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Vick's Indictment

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That is plain ignorant.

Yah maybe the comment was uncalled for - but the fact remains that sharpton and jackson are complete opportunists. I am in no way racist, but these two men are. They take advantage of any media coverage involving african americans and spin it to get face time. They pretend to represent all black people when really they just want to get media coverage. Does anyone not remember the Duke lacrosse scandal? They publically bashed 3 innocent lacross players without any substantial evidence. Oh yah and Jackson gives the stripper a scholarship. It turns out she made everything up and these players did nothing wrong - and sharpton and jackson have not apologized.

My initial post was written in anger, but I think it still has a point. Any time an african american is in the media for something, sharpton and jackson jump on the wagon to get their faces shown - and innevitably, do way more harm than good.

Anyway, this case is cut and dry... there are Vick supporters (who believe he's innocent), but there is nobody out there who will advoate for cruelty to animals. Of course Sharpton is going to publically come out against Vick - who wouldn't. Just another chance to get his name in the news.

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^They aren't opportunists, they just say how they feel. Malcolm X and MLK did the same and things haven't changed at all. Bringing up race is why I called your post ignorant and defending it just proves ignorance. Sure bring up the Duke lacrosse thing. Heres a thing put you in a room with Eric Harris, Dylan Klebold, Scott Peterson and Oj Simpson. The fact is most would be terrified of Simpson and not know who the rest were, in reality I would be least afraid of Simpson.

I stand up for Vick for the fact that he is still innocent, many people forget that. And to bring up the race thing how is a guy approaching the all-time homerun record deemed a villain. While a pitcher who has retired and came back 3 times comes out as the All-American Hero. Yes prejudice still exists, dont pretend it doesnt.

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^They aren't opportunists, they just say how they feel. Malcolm X and MLK did the same and things haven't changed at all.

We feel differently about Sharpton and Jackson, that's fine. However, they have taken on a role as spokespeople for Black America. When you claim to speak out for a group of people, you have a responsibility for your words and actions. Me coming on this message board and saying how I feel is one thing - going on television and representing a large group of people is another. Sure Malcolm X and King voiced their opinion - but I would think they would both argue your statement that "things haven't changed at all".

Bringing up race is why I called your post ignorant and defending it just proves ignorance.

Yes prejudice still exists, dont pretend it doesnt.

Yah I brought up the race thing - because sadly, racisim still exists. Racism against black people, racism against white people. I always hate it when people bring in the race card, and that is exactly what Sharpton and Jackson perpetually do. I admire what they have done/continue to do for civil rights - do not get me wrong. I just think that sometimes they use racism to fight racism.

Who's pretending it doesn't? You call me ignorant for bringing up race, but then you go on to say that it does exist, and not to pretend it doesn't? I don't get your logic.

Sure bring up the Duke lacrosse thing. Heres a thing put you in a room with Eric Harris, Dylan Klebold, Scott Peterson and Oj Simpson. The fact is most would be terrified of Simpson and not know who the rest were, in reality I would be least afraid of Simpson.

Yah, I brought up the Duke Lacrosse thing. It's a perfect example of what I was talking about earlier. I won't get into it any further, we all know what happened.

As for your scenario of putting 3 killers and 1 innocent man in a room, I fail to see how that fits in anywhere. First, who doesn't know who those people are? They were all widely covered and very recent stories in the media. Second, why would anyone be MOST terrified of Simpson? I would be most terrified Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold - who brutally murdered many of their classmates for no real reason. Or how about Scott Peterson who murdered his wife and unborn child. Simpson would be the least of my worries. Finally, what was the point you were trying to make here? I really don't see how it relates to the Duke Lacross scanadal, Michael Vick or Sharpton/Jackson.

I stand up for Vick for the fact that he is still innocent, many people forget that. And to bring up the race thing how is a guy approaching the all-time homerun record deemed a villain. While a pitcher who has retired and came back 3 times comes out as the All-American Hero. Yes prejudice still exists, dont pretend it doesnt.

I haven't judged Vick yet either - but given his past, and the facts in this case, I would say it doesn't look good. First off, the Barry Bonds thing, in my opinion, has absolutely nothing to do with race. He's deemed a villain because he's a complete a-hole of a person, and is on the verge of breaking of the most famous records in baseball mainly due to using performance enhancing drugs. Barry Bonds was/is a fantastic athlete. I'm not going to take that away from him. All I'm saying is that without the help of steroids, I do not think he would be able to reach this record.

And what does Roger Clemens have to do with anything? He's white and plays the same sport? I don't get it. If you're going to try and argue that Clemens has used steroids, that's another arguement all together and I won't get into it here. If you want to compare apples to apples, maybe take a look at Mark McGuire or Conseco. They're white, used steroids - and are not "All-American Hero's".

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i forget where i heard it but there was a sports commentator who was saying that his NFL career is done and his only chances of playing fooball anymore are in the CFL...apparntly us canadaians like the rejected criminals of the NFL

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i forget where i heard it but there was a sports commentator who was saying that his NFL career is done and his only chances of playing fooball anymore are in the CFL...apparntly us canadaians like the rejected criminals of the NFL

There was also a unnamed GM who said there was no way in hell, you can book it, quote me on it etc, that Michael vick will be back in the NFL after his criminal issues are over. He even said there would be 10 to 15 teams lined up for his services.

He'll be back in the NFL, no doubt about. Jamal Lewis, Ray Lewis, Chris Henry etc. All still or back in teh NFL. there are people that care more about his skill than his off the field stature.

(note: not saying that I am one of them I'm just saying it as an objective fact)

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He could very well be (and should) banned from the NFL for life for violating their code of conduct by betting on anything. As if that were the least of his worries...

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I just dont understand why this is such a huge deal. Now before you all jump all over me and throw me in a cell with Vick, I agree that dog fighting is wrong. But with all of the crimes committed on a regular basis by other members of the league, and everyone wants to lock Vick up and throw away the key for something that seems minor in comparison. It seems like there is less of an uproar when someone beats his girlfriend or rapes some girl and I dont understand how that is.

Vick should and will find a place in the NFL again. There will definitely be someone who takes a chance on him because of all the talent he has. And personally, and I might get ripped apart for this, I would rather hear of a guy dog fighting than a lot of the other crimes NFLers commit.

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I said it before and I'll say it again......

Maybe the authorities should put Vick and all of the others who were involved into the fighting pits one at a time to face a pack of rabid hounds.

After that, THEN throw them in jail.

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who would you rather have on your team (assuming you need both qb and cb) - michael vick or pacman jones? i choose vick.

I'd say ban all the criminals from the NFL, but then the league wouldn't exist.... :lol:

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So you believe in cruel and unusual punishment?

haha. I guess you could say that. I'm all for judges coming up with creative punishments. If it just so happens that the punishment is cruel.....well, so be it.

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I just dont understand why this is such a huge deal. Now before you all jump all over me and throw me in a cell with Vick, I agree that dog fighting is wrong. But with all of the crimes committed on a regular basis by other members of the league, and everyone wants to lock Vick up and throw away the key for something that seems minor in comparison. It seems like there is less of an uproar when someone beats his girlfriend or rapes some girl and I dont understand how that is.

Vick should and will find a place in the NFL again. There will definitely be someone who takes a chance on him because of all the talent he has. And personally, and I might get ripped apart for this, I would rather hear of a guy dog fighting than a lot of the other crimes NFLers commit.

I don't want to seem uncompassionate (is that a word?), but I agree with this. What Vick did is messed up, but it seems like people are making it seem like an OJ Simpson sort of affair, and the bottom line is that professional athletes beat the crap out of their wives, sell and do drugs, shoot people... all sorts of crazy stuff. Hit people on the head with bowling balls for instance (Allen Iverson).

Maybe he should go to jail and be kicked out of the NFL. I don't know. But to me it's just one crazy thing amongst a plethora of crazy stuff.

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haha. I guess you could say that. I'm all for judges coming up with creative punishments. If it just so happens that the punishment is cruel.....well, so be it.

The fact of the matter is that our judicial systesm is far from perfect. Sure there are a lot of people who deserve to be in prison for the rest of their lives (or killed), but sometimes people are falsely convicted. Sometimes people are framed, have stupid lawyers, are mentally ill, have witnesses lie under oath etc... If there is 100% certainty in a crime (see the Cheshire CT Deadly Home Invasion that happened a few weeks ago 2 minutes down the road from me) - but a lot of cases are not like that. Sure the Bible teaches an eye for an eye, but when you make comments like above, you are proving to be no better a person than Vick.

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I don't want to seem uncompassionate (is that a word?), but I agree with this. What Vick did is messed up, but it seems like people are making it seem like an OJ Simpson sort of affair, and the bottom line is that professional athletes beat the crap out of their wives, sell and do drugs, shoot people... all sorts of crazy stuff. Hit people on the head with bowling balls for instance (Allen Iverson).

Maybe he should go to jail and be kicked out of the NFL. I don't know. But to me it's just one crazy thing amongst a plethora of crazy stuff.

Thats what happens when they have a lot of money and dont really care what happens. They think they are above the law because they provide entertainment to the nation. <_<

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The fact of the matter is that our judicial systesm is far from perfect. Sure there are a lot of people who deserve to be in prison for the rest of their lives (or killed), but sometimes people are falsely convicted. Sometimes people are framed, have stupid lawyers, are mentally ill, have witnesses lie under oath etc... If there is 100% certainty in a crime (see the Cheshire CT Deadly Home Invasion that happened a few weeks ago 2 minutes down the road from me) - but a lot of cases are not like that. Sure the Bible teaches an eye for an eye, but when you make comments like above, you are proving to be no better a person than Vick.

Regardless of what a lot of people believe, the Bible doesnt teach an eye for an eye. It actually teaches forgiveness and compassion. So with that in mind your whole point makes even more sense, at least from my point of view.

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Regardless of what a lot of people believe, the Bible doesnt teach an eye for an eye. It actually teaches forgiveness and compassion. So with that in mind your whole point makes even more sense, at least from my point of view.

I'm actually not very religious, so please excuse my ignorance on the subject (not being sarcastic).

exodus 21:23-21:2523

If any harm follows, then you shall give life for life, eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot, burn for burn, wound for wound, stripe for stripe.

I understand that compassion / respect / forgiveness are all messages the Bible conveys, but how is this passage interpreted with respect to those messages?

(Sorry but I think this is an interrelated topic)

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The fact of the matter is that our judicial systesm is far from perfect. Sure there are a lot of people who deserve to be in prison for the rest of their lives (or killed), but sometimes people are falsely convicted. Sometimes people are framed, have stupid lawyers, are mentally ill, have witnesses lie under oath etc... If there is 100% certainty in a crime (see the Cheshire CT Deadly Home Invasion that happened a few weeks ago 2 minutes down the road from me) - but a lot of cases are not like that. Sure the Bible teaches an eye for an eye, but when you make comments like above, you are proving to be no better a person than Vick.

Little difference though......I'm not running/funding/associated with an illegal dog fighting arena. The worst thing I can be considered guilty of is speeding, jay-walking and maybe a criminally offensive wardrobe (as in unstylish).

I won't say I'm perfect, but to me, if there is 100% certainty, then the guilty parties should be punished to the fullest extent of the law. If the punishments were equal to the crime and enforced fully, then maybe, just maybe we would find it wouldn't happen as often. Or maybe I'm hopelessly naive.

I'm all for the eye-for-an-eye punishment. In life and in the NHL for that matter where I'm an advocate for harsher suspensions depending on how long the injured party is out for.

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I'm actually not very religious, so please excuse my ignorance on the subject (not being sarcastic).

exodus 21:23-21:2523

I understand that compassion / respect / forgiveness are all messages the Bible conveys, but how is this passage interpreted with respect to those messages?

(Sorry but I think this is an interrelated topic)

It is an Old Testament verse and that was the commandment to the Jews under the Mosaic law but things changed with the life and death of Jesus. After that, acceptance of Jesus was the only way to forgive sins and so this changed. There is a verse in the New Testament that deals directly with the verse you found, I'll find it for you but I don't have my Bible with me right now.

(Sorry mods, if this conversation gets too long we will start a new thread/PM each other)

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i forget where i heard it but there was a sports commentator who was saying that his NFL career is done and his only chances of playing fooball anymore are in the CFL...apparntly us canadaians like the rejected criminals of the NFL

it'll be highly ironic when he leads the Hamilton tiger Cats to the Grey Cup... :ph34r:

maybe he can re launch the Balmy Beach Bulldogs in Ottawa!

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I'm actually not very religious, so please excuse my ignorance on the subject (not being sarcastic).

exodus 21:23-21:2523

I understand that compassion / respect / forgiveness are all messages the Bible conveys, but how is this passage interpreted with respect to those messages?

(Sorry but I think this is an interrelated topic)

It is an Old Testament verse and that was the commandment to the Jews under the Mosaic law but things changed with the life and death of Jesus. After that, acceptance of Jesus was the only way to forgive sins and so this changed. There is a verse in the New Testament that deals directly with the verse you found, I'll find it for you but I don't have my Bible with me right now.

(Sorry mods, if this conversation gets too long we will start a new thread/PM each other)

To finish this thought, the particular verse I was referring to is Matthew 5: 38-42: "38You have heard that it was said, 'Eye for eye, and tooth for tooth.' 39But I tell you, Do not resist an evil person. If someone strikes you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also. 40And if someone wants to sue you and take your tunic, let him have your cloak as well. 41If someone forces you to go one mile, go with him two miles. 42Give to the one who asks you, and do not turn away from the one who wants to borrow from you."

This isnt the only passage of this nature but this is Jesus specifically talking to those who are still trying to live by the old law like the verse you found in Exodus.

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