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Realistic Trade suggestions for improvement

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14 hours ago, cross16 said:

 

Like the player hate the trade. Flames would be better off seeing how Bennett reacts under Peters. 

 

Suggest the right trade.  I was just trying to find a similar value to Anderson.  Bennett was the closest to par I could come up with.

Probably a more even trade than Bennett for Nylander or Bennett for Kapanen. 

Peters is probably the exact guy to get Bennett going, but I have concerns that he may not get going.

I would be on board with playing Bennett out until TDL and decide then.   

 

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6 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

Suggest the right trade.  I was just trying to find a similar value to Anderson.  Bennett was the closest to par I could come up with.

Probably a more even trade than Bennett for Nylander or Bennett for Kapanen. 

 

 

 

Yup I wouldn't make ether of those trades either. In all cases you are better to hang on to Bennett.

 

Josh Anderson is IMO not a realistic get without an overpay. Columbus likes him, paid him and protected him in the expansion draft over Karlsson and what a mistake that is looking to be. You will probably need to overpay to get Anderson, and maybe that's Bennett, which then in turn does not make sense to me. 

 

For me it only makes sense to trade Bennett if you are getting a top 6 RS RW that can be here for a while. That won't be straight up, it would maybe be part of a package but if you don't get that then keep Bennett and see what he can do. 

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I know Bennett does not put up the numbers we would like and sometimes he takes dumb penalties but he plays hard on the boards does not shy away from the tuff style of play I think if Peters is going to start playing with the lines and see what he can do with these kids I think perhaps Bennett will benefit from him. I would really like to see Bennett with MrT and perhaps Janks or mang maybe even Lazar we have the players we need to figure out how to utilize them and get the best out of them. It doesn't seem like we have much success in trades or free agents I would love to see upgrades but  at what cost and will we be happy with whom ever we get? 

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12 minutes ago, zima said:

I know Bennett does not put up the numbers we would like and sometimes he takes dumb penalties but he plays hard on the boards does not shy away from the tuff style of play I think if Peters is going to start playing with the lines and see what he can do with these kids I think perhaps Bennett will benefit from him. I would really like to see Bennett with MrT and perhaps Janks or mang maybe even Lazar we have the players we need to figure out how to utilize them and get the best out of them. It doesn't seem like we have much success in trades or free agents I would love to see upgrades but  at what cost and will we be happy with whom ever we get? 

Yes, exactly.  With one of Peter's strengths bringing up youth it seems premature to make a bunch of trades now until he has a chance to work with them.  Based on what I've read and heard so far about BP, Here's the guys that I think would stand out the most based on high, consistent effort ( in no particular order):

1. Hathaway

2. Giordano

3. Bennett

4. Lazar

5. Brodie

6. Gaudreau

7. Foo (very limited viewings)

8. Frolik

9. Smith

 

...and those just the opposite:

1. Brouwer

2. Hamilton

3. Monahan

4. Backlund

5. Ferland

 

Thoughts?

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21 minutes ago, cccsberg said:

Yes, exactly.  With one of Peter's strengths bringing up youth it seems premature to make a bunch of trades now until he has a chance to work with them.  Based on what I've read and heard so far about BP, Here's the guys that I think would stand out the most based on high, consistent effort ( in no particular order):

1. Hathaway

2. Giordano

3. Bennett

4. Lazar

5. Brodie

6. Gaudreau

7. Foo (very limited viewings)

8. Frolik

9. Smith

 

...and those just the opposite:

1. Brouwer

2. Hamilton

3. Monahan

4. Backlund

5. Ferland

 

Thoughts?

 

I think Backlund and Frolik will be his go to pair in a lot of situations, I don't think he will have any issues with Backlund. If Bennett and Hathaway can get away from taking so many dumb minor penalties then yeah they should be fine with Peters if not it could be a long season for them. I think Brodie might struggle a bit with Peters as Brodie struggles with situational awareness, so if Brodie keeps throwing pizzas right up the middle especially in close games, it could be a long season again for Brodie.

 

Peters has never had a number 1 center like Monahan and he hasn't had a game breaker like Gaudreau so it will be really interesting how he deploys them and how much freedom he gives them.

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26 minutes ago, cccsberg said:

Yes, exactly.  With one of Peter's strengths bringing up youth it seems premature to make a bunch of trades now until he has a chance to work with them.  Based on what I've read and heard so far about BP, Here's the guys that I think would stand out the most based on high, consistent effort ( in no particular order):

1. Hathaway

2. Giordano

3. Bennett

4. Lazar

5. Brodie

6. Gaudreau

7. Foo (very limited viewings)

8. Frolik

9. Smith

 

...and those just the opposite:

1. Brouwer

2. Hamilton

3. Monahan

4. Backlund

5. Ferland

 

Thoughts?

This post doesn't make sense enough to give thoughts. How do we know what effect Peters will have on any of these players ? Some are what they are while some could go either way, improve or regress.

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17 hours ago, cross16 said:

 

Like the player hate the trade. Flames would be better off seeing how Bennett reacts under Peters. 

I had Josh Andersson in my Flames Fantasy Pool so I followed him closely. Here was a kid that every game had multiple shots and hits and always seemed to be in the dirty areas fighting for the puck. Do we need someone like that? YES but he has fought through adversity with Torts to get him to where he is today. The Flames just could not afford him as Bennett would most likely not do it. Columbus is also shy on RWers as they had to pick up a broken Letestu. Would like to see him a Flame but the price would be too high.

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30 minutes ago, cccsberg said:

...and those just the opposite:

1. Brouwer

2. Hamilton

3. Monahan

4. Backlund

5. Ferland

 

Thoughts?

 

These guys don't give consistent effort?  Especially Brouwer, the effort is 110% consistently... And before anyone thinks I'm being sarcastic, no. I'm serious. The effort really is there.  It's just, when you suck, then you suck.  Production is zero but the effort, man, Brouwer is the definition of effort.  

 

That's actually my biggest beef with Brouwer.  The guy tries so hard that he becomes a coach's pet.  And so he gets ice time.  And coaches don't have the balls to bench a guy who puts in effort because it sets a bad example.

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19 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

These guys don't give consistent effort?  Especially Brouwer, the effort is 110% consistently... And before anyone thinks I'm being sarcastic, no. I'm serious. The effort really is there.  It's just, when you suck, then you suck.  Production is zero but the effort, man, Brouwer is the definition of effort.  

 

That's actually my biggest beef with Brouwer.  The guy tries so hard that he becomes a coach's pet.  And so he gets ice time.  And coaches don't have the balls to bench a guy who puts in effort because it sets a bad example.

My point was about consistent effort, so yes I was saying these seemed sporadic to me.  I would include Brouwer in that but I do agree that the last third of the season he really upped his game/effort and started to get at least a few meagre points.  I am thinking guys with a very high effort level, like we perceive a Dube to be, or like Lazar and Hathaway are most nights, are what Peters will be looking for.   I do get your point about effort alone leading to coach's pet status.  Hopefully the coach is looking for a combination of effort & results.  

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The only players right now that jump out for me as having a hard time adjusting to Peters are Hamilton, Hathaway and Bennett. All 3 strictly based off the fact that they take too many bad penalties and Peters has been adamant he doesn't stand for that. I don't have a problem with the effort level of anyone on this team individually so I don't see that as a factor, will just come down to their ability to cut down the minor penalties. 

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PIMS are kind of interesting.  I thought I'd take a peak and see how certain players have accumulated penalties on the flames.  As mentioned, Hathaway takes way too many, leading all flames this past year.  Hamonic is second, with Backlund a close third.  Backlund accumulated 78 PIMS this season, matching his total from the three previous seasons combined.  Very strange for him.

 

Hamilton put up 64 PIMS, exactly the same as last year.  Interestingly, the most minutes he put up before being coached by Gully was 46.  Sam Bennett, despite taking bad penalties, took fewer this season (59 vs 75), but under Hartley he only had 37 minutes.  I guess what I'm trying to say is that, in the case of Bennett, Backlund, and Hamilton, there is at least some history to suggest they are capable of playing more responsibly.  Of course, stats from last year (and maybe a bit this year) are skewed by the wideman effect.

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1 hour ago, cross16 said:

The only players right now that jump out for me as having a hard time adjusting to Peters are Hamilton, Hathaway and Bennett. All 3 strictly based off the fact that they take too many bad penalties and Peters has been adamant he doesn't stand for that. I don't have a problem with the effort level of anyone on this team individually so I don't see that as a factor, will just come down to their ability to cut down the minor penalties. 

You are right about the penalties, especially Hamilton and Bennett.

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5 minutes ago, ABC923 said:

PIMS are kind of interesting.  I thought I'd take a peak and see how certain players have accumulated penalties on the flames.  As mentioned, Hathaway takes way too many, leading all flames this past year.  Hamonic is second, with Backlund a close third.  Backlund accumulated 78 PIMS this season, matching his total from the three previous seasons combined.  Very strange for him.

 

Hamilton put up 64 PIMS, exactly the same as last year.  Interestingly, the most minutes he put up before being coached by Gully was 46.  Sam Bennett, despite taking bad penalties, took fewer this season (59 vs 75), but under Hartley he only had 37 minutes.  I guess what I'm trying to say is that, in the case of Bennett, Backlund, and Hamilton, there is at least some history to suggest they are capable of playing more responsibly.  Of course, stats from last year (and maybe a bit this year) are skewed by the wideman effect.

I don’t recall Hathaway as taking stupid penalties.  I bet a large portion of his are fights.

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8 minutes ago, ABC923 said:

PIMS are kind of interesting.  I thought I'd take a peak and see how certain players have accumulated penalties on the flames.  As mentioned, Hathaway takes way too many, leading all flames this past year.  Hamonic is second, with Backlund a close third.  Backlund accumulated 78 PIMS this season, matching his total from the three previous seasons combined.  Very strange for him.

 

Hamilton put up 64 PIMS, exactly the same as last year.  Interestingly, the most minutes he put up before being coached by Gully was 46.  Sam Bennett, despite taking bad penalties, took fewer this season (59 vs 75), but under Hartley he only had 37 minutes.  I guess what I'm trying to say is that, in the case of Bennett, Backlund, and Hamilton, there is at least some history to suggest they are capable of playing more responsibly.  Of course, stats from last year (and maybe a bit this year) are skewed by the wideman effect.

Tkachuk is a bad influence on Backlund. LOL

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5 minutes ago, cccsberg said:

I don’t recall Hathaway as taking stupid penalties.  I bet a large portion of his are fights.

 

Hathaway lead the team in minor penalties per 60mins at 1.68, Bennett was next at 1.37, then Stajan at 1.13, then Hamilton at 1.09 and Backlund at 1.08.

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2 hours ago, redfire11 said:

I had Josh Andersson in my Flames Fantasy Pool so I followed him closely. Here was a kid that every game had multiple shots and hits and always seemed to be in the dirty areas fighting for the puck. Do we need someone like that? YES but he has fought through adversity with Torts to get him to where he is today. The Flames just could not afford him as Bennett would most likely not do it. Columbus is also shy on RWers as they had to pick up a broken Letestu. Would like to see him a Flame but the price would be too high.

 

My understanding at the time (October 2017) was he was in a difficult negotiation.

Simply looking at numbers, he's not that impressive.  Right up there with Janko and Bennett.

He may hold a high value or the value of a 3rd line player.  Bjorkstrand has already surpassed him on the depth chart and points in year one.

 

It probably would never happen.  Just trying to guess what the ask would be. 

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7 hours ago, ABC923 said:

PIMS are kind of interesting.  I thought I'd take a peak and see how certain players have accumulated penalties on the flames.  As mentioned, Hathaway takes way too many, leading all flames this past year.  Hamonic is second, with Backlund a close third.  Backlund accumulated 78 PIMS this season, matching his total from the three previous seasons combined.  Very strange for him.

 

Hamilton put up 64 PIMS, exactly the same as last year.  Interestingly, the most minutes he put up before being coached by Gully was 46.  Sam Bennett, despite taking bad penalties, took fewer this season (59 vs 75), but under Hartley he only had 37 minutes.  I guess what I'm trying to say is that, in the case of Bennett, Backlund, and Hamilton, there is at least some history to suggest they are capable of playing more responsibly.  Of course, stats from last year (and maybe a bit this year) are skewed by the wideman effect.

 

Hathaway draws a lot of penalties too though. He probably takes more, but he also causes PPs and how many are even up calls and fights? I don’t know, but Bennett and Backlund are probably more worrisome because they don’t draw them as much.

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What's it take to get Simmonds? 24 goals when he was playing hurt from day one of camp is amazing.

 

Doubt PHI can afford to pay him the 6+ he will get next summer as a UFA. Giroux and Voracek make 8+, Provorov will be paid handsomely, as well Konecny and most likely Patrick.

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Philly has a fair bit of cap flexibility. Most of their bad deals are up soon, good young players coming at multiple positions. I think they can easily afford Simmonds if they want to pay him. 

 

Probably a cost prohibitive move for the Flames. I don't see this club at a point where it makes sense to pay a big trade acquisition cost to pick up a 30 year old player who will need a long term deal that will most likely become an anchor 3/4 years in. 

 

I love simmonds just just not the right target imo. 

 

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Just listening to FAN960 discussing trade match-ups with TML after last night's embarrassing blow-up against the Bruins.  Fans are funny things, crazy... TML have a desperate need for D and excess RW, just like Calgary has a desperate need for RW talent and excess D.  Seems like a great hockey trade partner.  Hopefully some cool heads will prevail and get something done before the summer.  If BT does make a deal, hopefully only for a top notch guy, which to me is Marner as the prime target, possibly Nylander or Kapanen as alternates.  I would be open to trade any D, but if its Hamilton we'll need to be getting Marner plus significant additional assets, which they will probably find tough to swallow.  

 

Oh, wait, I can hear them now.... all the naysayers that swear Marner will never get traded unless its Hamilton, plus, plus plus....   HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHA, Toronto, enjoy the feeling you've got this morning... get used to it till you get some D.  There are options, I suppose.  Let's see where it goes.  You normally never get something for nothing...

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5 minutes ago, cccsberg said:

Just listening to FAN960 discussing trade match-ups with TML after last night's embarrassing blow-up against the Bruins.  Fans are funny things, crazy... TML have a desperate need for D and excess RW, just like Calgary has a desperate need for RW talent and excess D.  Seems like a great hockey trade partner.  Hopefully some cool heads will prevail and get something done before the summer.  If BT does make a deal, hopefully only for a top notch guy, which to me is Marner as the prime target, possibly Nylander or Kapanen as alternates.  I would be open to trade any D, but if its Hamilton we'll need to be getting Marner plus significant additional assets, which they will probably find tough to swallow.  

 

Oh, wait, I can hear them now.... all the naysayers that swear Marner will never get traded unless its Hamilton, plus, plus plus....   HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHA, Toronto, enjoy the feeling you've got this morning... get used to it till you get some D.  There are options, I suppose.  Let's see where it goes.  You normally never get something for nothing...

 

I think a trade with the Leafs makes sense, though I think I would rather target Nylander as I see him as more of a finisher, where as Marner is more of a playmaker. I also think after the series Marner had his value went up significantly, so Nylander is probably would be a bit cheaper. 

 

I think the Leafs got 1 goal from there defense that whole series so I could see them coming after Hamilton hard. 

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15 minutes ago, JTech780 said:

 

I think a trade with the Leafs makes sense, though I think I would rather target Nylander as I see him as more of a finisher, where as Marner is more of a playmaker. I also think after the series Marner had his value went up significantly, so Nylander is probably would be a bit cheaper. 

 

I think the Leafs got 1 goal from there defense that whole series so I could see them coming after Hamilton hard. 

Your points are valid, but I like Marner because I think he's more competitive and able to fight through coverage more so than Nylander.  Either would be good additions, but I believe overall Marner would be better for the Flames.

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Marner would be the dream get for me but he'll be off limits. He was the Leafs best player in the playoffs and I think poised to break out as a top line threat. I don't see a scenario where they trade Marner even if the Flames were willing to talk Hamilton. 

 

I also don't think it's a case of the Flames deciding between playmaker vs sniper either. Yes the Flames struggled to score goals, but they also struggled to get the puck into real high quality scoring areas and I thikn are one of the lowest rank teams in terms of passes into the slot area. I think a player like Marner would help their offence by allowing guys that can already put the puck in the net to get into better areas. I dont' think it's as simple as the Flames just need established goal scorers, becuase they have a few that arn't at the level you would ideally want them to be.

 

Leafs still make for a great trading partner as they are deep in RS wingers that the Flames lack. I'd be willing to discuss a few of them, in this order:

Marner - but like I said I think he's untouchable. 

Nylander - I'd be willing to discuss Hamilton but Leafs would have to add. 

Kapanen - 

Hyman

Brown

 

Flames would do well to land any of those 4. Obviously depending on the target the compensation would change. I'm not giving up Hamilton unless it's for Marner/Nylander (and like I said Leafs should add if its Nylander) but I do wonder if Brodie/Hamonic gets a conversation going for the rest of them. I don't want to give up Andersson either. 

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Listening to Peters on tim&sid I was disappointed to find that Brouwer was in Hawaii sipping mi ties  after such an abysmal season. I guess that is why he played so crappy didn't want to go into playoffs and not be able to enjoy his new found riches. That is one player I know GG tried on almost every line with no luck at first in the preseason him and Bennett had some chemistry but that failed miserably when the season started. I guess he knew then he didn't want to go into the playoffs LOL. 

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3 hours ago, cross16 said:

Marner would be the dream get for me but he'll be off limits. He was the Leafs best player in the playoffs and I think poised to break out as a top line threat. I don't see a scenario where they trade Marner even if the Flames were willing to talk Hamilton. 

 

I also don't think it's a case of the Flames deciding between playmaker vs sniper either. Yes the Flames struggled to score goals, but they also struggled to get the puck into real high quality scoring areas and I thikn are one of the lowest rank teams in terms of passes into the slot area. I think a player like Marner would help their offence by allowing guys that can already put the puck in the net to get into better areas. I dont' think it's as simple as the Flames just need established goal scorers, becuase they have a few that arn't at the level you would ideally want them to be.

 

Leafs still make for a great trading partner as they are deep in RS wingers that the Flames lack. I'd be willing to discuss a few of them, in this order:

Marner - but like I said I think he's untouchable. 

Nylander - I'd be willing to discuss Hamilton but Leafs would have to add. 

Kapanen - 

Hyman

Brown

 

Flames would do well to land any of those 4. Obviously depending on the target the compensation would change. I'm not giving up Hamilton unless it's for Marner/Nylander (and like I said Leafs should add if its Nylander) but I do wonder if Brodie/Hamonic gets a conversation going for the rest of them. I don't want to give up Andersson either. 

Let's do Nylander and Kapanen for Hamilton and Mangiapane.

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