.5 per?

(96gms, 6g, 29a since.)

First off it's only a 4 year deal, consider 3.5 is 3mil less than Redden and less than half of Gomez you could say you'd expect half the player. Stajan was coming off of back to back 50 point years. I can't defend what he's done since, compare him to Gomez look at the production and salary from last year and this and convince me that Stajans deal is worse.

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First off it's only a 4 year deal, consider 3.5 is 3mil less than Redden and less than half of Gomez you could say you'd expect half the player. Stajan was coming off of back to back 50 point years. I can't defend what he's done since, compare him to Gomez look at the production and salary from last year and this and convince me that Stajans deal is worse.

Just debating the fact that Gomez/Redden makes Stajan's contract look "genius" I'm sure.

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First off it's only a 4 year deal, consider 3.5 is 3mil less than Redden and less than half of Gomez you could say you'd expect half the player. Stajan was coming off of back to back 50 point years. I can't defend what he's done since, compare him to Gomez look at the production and salary from last year and this and convince me that Stajans deal is worse.

oh.. its definitely not worse than Gomez's deal..

But that deal still doesn't make the Stajan deal look like a genius move by any means.

It's just a really really bad deal that makes all other really bad deals look less bad than they really are..

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Now in his Nov starts.. Luongo:

6-2, 1.88 GAA, 0.932 Sv %

heeee's baaack..

He was fricken great tonight... till the puck to the throat.

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Now in his Nov starts.. Luongo:

6-2, 1.88 GAA, 0.932 Sv %

heeee's baaack..

He was fricken great tonight... till the puck to the throat.

Yeah, too bad. He's alright though and should be back in net in his hometown on Thursday.

Though with his luck, I thought for sure Colorado would get a weak one at the end to take away the W from him.

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Now in his Nov starts.. Luongo:

6-2, 1.88 GAA, 0.932 Sv %

heeee's baaack..

He was fricken great tonight... till the puck to the throat.

What were Scheider's #s in Nov.?

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Just looking at stats and it was kinda funny to see...

Daniel has Henrik's point total - 33

Henrik has Daniel's assist total - 22

What were Scheider's #s in Nov.?

Schnieder starts since Nov 1st:

8 starts, 5-2, 2.31, 0.931

Vancouver's goaltending has caught fire.. as has the offense... 5on5 play is finally picked up and has been solid again. Team is starting to look like last yr. But now our 2nd line is pretty much decimated with Booth and Higgens (back any day) hurt. But otherwise... looks good.

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Still waiting to hear the seriousness of Booth's knee injury. That was nasty and hopefully suspension-worthy.

doubt he gets a suspension... he appropriately got 5 and a game. That seems about right since it wasn't a completely predatory hit. Just a very very stupid one.

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Still waiting to hear the seriousness of Booth's knee injury. That was nasty and hopefully suspension-worthy.

It was posted on CalgarySun that "Knocked Over Phone" Booth is out 4-6 weeks. LOL told you guys that injury prone Booth isn't the same player he was in the past. What an absolutely horrible trade by Gillis. Gillis has been a complete tool after trading for Ballard, unable to sign premier defenceman Ehrhoff (Although you can't really blame Gillis since why would any player want to play for a city who trashes and riots their own city) and trading for Booth.

I saw the play where Booth got injured and the onus is on Booth to keep his head up and know where the other players are. Booth clearly leaves his knee out in a vulnerable position for someone else to clip him. This is the type of player Booth is, he is wreck less, after his concussion hit, he's playing hockey like a bantam house league player expecting no contact when cutting into open ice!(lol even I know that and I only play recreational hockey). In agreement with DL, there should not be any suspensions for that play.

Word of advice to Booth if you ever come on this hockey board - keep your head up, its a man's game out there.

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