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rosalie52

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It makes sense to get Gonzalez though. Apparantly guys like Cabrera and Scutaro are holding out for multi year deals and money north of 5 million. Neither of which is smart for the Jays. Why commit to players you know are not long term solutions? and also they can't afford that type of money with the needs they have. I don't think the Gonzalez signing is great, but its not bad. They need more of a long term plan at short and that has to come via Halladay trade or the draft.

I knew they weren't going to upgrade Scutaro, just replace him. IMO, Scutaro is not even close to wroth the money he is going to get.

And most say that the Jays can't trade Halladay to the red sox or Yankees. I think thats BS. Who do they think is going to sign him if he becomes a free agent? You might as well trade him there if they give you the best package because he is likely heading there anyway. Get the best deal and who cares where he goes.

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[quote name=cross16 wrote:


It makes sense to get Gonzalez though. Apparantly guys like Cabrera and Scutaro are holding out for multi year deals and money north of 5 million. Neither of which is smart for the Jays. Why commit to players you know are not long term solutions? and also they can't afford that type of money with the needs they have. I don't think the Gonzalez signing is great, but its not bad. They need more of a long term plan at short and that has to come via Halladay trade or the draft.

I knew they weren't going to upgrade Scutaro, just replace him. IMO, Scutaro is not even close to wroth the money he is going to get.

And most say that the Jays can't trade Halladay to the red sox or Yankees. I think thats BS. Who do they think is going to sign him if he becomes a free agent? You might as well trade him there if they give you the best package because he is likely heading there anyway. Get the best deal and who cares where he goes.I have no problem with Gonzalez, either.  No point in signing Cabrera if he's asking for a boat load of money and you're not going to win.  People have also started to question Cabrera's arm strength and he's stated that he's willing to move to 2nd.  If that's the case, I'm not sure I'd want him.   There's certainly no reason signing Scutaro if you're going to get potentially a 1st round  Draft pick (the team that Scutaro signs with has to have a pick 16 or below and if that team signs a higher rated Type-A free agent, it'll be a 2nd, or 3rd, etc...) and a compesation pick between the 1st and 2nd round.  No point signing Barajas either for the same reason, although you'll only recieve a sandwich pick between the 1st and 2nd round.  I was never a huge Barajas fan, anyways, but I feel bad for him because he wants to return.  Though, if he really wants to come back he can accept arbitraton.

JP Riccardi was the one saying he didn't want to trade to the Red Sox or Yankees.  Alex Anthopoulos has stated he has no problem trading to the Red Sox or Yankees.  He's said that if he gets equal offers from a division rival and one from another team outside from the division, he's obviously going to trade out of the division.  But if a division rival offers a greater pakage, he'll have no problem pulling the trigger on the deal.

A new article on mlbtraderumors.com has stated that the Jays are looking for a major league ready arm and bat, plus prospects.  From the Red Sox, the Jays are intrested in Casey Kelly (the pitcher I talked about in a previous post) and Jesus Montero from the Yanks.  Montero is a highly rated catcher prospect in the Yankees system.  His offensive numbers are great, but some question his defensive abilities.  He's often listed as one of the best prospects in baseball.

lunarjames]Didnt Halladay say he wanted to play in the NL at the trade deadline?

I don't remember anything about that.  He only said that he wanted to play where he was going to make playoffs.

  

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[quote name='cross16 wrote:


It makes sense to get Gonzalez though. Apparantly guys like Cabrera and Scutaro are holding out for multi year deals and money north of 5 million. Neither of which is smart for the Jays. Why commit to players you know are not long term solutions? and also they can't afford that type of money with the needs they have. I don't think the Gonzalez signing is great, but its not bad. They need more of a long term plan at short and that has to come via Halladay trade or the draft.

I knew they weren't going to upgrade Scutaro, just replace him. IMO, Scutaro is not even close to wroth the money he is going to get.

And most say that the Jays can't trade Halladay to the red sox or Yankees. I think thats BS. Who do they think is going to sign him if he becomes a free agent? You might as well trade him there if they give you the best package because he is likely heading there anyway. Get the best deal and who cares where he goes.I have no problem with Gonzalez, either.  No point in signing Cabrera if he's asking for a boat load of money and you're not going to win.  People have also started to question Cabrera's arm strength and he's stated that he's willing to move to 2nd.  If that's the case, I'm not sure I'd want him.   There's certainly no reason signing Scutaro if you're going to get potentially a 1st round  Draft pick (the team that Scutaro signs with has to have a pick 16 or below and if that team signs a higher rated Type-A free agent, it'll be a 2nd, or 3rd, etc...) and a compesation pick between the 1st and 2nd round.  No point signing Barajas either for the same reason, although you'll only recieve a sandwich pick between the 1st and 2nd round.  I was never a huge Barajas fan, anyways, but I feel bad for him because he wants to return.  Though, if he really wants to come back he can accept arbitraton.

JP Riccardi was the one saying he didn't want to trade to the Red Sox or Yankees.  Alex Anthopoulos has stated he has no problem trading to the Red Sox or Yankees.  He's said that if he gets equal offers from a division rival and one from another team outside from the division, he's obviously going to trade out of the division.  But if a division rival offers a greater pakage, he'll have no problem pulling the trigger on the deal.

A new article on mlbtraderumors.com has stated that the Jays are looking for a major league ready arm and bat, plus prospects.  From the Red Sox, the Jays are intrested in Casey Kelly (the pitcher I talked about in a previous post) and Jesus Montero from the Yanks.  Montero is a highly rated catcher prospect in the Yankees system.  His offensive numbers are great, but some question his defensive abilities.  He's often listed as one of the best prospects in baseball.

Montero turns 20 tomorrow (Nov 28th), so he's still quite young.  This is the prospect report from minorleagueball.com

, C, Grade B+:
Season ended early due to injury, but hit .337/.389/.562 between Class A and Double-A before getting hurt. Outstanding bat, defense still questionable.

lunarjames']Didnt Halladay say he wanted to play in the NL at the trade deadline?

I don't remember anything about that.  He only said that he wanted to play where he was going to make playoffs.

  

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I don't mind the idea of trading to the Yanks or Red Sox if they offer the best package. They know they won't be competing in the next couple of years so if you get quality prospects from a division rival it helps in the long run as Halladay is getting older and its a chance to take the future from another team. If the Jays don't do it those teams will use the same prospects to get a proven vet from another team anyways.

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Looks like a trade for halladay to the phillies is all but certian..

It's rumored to be

Phillies get:

Halladay

Mariners get:

Cliff Lee

Blue Jays get:

Micheal Taylor (OF)

Travis D'Arnaud ©

and Phillip Aumont - A Canadian Pitcher

www.mlbtraderumors.com

Phils, Ms, Blue Jays Agree On Halladay-Cliff Lee Blockbuster

By Tim Dierkes [December 14 at 5:00pm CST]

5:00pm: ESPN's Jayson Starkheard this deal is close but not done.  He says Halladay's extensionwould be just three years and $60MM (starting in 2011), with possiblevesting options for another year or two.  Aside from Aumont, Stark saysthe Jays would get Phils catching prospect Travis D'Arnaud.  The Blue Jays have been asking for Phils outfield prospect Domonic Brown but have been offered Taylor.  The Mariners would also give an additional prospect.

3:56pm: Rosenthal and Morosi write that pitcher Phillippe Aumont of the Mariners and "possibly" outfielder Michael Taylor of the Phillies are among the players heading to Toronto in the trade.  They add that outfielder Michael Saunders and pitcher Brandon Morrow are "in play."  The FOX duo confirms an agreement is in place to send Halladay to the Phillies and Lee to the Mariners.  MLB.com's Jordan Bastian sees an official announcement Wednesday at the earliest. 

3:17pm: In an article, Heyman notes that Halladay's extension "is expected to be a formality" (though it may not be done today). Heyman appears certain that an agreement has been reached on aPhillies/Jays/Mariners deal that will net the Phils Halladay.  Lee'sagent Darek Braunecker hasn't heard anything, tweets Tyler Kepner of the New York Times.

2:56pm: Heyman tweetsthat a three-way deal has been agreed to with Halladay going to thePhillies and Lee to the Mariners.  The Phillies are now trying to signHalladay to an extension.  However, in a subsequent tweet,Heyman apologizes for a quick trigger finger and says that while the Msare confirmed as the third team he is checking to verify they'll getLee.  And MLB.com's Noah Coslov has no confirmed deal from Lee or the Ms.

2:36pm: Morosi tweets that MLB hasn't granted the Phils permission to negotiate with Halladay yet, but a deal "looks close."

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It looks like Aumont's going to the Phils for Lee, and the Jays are likely getting Kyle Drabek. Reports are that Taylor will get flipped to Oakland for Brett Wallace. It would be good to get someone who is pro ready, I think Drabek is still a year off Wallace maybe ready, but it is good to have a decent catching prospect thats something they haven't had in a real long time.

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Weird turn of events.  Frankly, I was liking the thought of Michael Taylor, but really they're about even.  In fact,  at the trade deadline this year MLB had Wallace ranked the 19th best prospect and Taylor the 20th best.

Michael Taylor's 2009 stats -  AA/AAA - .320/.395/.549 - though, most of that was in AA

compared to

Brett Wallace's 2009 stats - AA/AAA - .293/.367/.455 - and most of these stats were put up at AAA

Fun little fact is that the Blue Jays actually drafted Brett Wallace out of high school in the 42nd round of the 2005 draft, but he decided to go to college and was drafted in the 1st round by the Cardinals.

J.P. Arencibia is actually a really good catching prospect for the Jays, and he was actually predicted to be up in the majors right about the start of the coming year.  Unfortunately, he had a pretty big set back in AAA and it seems all the guy does is strike out.  He's got a good glove, and should be pretty a pretty good player if he manages to overcome his plate discipline issues.  JP actually hit more home runs than Wallace last year (all at AAA), despite playing in 20 less games.  So here's hoping that he'll have a break through next year.

Travis D'Arnaud is more of a defensive catcher than anything else and he doesn't exactly have great offensive numbers despite being at Single-A, but he's still only 20 so we'll have to see how he develops over the next couple of years.

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I too was liking the idea of Taylor but i'm ok with Wallace. They really don't have anything, especially in the short term, in the way of in field prospects. I've heard Wallace may have to end up at first becuase of his limited fielding ability but thats find too. They are not deep in infield prospects and have guys like Lind, Snider, and Wells in the outfield.

Drabik sounds like a real find. Lots of positive news and opinions on him so I like that. Personaly I would have liked a little more thought. I don't the Jays did poorly in this deal, but I don't think they exactly do great either. I would have liked to see one more even B level prospect in the deal.

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I agree that they could have gotten a little more perhaps someone who is ready for the bigs, I think Drabek could use another year in the minors, D'Arnaud is still likely a few years, Wallace will likely be given a good shot this spring.

Rumors I was hearing were that if they could rid themselves of Overbay that Lind might move to first, but like Wells it may be hard to move him.

John Buck was also picked up as a FA I don't think it was a bad pick up obviously not much out there for that position this year, he had injuries and may bounce back this year.

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I like the Buck signing for the same reason I like the Gonzalez one. Just get adequate guys to fill the position and don't overpay them or tie yourself up in term. big Problem with JP was he tied up alot of average players with alot of term. Bj ryan is a classic example. I like the the Jays are now realizing that Free agents or more stop gaps then anything so why fill up your term. Stay flexible for what comes in the future.

I would love to see Overbay dealt. What i'm actually hearing is that the Jays want LInd to DH and ideally Brett Wallace, who they acquired in the deal, to play first if he's ready but perhaps Lind if Wallace is not ready although he sure sounds like he is close.

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The Jays have traded Brandon League and Johermyn Chavez (A 20 year old prospect in Single-A) to Seattle for Brandon Morrow.  I never liked League in the first place, so I'm a huge fan of this deal.  Although Morrow has been plagued with injuries, he has a huge upside that could even see him in a #1ish role.  He'd have to be streched out though, because whenever Seattle tried to make the switch to a starter, he'd get hurt.  Near the end of the year, he 1 hit Oakland, so he has great stuff.

It's funny because on MLBTradeRumors.com,  they stated that it was Brandon League + Prospect for Morrow.  Well, all the M's fans were so convinced it would be one of the Jay's top prospects such as Snider/Wallace/Cecil.. Where as all the Jay's fans were thinking Arencibia or maybe Cooper..  Generally, there are a lot of biases when it's stated that a prospect will be in the trade and fans are trying to name the prospect.  Most of the time, it ends up being a guy somewhere in the middle.  Not this time.  I use minorleagueball.com for my prospect lists and rankings.  This guy, Chavez, isn't even on the top 20 (which is as many top prospects that it lists).  If Morrow stays healthy, this would be a HUGE win in my books.  Even if he doesn't, then IMO it's still not that big of a loss (due to for my hate for League).

AA has sure been able to Git er dun so far this off-season.. They should have fired JP years ago. 

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Can't agree more smythe. AA has really impressed me. He is aggressive, creative, and does his research. All things I don't think JP was. He was aggressive but only when it came to overpaying FA. I still shudder at the tought of them almost signing Gill Meche to a 10mill/yr deal.

I love the Morrow deal. When i first heard about the Halladay deal this guy was rumored to be in it and I got excited. Personally, I think he is their future closer as opposed to a future starter. I don't think he has the stamina and the arm style to be a legit starter. I prefer the idea of using him as their closer becuase I think he sets up better for that, and also the Jays are so shallow in bullpen depth, and have no potential closer in the system. Those true closers do not come cheap in FA so to get a guy that could become, IMO anyway, a top notch closer, and whose contract they controll for several more years could be more valuable than a guy who starts off as a 4/5 and may reach a 3. (again from what i've read).

Either way, League's inconsistancy did him in IMO. His offspeed/movement pitch just couldn't be counted on anymore, and his fastball didn't have enough on it once he got injured.

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Here's an article on the trade: http://mlb.mlb.com/news/a...p;fext=.jsp&c_id=mlb

Even if he does end up becoming a closer, I still think that would be a big improvement considering what they traded to get him.  Though, I've heard a lot of comparisons between Morrow and Dustin McGowan.  Potential to be great if they can get over the injury hump.

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Oh I agree.

It was VERY clear the at best League was just going to a set up guy. AT Best. More than likely a late situational reliever. To trade him and an avg to below avg prospect and a guy who is that now, with more potential I'm a huge fan of it. Starter or closer they just upgraded their team IMO and gave up little to do it.

I was on the Ms boards, and most of the them are very upset/confussed about the trade.

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http://www.tsn.ca/mlb/story/?id=303312

An interesting read on how the Jays farm system ranked in 2002 as the best in the league, and the top 10 at the time, not many panned out too well and the one that did was for another team (Jaysen Werth), who was traded for Frasor.

I also like the Morrow trade I did think League had good potential to be a late inning guy, but seemed to greatly regress this year. Does this move also possibly mean the end of Downs days as a Jay there has been talk of him being moved.

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Well it seems like Morrow is set to be a starter, at least for the time being. He has potential there but really needs to get more offspeed stuff to become effective but if he does they have a potential1/2 on their hands. He along with Drabek, Marcum, Litsch, Romero could give the Jays a pretty solid rotation in a couple years and keep it good for some time. At worst he goes back to the bullpen and is still an upgrade over League IMO who I don't think had any potential to close.

Thats an intering article about the Jays. Whats also funny is the main reason JP was hired was he was suppose to be this astute talent finder and build via "smallball". Instead he took over a prospect pool considered to be fantastic, only to degrade it to one of the worst by rushing/screwing with too many prospects.

And I still find it hard to call McGowan a miss. He is a stud if stays healthy and I don't think its fair to discount the Jays because Mcgowan can't stay healthy. Alot of it is bad luck.

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I'd like to see the Jays sign Carlos Delgado.  He has 473 HRs.  I figure he'd be able to reach the 500 mark if you gave him a couple years.  Lets not forget, he hit 38 HRs in 2008.  At very least, you'll probably put some fans in the seats.  I think it'd be best to put Lind out in the field, anyways.  It's not like we'd have anything to lose next season.

C- Buck

1B-Overbay

2B-Hill

3B-Encarnacion

SS-Macdonald/Gonzalez

LF-Lind

CF-Wells

RF-Snider

DH-Delgado

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I like Delgado if Wallace isn't ready to go. I'd rather see Wallace get alot of at bats rather than Carlos and see the Jays build.

But if they feel that Wallace or Snider are not ready that I would aboslutly love to see Carlos Delgado come in for some fan fare and to give them another bat.

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The Blue Jay's first spring training game was today. Toronto lost 7-6, but some guy I've never heard of before blew a 2 run lead in the 9th. 30 days till opening day! smile.gif

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Spring training has been solid for the Jays so far. I don't really look at the record much, but there have been some good positives.

Marcum is looking very good coming off injury. Thats a huge plus for the Jays who need that top 2 presence. Romero looks like he is building off of last year very well. Mcgowan is starting to throw pain free. and their pitching for the most part looks quite good. I'm not saying it means they'll be great come the season its just a good sign.

I also like that JP Arenbica (i probably spelled that wrong) is hitting the ball very well. Jays could use a catching prospect to get going.

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Not the best of openers.

Marcum looked fantastic, but unfortunately Frasor couldn't hold it. I really questioned Frasor as the closer and he really did nothing to give me any confidence in him. He's got the stuff, but I dont' believe has the mental game to be a closer. I would actualy prfer to try and trade him and get something of value, but at the very best he should be a set up man not the closer.

Hopefully Wells keeps this going, and Snider doesn't. 3Ks on the day for the young man.

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Well with whats happened in hockey I guess I can start turning my attention to baseball a little earlier this year. Overall I think this team will be better than most think, still doubt they will contend. Rotation wise even with injuries they wont have to put as many rookies in this year and I thought the rotation has been pretty good the last few years even without Doc and AJ. Bullpen I think looks decent, I'm not sold on Frasor as a closer either, but don't think there is a better option right now anyways. As far as the lineup is concerned the fact Bautista is leading off is completely mind boggling. If Hill and Lind can build off of there last year, and Wells can keep up after his opening day maybe return to the Wells of 2006, Snider needs to show he belongs and other players mainly Overbay and Encarnacion need to return to being decent hitters. I think 75-80 wins is within reach as long as they play decent against the Rays, Yanks and Sox, something that killed them last year.

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i'm thining along the same lines, in and around 70-80 wins.

I don't think they are an awful team like some. I think their lineup talent isn't bad at all if HIlls/Lind repeat their last year's season and Wells improves. If that happens their lineup, which wasn't bad last year, is better. Bullpen's good but of course the rotation is where the question marks are. Bull pen is solid, but lets see how they do with more innings which is very likely given that Halladay was such a work horse.

But the future is looking brigher for sure. I am a huge Alex Athopolus fan and think that Jays have found a read find in that guy.

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Some thoughts, and questions, for you baseball fans that are more up to speed on the Jays than I am.

I hate Lyle Overbay, the guy's such a slug. Had to get that out there.

Where are Dustin McGowan and Jesse Litsch at?

Cross if you don't think Frasor is the answer for closer, who would you go with?

Does anybody else miss Reed Johnson?

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Dustin Mcgown and Jesse Litsch are both on the DL. Litsch isn't slated to come off the DL until June/July although I woudln't be suprised to see them do with him what they did with Marcum and give him extra time. Don't want to rush a young arm.

McGowans apparantly is fairly healthy for the most part, he just has no stamina in his arm. So he's working to build that up. Unfortunately he is out of options in terms of being sent down becuase he'll be subject to waivers and would definetly get claimed. He's working his strength back up and hopefully we'll see him at some point.

I would go with kevin Gregg, the FA they signed. His stuff isn't as good as frasor's, IMO at least, but he's been there before and has a litle more experience witht he closer role. IMO, the closer role is as much mental as it is physical and i'm not sure Frasor has the mental makeup. He's ok when he's got a couple runs, but i've always seen him struggle with 1 run leads.

Not really. Definetly if you go back it was a brutal move to release him in favor of Shannon Stewart who was a bust. At the same time though Lind and Snider are better Ofs than he was anyway.

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