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Discussion & Debate Thread: Flames and Canucks

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It was posted on CalgarySun that "Knocked Over Phone" Booth is out 4-6 weeks. LOL told you guys that injury prone Booth isn't the same player he was in the past. What an absolutely horrible trade by Gillis. Gillis has been a complete tool after trading for Ballard, unable to sign premier defenceman Ehrhoff (Although you can't really blame Gillis since why would any player want to play for a city who trashes and riots their own city) and trading for Booth.

I saw the play where Booth got injured and the onus is on Booth to keep his head up and know where the other players are. Booth clearly leaves his knee out in a vulnerable position for someone else to clip him. This is the type of player Booth is, he is wreck less, after his concussion hit, he's playing hockey like a bantam house league player expecting no contact when cutting into open ice!(lol even I know that and I only play recreational hockey). In agreement with DL, there should not be any suspensions for that play.

Word of advice to Booth if you ever come on this hockey board - keep your head up, its a man's game out there.

At least his entire season didn't end because he bent over to block a shot.

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Still waiting to hear the seriousness of Booth's knee injury. That was nasty and hopefully suspension-worthy.

doubt he gets a suspension... he appropriately got 5 and a game. That seems about right since it wasn't a completely predatory hit. Just a very very stupid one.

Flames killer Booth is out 4-6 weeks - MCL partial tear...

And we're waiting to hear the results of the Shanny-Porter hearing right now which i didn't think it would get to... so i'll be happy eat my words he if sits.

Things working against him

- the idiotic play of hanging his leg out there.

- Significant injury on the play.

For him

- clean history

- (and i'm not sure if this factors in like it used to pre-shanny since i haven't heard him reference it...) but he got 5 and a gm on the play..

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Daaamn... 4 games.

Shanny no likey the kneeing! Shanny video

I never realized how long he hung that knee...

You sound like a 4 year old.

The onus needs to also be put on Booth for cutting into the slot with his head down, It's like Booth expect nobody to hit him. This is the reason why he is injured. He would probably learn his lesson better if his injury was for 3-4 months.

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As of right now and the foreseeable future... the Luongo contract is still gold. $5.3 mil/yr at his level of performance is a massive value...

won't be later on... but is great right now.

What's so crippling about it? Luongo is the 7th highest paid starting goalie in the league (8th once Rinne's contract kicks in and likely 9th after Montreal re-signs Carey Price).

'still gold' :lol:

You guys are seriously trying to make the case that because his cap hit (arguably) makes sense for this year, that makes it an ok contract?

Wow, talk about ignoring the elephant in the room!

So if Iginla had 6 more years at $7M, his contract wouldn't be an albatross as long as it still made sense this year?

Yeah, that's how contracts should be evaluated - ignore the remaining term and ask if the player is worth it this year. That'll get you far in trade discussions.

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'still gold' :lol:

You guys are seriously trying to make the case that because his cap hit (arguably) makes sense for this year, that makes it an ok contract?

Wow, talk about ignoring the elephant in the room!

So if Iginla had 6 more years at $7M, his contract wouldn't be an albatross as long as it still made sense this year?

Yeah, that's how contracts should be evaluated - ignore the remaining term and ask if the player is worth it this year. That'll get you far in trade discussions.

What if Iginla was signed for the past 4 seasons at a cap hit of $5.3 mil with his level of performance?

- there is no doubt that the contract can become an albatross in the later yrs. That's almost a given. The point of it is to get high value out him in the early yrs of it.

Yr 1 of the contract: Vezina nominee, and takes his team within a win of the Cup. - $5.3 mil.

so far.. gold.

- What will a $5.3 mil cap in 5-6 yrs mean relative to the total salary also remains to be seen. (the degree of albatross status.)

$5.3 mil 6 yrs ago - 14% of the cap.

$5.3 mil today - 8% of the cap

$5.3 mil in 6 yrs - ??

who knows.. if it drops to say 5% value, that's the equivalent of $3.2 mil today... i.e. hardly albatross status. Hell - still a better value than Stajan.

Or you could just ignore all that and be like... lol zomg 12 yrs!!1!1!

I know which reaction i expect... sooo carry on.

In the meanwhile... i'll just enjoy the saves.

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'still gold' :lol:

You guys are seriously trying to make the case that because his cap hit (arguably) makes sense for this year, that makes it an ok contract?

Wow, talk about ignoring the elephant in the room!

So if Iginla had 6 more years at $7M, his contract wouldn't be an albatross as long as it still made sense this year?

Yeah, that's how contracts should be evaluated - ignore the remaining term and ask if the player is worth it this year. That'll get you far in trade discussions.

Right now, it's a great deal. Like DL said before, there is out clauses for both Luongo and the team after 5 and 7 years. Chances are the contract will not last past the 16/17 season (Luongo being 38).

If it was only a 7 year contract would you still say it's so bad?

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What if Iginla was signed for the past 4 seasons at a cap hit of $5.3 mil with his level of performance?

???

We're talking about tradability and the fact that Luongo's contract is an albatross. What matters to anyone looking to pick up a player is: are they worth the contract going forward?

Even if Luongo was the best goalie in the history of the world last year, it still doesn't justify, or make good value of, 9 more years at $5.3M.

Right now, it's a great deal. Like DL said before, there is out clauses for both Luongo and the team after 5 and 7 years. Chances are the contract will not last past the 16/17 season (Luongo being 38).

If it was only a 7 year contract would you still say it's so bad?

Is he tradable?

No, he is not.

Why? Because he has one of the worst contracts in the league.

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???

We're talking about tradability and the fact that Luongo's contract is an albatross. What matters to anyone looking to pick up a player is: are they worth the contract going forward?

Even if Luongo was the best goalie in the history of the world last year, it still doesn't justify, or make good value of, 9 more years at $5.3M.

Is he tradable?

No, he is not.

Why? Because he has one of the worst contracts in the league.

Scott Gomez was traded on an arguably worse contract.

Let me paint you a picture. It's July 2017, Luongo is 38 his age is starting to show. A team like Florida, Columbus, ect... are well below the salary floor despite not having a lot of money to spend. They trade a modest package for a still serviceable goalie who's salary cap is is larger than his actually salary remaining per year. It works for them as they get this goalie for a year for two before he retires, while hitting the cap floor but paying less than the cap hit (thus saving money).

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???

We're talking about tradability and the fact that Luongo's contract is an albatross. What matters to anyone looking to pick up a player is: are they worth the contract going forward?

Even if Luongo was the best goalie in the history of the world last year, it still doesn't justify, or make good value of, 9 more years at $5.3M.

Is he tradable?

No, he is not.

Why? Because he has one of the worst contracts in the league.

Wait... who talking about trading him?

Why would we want to trade him?

What a pointless line of discussion.

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Scott Gomez was traded on an arguably worse contract.

Let me paint you a picture. It's July 2017, Luongo is 38 his age is starting to show. A team like Florida, Columbus, ect... are well below the salary floor despite not having a lot of money to spend. They trade a modest package for a still serviceable goalie who's salary cap is is larger than his actually salary remaining per year. It works for them as they get this goalie for a year for two before he retires, while hitting the cap floor but paying less than the cap hit (thus saving money).

You're right... in 2017, his contract will definitely be easier to move!

Nuck fans only have 6 years to wait.

It looks like the Canucks are being subjected to the trade BS the Flames were subjected to with Iginla.

I wonder which underwear-clad Canuck blogger in mom's basement is guilty for this one.

The only way this has the proverbial snowball's chance is if they put him on waivers and then pay 1/2 his contract until 2022.

What a horrendously crippling contract for the Canucks. It makes Stajan's contract look like a work of genius. :rolleyes:

:lol: Also referenced in the article - WTT 32 y/o NHL Goalie (Vancouver, BC, CA)

Wait... who talking about trading him?

Why would we want to trade him?

What a pointless line of discussion.

Um...

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You're right... in 2017, his contract will definitely be easier to move!

Nuck fans only have 6 years to wait.

At the end of which he will likely be top 4 All-time in Wins.

Maybe be the 3rd to hit 500 wins.

Might even hit 1000 games played.

Probably move into the top 10 ALL-time in shutouts as well.

Who knows were his playoff numbers will be...

if he wins another series, he moves to around.. 26th All-time - with Hrudy.

2 series.. 22nd All-time

3 series.. 20th All-time

We'll enjoy the ride in the meanwhile. Thanks for your concern.

(i see you were referencing basement guy in underwear... great)

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You're right... in 2017, his contract will definitely be easier to move!

Nuck fans only have 6 years to wait.

Um...

Hahahahaha.. they have to suffer 6 years with Loserongo

At the end of which he will likely be top 4 All-time in Wins.

Maybe be the 3rd to hit 500 wins.

Might even hit 1000 games played.

Probably move into the top 10 ALL-time in shutouts as well.

Who knows were his playoff numbers will be...

if he wins another series, he moves to around.. 26th All-time - with Hrudy.

2 series.. 22nd All-time

3 series.. 20th All-time

We'll enjoy the ride in the meanwhile. Thanks for your concern.

(i see you were referencing basement guy in underwear... great)

Are we talking about the same Loserongo here who couldn't make a save when the time depended on it?

Games 3, 4 and 6 in Boston:

Thomas 3-0, 1.01 GAA, 0.974 Save percentage. *1 shutout

Luongo 0-3, 8.05 GAA, 0.773 Save percentage. *Pulled in Games 4 and 6.

Probably the only GM would wants Luongo right now is Mike Gillis, All the other GM's would rather go with their current goalie.

For a comparison, I know we definitely have the better of the two goalies when comparing Kipper to Luongo

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It was posted on CalgarySun that "Knocked Over Phone" Booth is out 4-6 weeks. LOL told you guys that injury prone Booth isn't the same player he was in the past. What an absolutely horrible trade by Gillis. Gillis has been a complete tool after trading for Ballard, unable to sign premier defenceman Ehrhoff (Although you can't really blame Gillis since why would any player want to play for a city who trashes and riots their own city) and trading for Booth.

I saw the play where Booth got injured and the onus is on Booth to keep his head up and know where the other players are. Booth clearly leaves his knee out in a vulnerable position for someone else to clip him. This is the type of player Booth is, he is wreck less, after his concussion hit, he's playing hockey like a bantam house league player expecting no contact when cutting into open ice!(lol even I know that and I only play recreational hockey). In agreement with DL, there should not be any suspensions for that play.

Word of advice to Booth if you ever come on this hockey board - keep your head up, its a man's game out there.

I just wanted to say that I'm a Canuck fan who was absolutely ashamed of the fans that did that to our city!! I'm still sore about the whole thing and quite embarrased!! But there are good fans here!!!

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You're right... in 2017, his contract will definitely be easier to move!

Nuck fans only have 6 years to wait.

Um...

And our point is, we likely won't want to trade him before then.

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And our point is, we likely won't want to trade him before then.

No your point is you guys cant trade him before then! Who cares if you want to or not, its really whether Luongo wants to move elsewhere or not.

Since everyone knows he can't be traded because of the NTC, everyone just says they want him here.

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You're right... in 2017, his contract will definitely be easier to move!

Nuck fans only have 6 years to wait.

Um...

According to capgeek the actual salary of 6.714 runs until the end of 2017-18. Then 3.882, 1.618 followed by 2 years of 1.0. By then he'll be 39 & happily retired with most of the money growing in his portfolio.

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Switch gears for a bit... SCHEDULES.

What the hell is going on in the Saddledome between Dec 22 and Jan 5th that the Flames don't have a home date?

a 7 game road trip? Edit: oh yeah the World Jr's!

After the edmonton home game on Sat,

- starts a 4 gm road trip for the flames: Nas, TB, Fla, Chi

- finally come home for 2, only to be rewarded with the Wild and Wings.

- then starts the 7 gamer: Van, CBJ, Isles, Ott, Nas, Was, Bos.

- come home to see the Wild..

- 3 back-to-backs. All obviously with travel. TB-Fla, Det-Van, NYI-Ott.

23 days - 13 game days.

What a fricken run that's gonna be. Make or break time. Can't wait to see what happens.

Predictions anyone?

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No your point is you guys cant trade him before then! Who cares if you want to or not, its really whether Luongo wants to move elsewhere or not.

Since everyone knows he can't be traded because of the NTC, everyone just says they want him here.

If we don't want to trade him though, why does it matter what his value is?

I don't care what the value of my great-grandmothers wedding wing is, because I don't want to sell it.

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That's just fine with Flames fans!

Is that because of the tremendous success you've had against him the last couple seasons?

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Is that because of the tremendous success you've had against him the last couple seasons?

Is that the rallying cry for Nuck fans now? He can't win a cup but he can beat the Flames!

Enjoy Nuckers, enjoy.

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Is that the rallying cry for Nuck fans now? He can't win a cup but he can beat the Flames!

Enjoy Nuckers, enjoy.

Better trade Kipper then. He can't win the cup OR beat the Nucks!

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Better trade Kipper then. He can't win the cup OR beat the Nucks!

At least he COULD be traded (if the Flames wanted to)

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At least he COULD be traded (if the Flames wanted to)

Fine. In the hypothetical situation that both the Canucks and Flames wanted to trade their #1 goalies right now, Kipper would be easier to trade. Mainly because the Canucks need Luongo to continue to rise up the standings and the Flames don't need Kipper to fall to a lottery pick position.

Happy? :)

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