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Discussion & Debate Thread: Flames and Canucks

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Fine. In the hypothetical situation that both the Canucks and Flames wanted to trade their #1 goalies right now, Kipper would be easier to trade. Mainly because the Canucks need Luongo to continue to rise up the standings and the Flames don't need Kipper to fall to a lottery pick position.

Happy? :)

I'm happy that "our rise up the standings" or our "number one goaltender" never led to any riots.

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I'm happy that "our rise up the standings" or our "number one goaltender" never led to any riots.

Kipper ruining it for you guys again...

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Kipper ruining it for you guys again...

Where you in the Riot of 2011? I have this weird feeling that we're going to see the The_Don get charged for the events that took place after game 7. You seem like that type of individual!

hahahahahaha

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Where you in the Riot of 2011? I have this weird feeling that we're going to see the The_Don get charged for the events that took place after game 7. You seem like that type of individual!

hahahahahaha

Hey Derf...

what's your take on the bet so far?

Vancouver - 6pts out of 1st, 6pts out of 10th

Calgary - 1 pt of 10th, a few more than that out of 1st.

30 gms in tomorrow... i'm smelling a Derf-free forum next April...

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Is that the rallying cry for Nuck fans now? He can't win a cup but he can beat the Flames!

Enjoy Nuckers, enjoy.

Not a rallying cry ( although i do enjoy watching him beat the Flames) but is that the rallying cry for Flames fans ? Even though your team cant beat him ( he is 9-0-2 in his last 11 starts vs Calgary) he lost Game 7 in the finals, so therefore he sucks.

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The stats.... 40 game mark (season's halfway mark for the flames)..

Canucks - (Flames)

10 gms: 4-5-1, 9 pts. 3rd in the div, 10th in the W, 20th overall. (Cal: last in the div, 14th in the W, 26th overall)

20 gms: 10-9-1, 21 pts. 3rd in the div, 11th in the W, 21st overall. (8-11-1, last in div, 13th in W, 27th overall)

30 gms: 18-10-2, 38 pts. 2nd in the div, 5th in the W, 7th overall. ( 14-14-2, 4th in div, 11th, in W, 23rd overall)

40 gms: 24-13-3, 51 pts. 1st in the div, 2nd in the West, 3rd overall. (18-18-5, 4th in div, 12th in W, 22nd overall)

Goals/gm

10 gms: 2.40, 19th (20th)

20 gms: 2.90, 9th (27th)

30 gms: 3.23, 3rd (23rd)

40 gms: 3.25, 3rd (25th)

GA/gm

10 gms: 2.80, 22nd (20th)

20 gms: 2.80, 18th (17th)

30 gms: 2.37, 7th (16th)

40 gms: 2.40, 7th (13th)

PP%

10 gms: 19.2, 10th (12th)

20 gms: 26.7, 1st (22th)

30 gms: 25.6, 1st (22nd)

40 gms: 23.9 1st, (18th)

PPG

10 gms: 9, 4th (20th)

20 gms: 24, 1st (25th)

30 gms: 33, 1st (24th)

40 gms: 37, 1st (17th)

PK%

10 gms: 86.0, 12th (17th)

20 gms: 85.4, 10th (23th)

30 gms: 86.6, 6th (17th)

40 gms: 86.0, 7th (16th)

PPGA

10 gms: 6, 13th (11th)

20 gms: 12, 10th (18th)

30 gms: 16, 8th (13th)

40 gms: 22, 9th (16th)

5-on-5 Ratio

10 gms: 0.75 27th (13th)

20 gms: 0.80, 24th (20th)

30 gms: 1.12, 9th (16th)

40 gms: 1.21, 6th (21st)

Plus/Minus

10 gms: -7, 29th (25th)

20 gms: -10, 25th (22nd)

30 gms: +9, 7th (19th)

40 gms: +19, 5th (24th)

Faceoffs

10 gms: 52.2, 6th (25th)

20 gms: 52.3, 4th (30th)

30 gms: 52.4, 4th (30th)

40 gms: 52.2, 3rd (30th)

SoG

10 gms: 33.3, 6th (21st)

20 gms: 32.8, 6th (25th)

30 gms: 32.3, 6th (22nd)

40 gms: 31.8, 6th (24th)

SoGA

10 gms: 26.8, 5th (15th)

20 gms: 28.6, 10th (18th)

30 gms: 28.8, 8th (13th)

40 gms: 29.9, 13th (15th)

Hits

10 gms: 227, 6th (25th)

20 gms: 430, 16th (27th)

30 gms: 657, 14th (27th)

40 gms: 889, 10th (22nd)

Blocked Shots

10 gms: 106, 26th (17th)

20 gms: 208, 30th (11th)

30 gms: 350, 28th (13th)

40 gms: 463, 28th) (14th)

Giveaways

10 gms: 71, 18th (29th)

20 gms: 130, 6th, (29th)

30 gms: 199, 8th, (28th)

40 gms: 271, 10th (26th)

Takeaways

10 gms: 76, 6th (11th)

20 gms: 128, 22th (4th)

30 gms: 190, 21st (4th)

40 gms: 245, 20th (4th)

Numbers continue to reflect what we all know about the 2 teams at this point.

-One's climbing back into the league's elite.. now sit 3rd overall a single point back of the Hawks for 1st in the Western division...

-The other a middling 500 team, mediocre in most areas statistically. Still looking for some traction in midst of their longest road trip of the yr... 2 win in their last 6 on the road.. 3 wins in their 10 on the road. Can't get back to home ice fast enough. But will they be able to easily flick a switch back into the win column? hmmm... i wonder.. with all their injuries as well..

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Earlier TSN was talking about Bolland ripping the Sedin "sisters" (he called them that) on a radio show in Chicago. Sounds like he didn't have nice things to say about the other Canucks nor the city of Vancouver either.

BLACKHAWKS' BOLLAND RIPS SEDIN 'SISTERS' ON RADIO TALK SHOW - TSN.CA STAFF - 12/14/2011

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Earlier TSN was talking about Bolland ripping the Sedin "sisters" (he called them that) on a radio show in Chicago. Sounds like he didn't have nice things to say about the other Canucks nor the city of Vancouver either.

BLACKHAWKS' BOLLAND RIPS SEDIN 'SISTERS' ON RADIO TALK SHOW - TSN.CA STAFF - 12/14/2011

"Well, they'll never become Hawks," he said. "I don't think we'd let them on our team. We'd be sure not to let them on our team. And, yeah, they probably still would be sisters. I think they might sleep in, like, bunk beds. The older one has the bottom one, the younger one got the top."

Bolland.. Mr. Originality.

Wouldn't be considered original even if he was 14.

He came across as such an idiot. AV's quote seems bang on.

Blackhawks’ Dave Bolland and his tired Sedin Sisters act

Puck Daddy summarizes and responds..

http://ca.sports.yahoo.com/nhl/blog/puck_daddy/post/Blackhawks-8217-Dave-Bolland-and-his-tired-Sed?urn=nhl-wp19832

"Sedin Sisters" is just titillation, red meat for the critics -- even when the critics are fellow Canucks fans. Much like it was red meat for the Boston Bruins fans when Mike Milbury called them "Thelma and Louise" in the playoffs, in an utterly misguided analogy.

And that's the only point we'll make about these otherwise harmless comments by Bolland about the Sedins: They're lazy.

"Cindy Crosby" is lazy. "Lauren Pronger" is lazy. "Danielle Briere" is lazy. These are chrips you'd hear at open mic night at Milbury's; that alone should tell you they've passed their expiration date.

Personally, the bigger news here is that a member of the Chicago Blackhawks would "be sure not to let" two of the NHL's leading scorers on their team. Now why is that?

Now i know Bolland isn't smart enough to actually have an agenda (he was guided by the interviewers and playing to his audience)... but he got comments out of AV, Gillis and a couple players on the topic...

AV : “When you have comments like Bolland’s, obviously (it’s) an individual who’s IQ is probably the size of a bird seed and he’s got a face that only a mother could look at,”

“Obviously, in my mind such a classy organization like Chicago I’m sure that they’re not too happy about that and I’m sure the NHL isn’t too happy about that. We’re not talking about junior league here or a bush league. We’re talking about National Hockey League where they have professional players where they get involved in community and society who all do a hard line of work and they do it the best way they can. To have guys like this trying to act like comedians it’s just not the right thing to do.”

So true:

#Canucks Bieksa saying, "if it wasn't for the twins, I don't think anyone would hear about Dave Bolland..." #truth

And soooo funny:

@BotchonCanucks: Bieksa on Bolland: "If he doesn't want them on his team, he's crazy. Probably b/c he'd be out of a roster spot"

Henrik's comments - professional.

“Who cares?” Sedin told reporters. “I have a lot of respect for a lot of guys on that team. We’re not playing them for another few weeks so I don’t know what that came from.”

The bolded - difference between the teams.

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"Well, they'll never become Hawks," he said. "I don't think we'd let them on our team. We'd be sure not to let them on our team. And, yeah, they probably still would be sisters. I think they might sleep in, like, bunk beds. The older one has the bottom one, the younger one got the top."

Bolland.. Mr. Originality.

Wouldn't be considered original even if he was 14.

He came across as such an idiot. AV's quote seems bang on.

Blackhawks’ Dave Bolland and his tired Sedin Sisters act

Puck Daddy summarizes and responds..

http://ca.sports.yahoo.com/nhl/blog/puck_daddy/post/Blackhawks-8217-Dave-Bolland-and-his-tired-Sed?urn=nhl-wp19832

Now i know Bolland isn't smart enough to actually have an agenda (he was guided by the interviewers and playing to his audience)... but he got comments out of AV, Gillis and a couple players on the topic...

AV : “When you have comments like Bolland’s, obviously (it’s) an individual who’s IQ is probably the size of a bird seed and he’s got a face that only a mother could look at,”

How is AV's quote classier or more grownup?

Comparing Bolland's brain size to birdseed & using the tired "a face only a mother could love" line doesn't exactly speak of maturity.

I do agree that the interviewers set the scene & used leading questions to set Bolland up. The ratings on that show must have gone up when these comments started.

*Thanks to whoever added the link. I hadn't read the article & was going off the sound-byte I saw on tv.*

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How is AV's quote classier or more grownup?

Who said or claimed they were?

Bolland's comments were clearly the calibre of an elementry student and something his own teammates will be embarrassed of.

AV's comments although completely accurrate and more funny, were immature as well... But if you look at the whole quote in its context... the difference is obvious.

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Edited: Dec 22nd

Luongo's split stats this season.

Totals:

14-6-2, 2.46, 0.913 Sv%

In context:

Numbers in Oct:

3-3-1, 3.54 GAA, 0.869 Sv%

Numbers in Nov:

4-2, 2.30 GAA, 0.924 Sv%

Numbers in Dec:

7-1-1, 1.71 GAA, 0.939 Sv%

In Starts since the calender flipped to Nov:

11-2-1, 1.82 GAA, 0.938 Sv%

Last 8 Starts - since he returned from injury and took over for Schneider's good run:

7-0-1, 1.46 GAA, 0.949 Sv%

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Luongo's split stats this season.

Totals:

13-6-2, 2.48, 0.910 Sv%

In context:

Numbers in Oct:

3-3-1, 3.54 GAA, 0.869 Sv%

Numbers in Nov:

4-2, 2.30 GAA, 0.924 Sv%

Numbers in Dec:

6-1-1, 1.67 GAA, 0.937 Sv%

In Starts since the calender flipped to Nov:

10-2-1, 1.81 GAA, 0.936 Sv%

Last 7 Starts - since he returned from injury and took over for Schneider's good run:

6-0-1, 1.38 GAA, 0.944 Sv%

* As usual this should work as a jinx post for Luongo's numbers... but at this point - On Fire... In Vezina form.

I wouldn't say in Vezina form as that category is for Tim Thomas and him only. Thomas is on a level way above what Luongo is at even with his last 7 start numbers, that means nothing when you are comparing to an elite goaltender like Thomas.

You could say he's playing the best hockey he ever has or ever will but other than that nothing outstanding that Kipper hasn't already done in the past.

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I wouldn't say in Vezina form as that category is for Tim Thomas and him only. Thomas is on a level way above what Luongo is at even with his last 7 start numbers, that means nothing when you are comparing to an elite goaltender like Thomas.

You could say he's playing the best hockey he ever has or ever will but other than that nothing outstanding that Kipper hasn't already done in the past.

That's like me randomly saying Iginla's recent performance means nothing compared to Malkin and Giroux because they are elite and on levels way above him right now...

See how that has nothing to do with the discussion of present performance?

Anyways.

Luongo seemed to continue his run despite the jinx post... shocking.

7-0-1, 1.46 GAA, 0.949 Sv%

* Just a random question... Why is Thomas getting full credit despite the outstanding offensive team in front of him, yet that worked as a point against Luongo all last yr and this yr?... hmmm.

- I ask since its inevitable to soon see the post "Luongo is good only because of the team in front of him"... yeah, no kidding. But Luongo was bad in Oct because it was all him? hmmm.

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I wouldn't say in Vezina form as that category is for Tim Thomas and him only. Thomas is on a level way above what Luongo is at even with his last 7 start numbers, that means nothing when you are comparing to an elite goaltender like Thomas.

You could say he's playing the best hockey he ever has or ever will but other than that nothing outstanding that Kipper hasn't already done in the past.

Any predictions on tomorrow's road game vs the Canucks derf? How do your Calgary Flames compare and matchup to the Vancouver Canucks?

I know you disappear from these boards after every Canuck win over the flames... or you "get busy" or "travel" or "fix a lot of glass"..

I'm hoping for another extended absence after tomorrow's game.

Thoughts on the bet? Are you expecting a big second half swing moving the Flames closer to 1st in the West than 10th?

Present bet status:

- Flames in 12th, 1 pt out of 10th... 14 pts out of 1st.

- Canucks in 4th, 4 pts out of 1st... 9 pts out of 10th.

- Canucks 10 pts clear of the Flames.

- Last page there is a statistical comparison of the 2 teams at 30 gms. Your early season predictions so far have been waaaaaaay off. But it's a long season.

Not quite sure... but its possible we just may be Derf-free for a yr... or are you bernard? hmmmm...

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OK... An actual point of discussion and debate here for the forum....

Lots of previous discussion on the 2 top Flame/Canuck prospects over the past 3 yrs...

Backlund vs Cody Hodgson.

Their past comparisons of their prospect yrs was an obvious one-sided affair with all of Hodgson's accomplishmnets...

But the intriguing question was always - Which player was going to make the better NHL player?

Hodgson's early career back injury had many canuck fan and others sour very hard on Hodgson and jump on the 'bust' word before he even played a single NHL game. Those people are eating some crow now.. but who cares...

Moving forward...

I've loved what i've seen out of Hodgson's rookie yr this yr, and i'm extremely excited about his potential, and his future with the Canucks...

I've followed and read the same love affair you guys have had with Backlund.

So... How do you see these 2 players compared to each other in the NHL presently... or in the future?

Running some numbers...

Keeping in mind Backlund is a year older than Hodgson and yr more seasoned...

Comparison of their rookie yrs:

Backlund 73gms 10g 15a 25pts, 12:04/gm, 16.7 shifts/gm, 0:55 SH/gm, 0:36 PP/gm, 4 PP pts

0.48 hits/gm, 0.26 BS/gm, 1.42 Twy-Gwy ratio, 48.0% FO

Hodgson 34gms 7g 10a 17pts, 12:40/gm, 18.5 Shifts/gm, 1:49 PP/gm, 6 PP pts

0.56 hits/gm, 0.24 BS/gm, 1.67 Twy-Gwy ratio, 51.7% FO

Canucks are a higher scoring team.

Adjusting pts for team scoring...

Calgary - 241g in 82 gms.

Vancouver - 113g in 34 gms. (so decreasing 13% from CH totals)

So Hodgson's adjusted scoring rate this yr so it compares to Backlund would drop from it's present pace of 41 to 36pts over 82 gms. last yr Backlund 82 gm pace was 28pts. Not too far off. But we all know people ignore all that and they'll just the look at the raw numbers anyway...

It's tough comparing players on different quality teams with different quality personnel considering ice time, opportunity, use, system, etc... but simply adjust the teams goal total helps to a certain degree...

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Any predictions on tomorrow's road game vs the Canucks derf? How do your Calgary Flames compare and matchup to the Vancouver Canucks?

I know you disappear from these boards after every Canuck win over the flames... or you "get busy" or "travel" or "fix a lot of glass"..

I'm hoping for another extended absence after tomorrow's game.

Thoughts on the bet? Are you expecting a big second half swing moving the Flames closer to 1st in the West than 10th?

Present bet status:

- Flames in 12th, 1 pt out of 10th... 14 pts out of 1st.

- Canucks in 4th, 4 pts out of 1st... 9 pts out of 10th.

- Canucks 10 pts clear of the Flames.

- Last page there is a statistical comparison of the 2 teams at 30 gms. Your early season predictions so far have been waaaaaaay off. But it's a long season.

Not quite sure... but its possible we just may be Derf-free for a yr... or are you bernard? hmmmm...

I'm usually busy out of town on business, something you might not know about. I don't need to disappear, it's you who should disappear from our boards. Let me just remind you that the Flames rolled over the Canucks prior to Christmas! hahahaha Backlund pwned Hodgson, Hodgson looked like a 4th line plumber who should be a career AHL'r. Backlund had a sweet GWG. How do you like dem apples?

My predictions aren't way off. We're only 6 points from 2nd place in the conference. I'd be afraid if I were you DL, as you know, Calgary is clutch down the stretch.

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I'm usually busy out of town on business, something you might not know about. I don't need to disappear, it's you who should disappear from our boards. Let me just remind you that the Flames rolled over the Canucks prior to Christmas! hahahaha Backlund pwned Hodgson, Hodgson looked like a 4th line plumber who should be a career AHL'r. Backlund had a sweet GWG. How do you like dem apples?

My predictions aren't way off. We're only 6 points from 2nd place in the conference. I'd be afraid if I were you DL, as you know, Calgary is clutch down the stretch.

How so?

And what's to be afraid of if i automatically win when the Canucks finish 1st in the Conference?

- I like the Canucks to catch the Hawks. The Hawks are running on the edge here... scooping up a lot of wins in comebacks, one-goal games and OT... they rarely put together a 60 min game and rely on their all-world superstars to pull games out of the gutter after 40 lackluster mins...

Don't like their depth... but they just bench em when it matters and ride their horses anyway. and it's working.. now. I don't see it working for 82 and/or playoffs.

-inferior speed, D depth, ineffective forward depth, inferior special teams, inferior goaltending.

They will come back to where they belong soon enough... below the Canucks in the standings.

But enough about the Hawks...

It's amazing how your schedule frees up after Flames put a few wins together...

On the critical season determining 13 gm stretch, the flames are now 4-2-2... 4 straight wins. 5 more before returning to the friendly confines of the Saddledome where they are 7-0-1 in he last 8....

So far so good... and has re-energized derf for a few more outbursts for now.

---

Backlund: 22gms, 3g 1a 4 pts

Last 5: 1g, 1 pts, -1, 15.6 mins/gm

Hodgson: 36gms, 7g 12a 19pts

Last 5: 1g, 3a, 4pts, +2, 12.3 mins/gm

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How so?

And what's to be afraid of if i automatically win when the Canucks finish 1st in the Conference?

- I like the Canucks to catch the Hawks. The Hawks are running on the edge here... scooping up a lot of wins in comebacks, one-goal games and OT... they rarely put together a 60 min game and rely on their all-world superstars to pull games out of the gutter after 40 lackluster mins...

Don't like their depth... but they just bench em when it matters and ride their horses anyway. and it's working.. now. I don't see it working for 82 and/or playoffs.

-inferior speed, D depth, ineffective forward depth, inferior special teams, inferior goaltending.

They will come back to where they belong soon enough... below the Canucks in the standings.

But enough about the Hawks...

It's amazing how your schedule frees up after Flames put a few wins together...

On the critical season determining 13 gm stretch, the flames are now 4-2-2... 4 straight wins. 5 more before returning to the friendly confines of the Saddledome where they are 7-0-1 in he last 8....

So far so good... and has re-energized derf for a few more outbursts for now.

---

Backlund: 22gms, 3g 1a 4 pts

Last 5: 1g, 1 pts, -1, 15.6 mins/gm

Hodgson: 36gms, 7g 12a 19pts

Last 5: 1g, 3a, 4pts, +2, 12.3 mins/gm

Your Bolded comment is the funniest thing I ever read. Considering the fact that the Canucks rely heavily on scoring from their own top players Sedins, Keslers, Burrows.

In comparison, we are getting consistent scoring now from Joks, Iggy, GlenX, Borky, BMo, Stempy, Tangs, Backs. Gio would be in the top D scoring in the NHL if it wasn't for his injury, probably would have boosted up JBo stats too. The Calgary roster has more depth than Vancouver's that is forsure.

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Your Bolded comment is the funniest thing I ever read. Considering the fact that the Canucks rely heavily on scoring from their own top players Sedins, Keslers, Burrows.

In comparison, we are getting consistent scoring now from Joks, Iggy, GlenX, Borky, BMo, Stempy, Tangs, Backs. Gio would be in the top D scoring in the NHL if it wasn't for his injury, probably would have boosted up JBo stats too. The Calgary roster has more depth than Vancouver's that is forsure.

How well did Gio boost JBo's stats the last 2 yrs when he was healthy?

Calgary more scoring depth than the Canucks? hmmm..

Just because you type something doesn't make it true... :lol: .

Calgary - 4 players with more than 15 pts.

Vancouver - 10 players with more than 15 pts.

Calgary - 6 players with 5 or more goals.

Vancouver - 11 players with 5 or more goals.

Hodgson has more goals than BMo and Backlund combined in 6 less gms... he even has more pts as well.. hell so do 4 of the vancouver D.

Speaking of Dmen scoring depth...

Calgary D totals - 9 goals

Vancouver D totals - 23 goals

Team overall... Vancouver has scored 31 more goals than Calgary on the yr.

Top 3 goal scorers

Calgary - Glencross-14, Iginla-14, Jokinen-12 = 40 goals

Vancouver - Sedin-15, Burrows-14, HANSEN-11 = 40 goals

With the team's top scorers cancelling each other out, it means Vancouver's depth is outscoring Calgary's by 31!

(Hansen is a 3rd liner by the way)

Keep em coming derfy... i like that you don't allow facts get in the way of a good post.. and at least it gives me an excuse to post the numbers... forsure.

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How well did Gio boost JBo's stats the last 2 yrs when he was healthy?

Calgary more scoring depth than the Canucks? hmmm..

Just because you type something doesn't make it true... :lol: .

Calgary - 4 players with more than 15 pts.

Vancouver - 10 players with more than 15 pts.

Calgary - 6 players with 5 or more goals.

Vancouver - 11 players with 5 or more goals.

Hodgson has more goals than BMo and Backlund combined in 6 less gms... he even has more pts as well.. hell so do 4 of the vancouver D.

Speaking of Dmen scoring depth...

Calgary D totals - 9 goals

Vancouver D totals - 23 goals

Team overall... Vancouver has scored 31 more goals than Calgary on the yr.

Top 3 goal scorers

Calgary - Glencross-14, Iginla-14, Jokinen-12 = 40 goals

Vancouver - Sedin-15, Burrows-14, HANSEN-11 = 40 goals

With the team's top scorers cancelling each other out, it means Vancouver's depth is outscoring Calgary's by 31!

(Hansen is a 3rd liner by the way)

Keep em coming derfy... i like that you don't allow facts get in the way of a good post.. and at least it gives me an excuse to post the numbers... forsure.

You forget to take into an account that anyone on Brent Sutter's system plays a highly defensive game. We're not going to blow out teams that are below us because we have much more class than Vancouver. The fact that you guys have more goals is you play some teams on their off night and then try to embarrass them by running up the score board, that's not what Calgary is about. When we have a 2-3 goal lead, we start sitting our top guys, but I noticed in a couple of your games, you guys continue to play your #1 powerplay when it's 4-0.

Our players are more deep because of the roles they play, we get our scoring spread out. Vancouver's D? I really never heard of any of them. Don't think any of them will make the All-star team, and the only reason the Sister's will make it - is because the league feels sorry for them because every one calls them Sisters.

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See derf.. this is why you are so valuable to this board. We learn soo much from you...forsure.

Goals/gm is actually an inverse measure of class!

LA appears to be the classiest team in the league... and Boston is the least classy.

And Calgary is classier than 24 other teams in the league!

:lol:

keep em coming...

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Canucks took derf's advice tonight. After going up 4-0 on the Ducks they let them score a couple, as to not hurt their ego's too badly.

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