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rosalie52

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I havn't been all that impresssed with cito. I'm not saying I would prefer Gibbons, but all in all Cito has been average at best. I think he's done a good job handling the rotation and the pen, but his lineups are pretty questionable. I think he should be punishing Wells someonewhat and not contining to leave him in the heart of the order.

I'm hoping Encarnation will come around. I was really happy to get him becuase I like his upside but he's definetly struggled. I'm hoping that a full offseason with the Jays can help him out.

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Wow just noticed their record against each division and it is just sad that the teams that have taken them out of contention are the teams they needed to beat most T Bay, Boston and NY. Against the other two divisions they have a good edge over both Boston and Tampa, but they hold the second worst wp against their own division in the league. That is just unacceptable for 3 division teams to completely dominate you for a season series.

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Nice win last night though for the Jays, too bad it took a complete meltdown by J.P. Howell to give them the win. Walking two guys, and throwing three wild pitches in the ninth of a tie game was the recipe for the Rays disaster. We'll take it though!

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[quote name='cross16 wrote:


I havn't been all that impresssed with cito. I'm not saying I would prefer Gibbons, but all in all Cito has been average at best. I think he's done a good job handling the rotation and the pen, but his lineups are pretty questionable. I think he should be punishing Wells someonewhat and not contining to leave him in the heart of the order.

I'm hoping Encarnation will come around. I was really happy to get him becuase I like his upside but he's definetly struggled. I'm hoping that a full offseason with the Jays can help him out.I'd have to agree with the lineup, but disagree with the bullpen.  Cito seems to have his favorites to go to in the pen, and I feel that's really cost the Jays.  Regardless of who these favorites are, he puts them out there even when they're doing HORRIBLE.  At the beginning of the season, it was Jesse Carlson.  The guy just couldn't get guys out.  I'm sure he kept throwing him out there mid july, which is about the time his workload decreased and he doesn't get many high pressure situations.  BJ Ryan was another good example when he was the closer at the beginning of the season.  He blew saves on numerous occasions and it took an injury to get him out of that role.  Then there was Downs after he started closing, who also continued to get work although he was no better than BJ.  And now recently it's Brandon League.  The guy doesn't pitch, he throws (albeit, hard).  With an ERA over 5.00, you don't throw him out there when you're only down by one run.  The other day, League started jogging out from the bullpen and my dad simply said "Uh oh... guess they don't want to win this one."  What does League do?  Gives up a home run on the very first pitch.  Yet guys that are doing well, such as Frasor or Accardo, don't get the light of day.  

senor_incendiarse
wrote:

Wow just noticed their record against each division and it is just sad that the teams that have taken them out of contention are the teams they needed to beat most T Bay, Boston and NY. Against the other two divisions they have a good edge over both Boston and Tampa, but they hold the second worst wp against their own division in the league. That is just unacceptable for 3 division teams to completely dominate you for a season series.

Yup... Truely unfortunate, due to the fact that it wasn't that way over the past couple of years.  The Jays of the past few years earned the reputation that they couldn't beat the weaker teams in the league, such as KC, yet had an over .500 record against the powerhouses of Boston and New York.  My guess is that it was poor managing of talented teams, because, to me, that's the only thing that makes any sense at all.

cannedice99']Nice win last night though for the Jays, too bad it took a complete meltdown by J.P. Howell to give them the win. Walking two guys, and throwing three wild pitches in the ninth of a tie game was the recipe for the Rays disaster. We'll take it though!
That was truly a fun game to watch (for once).  I was supposed to go pick up a few things, but never actually watching a live game on TV where the pitcher threw a no-hitter before, I figured I'd stay until TB got a hit.  It ended up delaying my trip a couple of hours, but it was worth it to see Zep throw 5 2/3 hitless.  I doubt he would have made it the full distance, due to his high pitch count.  Walking 5 guys will do that to you, though.  He managed throw 116 pitches over just 6 innings of work.

I just looked at Howell's stats, and it's really sickening to see how many saves he's blown.  He's blown 7 saves altogether in 22 Save opportunities.  Say he only blows 2 of those 7, they're now 1 game back of the wild card.  I'm really suprised that Joe Madden still sends him out there for the 9th inning duties

  

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[quote name='conn_smythe wrote:


cross16
']I havn't been all that impresssed with cito. I'm not saying I would prefer Gibbons, but all in all Cito has been average at best. I think he's done a good job handling the rotation and the pen, but his lineups are pretty questionable. I think he should be punishing Wells someonewhat and not contining to leave him in the heart of the order.

I'm hoping Encarnation will come around. I was really happy to get him becuase I like his upside but he's definetly struggled. I'm hoping that a full offseason with the Jays can help him out.

I'd have to agree with the lineup, but disagree with the bullpen.  Cito seems to have his favorites to go to in the pen, and I feel that's really cost the Jays.  Regardless of who these favorites are, he puts them out there even when they're doing HORRIBLE.  At the beginning of the season, it was Jesse Carlson.  The guy just couldn't get guys out.  I'm sure he kept throwing him out there mid july, which is about the time his workload decreased and he doesn't get many high pressure situations.  BJ Ryan was another good example when he was the closer at the beginning of the season.  He blew saves on numerous occasions and it took an injury to get him out of that role.  Then there was Downs after he started closing, who also continued to get work although he was no better than BJ.  And now recently it's Brandon League.  The guy doesn't pitch, he throws (albeit, hard).  With an ERA over 5.00, you don't throw him out there when you're only down by one run.  The other day, League started jogging out from the bullpen and my dad simply said "Uh oh... guess they don't want to win this one."  What does League do?  Gives up a home run on the very first pitch.  Yet guys that are doing well, such as Frasor or Accardo, don't get the light of day.  

  

I agree, but I chalk that up to JP not cito. JP, once again, made a mistake with the bullpen. Likes JP's done his whole career, rather than looking at the whole book on a player, he'd rather go by their best year. IMO, Carlson and Camp pitched out of their minds last year. Yet, he assumes they'll be the same so doens't acquire any bullpen help. Then injuries have really stretched their depth, so they are having to over pitch some bullpen guys becuase the starters also arn't lasting long enough overal.

Yeah, there is are definetly lots of times I disagree with this decision, but at the same time he can't really give up on these guys and never pitch them. I mean League has come in many times and slammed the door even with needed. They can't really go away from him just becuase they dont' trust him to with they are down or up a run. They arn't in a playoff race so why potentially harm a pitcher? I think that factors in aswell.

  

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Good job for last night's came though.

Lind really's come a long way and been just wonderful this season, and good job to Doc and the gang shutting out the Yanks.

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My question is should we be expecting anything different next season? I don't see the Jays being real active in the free agency, so I don't expect too many significant chances. I guess the upside is some of the younger arms having a year under their belt....

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My question is should we be expecting anything different next season? I don't see the Jays being real active in the free agency, so I don't expect too many significant chances. I guess the upside is some of the younger arms having a year under their belt....
If we could actually maybe try to get a big hitter who can get us somewhere to convince Halladay to stay, I'd be thrilled.

  

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I expect it to be another good 2 likely 3 seasons before the Jays are considered competitive. The FA market this year is not a very good one for the Jays needs. I think they need a true closer, SS, Catcher and potentially a starter depending on their injury situation. Out of all of that, they still need a true cleanup hitter too. The market is very thin for SS and catcher, but solid in relievers. However, I expect the Jays to once again overrate their bullpen and do nothing with it, nor do I expect them to be active in FA given they are having so much turnover in the front office, likely turnover anyway, and are cutting salary.

They've got some young guys to be excited about but not enough IMO. I think about the only exciting thing about the Jays offseason is the likely firing of JP.

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EVERYBODY REJOICE!!!!!!!!!!!!

LOOK TO THE HEAVENS, ITS FINALLY, FINALLY SHINNING DOWN ON BLUE JAYS FANS!!!!!!


Ricciardi out as Blue Jays GM

A few years too late,but still finally a good sign from the Blue Jays. Going to be a major rebuilding in the offseason especially with some rumors floating around that Gaston is hatted by his players. either way, I do think a whole clean house is needed. New President, New GM, new manager, and a new vision.

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Nice to see that Beaston decided to take off the interm tag and become the Jays' full pleged President. It's good to see that we actually have someone that knows a thing or two about baseball, instead of focusing on bringing an NFL team to Toronto (Godfrey). I know that Rogers has hinted that they'd be willing to spend more money if Beaston stays on, so hopefully they follow through.

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I too was very happy to hear about Beaston. Right when they brought him in I was hoping that he would be permanent. the more I read about their GM hire the more I like him as well.

I'm not terribly thrilled about keeping Gaston but I really think they had no choice. I think they are still paying gibbons so to fire that many managers wouldn't be smart for a team hurting for dough. Correct me if i'm wrong. either way I also don't think it was Cito's fault but if he isn't your long term plan I don't get keeping him.

Arnsberg leaving was a bit of a suprise. However, over the years I have read multiple opinions that questioned his throwing program. The fact that so many pitchers with the Jays got injuries leads me to believe that there is a relation somehow.

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Yeah, I've read of a lot of people question his throwing program too.  Only time will tell if the injuries are reduced or not.

Not sure if your on twitter or not, but Dirk Hayhurst tweets regularly and gives out prizes every so often.  If you want to follow him, his account is

TheGarfoose (a giraffe mixed with a moose in which he came up with).  He seems like a pretty good guy.. He just finished writing a book that's due out in March 2010 called "The Bullpen Gospels: A Non-prospect's Pursuit Of The Major Leagues And The Meaning Of Life"

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If lind can become a true cleanup hitter, which apprantly they want him to be next season, then this offence/team may not be as far away as I thought. They've lacked a true cleanup hitter since Delgado left and if Lind can be it, which I think he can be, it bodes well. Having a good clean up hitter just makes so many other hitters in your lineup better. Pitchers would have to throw more fastballs to Wells and that alone could get him back to his old self.

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Pretty unlikely.

I think the best way the Jays can improve their team is to get the best package for Halladay. I was not shocked at all about the report in the New York Times that he will not resign. I felt as soon as last season turned south, and the trade talks started, that he was gone. I just hope the Jays don't actually believe that a good option is to let him leave as a FA and take the compensation picks. Trade him and get some more MLB ready or closer to ready prospects.

I'd like to see them sign a player or two there. I'd really like to see a reliever come in, preferably who can throw gas, and the short stop figured out. A stop gap like a Cabrera who I think only signed for 1 yr 5 mill last year.

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Pretty unlikely.

I think the best way the Jays can improve their team is to get the best package for Halladay. I was not shocked at all about the report in the New York Times that he will not resign. I felt as soon as last season turned south, and the trade talks started, that he was gone. I just hope the Jays don't actually believe that a good option is to let him leave as a FA and take the compensation picks. Trade him and get some more MLB ready or closer to ready prospects.

I'd like to see them sign a player or two there. I'd really like to see a reliever come in, preferably who can throw gas, and the short stop figured out. A stop gap like a Cabrera who I think only signed for 1 yr 5 mill last year.

As much as I'd hate to see Halladay, I agree that you have to trade him.. I don't see why anyone is suprised with the report that came out of the NY times, it's basically old news.  Halladay has stated that he'd only resign if the Blue Jays were in place to win, and that is obviously not the case.  I've read that Boston is gunning hard, and IMO that's the best place for him to go if you want solid returns..  Rumor is that any deal would have to start with Clay Bucholz.. His stuff is so good that in his 2nd major league start he threw a no-hitter against Baltimore.  Though, what I like about him the most is that he's alot like Halladay.. He's hard working and you'll never hear him complain.  As well,  Casey Kelly's name has been thrown around.  By some Red Sox fan site, he was voted the Sox's top prospect by its members.  The guy is both a pitcher and SS, though I believe he's finally decided to focus on pitching.  Between A and Advanced-A ball, he managed a solid 2.08 ERA with 0.853 WHIP and a very good 7 SO/ 9 IP and 4.63 SO/BB..  If we could run away with those two prospects, I'd be very happy.  I'd also cheer for the Red Sox every 5th start

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I'd like to see them sign a player or two there. I'd really like to see a reliever come in, preferably who can throw gas, and the short stop figured out. A stop gap like a Cabrera who I think only signed for 1 yr 5 mill last year.
Well I dont think Alex Gonzalez is an upgrade over Scutaro.  Reports were that to trade Doc to the Angels Erick Aybar had to be part of it, but they wouldn't include him.  It would of been nice to get Aybar but it looks like ss might be a weaker position than last season. 

  

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