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rosalie52

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Cito's been great. Really makes you wonder why JP stuck with Gibbons so long.

I'm sure you've already heard this before, but Gibbons really didn't have much baseball background when he came to Toronto to manage. He played baseball with JP and I guess JP thought it would be a good idea to have him as a manager :huh:

The huge May was actually the worst thing. It bought Gibbons more time. If the had of fired Gibbons earlier they likely are in the playoff race instead of being a spoiler.

Agreed. I was calling for him to be fired one month into the season!

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I'm sure you've already heard this before, but Gibbons really didn't have much baseball background when he came to Toronto to manage. He played baseball with JP and I guess JP thought it would be a good idea to have him as a manager :huh:

Agreed. I was calling for him to be fired one month into the season!

To gibbons credit, he wasn't terrible. He was a solid manager, just not one that was gonna take them to the next step. I saw that, and was hopoing JP would see it to. I was also calling for him to be fired, and right when it made sense to fire him, they started winning. JP clearly had him on a longer lesh than most, but if they go even .500 in May I think he gets fired then.

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10 in a row...does anyone think a playoff spot is possible. They will have to keep playing amazing baseball and they will pretty much have to sweep Boston this weekend.

They are making it pretty exciting!

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10 in a row...does anyone think a playoff spot is possible. They will have to keep playing amazing baseball and they will pretty much have to sweep Boston this weekend.

They are making it pretty exciting!

with a heavy division sked they definitely have a chance

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with a heavy division sked they definitely have a chance

There is a chance, but its remote.

They need some serious help because they don't play the Rays anymore. They play Boston another 7 time, and if they were to win say 5 or 6 of those they would be right there, no less than 5 though. Because Boston has a healthy lead in the wild card thats about the only way I see them doing it unless the Rays suddenly tank and they sweep the Red Sox in their remaining games together.

All really comes down to their remaining games versus Boston and Minnisota. If Minnisota stays somewhat cold, and they can take 5 or 6 games of their remaining ones versus Boston, they have a shot given they are only 7 games back of the Sox.

Regardless of wether they make it or not, this team has shown me a ton. They are a fairly young team, and even the "veterans" on the team, the Halladays, Burnetts, Ryans, Wells etc, are not exactly accustomed to playoff races. The fact that they have come together and played this well is a huge testiment to Cito's knowledge and teachings.

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Regardless of wether they make it or not, this team has shown me a ton. They are a fairly young team, and even the "veterans" on the team, the Halladays, Burnetts, Ryans, Wells etc, are not exactly accustomed to playoff races. The fact that they have come together and played this well is a huge testiment to Cito's knowledge and teachings.

Maybe. Or maybe they are in the same place as other teams that thrive when they have nothing to play for and the pressures off. Recent examples: St.Louis Blues, Columbus Blue Jackets, Edmonton Oilers.

Ultimately, you are whatever your record says you are and for the Blue Jays thats a 3rd place in their division and a team with an outside shot at the wild card. I think that's more or less the expectations for the BJ's heading into the season.

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Maybe. Or maybe they are in the same place as other teams that thrive when they have nothing to play for and the pressures off. Recent examples: St.Louis Blues, Columbus Blue Jackets, Edmonton Oilers.

Ultimately, you are whatever your record says you are and for the Blue Jays thats a 3rd place in their division and a team with an outside shot at the wild card. I think that's more or less the expectations for the BJ's heading into the season.

Under Cito, they were still one of the best teams in the MLB even before this win streak when they were still a contender for the playoffs. They've played this well since he took over, not just recently when their playoff hopes all but disappeared.

The Blue Jays are always going to have tough sledding in that AL East. However, I believe the last couple of years were their years to capitalize and they didn't. The Yankees have been in turmoil, the Rays were bad, until now, and it was really only the Red sox who were a top team. The teams were good, but nto great. With the amount of top end starters on the market this offseason, Sabathia, Ben Sheets, Rich Harden, Ryan Dempster, possibly Burnett, you know the Yankees are gonna get one of the them. Combine that with an already dangerous lineup, a healthy Joba Chamberlin who will have the whole offseason to be ready for a starting pitching role, and a reborn Mussina/Pettite, the Yankees will likely bounce back next year. Its actually been lucky for the Jays that the FA market has been weak in recent years becuase the Yankees weren't able to send themselves back tow inning baseball. With the way the FA market looks right now, they will be able to and it'l take alot, even for Cito, to make teh playoffs next year.

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"If we were healthy all season..."

"If Andy Murray was hired sooner..."

"If Hitchcock was our coach all year..."

These are nothing more than excuses. All teams go through injuries and difficulties. Ultimately, I don't think the Jays have what it takes with their current lineup and leadership. The sooner they realize the sooner they can fix it. Making excuses just prolongs the agony.

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"If we were healthy all season..."

"If Andy Murray was hired sooner..."

"If Hitchcock was our coach all year..."

These are nothing more than excuses. All teams go through injuries and difficulties. Ultimately, I don't think the Jays have what it takes with their current lineup and leadership. The sooner they realize the sooner they can fix it. Making excuses just prolongs the agony.

I agree. My point was not to say that had Cito been hired sooner they woudl be in the playoffs. I just admire the job Cito has done with the team especially seeing how he has been out of manaing so long.

The Jays problem is urgency. They've had a window of the last 3 seaons where the Red Sox/Yankees have not been as good as they should be, but they didn't take advantage of it. Thats been their problem recently, not their payroll. And I agree part of it is leadership, from the front office down to the field.

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Personally I really like the look of this team right now and for a couple years to come...

Burnett (if he doesn't opt out), Rolen, Halladay, Wells, Rios, Overbay, Downs & Hill are already under contract for at least the next 2 years... Litsch, McGowan, Janssen, Marcum, League, Accardo, Carlsson, Inglett, Lind, Tallett, Percy and Snider are all young enough where I don;t think they can leave via free agency in the next couple years... and next year we should have Barajas, Scutaro and McDonald as well... we have very few guys leaving this summer and this is something to build off of... especially with the pitching staff since they are so young

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The pitching has been great, but two positions I'd like to see improved next year are shortstop and DH. With another couple of bats, the Jays could be more serious contenders for the playoffs. It'd be nice to get a power bat behind Wells, and a shortstop who can bat over .220

Also replacing Zaun with a catcher who can hit for a better average would be nice. I don't know if the Jays have any good catcher prospects though....

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The pitching has been great, but two positions I'd like to see improved next year are shortstop and DH. With another couple of bats, the Jays could be more serious contenders for the playoffs. It'd be nice to get a power bat behind Wells, and a shortstop who can bat over .220

Also replacing Zaun with a catcher who can hit for a better average would be nice. I don't know if the Jays have any good catcher prospects though....

next year Hill will be healthy and then you have Inglett & Scutaro to play shortstop and MacDonald can be used sparingly as a defensive replacement... for DH I would love if the jays brought back Delgado if the Mets don't pick up his option... for catchers I think Curtis Thigpen might get the chance as the everyday backup behind Barajas next year

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I agree. My point was not to say that had Cito been hired sooner they woudl be in the playoffs. I just admire the job Cito has done with the team especially seeing how he has been out of manaing so long.

The Jays problem is urgency. They've had a window of the last 3 seaons where the Red Sox/Yankees have not been as good as they should be, but they didn't take advantage of it. Thats been their problem recently, not their payroll. And I agree part of it is leadership, from the front office down to the field.

I am pretty sure that those not so good redsox won the world series last year....

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I am pretty sure that those not so good redsox won the world series last year....

Read a previous post where I said that the Red Sox had a weak year two seasons ago where they were beatable and that the Yankees have been weak for the last 3 years. I didn't say the Red sox havn't been good for 3 years, just that they've had streches in there where they have been beatable, and had a down year and the Jays have been unable to take advantage.

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next year Hill will be healthy and then you have Inglett & Scutaro to play shortstop and MacDonald can be used sparingly as a defensive replacement... for DH I would love if the jays brought back Delgado if the Mets don't pick up his option... for catchers I think Curtis Thigpen might get the chance as the everyday backup behind Barajas next year

I stil think they need a true everyday SS. I like Inglett, Scutaro, and McDonald, I just don't like a rotation at short. The market has some really good names, Edgar Rentaria and Orlando Carrbrea on the market this year so It may be the time to try and get that everday shortshop they need. However, there is talk that they may move Hill back over to SS, what he was drafted at and originally planned to play, and keep Scutaro/Inglett and 2nd. I would still like a better bat than Scutaro/Inglett, but it may have to do.

DH, I really don't think Delgado has an interest in coming back. JP never really seemed to like Carlos all that much, and Delgado was not happy with the way the Jays tried to renegotiate his contract. Jp wasn't even part of the negotiations, stating that Godfrey was better suited for it, and lowballed him anyway.

I would prefer to see Texiera come in. I dont' think he'll cost as much as Delgado and he is a guy that can still be a very solid 1st baseman should they need it.

The Jays are pretty deep at Catcher actualy. They have thigpen ,who is likely ready, and also have a prospect that been flying up the minor leagues. Don't have the name on me, but hes rapidly progressing. Believe he was one of their first round picks from last years draft.

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I stil think they need a true everyday SS. I like Inglett, Scutaro, and McDonald, I just don't like a rotation at short. The market has some really good names, Edgar Rentaria and Orlando Carrbrea on the market this year so It may be the time to try and get that everday shortshop they need. However, there is talk that they may move Hill back over to SS, what he was drafted at and originally planned to play, and keep Scutaro/Inglett and 2nd. I would still like a better bat than Scutaro/Inglett, but it may have to do.

DH, I really don't think Delgado has an interest in coming back. JP never really seemed to like Carlos all that much, and Delgado was not happy with the way the Jays tried to renegotiate his contract. Jp wasn't even part of the negotiations, stating that Godfrey was better suited for it, and lowballed him anyway.

I would prefer to see Texiera come in. I dont' think he'll cost as much as Delgado and he is a guy that can still be a very solid 1st baseman should they need it.

The Jays are pretty deep at Catcher actualy. They have thigpen ,who is likely ready, and also have a prospect that been flying up the minor leagues. Don't have the name on me, but hes rapidly progressing. Believe he was one of their first round picks from last years draft.

I suggested Carlos for a few reasons... 1) he is and always be my favorite player... 2) we need power and he has it in spades... 3) he is a relatively healthy players and even in off years outs up 30+ home runs

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I suggested Carlos for a few reasons... 1) he is and always be my favorite player... 2) we need power and he has it in spades... 3) he is a relatively healthy players and even in off years outs up 30+ home runs

I definetly have no problem with Carlos. He was my favorite player when he was here. I would love to have him back, I jsut have a feeling he doens't want to be back and i'm not sure the Jays can afford him.

Texiera could, although maybe not, come a little cheaper. He doens't have the same power as Carlos as his hitting isn't as all around.

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I definetly have no problem with Carlos. He was my favorite player when he was here. I would love to have him back, I jsut have a feeling he doens't want to be back and i'm not sure the Jays can afford him.

Texiera could, although maybe not, come a little cheaper. He doens't have the same power as Carlos as his hitting isn't as all around.

I know what you mean but I also think Carlos is the kind of guy that won't hold a grudge... I think if he was given a fair offer its possible... that would be awesome though

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I know what you mean but I also think Carlos is the kind of guy that won't hold a grudge... I think if he was given a fair offer its possible... that would be awesome though

Yeah, that was total speculation on my part. I just remember him not being happy about the way he left Toronto and never really getting along with JP all that well. Just an assumption.

I wouldn't be suprised if the Jays made an offer, I just expect the Mets to pick up his option because I don't see them wining the Series this year and Mets fans are getting anxious. Would love to see him back though.

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Yeah, that was total speculation on my part. I just remember him not being happy about the way he left Toronto and never really getting along with JP all that well. Just an assumption.

I wouldn't be suprised if the Jays made an offer, I just expect the Mets to pick up his option because I don't see them wining the Series this year and Mets fans are getting anxious. Would love to see him back though.

yeah I think they will pick it up too... here is another thought... its a little out there but the guy still has some power and that veteran leadership.... not to mention is a media darling... Griffey (you know assuming the Sox don't pick up his option)... at this point in his career he will be much cheaper... and maybe if the Jays finish really strong he could see them as a playoff team

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yeah I think they will pick it up too... here is another thought... its a little out there but the guy still has some power and that veteran leadership.... not to mention is a media darling... Griffey (you know assuming the Sox don't pick up his option)... at this point in his career he will be much cheaper... and maybe if the Jays finish really strong he could see them as a playoff team

Yeah he's still got some pop, although his health gives me a bit of a worry. Griffey could be interesting. He still carries the name that may still drive his salary higher, but his production shouldn't match that. Griffey is a guy that if you can get cheaper would be exactly what the Jays need. To get a Texiera or Delgado I think they would need AJ To opt out, and also to trade Overbay (not a big loss). Maybe a Griffery or even a Thome could come cheaper and allow the Jays to keep Overbay.

Lots of options for the Jays the offseason. I don't think they can just standpat though, even if AJ stays. They need another bat. Snider has shown some flashes, but not enough for full time DH duty. Its a good FA market too so there are plenty of options for them to play with.

Delgado (option)

Nomar Garciapara (can still swing a decent bat)

Texiera

Jim Thome

Griffey

Abreu

Garret Anderson

Adam Dunn (although highly unlikely given he hates JP)

even Manny is a possibility.

Thos are just some quick names that come to mind off the list. There are some other lesser bats available as well.

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I think Overbay is really underrated... his salary is far from expensive... he hits for power (albeit not HR power)... and he is more than reliable defensively... this is the most all around stability the Jays have had at 1st base since Olerud

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I think Overbay is really underrated... his salary is far from expensive... he hits for power (albeit not HR power)... and he is more than reliable defensively... this is the most all around stability the Jays have had at 1st base since Olerud

HIs solid, but he is also solid on a team full of solid players. I'm not saying he is expendable, but I would move him in a second if it meant getting a true power bat. He is also widely inconsistant at the plate.

Wouldn't be upset if he stayed, but would easily move him for an upgrade.

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HIs solid, but he is also solid on a team full of solid players. I'm not saying he is expendable, but I would move him in a second if it meant getting a true power bat. He is also widely inconsistant at the plate.

Wouldn't be upset if he stayed, but would easily move him for an upgrade.

I would rather sign the power bat to be DH without upsetting our defense... unless we can get Puljos :D

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I would rather sign the power bat to be DH without upsetting our defense... unless we can get Puljos :D

Agreed, but then it just becomes a question of rotating everyone in. From all accounts, it looks like Snider is making a very serious case for being a Jay next season. Lind has already proved he belongs. Because I like Snider's bat better than Overbay's I'd like to leave the DH spot open for a guy like Snider, Lind, and perhaps more time for Scutaro/Ignlett should they need more speed on the base paths.

I think Overbay's defence is again solid, but not good enough that they would lost much be trading him. I also think he could be used, along with maybe a couple of prospects, to get another arm to perhaps get some depth if Burnett should leave. Perhaps a package including Overbay, Jansen/Bull pen arms/ and a prospect or two for a 4/5 starter.

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