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Realistic Trade suggestions for improvement

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1 hour ago, Sobieit said:

Buffalo looks bad again. 0 shots in the third period yesterday.  Sitting last in their division. Remember because of the shortened season we are now a quarter of the way through, so I wouldn't say "its still early", so how long before they start to sell?

 

I think we have the assets.

Eichel For Monahan, Ryan, 2022 1st, 2nd 2023, (Pettersen, Ruzicka, Philips, Zav)

For obvious reasons. We would have IMO the best center depth in the North.

Gaudreau Eichel Bennett

Tkatchuk Lindholm Mang

Lucic Backlund Dube

OR

Olofsson For Bennett, 3rd 2023, (Pettersen, Ruzicka, Philips, Zav)

Get that RW for Monahan and Gaudreau.

Gaudreau Monahan Olofsson

Tkatchuk Lindholm Mang

Lucic Backlund Dube

 

Just fun to see. Does this make the team better.... I donno.

 

That's not enough for Eichel.  I mean, Monahan + Hanifin wasn't enough for PLD, so we going to have to pay up even more than that.  Monahan + Hanifin + 1st is almost a starting point.  Perhaps, it has to be Monahan + Valimaki + 1st... But to make salary room for us, they have to also take Ryan.

 

If Bennett wants to leave, then I wonder if Bennett could also be included in the package.  That's an awful lot of Centers for us to trade away but worth it for a #1 Center.

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47 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

That's not enough for Eichel.  I mean, Monahan + Hanifin wasn't enough for PLD, so we going to have to pay up even more than that.  Monahan + Hanifin + 1st is almost a starting point.  Perhaps, it has to be Monahan + Valimaki + 1st... But to make salary room for us, they have to also take Ryan.

 

If Bennett wants to leave, then I wonder if Bennett could also be included in the package.  That's an awful lot of Centers for us to trade away but worth it for a #1 Center.

How do we know Monahan + Hanifin was not enough? 

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Backlund has showed time and again that he is a piece that you do not move.  He was uselss on the wing last year and was rejuvenated when moved back to center.   If you are going to make a move then Lindholm back to RW with put Backland with Mange and Tkchuk. 

 

with the time some of the 4th line is playing you might aswell go with an extra D.  Just spot Nordstrom and Levio with PK duties

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11 minutes ago, Sobieit said:

How do we know Monahan + Hanifin was not enough? 

 

Because it was bettered by Laine + Roslovic.

 

I'm okay trading Valimaki if we get back a player of Eichel's calibre.  Valimaki is good but from what we can tell right now, he's not Miro Heiskanen good.

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1 hour ago, The_People1 said:

 

What's holding us back more is not giving Gaudreau-Monahan a legit RW.  Bennett looked okay but he's much better Centering Lucic and Dube.  Ward should keep those 3 together permanently (assuming Bennett still wants to be here).  This means Backlund should be traded for a RW or he moves to RW with Gaudreau-Monahan.

 

See and I don't agree. IMO what is holding the Flames back is their transition and neutral zone game which is part coaching/structure and part the fact that they are really lacking in play driving/transition centers so it limits their options with their breakouts. 

 

I'm not saying don't trade for a RW, I'm all for the right trade but to say it's a cure all I don't' agree with because it won't address what I think is (and has been for a year now) the main issues with this team. They are able to score and play well when the puck is in the zone, it's getting there that is a big problem lately. 

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9 minutes ago, cross16 said:

 

See and I don't agree. IMO what is holding the Flames back is their transition and neutral zone game which is part coaching/structure and part the fact that they are really lacking in play driving/transition centers so it limits their options with their breakouts. 

 

I'm not saying don't trade for a RW, I'm all for the right trade but to say it's a cure all I don't' agree with because it won't address what I think is (and has been for a year now) the main issues with this team. They are able to score and play well when the puck is in the zone, it's getting there that is a big problem lately. 

 

Backlund is not even deployed as top 6 right now so he's not going to help the top 2 lines in the transition game.  He's a valuable trade piece and sitting on cap space that can be used to bring back a RW.  Someone like Stepan can help our neutral zone game and help Gaudreau convert on scoring chances.  Plus, Stepan is highly likely to be available if not outright on the trading block.

 

Moreover, Lucic - Bennett - Dube is a solution to the 3rd line the rest of this season.  Backlund's spot on the roster as a 3rd line C becomes redundant.

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Because of the salary cap, Buffalo and Calgary consummating a trade for Eichel would require that dollars in and dollars out be virtually identical. I'm not saying this trade makes sense, but here's what I came up with:

 

Eichel + Oloffson ($13,050,000 combined)

for

Mony + Johnny ($13,125,000 combined) + 2021 1st rounder + (Pettersen, Ruzicka, Philips, Zav, Kylington, and/or Michael Stone) 

 

Yes, I'd still trade both Mony and Johnny for Eichel. And Johnny is so hot right now. 

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22 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

Backlund is not even deployed as top 6 right now so he's not going to help the top 2 lines in the transition game.  He's a valuable trade piece and sitting on cap space that can be used to bring back a RW.  Someone like Stepan can help our neutral zone game and help Gaudreau convert on scoring chances.  Plus, Stepan is highly likely to be available if not outright on the trading block.

 

Moreover, Lucic - Bennett - Dube is a solution to the 3rd line the rest of this season.  Backlund's spot on the roster as a 3rd line C becomes redundant.

 

You have a much higher opinion of Derek Stepan than I do. He was awful in Arizona and was starting to trend negatively even before his trade there. if you are trying to use him to fix the top 6 i think you are aiming in the wrong place, he isn't very good nor is he an effective transition player. Honestly trading for him would be a joke. If you are that determined to get rid of Backlund expose him in the expansion draft and let Seattle have him and at least that way you don't lose Backlund plus another asset for nothing, you just lose Backlund for nothing. 

 

I'll exit this conversation as it's clear people have their own views on Backlund and don't want to hear the arguments on how effective he is. All i will say is if your plan is to use Bennett as a center on the 3rd line and use Backlund in trade you better have a good plan for how your going to keep this all together post expansion draft and better have a good plan for how you manage your centers moving forward because it already isn't good enough nd tht's with a very effective player in Backlund. 

 

I think the Flames center depth is not well understood by most here. 

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Lucic-Bennett-Dube play well together, but they can't be used in a shut down role, swap Bennett for Backlund and you have a shut down line. Right now the Lindholm and Backlund lines are getting the toughest assignments. If you trade Backlund now you are giving those tougher assignments to the Monahan line.

 

3rd line center is more important than a 2nd line winger. I would rather have strength and depth down the middle, then on the wings. Trading Backlund for a winger, unless you are getting a top 10 scorer, would be a huge mistake.

 

Stepan wants to be closer to home, so I doubt that coming to Calgary addresses that. Ottawa doesn't want to trade him, they are looking to accommodate a move so he can be closer to his family.

 

 

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26 minutes ago, JTech780 said:

Lucic-Bennett-Dube play well together, but they can't be used in a shut down role, swap Bennett for Backlund and you have a shut down line. Right now the Lindholm and Backlund lines are getting the toughest assignments. If you trade Backlund now you are giving those tougher assignments to the Monahan line.

 

3rd line center is more important than a 2nd line winger. I would rather have strength and depth down the middle, then on the wings. Trading Backlund for a winger, unless you are getting a top 10 scorer, would be a huge mistake.

 

Stepan wants to be closer to home, so I doubt that coming to Calgary addresses that. Ottawa doesn't want to trade him, they are looking to accommodate a move so he can be closer to his family.

 

Ok.  Not Stepan then.  Anyone else available on RW?

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29 minutes ago, cross16 said:

 

You have a much higher opinion of Derek Stepan than I do. He was awful in Arizona and was starting to trend negatively even before his trade there. if you are trying to use him to fix the top 6 i think you are aiming in the wrong place, he isn't very good nor is he an effective transition player. Honestly trading for him would be a joke. If you are that determined to get rid of Backlund expose him in the expansion draft and let Seattle have him and at least that way you don't lose Backlund plus another asset for nothing, you just lose Backlund for nothing. 

 

I'll exit this conversation as it's clear people have their own views on Backlund and don't want to hear the arguments on how effective he is. All i will say is if your plan is to use Bennett as a center on the 3rd line and use Backlund in trade you better have a good plan for how your going to keep this all together post expansion draft and better have a good plan for how you manage your centers moving forward because it already isn't good enough nd tht's with a very effective player in Backlund. 

 

I think the Flames center depth is not well understood by most here. 

 

I think we both agree on Backlund.  If the return was right, then we would both pull the trigger.  Not Stepan then.  Someone else.

 

In terms of next season, we might lose Backlund to the expansion draft and so we would have to address his loss anyways.  So we still facing the same problem.  But good thing is, that's what off-seasons are for.

 

Looking at Giordano's decline due to age, Backlund is himself aging out of prime and we have to accept this fact.  Trade him now while he's still valuable or get left holding bags in the final two years of his current deal.

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37 minutes ago, lou44291 said:

Because of the salary cap, Buffalo and Calgary consummating a trade for Eichel would require that dollars in and dollars out be virtually identical. I'm not saying this trade makes sense, but here's what I came up with:

 

Eichel + Oloffson ($13,050,000 combined)

for

Mony + Johnny ($13,125,000 combined) + 2021 1st rounder + (Pettersen, Ruzicka, Philips, Zav, Kylington, and/or Michael Stone) 

 

Yes, I'd still trade both Mony and Johnny for Eichel. And Johnny is so hot right now. 

 

I think BUF would be all over Gaudreau + Monahan for Eichel. BUF is simply not getting anywhere again.  And Johnny is on fire.

 

I'm not interested in Olofsson.  His stats are inflated by Eichel.

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8 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

I think BUF would be all over Gaudreau + Monahan for Eichel. BUF is simply not getting anywhere again.  And Johnny is on fire.

 

I'm not interested in Olofsson.  His stats are inflated by Eichel.

Olofsson only because the money has to work. Too bad he isn't a righty. But he is swedish! :)

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3 hours ago, The_People1 said:

 

What's holding us back more is not giving Gaudreau-Monahan a legit RW.  Bennett looked okay but he's much better Centering Lucic and Dube.  Ward should keep those 3 together permanently (assuming Bennett still wants to be here).  This means Backlund should be traded for a RW or he moves to RW with Gaudreau-Monahan.

 

I would actually play it this way:

 

Tkachuk, Backlund, Lindholm

Gaudreau, Monahan, Mangiapane

Lucic, Bennett, Dube

 

 

I honestly don't think we really needed to add Leivo, Simon or Nordstrom. We should have used the 4th for some of the older kids. Or use the new signings on the 4th. Although, I was worried about how Monahan and Gaudreau would do prior to the year. I have a feeling Monahan might be playing through something right now. He usually only slumps when he is injured. 

 

edited in: 

 

Or

 

Gaudreau, Monahan, Mangiapane
Tkachuk, Bennett, Dube

Lucic, Backlund, Lindholm

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3 hours ago, The_People1 said:

 

That's not enough for Eichel.  I mean, Monahan + Hanifin wasn't enough for PLD, so we going to have to pay up even more than that.  Monahan + Hanifin + 1st is almost a starting point.  Perhaps, it has to be Monahan + Valimaki + 1st... But to make salary room for us, they have to also take Ryan.

 

If Bennett wants to leave, then I wonder if Bennett could also be included in the package.  That's an awful lot of Centers for us to trade away but worth it for a #1 Center.

It’s not that Monahan and Hanifin were not enough for PLD, it’s just not what CBL wanted...particularly Hanifin, they are definitely working on their FWD lines is all

 

and as for Eichel...Monahan and 1st ok sure...Bennett or Hanifin too? Well it’s a bit steep but ok...but the second you add Valimaki it’s an overpay even for Eichel...now if we are talking macdavid, McKinnon or Mathews ok add Valimaki...I just haven’t seen Eichel as being in the same class as those three...but yes definitely above Monahan, 

 

I see it this way:

 

monahan= star level player

Eichel= superstar player

Mackinnon/MacDavid/Mathews= generational players  

 

so Monahan + a first or equivalent is fair for Eichel any more is too much...unless of course your looking to trade away Gaudreau and others including Backlund and Gio etc...and rebuild around Tachuck, Eichel, Valimaki, Anderson etc...well then ok over pay...maybe you could grab Rineheart and  Eichel for Monahan+1st and Gaudreau? 
 

that may actually be a good idea...

 

Tachuck/Eichel/Rineheart 

Manji / Lindholm/?????

Dube/Bennett/????

????/????/????

 

Valimaki/Anderson

Hanifin/Tanev 

?????/????


 

im sure trading Backlund, Gio and the others others not listed in the lineup could fill the ????

 

Mmm that lineup above is really not much worse than what we are icing now even if we were to fill the holes with some rookies and AHL guys lol 

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2 hours ago, The_People1 said:

 

I think we both agree on Backlund.  If the return was right, then we would both pull the trigger.  Not Stepan then.  Someone else.

 

In terms of next season, we might lose Backlund to the expansion draft and so we would have to address his loss anyways.  So we still facing the same problem.  But good thing is, that's what off-seasons are for.

 

Looking at Giordano's decline due to age, Backlund is himself aging out of prime and we have to accept this fact.  Trade him now while he's still valuable or get left holding bags in the final two years of his current deal.

 

Not really. Right now your auto protects are Johnny, Mony, Elias, Tkachuk, Mang, Dube and it leaves you deciding between Backs and Bennett. Pretty short conversation there so no I don't agree they are facing the same problem. 

 

I'm fine recognizing the aging curve. My point all along on Backlund is he is your best all around center on a team that doesn't have great centers to being with, and really doesn't have depth coming. So if you deal him how do you deal him and get better or stay as good in the short term? 

 

I'm just less optimistic than some you can do that it appears. Mostly because I don't find value in weakening center to strengthen the wings. 

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2 hours ago, cross16 said:

 

Not really. Right now your auto protects are Johnny, Mony, Elias, Tkachuk, Mang, Dube and it leaves you deciding between Backs and Bennett. Pretty short conversation there so no I don't agree they are facing the same problem. 

 

I'm fine recognizing the aging curve. My point all along on Backlund is he is your best all around center on a team that doesn't have great centers to being with, and really doesn't have depth coming. So if you deal him how do you deal him and get better or stay as good in the short term? 

 

I'm just less optimistic than some you can do that it appears. Mostly because I don't find value in weakening center to strengthen the wings. 

This is why Bennett should have been with Tachuck a few years ago...

 

sorry but Backlund is declining it’s time for him to go...

 

Mony is pretty close to all round as Backlund, the only difference is Backlund is more of a shut down possession Ctr Mony is more of a scoring Ctr...tit for tat trade off except Mony is a few year younger...and Bennett is too...but the only question is how bad has Cgy stunted Bennett’s development, can he get back in track and if so can Cgy do it?

 

Backlund is and honestly always has been a solid 3rd line Ctr just here in Cgy we had very little at Ctr...

 

at the end of the day Cgy needs to make some decisions and Backlund and Bennett are both in need of review...personally I love Bennett but can’t seem To shake the idea that he’s never gonna hit his potential here giving the piss poor handling of him so I’d be inclined to say both Bennett and Backs should be moved for a RW soon and then look at Gio and others in the off season...not just rounding out the 3rd D pair but also another 2nd line RW and a few 1/2 decent Ctrs...still wish they would try 7-10 games with:

 

gaudreau/Monahan/Lindholm 

tachuck/Bennet/Dube

manji/Backlund/Simon or Levino 

luchic/ Ryan(when healed or whoever)/Simon or Levino 

 

I just can’t help shake the feeling Bennett and Tachuck will prove to be stellar together if given some Time together 

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3 hours ago, cross16 said:

 

Not really. Right now your auto protects are Johnny, Mony, Elias, Tkachuk, Mang, Dube and it leaves you deciding between Backs and Bennett. Pretty short conversation there so no I don't agree they are facing the same problem. 

 

I'm fine recognizing the aging curve. My point all along on Backlund is he is your best all around center on a team that doesn't have great centers to being with, and really doesn't have depth coming. So if you deal him how do you deal him and get better or stay as good in the short term? 

 

I'm just less optimistic than some you can do that it appears. Mostly because I don't find value in weakening center to strengthen the wings. 

 

Depends if Lucic is a mandatory protection or not.  We don't know until that moment comes.

 

But without looking ahead too far, just focusing on this season, we arguably don't have a Cup contending team.  Just being honest even though I wish we can win.  It doesn't look like this group is going to get it done.

 

With it without Backlund, it doesn't even matter at the end of the day.

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4 hours ago, MP5029 said:

It’s not that Monahan and Hanifin were not enough for PLD, it’s just not what CBL wanted...particularly Hanifin, they are definitely working on their FWD lines is all

 

Possible.  Maybe CBJ just didn't want a Center back and/or didn't want a LD.  Maybe Roslovic was the key piece in the deal.  Who knows I guess.

 

But it's not overpayment to trade Monahan + Hanifin for Eichel.  Eichel > PLD by a lot.

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4 hours ago, cross16 said:

 

Not really. Right now your auto protects are Johnny, Mony, Elias, Tkachuk, Mang, Dube and it leaves you deciding between Backs and Bennett. Pretty short conversation there so no I don't agree they are facing the same problem. 

 

I'm fine recognizing the aging curve. My point all along on Backlund is he is your best all around center on a team that doesn't have great centers to being with, and really doesn't have depth coming. So if you deal him how do you deal him and get better or stay as good in the short term? 

 

I'm just less optimistic than some you can do that it appears. Mostly because I don't find value in weakening center to strengthen the wings. 

I agree with your list of top 7 forwards to protect. Bennett needs to show a lot more in the games remaining for BT to even consider protecting him.

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1 hour ago, The_People1 said:

 

Possible.  Maybe CBJ just didn't want a Center back and/or didn't want a LD.  Maybe Roslovic was the key piece in the deal.  Who knows I guess.

 

But it's not overpayment to trade Monahan + Hanifin for Eichel.  Eichel > PLD by a lot.

It was kinda best possible scenario. Ros wanted to play higher in the line up and as a bonus he gets to do it close to home. PLD wanted to come to Winnipeg, his dad is here and he spent a few weeks here last summer, he wanted to be somewhere where hockey meant something. As for Laine, he just wants to be the goal scorer and pad his stats for the upcoming contract talks.  Seeing how it seemed like a perfect swap for everyone, in hindsight I dont think the Flames had much of a chance for PLD.

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9 hours ago, The_People1 said:

 

Possible.  Maybe CBJ just didn't want a Center back and/or didn't want a LD.  Maybe Roslovic was the key piece in the deal.  Who knows I guess.

 

But it's not overpayment to trade Monahan + Hanifin for Eichel.  Eichel > PLD by a lot.


 no I agree Hanifin + Monahan would be fine...as for the PLD trade I believe Roslovic was a key piece I think they really wanted him from what others have been saying 

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18 hours ago, The_People1 said:

 

Ok.  Not Stepan then.  Anyone else available on RW?

I wonder if we could make a trade with NYR for Gauthier? I know he’s not scoring the way they want, they also are loaded in the top 9 which limits his role. He is a big RH RW, that has scoring potential, something we lack dearly. 
Then the lines could be:

1. Johnny-Money-Lindholm

2a. Tkachuk-Benny-Dube...or...

2b. Tkachuk-Backs-Mang

3a. Mang-Backs-Gauthier...or...

3b. Dube-Benny-Gauthier

Couple things this helps with, Gauthier is exempt, so you don’t have to worry about muddying the expansion draft. It moves Lucic down to the fourth which makes us a lot deeper, it also may make him waive his NMC to go to Seattle knowing he is getting limited ice time on the 4th line. 

 

Other RWs I have been pondering in a trade are Mantha (might need a change of scenery) Boeser (who I think has a connection to Markstrom, evident talking to him in the crease the past couple of games, probably asking for Marky to put in a good word for him, lol). But both cost us a first, probably Bennett, and a defensive prospect. Not sure if I want to make those trades right now though.

 

 

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If we want Eichel the trade probably starts with either Tkachuk or Lindholm, and then goes from there. I don't think Monahan or Gaudreau as the main piece gets it done. We would have to add one of Hanifin, Andersson or Valimaki. Then add a top prospect like Pelletier, Wolf or Zary. 

 

I think that it probably where you start for an Eichel trade.

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Going into the deadline the guy that makes the most sense to me is Bobby Ryan. He is making $1m, he is having a pretty good season in Detroit. RHS RW, who still has enough skill to produce in the right situation. Has a history of showing up in the playoffs. Probably won't cost much.

 

To me that is the kind of move we will see this season.

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